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Help me narrow down a $20k diamond!

Which is the most beautiful? I love sparkle!

  • HPB 1.58 ct G VS1 (Option 1)

    Votes: 1 5.6%

  • HPB 1.59 ct G VS1 (Option 2)

    Votes: 2 11.1%

  • BGD 1.595 ct G VS1 Blue (Option 3)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • BGD 1.586 ct G VS2 (Option 4)

    Votes: 1 5.6%

  • WF 1.408 ct E VS1 (Option 5)

    Votes: 1 5.6%

  • WF 1.62 ct G VS1 (Option 6)

    Votes: 13 72.2%
  • Total voters
    18
cottoncandy

cottoncandy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2014
Messages
83
So I’ve narrowed down my search to 6 stones from HPD, WF, and BGD. The stats and images look pretty similar—I’d love some help differentiating and identifying unique things between them. How do I come to a final decision?
  • Round Brilliant
  • Budget — $20,000 USD
  • Carats — 1.3-1.8
  • Cut — Super ideal or equivalent (Cut is king, sparkle is everything!)
  • Color — G or better
  • Clarity — VS2 or better. Want to avoid black specks under the table. I have an issue with “mind clean”
In no particular order, here’s my top contenders from my search so far:

HPB 1.58 ct G VS1 (Option 1)
7.46 x 7.5 x 4.62
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10256

HPB 1.59 ct G VS1 (Option 2)
7.53 x 7.54 x 4.63 mm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9158

Between the two above , is one better than the other? The 1.58 magnified face up view looks much brighter than the other. Does that mean it’s brighter than the other one, or is it just the photo?

The 1.59 has a smaller face but is not as deep as the other one. Is this difference noticeable? I think I prefer diamonds with smaller tables because I want to avoid a diamond that looks flat (in terms of shape) on top.

HPB’s ASET images look washed out and show more white than WF’s or BGD’s. Does that mean there’s more light leakage?

BGD 1.595 ct G VS1 (Option 3)
7.49 x 7.52 x 4.63
signature blue, medium blue - I like fluorescence but it’s not a requirement.
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.595-g-vs1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104087126005

BGD 1.586 ct G VS2 (Option 4)
7.48 x 7.49 x 4.62
Black by Brian Gavin
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../1.586-g-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104100413028

Will the black spots visible under the table in either of the BGD stones be visible at 6 in distance with 20/20 vision? I’m prone to scrutinizing unfortunately.

WF 1.408 ct E VS1 (Option 5)
7.16 x 7.19 x 4.42 mm
A CUT ABOVE®
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4008479.htm

WF 1.62 ct G VS1 (Option 6)
7.54 x 7.60 x 4.68 mm
A CUT ABOVE®
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3965474.htm
(thanks for finding this one @sledge !)

These two also look beautiful to me but again I’m having trouble differentiating between all these options. Thanks!
 
I bet you would be happy with either one of the first 2 ! I didnt look at 3-6 though as both one and 2 looked good to me.
 
Can you see them
In person before deciding? That might help you to decide which to get!
 
I chose the 1.62ct because it has a nice small table, higher crown, VS1 clarity and it's the largest diamond.
 
Assuming they are all eye-clean to your satisfaction, I don't think you'd go wrong with any of those options - it's just personal taste that is the deciding factor :)

If you have the cash or the line of credit, you could order your two most preferred options and then choose the winner in the comfort of your own home. (Check costs and insurance arrangements involved in the Returns process if you do that.)
 
Truly, cream of the crop choices.

I love BGD. That is where I bought my stone. Cut is great and people are awesome. That said, between the 6 stones you listed, the other 4 are with vendors that have better upgrade programs.

Both WF and HPD only requires you spend $1 more and you get full credit of the original purchase towards your next stone.

BGD is more restrictive in the fact they require $1 more and that you upgrade 2 of the 3 following: color, carat or clarity. You are already buying fairly high color and clarity, so this may make it more difficult for you to achieve future upgrades at a comfortable rate to you.

Isn't the WF 1.62 G VS1 the one I went all ga-ga about the other night? You better buy it before I cut your legs out from underneath you. Or @Dancing Fire does. :lol:

Nah, I wouldn't really but I am seriously on the hunt for a higher color, small table stone. Not that size or budget though. Darn my luck. :cool2:
 
Hey @Wink, get your videos posted so we can see those CBI's in spinning action. There's a stack of cash involved and someone wanting to make it rain. :mrgreen2: :lol-2:

 
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:lol-2::o:lol-2::lol:
 
sledge said:
Hey @Wink, get your videos posted so we can see those CBI's in spinning action. There's a stack of cash involved and someone wanting to make it rain. :mrgreen2: :lol-2:

Click to expand...
LOL

That line back there? Yeah, they crossed it... :lol:

If you've not seen it, you should watch Little Miss Sunshine!
 
Largest one with the best upgrade policy.
 
If you have the credit, you could get one of the CBIs and that 1.62 WF ACA to compare side-by-side, to see if the CBI brings anything extra to your eyes?
 
I started with the video of option 6 and that's as far as I've gotten.

I've watched A LOT of WF video, especially in the month prior to purchasing a 1.5c F VVS2 this past April.

Option 6, now there's a flashy video. :sun: Only buy that one if you want the world to see you coming.

As soon as I drink some more coffee I'll begin looking at the other 5 options. It's not work, but it takes time. I do need to drive someone to the airport...
 
Johnbt said:
I started with the video of option 6 and that's as far as I've gotten.

I've watched A LOT of WF video, especially in the month prior to purchasing a 1.5c F VVS2 this past April.

Option 6, now there's a flashy video. :sun: Only buy that one if you want the world to see you coming.

As soon as I drink some more coffee I'll begin looking at the other 5 options. It's not work, but it takes time. I do need to drive someone to the airport...
Click to expand...

This made me chuckle. Yeah the video is awesome. I think most super ideals sparkle but that one is special.

The cool thing is they are all great choices. :cool2:
 
Ooh love that idea. Do you happen to know if the WF return process is easy? Is that a normal thing people do at Whiteflash (buy just to see)?

If I decide to go with one of them I’d still have to send them back...Mark Morrell insisted that he receive the stone straight from the vendor.

OoohShiny said:
If you have the credit, you could get one of the CBIs and that 1.62 WF ACA to compare side-by-side, to see if the CBI brings anything extra to your eyes?
Click to expand...
 
cottoncandy said:
Ooh love that idea. Do you happen to know if the WF return process is easy? Is that a normal thing people do at Whiteflash (buy just to see)?

If I decide to go with one of them I’d still have to send them back...Mark Morrell insisted that he receive the stone straight from the vendor.
Click to expand...

Honestly, WF makes everything easy. Very transparent and super customer focused. They have a 30 day return window. More details below.

https://www.whiteflash.com/confidence/money-back-guarantee/

I wouldn't say it's common to buy just so you can see, but I know it occurs. Especially when someone is really torn between stones at multiple vendors. The issue with getting stones at multiple places and having them shipped to you is many people cannot cash flow that sort of operation, or they may not have sufficient credit available.

Also, I generally think people try to do as much homework as possible BEFORE buying as I don't think people normally like to do returns if they can be avoided.

FYI, HPD has a "See It To Believe It" (SITBI) program that does exactly this -- let's your try the diamond in your home while they put a temporary hold on your card or ACH (wire). Again, it ties up your money so depending on your financial situation maybe you could do both HPD and WF at the same time. If resources allow, go crazy and get a BGD stone there too!

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonds/diamonds-home

Just make sure you play within the return rules. All really are great vendors and want you to be happy with a stone that meets all YOUR criteria and expectations.

FYI, whomever you decide to buy from I'd have them ship to you for inspection while the stone is loose. Since Mark won't accept deliveries from you, I'd tell them upfront the conditions and ask them to include an insured return form & pack so you can send back to them and then have said vendor ship directly to Mark.

It will be easy to arrange with any of these vendors.
 
As Sledge says, check out the vendors' Returns policies! It could be worth emailing to ask what the process is exactly, and what any costs would be - it might cost perhaps $100 (??) for insurance, but check to make sure! $100 is still a fair lump of cash but a small incremental cost on the price of a diamond to make sure you get something you love :)
 
I ordered the WF ACA 1.62! :geek2:

Thanks @OoohShiny @sledge for the nudge! I plan inspect it side-by-side with a CBI stone (need to decide which) in real life. When I receive the stones I will post high resolution videos and photos comparing the two so I can give back to the PS community...you’ve all been so helpful.

I’ve never seen a super ideal stone in person so I’m very excited! Later today I plan to find some Hearts on Fire vendors nearby to confirm G is colorless enough for me and to see if I can spot VS/SI inclusions at 6 inches with my 20/20 vision.

Help me choose a CBI to compare to ACA:

CBI 1.58 ct G VS1
7.46 x 7.5 x 4.62
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10256

CBI 1.59 ct G VS1
7.53 x 7.54 x 4.63 mm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9158

CBI 1.70 ct E SI1 — Really nervous about the twinning feathers (looks really scary on the AGS report) but HPD tells me it’s still eye clean
7.69 x 7.72 x 4.74 mm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9598
 
Just my 2 cents, I would do a 2-stage elimination. First round I'd limit the choices to the G VS1's. Once you decide on CBI or WF, I would then compare that winner against the CBI E SI1.

Out of the two G VS1's from CBI, I like the 1.59ct. While not an identical comparison, the 1.59 seems to have a table, CA & PA that is more similar to the WF 1.62 than the 1.58 CBI. Also I do like it's almost a perfect 1:1 length/width ratio.

With a winner in-place you can then more objectively decide if it's worth spending $3-4k more for a higher E color and lower SI1 clarity stone. I will say this, while you may struggle from the twinning whisps on the cert (I do too, from a "mind clean" stance) I also know that Wink has a strong reputation for being nothing but transparent and honest with his clients. If he says it's eye clean, than I trust that it's eye clean per HPD's definition:

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/whyus/whyus-faqdetail/60

But really a much more detailed set of information is here that is a very worthwhile read:

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/education/education-clarity

More so I will be interested to see how the winner compares against the 1.70 because while it has the smallest table of the CBI's, it also has a shallower CA while keeping a 40.8 PA. I know that HPD/CBI constantly states their stones exhibit the same fire, etc because they customize the cut to do so but it seems to me that might cause a "personality difference" you may or may not prefer against the first stage winner.

I am very much looking forward to seeing your comparison pics & videos. :cool2:
 
@sledge and @cflutist make some excellent points :) - a strictly fair comparison would mean angles/measurements as close as possible, and/or a budget that's identical!

That said... ;-) I prefer the 1.58 out of the two VS1 options because I love a clean Table! And I don't think 0.04mm 'out of round' would be noticeable - IIRC I've read diameter size differences start to get noticeable around 0.1mm.

The 1.70 would be great! but it does have a scary-looking plot, yes... lol. However, CBI plan rough to make inclusions as invisible as possible AIUI, and twinning wisps generally have minimal, if any, impact on light performance, if my understanding is correct.

I don't believe that @John Pollard would be able to comment on this or any specific stone, but he may be able to offer input on whether CBI reject any stones following assessment of twinning wisps' (or other inclusion) impacts!
 
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Agree with @OoohShiny about it not being necesaary for a stone to be perfect round. I chose the 1.59 for other reasons, the near 1:1 ratio was a mere bonus.

If you weren't looking at VS1 stones I would agree more on the inclusions on the table. I still prefer not to have them in that location but they should be very minor given the clarity grade.

Would love to hear @John Pollard dive further into inclusions and angles. Just be aware he works for CBI so he can only comment on technical items. He is very smart and I enjoy hearing his thoughts.
 
OoohShiny said:
I don't believe that @John Pollard would be able to comment on this or any specific stone, but he may be able to offer input on whether CBI reject any stones following assessment of twinning wisps' (or other inclusion) impacts!
Click to expand...
Twinning wisps are a boon or bane proposition. When benign, wisps are one of our team's favorite characteristics because they can be perfectly transparent. In those cases the drop to SI clarity becomes a big win for sellers and buyers. On the other side, malignant twinned crystals can present visibly and even create dangerous strain. That is a big-picture comment which will not be a problem with any seller discussed in this thread. Our Antwerp team only selects transparent wisps, and further uses cross-polarized filters to screen and reject any with signs of strain. Other respected sellers do these things fundamentally as well, for any diamond arriving on their property.

Your rejection question has a big picture answer too, @OoohShiny . In fact, for readers wondering how zillions of diamonds in virtual lists are priced lower than those usually recommended by experienced Pricescopers; see how thousands get reduced to a handful here.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/blog/blog-article/25/protection-by-selection.htm

sledge said:
Would love to hear @John Pollard dive further into inclusions and angles. Just be aware he works for CBI so he can only comment on technical items. He is very smart and I enjoy hearing his thoughts.
Click to expand...
Tip of the hat and right back at you @sledge . I hope the above inclusion information is useful. Regarding angles, I saw a request on the same topic in another thread and will return here and link to my response.

Cheers.
 
John Pollard said:
Twinning wisps are a boon or bane proposition. When benign, wisps are one of our team's favorite characteristics because they can be perfectly transparent. In those cases the drop to SI clarity becomes a big win for sellers and buyers. On the other side, malignant twinned crystals can present visibly and even create dangerous strain. That is a big-picture comment which will not be a problem with any seller discussed in this thread. Our Antwerp team only selects transparent wisps, and further uses cross-polarized filters to screen and reject any with signs of strain. Other respected sellers do these things fundamentally as well, for any diamond arriving on their property.

Your rejection question has a big picture answer too, @OoohShiny . In fact, for readers wondering how zillions of diamonds in virtual lists are priced lower than those usually recommended by experienced Pricescopers; see how thousands get reduced to a handful here.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/blog/blog-article/25/protection-by-selection.htm


Tip of the hat and right back at you @sledge . I hope the above inclusion information is useful. Regarding angles, I saw a request on the same topic in another thread and will return here and link to my response.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply, Sir John! :))

It is slightly crazy that only 2 rough crystals out of over 3600 meet the CBI grade - it must be extremely challenging as a 'boutique' cutter faced with the uphill struggle of buying suitable rough that meets your criteria while also being priced reasonably!

We thank you for your efforts :D
 
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