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help me pick a cushion

FYI I believe...

James Allen:
Free Shipping
60-day return policy. Free return shipping, no restocking fee.
70% buyback on diamonds within first 2 years.


Good Old Gold:
Free Shipping
30-day return policy. Clock starts ticking from when you receive the stone.
Did not mention a restocking fee but their return policies are not as clearly posted as other sites'
75% buyback on diamonds which are specified as coming with a lifetime guarantee (not sure if this is all the diamonds they sell)

Engagement Rings Direct:
Free Shipping
30-day return policy. Clock starts ticking when you put a deposit on a stone.
$250.00 restocking fee. "Free" return shipping
65% buyback on diamonds (lifetime)

Brian Gavin Diamonds:
Free Shipping
15-day return policy. Clock starts ticking when you receive your stone.
Customer pays for return shipping and insurance, and original shipping charges are deducted from refund.
70% buyback on BG Signature H+A and BG Blue stones only, and only within the first year.
 
MattEffinCameron|1383862817|3552359 said:
these might be new?

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.938-e-si2-cushion-diamond-ags-104066027028

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.952-i-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104065157002
Click to expand...


I didn't see them when I was looking a couple days ago, so I think you are right. They are new. And in budget! They are both around 5.5 square. And I know you like the hearts and arrows look. Those are two strong contenders!

I'd ask if the E is A) eyeclean and B) has any feathers that break the surface or any other inclusions that might pose a threat to safety. If not and it is eyeclean, I'd put the E on hold.
 
Gypsy|1383867064|3552379 said:
I'd ask if the E is A) eyeclean and B) has any feathers that break the surface or any other inclusions that might pose a threat to safety. If not and it is eyeclean, I'd put the E on hold.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It looks beautiful!
 
LLJsmom|1383831266|3552126 said:
OMG. Best advice ever. This needs to go in a reference thread if it isn't here already. Thanks Gypsy!! OP, sorry for the thread jack! But no kidding this is invaluable advice.
Click to expand...


Just saw this. Thank you LLJsmom! ::) We used to have a helpful threads archive, but its not a sticky anymore. I appreciate the call out.
 
so gypsy, earlier you said "Also, you need to know how to view stones in person. You can't just look at them under jewelers lights. But... more on that later."

Care to elaborate? :)


About the BG stone, I had chatted with them about it before I posted it here. I asked about the two of them...how included the E was and how white the I was...her response after "talking about it with the girls":
We all chose the E. It's eye clean and super white. The I is white also but not as white as the E.

I just sent in your other suggested question about the feathering to them so we will see where that goes. I do like the H+A pattern but if the JA stone checks out that could still be a contender too. It looks really nice and is bigger for quite a bit less. I might wind up needing to buy both to compare in person....if I go with the JA I will have to pay for the BG shipping and insurance (wonder how much that is) plus the 35 bucks for the money wire....if I go with the BG I would just be out the 35 for the JA money wire.
 
MattEffinCameron|1383884122|3552586 said:
so gypsy, earlier you said "Also, you need to know how to view stones in person. You can't just look at them under jewelers lights. But... more on that later."

Care to elaborate? :)
Click to expand...

Basically, jewelry stores spend thousands of dollars on their lighting. It is one of the most important factors and is also the reason pretty much every diamond will look great in the store. They factor in ceiling height, intensity, direction, etc. to produce the optimal conditions for viewing diamonds. They usually go with a warmer ambient light and a bright, white, LED light for the display cases. This naturally draws customers to the displays and also provides better viewing conditions. The type of lighting that you see in a jewelry store very rarely exists in every day situations, and is therefore largely irrelevant when gauging a diamond's fire/brilliance. Check out some videos of diamonds in different lighting conditions and you will see what a huge difference it makes.
 
Smilligan explains the problem very well. I would only add that some jewelers lights have a weird effect from my observation. Depending on the actual lighting (especially at jewelers where there are no windows, only artificial lights) the jewelers lights can sometimes wash out all color from the diamonds. So a J looks as white as an F. And others light can have the effect of making higher colors look... well, bad because some jewelers lights can favor warmer colored stones.

SO what is the solution for the jewelers lights problem?

1. Natural light. If there are GOOD windows (not tinted) in the store take all the stones over to the window. Get the jeweler to lock each stone in a stone holder and see it away from any fabric (black, beige, white velvet fabric are commonly used by jewelers to rest jewelry on). If there are no good windows: ask them if they will walk the stones outside with you (many jewelers have security and all you have to do is leave your wallet there and they will be okay with you going outside with the guard or with a sales associate... I have done this a number of times at different stores around the country).

1a. While you are out there make sure you view it in direct light. But just as important: see it in shade (you can hold your hand over the stone 10 inches or so away, putting shade over the stone, you don't need anything fancy for the shade) as much of the time our diamonds are viewed in indirect natural light.

2. Hand lotion. When a stone is worn it gets a exposure to a lot of natural oils. Simply put, unless you are an obsessive Pricescoper who cleans their diamonds every day (sometimes a few times a day even), you stone will be dirty most of the time. A large part of the difference between a well cut stone with great light return and an inferior cut with average or poor light return is the fact that when dirty the well cut stone will still shine. Whereas the poorly cut one won't. So... either take hand lotion with you or apply some before you go in to the jeweler. THEN make sure you brush your finger along the top of the diamonds. So that they are not squeaky clean anymore. And you can see how they perform then. If the jeweler starts to polish the stone while you are still comparing them just politely tell them to stop and that you prefer to see the stone when it is less than perfect.

3. Other artificial light. The jewelers lights are focused over the displays. So sometimes one of the best places to view the diamonds is in the darker/less lit areas of the jewelry store. Indirect light again. Just walk the things around the store.
 
I actually think slightly rectangular is nice, but I like the symmetry/perceived perfection of a H+A cushion and those are square so I could go either way. I had looked at GOG...I was a little less comfortable with their return policy as I didnt feel it was posted or advertised quite as clearly online as the other vendors and when I called in the person on the phone didnt seem super confident (or maybe she just wasnt very clear) in her answers to my questions about returns. Returns is a notable factor as I think I am going to order multiple stones and obviously at least 50% (if I only order 2) of them will be going back.

I have enjoyed all of the education GOG's videos have provided me with and I get the sense they would make me a video comparing stones if I wanted (which is a great thing to offer) but I think when I looked at their site I got distracted/drawn in by the H+A cushions which were out of my price range. Feel free to link me to a modern cushion on their site which you think is similar to or better than the "finalists" I am looking at (below)....

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.938-e-si2-cushion-diamond-ags-104066027028#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/0/

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.04-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-257263

I am going to request my gemologist inspection and ASET imagery of the JA stone today so I am looking for 2 others from their site for comparison to take full advantage of the 3 that I get. Let me know if anyone has any other suggestions there. If there is a really clean looking stone outside of my price range maybe that would be a good one to have them inspect and provide an ASET for in addition to the one real option rather than putting the one real option up against a couple tomato cans....

Also, I heard back about the BGD H+A...the diamond is eye clean and none of the inclusions break the surface. They said they do not cut or own any diamonds that have inclusions that are a detriment to integrity.
 
3 for JA:
1. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.04-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-257263
2. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.02-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-26081

There's no clear "must have an ASET on this stone" for third place. But these are the ones that may be worth a bit of extra time. So pick your favorite as the third choice.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.99-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-217770 Has what could be a little bowtie but has nice spread, is bright and has great color.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.23-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-258461 Also has what could be a slight bowtie, but it is an antique style that does NOT have a maltese cross, so that might be a nice 'change' from all the modern cushions.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.90-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-179058 Also a nice antique style. Has a little bit of a maltese cross but I'm not finding it distracting but it is only 90 points though.

ETA:
Honestly, I'm not married to number 2 either. Although it has a fabulous price color and clarity, plus it looks really bright, the spread is underwhelming (hence the price)... so if you liked two of the above, replace the 1.02 F with one of the others.
 
The problem with ERD is their $250 restocking fee...thats a big hit if I choose a diff stone. I think the ~80 dollar hit (~55-60 deducted from refund for original shipping cost + ~20 bucks for return shipping) with BGD is enough since I lose an additoinal 35 bucks with each stone I return in the form of the wire xfer fee.

If I get a JA, a BGD, and the ERD and keep the JA, I spent an extra $400 bucks just to see those stones in person...seems like money better spent elsewhere, like on the setting whose price tag is increasing with the outside stone :)
 
Very good point.

There is an easy solution. Call Mark at ERD and ask them if they would waive the restocking fee for you, if you bought it to evaluate it. Explain that you like the stone, but the other jewelers you are also buying stones from do not have a restocking fee, and that the fee is keeping you from considering their stones. If he says yes to waiving it, ask him to send you an email that states that.

ERD is very flexible. That's what I'd do.
 
So i guess this week we will find out whats what. I shoudl get the ASETs and gemologist inspections back on my JA stones, I have to make a decision on the BGD H+A I have on hold and maybe I will order up the ERD stone you linked to above if they will waive the restock. Also supposed to find out (tomorrow) what the guy is going to charge me for the setting with an outside stone, and get a look at the design (or the first iteration of it).

Can someone explain to me the different between an 8 main and a 4 main modern cut? Is an 8 main like a rough version of a H+A (since there are 8 As in an H+A)? I see the ERD stone is referenced as an X-Factor...is that different from any other main?

Also do you all have any opinions on the types of stone in the setting I have picked out?

http://antiqueengagementrings.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=4806

Is a modern/different cut like the H+A going to look great in there or am I making a mistake by having ruled out vintages? I like the modern/H+A stones on their own but I want to make sure they will work well with the setting. Interested in your opinions...
 
I think pick the G if you want something square, and the F if you want something off square.
 
Difference is the faceting. Look at the faceting plot on a 4 main lab report, then look at the same on an 8 main. That's the difference.

As for which AVC, I'd go for the F.

Oh. And I like the setting you've chosen.
 
got ASET images for the JA stones...I have swung back around to considering vintage cuts more (just because I think they might look best in the setting) so for the third stone I went with the .9c chunky you had linked to...smaller but I liked the look and I think based on dimensions it faces up good.

So anyway, here are the ASET and gemologist inspections. ASETs look like junk to me (but maybe im not reading them right), but I suppose that of little surprise having seen this thread :) :
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/james-allen-admits-lousy-aset-machinery.195065/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/james-allen-admits-lousy-aset-machinery.195065/[/URL]







The 0.90 carat-G-VVS2 is a very lively option (and was her personal favorite). It has a very good amount of brilliance (white light return), fire (dispersion of color) and sparkle that is well balanced and symmetrical. It is a very beautiful, white color and faces up "eye clean". It is an antique style cushion that has larger facets, giving it broader flashes of light. Very beautiful option.

The 1.02 carat-F-VS1 is also a very lively diamond. It has a very good amount of brilliance, fire and sparkle that is well balanced and symmetrical. It is a bright, icy white color and also faces up completely "eye clean". There is no negative effect from the fluorescence either (there is no haziness).

The 1.04 carat-H-VVS2 is a very beautiful option; however, it does have the weakest performance of the three. The brilliance, fire and sparkle are very good; however, it is very slightly asymmetrical. It is a nice white color and just like the other two, faces up completely "eye clean".

So I am going to the store Monday to look at the design they have come up with and see what he was able to get in for stones, and then Tues morning will order my online stones (assuming I still plan on going online).

Here is my comparison list at the moment..(finalists I guess) LxW is a face up estimator...
L W LxW D $$$$
5.5 5.5 30.25 4.01 $5,514.00 E SI2 0.938 - H+A
5.74 5.8 33.292 3.95 $4,880.00 H VVS2 1.04 - JA
5.83 5.44 31.7152 3.77 $4,571.00 G VVS2 0.9 - JA "chunky"
5.51 5.99 33.0049 3.78 $5,442.00 F SI1 0.95 - GOG - AVC

I am now considering not even buying the H+A...it is the most expensive, faces up the smallest (according to my LxW estimate) and although I like the idea of it being the most "brilliant" or having the most fire, im not sure how I feel about the look of a perfectly square stone with flat sides...its really a little more of a princess look (albeit with rounded corners). I dont know if thats going to look as good in the vintage setting as a cushion (or even a round) would.

If I dont order the H+A it saves me 35 in the wire xfer fee and ~65 bucks I think for shipping costs...so like 100 altogether. I will probably order both from JA since all I am risking is a single xfer fee. Probably order the GOG to check out....and might be leaning that direction.

Its just not very comforting knowing what a long term decision this is and realizing that I have done a complete 180 on stone selection in like a week. Thats nothing new though, I have always been terribly indecisive :)

26081.jpg

179058.jpg

257263.jpg
 
They're not "junk." Its just obviously not going to compare to a branded stone, you're trading cut for price. The ASETs are basically what is to be expected from the videos. As I said earlier, I think one of the vintage style from GOG is your best bet.
 
JA's ASET set up is... not as good as other vendors. That said, I am surprised by the ASETs of the stones. I wonder what the ASET would look like from another vendor with a better set up. I wonder how much of what we are seeing is the stone how much the ASET. Too bad. Hopefully they'll get that fixed soon. Because the ASETs don't match up with the gemologist's observations (not the first time unfortunately). They do have that great return policy though.

I think your setting lends itself to antique cuts.

Did you call ERD and ask them to waive that re-stocking fee for you? I really like that stone.
 
So my jeweler finally showed me a GIA cushion. Since I asked him for ASETs which he wasnt familiar with he has been asking "his guy" to give him firescope scintillation reports with the stones. I have yet to see a firescope anywhere that wasnt pegged all the way to the right in all 3 categories so im not sure if thats good for anything.

Anywho, with not a lot of ~1ct GIA cushions to pick from, and no vintage stones, I ordered up a couple that I had been looking at from James Allen.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.04-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-257263
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.90-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-179058

I am pretty excited about the second one. It has a chunky/vintage look to it, according to the gemologist review it was the most impressive of the three stones I had them look at, and despite being only .9ct it faces up (according to my math of LxW) 1.4% larger than the 1.01 carat stone they have for me in the store. Not that 1.4% is significant but whats important is it is not smaller looking than the 1ct.

In other interesting happenings, I took a picture of the little envelope the guy in the store had my stone in and it said GIA93244 on it....I googled that and found an online retailer offering up the same stone....for 900-1000 less.
https://www.jrjewelers.com/index.php/diamonds/product/diamond/id/271254

I assume this is pretty typical...online place lists stone they dont actually have in inventory, local jeweler is ordering from the same central repository, so local jeweler wound up with stone also available online...but I guess since with my own I buy on the internet he is charging me 600 more for the setting, it suddenly seems worth it to go that route rather than save 600 on the setting and spend 900-1000 more on the stone than I needed to :)

Also looked up the GIA report online for the stone and I mean, its a VS2, but the reference diagram looks like a hot mess with all the feathers and extra facets and stuff..
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=7143474233&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

Do you have any thoughts comparing these two stones? (GIA report for JA stone is below)

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=1146988638&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547
 
Give your local guy a chance to price match if you find the exact same stone listed for cheaper.
 
And so I have decided...on the old mine cut from JA. Of the three I had (one in-store, and two from JA)

257263 from JA was really nice. A modern brilliant it was cool to actually see the facet structure, it was very similar to a round brilliant we pulled out. Ultimately I ruled this one out because it was perfectly square (or looked it) and I thought a slightly off-square stone would be a better look with my setting.

The in-store stone was nice. In terms of sparkle/fire/scintillation it seemed to be right up there with the JA stone, and it was super white. I did not care for it though because I think it was SO white because you were seeing all sorts of facets and whatnot (crushed ice look). Like on the JA stone you could look at it and see that there was a pattern formed by all of the distinct facet lines...this one just looked like a hot mess.

Then there was 179058. On the downside, it was a little smaller looking than the other two (as it should be at only .9c) but I liked the character of the off-square dimensions and the arched sides not to mention the chunky facets...I think it will look great in the setting....its also $1,000 less than the similar AVC I was considering from GoG....if only I could get a GoG ASET of this stone to see how it compares performance-wise :)

Thanks for all of your help along the way guys! I should become a jeweler now so that all this education doesnt go to waste...
 
I'm so happy you've made a choice. I think that stone is a great choice especially for that setting.
 
I think that will look really great with your setting
 
YAY! Love the old mine cut for the setting you've designed. They will compliment each other wonderfully! I went from a "crushed ice" stone to a OMC and will never look back - you explained it perfectly when you said that the modern brilliant cushions just look like a "hot mess" sometimes :twirl: I am a OMC girl through and through now... your SO, soon to be FI, is going to LOVE this ring and the thought and dedication you've put into making sure you made the best decisions :bigsmile: :appl:
 
Had to follow up on this thread....thanks to everyone for all of your assistance!

http://www.nickmaccarthy.com/blog/she-said-yes-kate-and-chris-get-engaged-soldiers-and-sailors-memorial-hartford-ct/

I have been really impressed with the stone. I saw it online, it shipped to my office where I saw it on a piece of tissue paper under lame fluorescent lights, and then in the jewelry store under their intense everything-looks-amazing lighting but now that she has the ring, I have really noticed how great the sparkle is in "real world" situations. After the proposal we went out to dinner and the lighting in the restaurant was pretty subtle and the rock was blinging all over the place. I definitely love how unique it is too (being a vintage cut).

so thanks again for all your help!!
 
What awesome photos. Congratulations! Everything looks perfect.
 
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