HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be G/H

[Hera]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

A stone being advertised as a G/H and then coming out to be an M is flat out sellers misrepresentation. They need to give you a refund! If they don't, then you need to start a ebay buyer's protection case. If that somehow doesn't work for you, then you need to also contact paypal and your credit card.
Btw, what type of stone is this? Is this a modern cut or an old cut?

Not really. The seller called it a g/h and it still is by the sellers standards. There is no universally accepted standard for grading. If you bought a stone with a EGL report and then sent it to GIA and it received a different grade was the seller lying? Is EGL lying? No it's just different standards. This is why it is important to buy a diamond already graded by a reputable lab.

Interesting perspective. I personally have faith in GIA's authority and accuracy. My impression is that most people in the industry recognize GIA in the same way. Though when I bought a stone represented (mounted) as K color and GIA graded it (loose) S-T, the seller's position was that GIA made a mistake and the stone can't be that warm. So I guess there are people out there who will argue with GIA.

And yet, I think most people in the industry accept and respect the GIA cert. If this was an ebay purchase and the buyer filed a claim, I think ebay would side with the GIA cert over "the seller's standards." There is some science to the color grades after all, no?

GIA is accepted because of their consistency. That is irrelevant to this situation.

The point is I can sell a diamond. I can call it whatever color I want. Grades are opinions. The seller didn't lie. In their (or who ever graded it) opinion was it was a g/h colored diamond. Now if the seller said the diamond was a g color based on GIA's standards then op might have a case.

I still think it's misrepresented and the buyer should go for a refund. Depending on how it was bought, here's some course of action:

Ebay:
1. Contact seller and tell them you want to do a return, try to work it out nicely.
2. If they say no, open a Ebay buyers protection case (do it quickly, there are deadlines). Ebay protection overrides any return policies so it doesn't matter if you're out of the return period.
3. If that doesn't work, contact your credit card company. Hopefully, you used AMEX.

Non ebay:
1. Contact seller and tell them you want to do a return, try to work it out nicely.
2. Contact your credit card company

We obviously have differing opinions on this. Ultimately, it's either up to ebay or to the credit card companies to make that final determination.

 

[AnnaH]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

How does the price of your diamond compare to similar diamonds? Maybe you didn't overpay. You can do a search here to see. If the price is fair and you like the stone, you may want to keep it. It's quite a large diamond.

 

[zz00ter]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

It is really going to suck looking at the diamond for years to come and have it as an expensive reminder that you got taken advantage of.

 

[canuk-gal]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

It is really going to suck looking at the diamond for years to come and have it as an expensive reminder that you got taken advantage of.

Excellent. Very helpful Debbie Downer.


To the OP--let us know what happens and how we can HELP you. Wishing you success.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Niel]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

Well I'm sorry but if it was appropriately priced for what it is, and you liked it before the gia cert, other than the shady seller, I really don't see a problem.

Of course try and return it as it wasn't as represented. But if you can't it isn't the end of the world. Or if you find the only way to get that size while your shopping is to look around that color range, that's not a problem just a characteristic

 

[zz00ter]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

Excellent. Very helpful Debbie Downer.

Well - honestly that is how I would feel.
A does of reality might motivate them to do what they need to do and that is to return the diamond

 

[distracts]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

I don't understand why you want a G/H/I stone if you were apparently perfectly happy with the M color? While I do think it's probably wisest not to do business with this seller, and think you'd be happier with an ideal-cut stone, I think if you found the M an acceptable color you could easily do a J or K ideal cut. Although I do also agree with Niel that if it is appropriately priced for what it is, you may just want to keep it since apparently you liked it before getting the grading report. Not knowing the price or the other grading details I can't say whether or not it was priced appropriately or overpriced for what it is.

 

[zz00ter]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

I see it as a matter of principle.
If the buyer does nothing then the seller will keep on scamming people with impunity.

 

[kb1gra]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

Excellent. Very helpful Debbie Downer.

Well - honestly that is how I would feel.
A does of reality might motivate them to do what they need to do and that is to return the diamond

Why? If they liked it before the cert, then the cert is coloring their opinion of what they "should" have but they were excited about the size and other features of the diamond for the price they paid so why is this an immediate return?

 

[kb1gra]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

I see it as a matter of principle.
If the buyer does nothing then the seller will keep on scamming people with impunity.

If they paid the correct price FOR WHAT THEY GOT, as opposed to a whopping deal on what they THINK they got, then is someone really being scammed here? We don't know the price, so we don't know if anyone was "had."

 

[zz00ter]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

How would you feel if you were told the car you were buying was an 8 cylinder and when you got it home you found out it was only a 6 cylinder?

From what I see the difference between G/H and M is quite large and so my assumption is that it is not an "honest mistake"

unless of course it was an "EGL H" which is really a "GIA M"

 

[Niel]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

How would you feel if you were told the car you were buying was an 8 cylinder and when you got it home you found out it was only a 6 cylinder?

From what I see the difference between G/H and M is quite large and so my assumption is that it is not an "honest mistake"

unless of course it was an "EGL H" which is really a "GIA M"

I don't think that's an apt comparison, as that's a performance issue this is a characteristic issue. Did the cut get worse sense the color was not as represented? No. Did the color change? No.

 

[kb1gra]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

unless of course it was an "EGL H" which is really a "GIA M"

It was an "uncerted" H which could be a GIA "anything."

That's what happens when you buy uncerted diamonds. But if you love it and you feel the price you paid was fair, then why does it matter what the GIA cert says you have?

I say this as the owner of an uncerted L-M RB that was my mother's and a GIA N color H&A RB. If you're not educated or color sensitive enough to know what you're buying would grade as, and you buy an uncerted diamond, you have to like what you got and the price you paid because there is no way of knowing what you have.

 

[TC1987]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

It is really going to suck looking at the diamond for years to come and have it as an expensive reminder that you got taken advantage of.

I don't think "got taken advantage of" totally applies here. The buyer took a chance buying an uncerted diamond at what they knew was a fantastic price for the specs claimed, then had it examined by GIA and found it was not that. I think it's inaccurate to say they were "taken advantage of," because the buyer could have told the seller to provide proper documentation as a condition of sale.

 

[zz00ter]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

Do you think the seller made an HONEST mistake?

Why do we not want to hold sellers to a higher standard of accountability?

The problem is not just in how the diamond looks but in the value of it as well.
How much will the present owner be able to resell the diamond for incase they want an upgrade?
The resale value is now much lower - unless the present owner misrepresents to the next buyer.

 

[TC1987]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

Hey zz, we've already explained to you how the real world works. BUYERS must take responsibility for their own actions, and do the proper research for any major purchase, and get the terms in writing, and sometimes they get ripped off if they don't.

How much will the present owner be able to resell the diamond for incase they want an upgrade?
The resale value is now much lower - unless the present owner misrepresents to the next buyer.

Yes. If you gamble, be prepared to lose. Maybe this buyer bought that diamond as an underpriced G/H, hoping it graded GIA I or J and 3x cut, planning to resell the diamond at profit. One never knows, does one.

 

[zz00ter]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

I never said that the buyer should not do his due diligence.

I guess we should just accept the fact that everyone is a liar and noone is to be trusted.

 

[GemFever]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

Hey zz, we've already explained to you how the real world works. BUYERS must take responsibility for their own actions, and do the proper research for any major purchase, and get the terms in writing, and sometimes they get ripped off if they don't.

Sure, buyers must take responsibility. But there are also return policies, no? Why is it wrong to return this stone? The buyer paid for a cert, found out more info, did some work. Is there anything wrong with returning it now? Just hypothetically.

 

[TC1987]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

??? I was addressing all of this hang-the-seller chitchat that implied that the buyer was a complete hapless victim, and I don't think that is the case. I already said dump it back on the seller and do a cc reversal, if there's no other way out. They've gotten excellent advice in this thread, from a number of people.

 

[GemFever]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

??? I was addressing all of this hang-the-seller chitchat that implied that the buyer was a complete hapless victim, and I don't think that is the case. I already said dump it back on the seller and do a cc reversal, if there's no other way out. They've gotten excellent advice in this thread, from a number of people.

Oh, sorry I misread the essence of your post. You are right, buyers need to be smart!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

I am unclear whether you loved the size or whether you loved the color, too, until you found out the true color. I would easily be able to see the tint in an M color stone, and I wouldn't be happy about the misrepresentation. The only way I could give the seller a break is if it is someone selling their grandmother's antique ring and they are just guessing the color and you know upfront the color is a total unknown.

Obviously, the buyer is always the one who is responsible for making sure a diamond is graded or verifiable with a return policy. But in a case like this, I'd demand a refund as it does sound like he was deliberately mislead. And under NO circumstances would I buy another stone from this seller! (And also, I personally would far rather have a 1.5 ct G-H-I than a 2.5 ct M in a modern round brilliant for an engagement ring.)

 

[pyramid]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

I wouldn't say color is a characteristic, color costs a lot of money, as much as carat weight, clarity and is therefore a quality gradient in my opinion. If all colors cost the same and they said do you want a yellow M or a white G take your pick, that would be a characteristic to me, like do you want a red comb or a blue or yellow comb.

The poster needs to find out if what he paid is fair for what he got. You will not get a large high color diamond for the same as a large M color diamond, the M may be equivalent in price to a high color diamond of quarter to half the size.

 

[Roxy]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

As a newbie, I thought you could get great deals on diamonds....turns out, you really can't and the diamond represented to be a steal of a deal G/H turned out to be an M color per the GIA grading report we got AFTER the fact......I warned you I was dumb, right?! It's big at 2.5 carats which we love and has medium fluorescence that really does hide the color but isn't it still better to get a smaller G/H/I color excellent cut, polish and symmetry for the same price......sacrifice size for better color especially since it will be set in platinum Tiffany type setting? I'd prefer a refund so I can purchase elsewhere, perhaps get a Brian Gavin stone instead, but I may be stuck with trading it out with the original seller.

I think you've gotten a lot of valuable input from others on the thread and I'm so sorry that you've had something like this happen to you! You're not "dumb". You may have made a mistake (by not getting the grading report prior to your purchase), but unfortunately most of the time we don't know we're making a mistake until AFTER we've made it .

I hope you're able to resolve this in some way that doesn't completely ruin what should be an exciting time for you.

 

[arkieb1]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

I don't think you are dumb - it is VERY very common for jewellers, ebay sellers and others to sell diamonds and claim they are a specific colour or clarity and then the purchaser finds out against what is a very strict GIA grading system they are in fact something else. A lot of people also go for EGL stones thinking they will save money. There is no cutting corners when purchasing a diamond.

What you now need to decide is do you love the stone? Considering the vendor misrepresented the colour of it then you should be entitled to a refund because it was misrepresented to you when they sold it. Was it a fair price for what you got? Can you live with the colour of the diamond? If the answer is no to any of these questions then take it back, get a refund, and next time buy a GIA stone. If you love the diamond, but think you got ripped off take the new GIA grading report back to the shop or email it to them and demand a partial refund for the diamond.

 

[Niel]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

I wouldn't say color is a characteristic, color costs a lot of money, as much as carat weight, clarity and is therefore a quality gradient in my opinion. If all colors cost the same and they said do you want a yellow M or a white G take your pick, that would be a characteristic to me, like do you want a red comb or a blue or yellow comb.

The poster needs to find out if what he paid is fair for what he got. You will not get a large high color diamond for the same as a large M color diamond, the M may be equivalent in price to a high color diamond of quarter to half the size.

It is a characteristic. One that OTHERS place more value on which would then influence price. But that does not make the stone defective. You may not value it. The diamond industry as a whole may not value it. But ]its still just a characteristic. What's popular in diamonds does not change the diamond itself. If low color diamonds were popular, then it would cost more. Did anything about the diamond itself change in that scenario ? No. So its a characteristic.


And as much as posters here can say oh they wouldn't want it or an M is to low. Its not theres its the OPS. And he like it when he bought it. So there's no reason to tell him its a negative when you're the one that thinks it is. Not necessarily him. As sounds like his eyes liked the color.


Is misrepresentation of characteristics a negative? Yes. But the characteristic itself along with the apparent appreciation for it isn't.

 

[distracts]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

I wouldn't say color is a characteristic, color costs a lot of money, as much as carat weight, clarity and is therefore a quality gradient in my opinion. If all colors cost the same and they said do you want a yellow M or a white G take your pick, that would be a characteristic to me, like do you want a red comb or a blue or yellow comb.

Well but with corundum red is most expensive, followed by one particular shade of blue, followed by other colors, including pink and other shades of blue, but that doesn't make red a quality characteristic. We've seen that some people DO prefer lower colors of diamond. The price is set by rarity and market demands, but those do not equal quality. Given that OP apparently liked the M before finding out it was an M, I don't think it's necessary for them to go way higher in color. I don't think they should do business with this vendor because of the discrepancy, but I don't think they should waste money on color when evidently they're not terribly color sensitive.

 

[canuk-gal]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

HI:

OP where are you? Hope you were not frightened away--in asking for assistance here...

cheers--Sharon

 

[pyramid]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

I don't understand why you want a G/H/I stone if you were apparently perfectly happy with the M color? While I do think it's probably wisest not to do business with this seller, and think you'd be happier with an ideal-cut stone, I think if you found the M an acceptable color you could easily do a J or K ideal cut. Although I do also agree with Niel that if it is appropriately priced for what it is, you may just want to keep it since apparently you liked it before getting the grading report. Not knowing the price or the other grading details I can't say whether or not it was priced appropriately or overpriced for what it is.

I would think on rarity as a quality characteristic that is why it costs more otherwise it would just all cost the same, the pink
sapphire and the best colored ruby available. Not quality of material but quality of characteristic, the quality being it is 'more rare' which qualifies it as better than a more common colored diamond for lesser money. One definition of quality is. calibre which I would equate to rarity.

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

I wouldn't say color is a characteristic, color costs a lot of money, as much as carat weight, clarity and is therefore a quality gradient in my opinion. If all colors cost the same and they said do you want a yellow M or a white G take your pick, that would be a characteristic to me, like do you want a red comb or a blue or yellow comb.

The poster needs to find out if what he paid is fair for what he got. You will not get a large high color diamond for the same as a large M color diamond, the M may be equivalent in price to a high color diamond of quarter to half the size.

It is a characteristic. One that OTHERS place more value on which would then influence price. But that does not make the stone defective. You may not value it. The diamond industry as a whole may not value it. But ]its still just a characteristic. What's popular in diamonds does not change the diamond itself. If low color diamonds were popular, then it would cost more. Did anything about the diamond itself change in that scenario ? No. So its a characteristic.


And as much as posters here can say oh they wouldn't want it or an M is to low. Its not theres its the OPS. And he like it when he bought it. So there's no reason to tell him its a negative when you're the one that thinks it is. Not necessarily him. As sounds like his eyes liked the color.


Is misrepresentation of characteristics a negative? Yes. But the characteristic itself along with the apparent appreciation for it isn't.

Exactly. Price is not a gemological property. If what you like is cheaper than what you don't like, that's a feature, not a problem.

 

[pyramid]

Re: HELP! dumb newbie bought M color round represented to be

I suppose with the way people are buying diamonds now where rarity means nothing better, and lower color big diamonds are just as good then that is why there are less people on these boards now. I mean if diamonds are not seen as rare then what are they, just another material like topaz, garnet etc.