Help me lose my ''L'' plates?

[Steel]

Ok, I am thinking about taking my maiden voyage into the land of sapphires but am clueless.

I need help with: Deciding how to choose the best cut/colour.

Will you please point me to tutorials, give me some advice?

 

[Kismet]

Unlike diamonds, there''s no real right answer to that... whatever color you like is the best (assuming that this purchase is for your own enjoyment and you''re not trying to start a gem selling business). Admittedly, it''s not a very helpful answer, but true none the less. Assuming you want a blue sapphire, a medium toned blue is generally going to command the highest price so if your taste runs to lighter or darker then you''re in luck.

A good read is Richard Wise''s Ruby & Sapphire chapter of is book. That chapter can be found here. You do need to buy the book if you want to read the rest of it but it''s definitely worth it.

Look at the Sapphire offerings from the vendors in the sticky list above and see what colors you like and don''t like. Post some here that you like and we can critique them for you.

 

[T L]

Don't forget to buy from a very reputable dealer because of all the unscrupulous treatments out there on sapphires.

 

[Catmom]

The great thing about sapphires is that they come in a multitude of colors and shapes. Usually with gemstones color comes first and then cut unlike diamonds where cut is king. That''s what makes colored gems so intriguing. What color are you most drawn to? There is a sticky at the top which shows everyone''s gorgeous sapphires. It''s wonderful to look at and a great example of how many different blue color sapphires [plus pink and yellow] there are.

 

[Steel]

Thank you for your responses Kismet, tourmaline_lover & Catmom.

Is it really that simple, point and shoot?

I am looking at the NSC (am not familiar with the other companies) as I had been looking at them even before I found PS. Although I prefer a round cut, I am not liking the faceting patterns so prefer to look at the fancy cuts. I prefer a blue sapphire, not dark but not super light either.

I am finding they are MUCH more expensive than I expected. I expec $1000 would get me a 2ct whopper and it will barely buy me a nice 1ct. Shocker!

 

[oldmancoyote]

How does this strike you, Steel? 1.535 ct, $960

 

[Cind11]

I''d like to learn more about colored stones. Does this stone have a rather a large window, or am I just seeing things?

 

[DiamanteBlu]

Richard Hughes has a very informative site: http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/home.htm

BTW, I ADORE the gorgeous blue sapphires

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 1/9/2009 5:55:03 PM
Author: Cind11
I''d like to learn more about colored stones. Does this stone have a rather a large window, or am I just seeing things?

It probably does - given it says "with a hint of a window" on the vendor''s site.

But it''s a nice colour, assuming the photo is a good likeness.

 

[T L]

Again, just because something has great color, it can still be beryllium treated to get that great color, and you would never know it unless you had a reputable lab check for it (or if you sawed the stone in half).

 

[Kismet]

Date: 1/9/2009 5:27:16 PM
Author: Steel
Is it really that simple, point and shoot?

I am finding they are MUCH more expensive than I expected. I expec $1000 would get me a 2ct whopper and it will barely buy me a nice 1ct. Shocker!

To some extent, yes it is. There''s no formula saying if the angles are X then you''ll have a good looking stone. In colored stones, color trumps all. So it''s up to you to determine how much clarity, cut and carat you want to give up for the color or vice versa.

Stones at the NSC are untreated and thus have a higher price tag attached. If you''re on a budget, look at some gently heated sapphires for a better price.

Also, when looking at colored stones online, I''ve found that most stones tend to photograph lighter than they actually are so keep that in mind when looking at pictures.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 1/9/2009 6:19:22 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Again, just because something has great color, it can still be beryllium treated to get that great color, and you would never know it unless you had a reputable lab check for it (or if you sawed the stone in half).

That rather defeats the point of a nice sized gem, doesn''t it?

I assume Edward Bristol would not be too happy with a Be-treated stone, would he?

 

[Steel]

Date: 1/9/2009 5:40:20 PM
Author: oldmancoyote
How does this strike you, Steel? 1.535 ct, $960

Thank you for the suggestion!

But the price is more attractive than the stone

- which vendor are you looking at?

This stone is a great example of what I mean by the faceting is off to me. It looks like somebody took a nice cut and chopped at the back making little random chunky flashes - but without the prettiness of an old cut. Am I pavlov-ed by ACA''s?

 

[Steel]

Date: 1/9/2009 6:04:38 PM
Author: DiamanteBlu
Richard Hughes has a very informative site: http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/home.htm

BTW, I ADORE the gorgeous blue sapphires

I wil check it out! Thanks Diamanteblu.

 

[Steel]

Kismet & tourmaline_lover:

Thank you for replying!

This is where my inner snob takes interest in the conversation. In my heart I know I didn''t need a D diamond, but my inner snob did the ordering - not me. So, when I think about treated stones, I think Hmmmm, value for money = bigger is better ! But, my inner snob says, no treated stones!

Are treated stones so bad?

Kismet- Thank you for mentioning about NSC, that makes sense. So who else on the recommended list is really recommended? I suppose I should just do some searches and stop being lazy (

). Is there an equivalent of WF, JA, GOG etc to help me on my searches....

Thanks also for mentioning about the lighter photography. That is a big tip.

 

[arjunajane]

Hi Steel, I can relate to what you are saying about the cut of the stone.
This is just a suggestion, and I think most ppl quickly discover this for themselves, but perhaps you will better appreciate the precision cutting that is done by a numner of the recommended US vendors here?

As an example, I have just bought my first coloured stone from Daniel Stair after seeing Bling Addicts gorgeous spinel in this thread.
To me it looked so much like an OEC, I just had to have one!
He also does a "traditonal RB".

There are a number of other cutters in the sticky page that do these precision styles.

 

[Kismet]

Date: 1/9/2009 7:26:55 PM
Author: Steel
Kismet & tourmaline_lover:


Thank you for replying!


This is where my inner snob takes interest in the conversation. In my heart I know I didn''t need a D diamond, but my inner snob did the ordering - not me. So, when I think about treated stones, I think Hmmmm, value for money = bigger is better ! But, my inner snob says, no treated stones!


Are treated stones so bad?

Kismet- Thank you for mentioning about NSC, that makes sense. So who else on the recommended list is really recommended? I suppose I should just do some searches and stop being lazy (

). Is there an equivalent of WF, JA, GOG etc to help me on my searches....

Thanks also for mentioning about the lighter photography. That is a big tip.

No, not as such, as long as the treatment is disclosed. Gentle heating is a pretty acceptable treatment for sapphires. Something like BE diffusion tends not to be as acceptable.

If a perfect cut is going to be a requirement for you then you''re better off talking with one of the precision cutters. Someone like Jeff White (White''s Gems), Gene Flanigan (Precision Gems), Barry Bridgestock (Artistic Colored Stones) or Daniel Stair (Custom Gemstones). There are others but those are the ones that spring to mind at the moment.

Some of the vendors I''ve personally bought from are: ACS, Precision Gems, Art Cut Gems, Mineral Miners, Simply Sapphires.

This is this sapphire from Art Cut Gems.

 

[Steel]

Date: 1/9/2009 7:35:48 PM
Author: arjunajane
Hi Steel, I can relate to what you are saying about the cut of the stone.
This is just a suggestion, and I think most ppl quickly discover this for themselves, but perhaps you will better appreciate the precision cutting that is done by a numner of the recommended US vendors here?

As an example, I have just bought my first coloured stone from Daniel Stair after seeing Bling Addicts gorgeous spinel in this thread.
To me it looked so much like an OEC, I just had to have one!
He also does a ''traditonal RB''.

There are a number of other cutters in the sticky page that do these precision styles.

Thank you so much for this. I feel like I have seen the ''missing link'' for me. I really wanted a coloured stone but hated the cuts. Wowzers, that is a stunner. I have never seen any gem outside Erica & Grace''s website so pretty...

How does it work with Daniel''s site? Do you stalk until you see something pretty or do you have to request a cut?

 

[Steel]

Thank you Kismet, you have made a lazy gal happy! (

)

So a treated stone is not taboo? Hmmm. I assumed it was the same as with a diamond - treatments are bad even if they are disclosed.

Great info

.

 

[brendaman]

I have Jeff White sourcing a stone for me in the upcoming Tucson Gemshow (he''s going at the end of January, but I believe the show runs through early February). I''m looking for about a carat and heated as my budget is as much as yours. I''ve asked Jeff for a color similar to this. I think he does fab cuts on sapphires that they look like H&As of diamonds. I almost bought one from him some weeks ago, but decided that the color was too light for me (see below for pic)

 

[T L]

I know I've mentioned this before about treatment, but all be-heated stones are heated, but not all heated stones are be-heated (diffusion is the same thing, just different verbiage). That means that an unscrupulous seller can tell you your stone is heated, and if it's be-heated, he/she's not necessarily lying, but not disclosing the full truth. If spending a great deal on a sapphire, it is important to know that if your stone is heat treated, what kind of heat treating is done to it. Gentle heat is acceptable in the trade and doesn't devalue the stone that much, but be-heated stones are a dime a dozen, and not worth much, although some of them can look like very expensive sapphires.

BTW, as for fine color, since you asked, this stone is probably one of the finest in the world as far as Burma goes (the second most important source for sapphires after Kashmir), and I'm posting this because it's one of my favorite rings of all time.

The Rockefeller sapphire:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8033/rockefellersapphirekm3.jpg

 

[Steel]

Brendaman - Pretty cut, but it is a bit light for me too. So you like more 'formal' cuts too! Funny, before arjunajane posted I thought I was looking for the un-obtainable!

Tourmaline_lover - Great advice. So the trick is to buy from a reputable vendor, since I would not know beryllium treatment from my elbow! Thanks again.

ETA: Yup, that is a beautiful blue, I could get lost in colour that deep.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 1/9/2009 8:05:52 PM
Author: Steel

Date: 1/9/2009 7:35:48 PM
Author: arjunajane
Hi Steel, I can relate to what you are saying about the cut of the stone.
This is just a suggestion, and I think most ppl quickly discover this for themselves, but perhaps you will better appreciate the precision cutting that is done by a numner of the recommended US vendors here?

As an example, I have just bought my first coloured stone from Daniel Stair after seeing Bling Addicts gorgeous spinel in this thread.
To me it looked so much like an OEC, I just had to have one!
He also does a 'traditonal RB'.

There are a number of other cutters in the sticky page that do these precision styles.

Thank you so much for this. I feel like I have seen the 'missing link' for me. I really wanted a coloured stone but hated the cuts. Wowzers, that is a stunner. I have never seen any gem outside Erica & Grace's website so pretty...

How does it work with Daniel's site? Do you stalk until you see something pretty or do you have to request a cut?

Glad you like, its gorgeous right?
Also, Dan is sooo friendly and nice to work with.

I'm pretty sure the majority of his stuff is cut to order - you can see on the homepage what he is currently cutting for clients. However, my tourm was bought off the site with no order - its the 1.35 on the left. It just depends what you want.

I would contact him with some photos of the colour you like/description and then they either see if they have the rough in house, or need to try to order it for you.
good luck, keep us updated!

 

[Steel]

Date: 1/9/2009 8:42:05 PM
Author: arjunajane
Glad you like, its gorgeous right?
Also, Dan is sooo friendly and nice to work with.

I''m pretty sure the majority of his stuff is cut to order - you can see on the homepage what he is currently cutting for clients. However, my tourm was bought off the site with no order - its the 1.35 on the left. It just depends what you want.

I would contact him with some photos of the colour you like/description and then they either see if they have the rough in house, or need to try to order it for you.
good luck, keep us updated!

Thanks a mill!

This will be a year-long project. Times are tough so I am only gong to get one piece and I need to make it Gooood!

I will keep researching (and oogling!).

 

[movie zombie]

you mentioned that your inner snob insisted on a D diamond.........as with diamonds, there is something for every buget in the world of color stones. as in all things, you get what you pay for: richard wise is high end but his info is not. take advantage of his eye and the years he spent developing it. browse his website gleening info and if you''re serious about color stones make sure to buy his book. this will help you gain the knowledge to make an informed decision as to the tradeoffs you are making because it always comes back to budget. is there a difference between a sapphire of many thousands per carat and one that is $1000 per carat or less? you betcha. but what ultimately is important is are you pleased with it.

movie zombie

 

[Steel]

Date: 1/9/2009 9:08:19 PM
Author: movie zombie
you mentioned that your inner snob insisted on a D diamond.........as with diamonds, there is something for every buget in the world of color stones. as in all things, you get what you pay for: richard wise is high end but his info is not. take advantage of his eye and the years he spent developing it. browse his website gleening info and if you''re serious about color stones make sure to buy his book. this will help you gain the knowledge to make an informed decision as to the tradeoffs you are making because it always comes back to budget. is there a difference between a sapphire of many thousands per carat and one that is $1000 per carat or less? you betcha. but what ultimately is important is are you pleased with it.

movie zombie

You are right. That is why I am starting my research so early. I get that there are probably 3 factors to consider when buying a gemstone: 1) research 2) research 3) research.

I certainly do not want to end up buying something that will sit in my jewellery box gathering dust when I learn what a bad buy it was.

I am going to think like a sponge - and get soaking up more info. Geesh - I thought I had it made, when I learned about diamonds!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 1/9/2009 9:16:34 PM
Author: Steel

You are right. That is why I am starting my research so early. I get that there are probably 3 factors to consider when buying a gemstone: 1) research 2) research 3) research.

I certainly do not want to end up buying something that will sit in my jewellery box gathering dust when I learn what a bad buy it was.

I am going to think like a sponge - and get soaking up more info. Geesh - I thought I had it made, when I learned about diamonds!

I know right? Its like a whole ''nother universe over here!
I''m excited to hear about your project and find out what you choose - I''m guessing its for a RHR?
And you''re welcome Steel - I have very little techy info to offer, as I''ve got big ''ol L plates on too here

But I do know what I like..perhaps we can learn together.

 

[Cind11]

Not to hijack this thread since sapphires are being talked about, but what other gems can possibly be BE treated?

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 1/9/2009 7:18:39 PM
Author: Steel

Date: 1/9/2009 5:40:20 PM
Author: oldmancoyote
How does this strike you, Steel? 1.535 ct, $960

Thank you for the suggestion!

But the price is more attractive than the stone

- which vendor are you looking at?

This stone is a great example of what I mean by the faceting is off to me. It looks like somebody took a nice cut and chopped at the back making little random chunky flashes - but without the prettiness of an old cut. Am I pavlov-ed by ACA's?

It's at wildfishgems. I was trying to get a trade off between size, colour, no treatment and budget - and gave up on the cut.

JMHO - cut is important but not to the extent it is in colourless diamonds (since RI, dispersion and reflectivity are much lower in most coloured stones); ACA-like standards of cutting are I believe totally unkonwn in coloured; on the other hand, the variety of fancy cuts available in colour is nowhere to be seen in diamonds - which tells you how much (or how little) is going on in diamonds, if everything people have to obsess about are 0.1 degree variations in crown angles

.

cind11: all corundum can be berillium-diffused (at the ruby/red end to get more intense colour, at the blue/sapphire end to decrease tone in dark stones - see http://lgdl.gia.edu/pdfs/su03a1.pdf)