Help! Diamond purchased but appraisal not good!

[duckwebber]

I only paid for a verbal appraisal so could not take away any documents, although I can go back and pay extra to get them (he said he will keep it for me for a few days). I dont think any photographs were taken. Unfortunately the link to the GOG report for the diamond I bought has been deleted from their website and I did not save a copy of it - only have the GIA and Isee2 report links.

Given the reputation that Jon has, I am trying to accept his explanation for what happened, although he does not know for sure himself, he had the impression he bought it as an Ex/Ex and left it shipped as an Ex/Ex. He did say that this diamond is definitely not used, was never sold and returned nor set in a ring and dismounted. I guess I have to believe it? And based on that, the only explanation for the discrepancy was that it was mis-handled. Jon explained that his lab assistants could have overlooked this during inspection before it was shipped out to me. Given that this stone was not called in but available in his inventory when I reserved it, perhaps it was tossed around abit? The appraiser told me that should never have happened as stones this size should always be handled individually. I recall when I first called GOG on the phone to enquire about this stone, they weren''t sure if it was still available as they could not locate the stone in its supposed storage place. They called back later to confirm they still have it for sale and explained Jon was "using" it hence they could not find it. Something funky there? I dont know, I also wonder if it happened during the laser inscription of the stone which I requested for. Maybe I shouldn''t have asked for that, but I needed it to get the ring set as the jeweller I was using said it was important for them and myself to identify the diamond pre and post setting. Perhaps the isee2 inscription would have been enough identification but I didnt know better than. In any case, Im not sure I should feel guilty about that nor feel responsible for any mishandling that occurred prior to me receiving the stone. And no point speculating how it happened either I guess - thing it is has happened (yes .... after speculating so much!:p)

Will you accept the stone with these new findings if it was still eye clean? Thats the question Im trying to answer. Which is a difficult one cos I have not seen the stone and wont be able to set eyes on it until April. If I assume it is, then perhaps I can live with it, and we can negotiate a price adjustment that is agreeable for both parties. Its easier to live with if it had been just a diamond ring (which i might potentially trade up, etc), but its supposed to be my engagement ring - which has the forever element to it.... If I cant be mind clean even with it being eye clean, then its a return and refund. Things have turned out so different to what I was expecting!

 

[arjunajane]

Hi, I think you have answered your own Q''s - I say return it, no doubt. I''m positive Jon is and will take responsibilty and do what he can to make it right.
I personally just don''t see this working for you, especially for an e-ring - too much stress.
I 2nd what strm said, its a RB, not a rare or limited cut - plenty more nice stones where that came from!
hope u work it out

 

[pyramid]

duckwebber

I wanted to alert you to something which may not affect you, but when I noticed you had bought from Singapore I thought this may be relevant. I note you are discussing a reduction of maybe +$500 on the diamond due to polishing.

My story I ordered a diamond ring from GOG (no fault to them here just coincidence it is same dealer) and I am in UK, I returned the ring which was a 1.90 of a similar price to yours (lower colour). My transaction for purchase was on 29 June 2007 and I returned the ring within perhaps 10 days due to personal wishes on stones angle which I should have checked beforehand. I got a cheque in the UK within 30 days from GOG which is what their rules are as are all dealers probably. However from the time of purchase and the cheque being cleared by UK banks due to the US dollar falling I lost £500 approx $1000. Purchase on 29 June 2007 and refund in my account six weeks later. I checked with my bank and was told there was a foreign bank fee of $25 and an agent fee of £20 so the rest was due to the exchange rate, i.e. good when buyng from UK but not so when changing it back from US$ to £ after a period of the dollar falling in between transactions.

I don't know how the exchange rate has been in Singapore or if the falling dollar is less now, but I thought this may have a bearing on your decision.

I do not regret returning the diamond I bought because I know I want a different spec however if there is a diamond at GOG you would be happy with, if I was you I would trade this one back for that one, I would not want to go the recertification route etc on a new stone. I realise however you may not want to go through returning the stone. You need to really think if you would be happy in the future with the diamond YOURSELF. I notice you will not see it until April but that will be past your return period unless something else is sorted with GOG however I wanted you to keep in mind the exchange rates although perhaps you are educated in this respect and knew all this already. It was just a nasty surprise for me at the time but I am still happy with my decision in the long run.

 

[pyramid]

I notice also the diamond you purchased is 1.50, is there a guarantee it will not drop to 1.49 during the polishing, as this would put it in a different price bracket. I know 0.01 is a lot of weight in polishing terms so maybe I am totally off here but this may be something you want to discuss with GOG or an Independent Appraiser. (I have seen people having chips repaired at less than 1 point)

 

[duckwebber]

Sorry that was a typo, the stone is 1.58 D/VS1. But like you, i wouldnt go the re-polishing route as well. Jon said it was not necessary for re-certification after the light polishing he plans to do as the weight would not be affected at all but Im not comfortable with that. You never know how much work needs to be done until it gets to the factory and i hear it might even lose up to 0.02 but in any case, I think a repolish should be accompanied by a re-cert but tat would take way too long for me. We have looked at the alternatives but nothing at the moment we thought were suitable. Thanks for raising an important point Pyramid, the USD has indeed been weakening against the Singapore dollar and as you said, would result in some foreign exchange conversion losses if I went for a refund. May I just check how you got around the VAT issue when you returned the ring? Did you manage to claim a refund on that as well? In Singapore, its less (7% goods and servives tax) but in the UK its quite substantial isn''t it? 17.5%?

I wont be able to leave it to April before deciding i think, as that would have implications on the tax refund I plan to apply for should I return the ring. And besides, I really dont want to leave this too long now. Its a horrible feeling.

 

[pyramid]

duckwebber

After form filling I got a full refund on the 17.5% vat and 2.5% customs duty.

 

[Ellen]

duck, I''m really sorry this hasn''t turned out as well as any of us would have expected. Really, this is such an anomaly coming from GOG.

You said there weren''t any alternative diamonds, but I wondered what was undesirable about this one? Honestly, no one would be able to see the difference between D and E, and this particular VS2 is very clean. I''d take it.

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/1171/

 

[kevinng]

Duckwebber contacted me for assistance regarding this case. Actually, I was the one who recommended the appraiser to her. The appraiser is good. He has always been independent, and his calls are usually spot on (per GIA's standards). He will also tell you if the diamond's qualities are between GIA grades, just in case he needs to make subjective calls.

I have also been in touch with Good Old Gold regarding this case, and they have been working very closely with Duckwebber. I have bought a couple of diamonds from Good Old Gold before, and they were both really cherry, as confirmed by the same appraiser. It's a real shame that Duckwebber's turned out like that. Good Old Gold did not for one moment shirk it's responsibilities. They assured me that they will be fair to Duckwebber. In fact, they offered Duckwebber many alternate solutions (too long to narate). I'm sure she would eventually be happy with one.

I am pretty sure that Duckwebber will not suffer any material loss, although she has been greatly inconvenienced. I will continue to assist Duckwebber so long as she needs my help. But from what I gather, it's more or less sorted out. I'm sure Duckwebber to update you soon, on the final outcome.

 

[kevinng]

Wow... I''ve been away so long, I did not realise that my Avatar picture of my dog is still there. That''s Kiki. She was born in 1993. She''s actually blind and deaf now, from age. She sleeps all the time, but she''s in good health, considering her age.

 

[duckwebber]

Kevin has been a great help throughout and I am really thankful for that. Jon and I have been working through the possible solutions and while nothing is firm yet, chances are I will have to send the stone back to him for medical attention. He will most likely send it back to Isee2 and then take it from there (Isee2 to repair, then GIA re-cert thereafter, etc). As I mentioned before, I have no access to the stone and taking this option means inconveniencing not just me, but my family members, which I am really reluctant to do. It also will delay getting my e-ring for what is at the moment, an indefinite amount of time - but I dont think I''ve got another reasonable option. Having said that, my logistical complications are also the consequence of my own decision - buying the diamond in Singapore then leaving the country so I can only deal with my own choices now. On an objective level, I think Jon has been responsive to this situation, and I can see he is trying. But on a personal level, it is all still a question mark and will remain so until I get the diamond back and graded again.

 

[surfgirl]

I guess I''m still not understanding why you dont just get a new stone and call it a day. All this re-polishing and re-certing seems more apt for a stone one''s inherited or had for a long time...for a new purchase, I wouldn''t put this much into it, just exchange it and move on, no? Is there something incredibly unique about this stone that you dont just get another one?

 

[Rhino]

Greetings,

Yes ... an anomaly. We've never had this issue before so I'm curious to see it of course. The appraiser makes it sound as if the diamond were polished on grainy sand.

Also, the diamond's page wasn't deleted, it is just removed from public viewing so as not to appear for sale to the public. If duckwebber likes she can post a link if she has it saved or bookmarked. I've offered duckwebber no less than 5 options including two available Isee2 1.5xct D VS1's available to me (one of which is enroute) but she wants to stick with the original. We are accommodating her each step of the way and doing everything within our means to help.

Kind regards,

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 3/1/2008 12:20:21 PM
Author: surfgirl
I guess I''m still not understanding why you dont just get a new stone and call it a day. All this re-polishing and re-certing seems more apt for a stone one''s inherited or had for a long time...for a new purchase, I wouldn''t put this much into it, just exchange it and move on, no? Is there something incredibly unique about this stone that you dont just get another one?

ditto!! seems way to much *work* to me. that said, i''m 100% sure Jon will do everything in his power to make sure you end up happy with whatever you decide.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 3/1/2008 4:20:54 PM
Author: mrssalvo

Date: 3/1/2008 12:20:21 PM
Author: surfgirl
I guess I''m still not understanding why you dont just get a new stone and call it a day. All this re-polishing and re-certing seems more apt for a stone one''s inherited or had for a long time...for a new purchase, I wouldn''t put this much into it, just exchange it and move on, no? Is there something incredibly unique about this stone that you dont just get another one?

ditto!! seems way to much *work* to me. that said, i''m 100% sure Jon will do everything in his power to make sure you end up happy with whatever you decide.

thritto!! If it were up to me, I would take Jon up on his offer to simply exchange the stone. I don''t understand duckwebber''s reluctance to do so

 

[Rhino]

Date: 3/1/2008 7:13:59 PM
Author: risingsun

Date: 3/1/2008 4:20:54 PM
Author: mrssalvo

Date: 3/1/2008 12:20:21 PM
Author: surfgirl
I guess I''m still not understanding why you dont just get a new stone and call it a day. All this re-polishing and re-certing seems more apt for a stone one''s inherited or had for a long time...for a new purchase, I wouldn''t put this much into it, just exchange it and move on, no? Is there something incredibly unique about this stone that you dont just get another one?

ditto!! seems way to much *work* to me. that said, i''m 100% sure Jon will do everything in his power to make sure you end up happy with whatever you decide.

thritto!! If it were up to me, I would take Jon up on his offer to simply exchange the stone. I don''t understand duckwebber''s reluctance to do so

The Isee2 options had medium blue. Not an issue for me personally as I called in one for stock nonetheless, but duck would rather not. While there are plenty of D VS1''s out there, D VS1''s in this caliber of cut are not easy finds.

 

[duckwebber]

Yes, the other alternative stones Jon suggested all had medium blue fluourescence. I know most would argue its not an issue (i''ve read the threads on fluourescence here), only when under black light does it show. However, it also can look different under sunlight and in some off chance, cloudy or milky? As you all know by now, I will not be able to see the diamond I receive until April and Im not sure if I can take a ''new'' risk with a new stone, after how the first one turned out. Also seems like a new stone would result in custom duties again. I checked and the Singapore Customs said unless it the same item is being exported and re-imported, any item exchange will be subjected to duties again, although Im not sure how they can enforce that, Im sure Jon and I might be able to make it out to be an exchange (hmm ... maybe I shouldnt say that here...) ?

Sounds like most of you think its better to just return it and refund, or exchange it for another, and not go down the re-polishing route... its not that Im attached to this stone in any way (i havent even seen it!), just that Im prepared to go through the diamond ''searching'' process again... and as for exchange, fluourescence issues as per above. In fact when I first started my diamond search, i was ruling out ''fluourescent'' diamonds immediately (then I knew alot less but u know its not mind-clean as well if u retract that initial criteria...abit like compromise ...if so, then I might as well just compromise with the abrasions? or is that different? anyway, dont know if its this complicated or im making it so...). Maybe I will reserve the exchange option, and see how we go when Jon gets to see the diamond and the ''health report'' it gets from Isee2.

 

[arjunajane]

Just on a side note, I think you will find that most of the reported findings on fluoro say that a stone will only present milky or cloudy in Very rare cases, and only then in strong to very strong blue. I can''t remember the exact numbers, I''m sure someone will correct me

, But when GIA wanted to do a study on this they couldn''t find enough stones presenting with milky or cloudy appearance to get a significant sample - and this is GIA!

Can''t find the link at the moment, maybe someone else knows?

That said, everyone has their individual levels of comfort, and you need to stick to urs of course, js wanted to make sure you have all the info, as I agree that swapping sounds like an easier route.
I hope it all figures out for u!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 3/2/2008 4:24:15 AM
Author: arjunajane
Just on a side note, I think you will find that most of the reported findings on fluoro say that a stone will only present milky or cloudy in Very rare cases, and only then in strong to very strong blue. I can''t remember the exact numbers, I''m sure someone will correct me

, But when GIA wanted to do a study on this they couldn''t find enough stones presenting with milky or cloudy appearance to get a significant sample - and this is GIA!

Can''t find the link at the moment, maybe someone else knows?

That said, everyone has their individual levels of comfort, and you need to stick to urs of course, js wanted to make sure you have all the info, as I agree that swapping sounds like an easier route.
I hope it all figures out for u!

Correct. I don''t know the numbers off hand either, but they are extremely low.

I see no reason at all to dismiss a stone with med. flo. I''d go for one of Jon''s alternatives if possible.

 

[duckwebber]

OK, so I might consider taking the alternative stone. But if my e-ring design has a pave setting, will the centre stone medium blue fluorescence compromise its beauty against the melee stones?

 

[denverappraiser]

Unless you spend a lot of time in the disco, medium fluorescence will have no visible effect at all. By the way, it’s not unusual for pave fields to have a few fluorescent ones in the field that you’ve never even noticed. Stick it under a black like and check it out.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Rhino]

Date: 3/2/2008 5:04:53 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Unless you spend a lot of time in the disco, medium fluorescence will have no visible effect at all. By the way, it’s not unusual for pave fields to have a few fluorescent ones in the field that you’ve never even noticed. Stick it under a black like and check it out.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Too funny. I use the same analogy when folks are asking how concerned they should be over medium blue. BeeGee''s anyone?

The only times I''ve run into problems with medium blue is when it was combined with obvious graining issues. The combo of the two can result in an oily appearance. I''ll be checking for that when the newbie arrives anyhow.

Peace,

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 3/2/2008 4:37:00 PM
Author: duckwebber
OK, so I might consider taking the alternative stone. But if my e-ring design has a pave setting, will the centre stone medium blue fluorescence compromise its beauty against the melee stones?

In a word - nope, imho

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 3/2/2008 7:59:37 PM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 3/2/2008 4:37:00 PM

Author: duckwebber

OK, so I might consider taking the alternative stone. But if my e-ring design has a pave setting, will the centre stone medium blue fluorescence compromise its beauty against the melee stones?

In a word - nope, imho

ditto!!

 

[vintagelover229]

You were wondering about Jonathan "using" the diamond and were saying it might be funky. What they probably meant by that is Jonathan does many comparision videos for people and he pulls diamonds and he was probably using that one in a video. GOG did an AMAZING job for me and were nothing but wonderful. Jonathan would NEVER do anything to EVER mislead a custemor about a diamond they are buying. I''m not sure what happened but I know Jonathan will do everything in his power to help you feel better about what has happened. I am so sorry that this has happened to you, although I am sure the diamond you have bought is beautful anyhow, I would ask Jonathan to find one that is equal to the one you had and ship you a new one. I''m sure he''d be more than happy to do so for you. I have only heard wonderful things about GOG and they did wonderful for me. I am going to see Jonathan when I visit NYC in Aug. so I can show him the beautiful diamond he picked out and found for me. I''m sure everything will work out!

 

[surfgirl]

Is there any way that you'll be in the NY area, or is there any way you CAN be in the NY area anytime in the next few months? If so, I think it's almost worth it to just try to select a setting you love, or perhaps two, ask Jon to get them in in your ring size, and go in person and choose your stone, he can get it set quickly and you can wear it home, avoiding VAT for importing it?

ETA: I just re read your thread and I see that the stone is in SNG and you're in the UK. Why not have the stone sent back to GOG. Or, if not possible to arrange shipping back to GOG from SNG, hand carry the stone back to UK from your April SNG visit and ship it back yourself from the UK...then plan to get a cheap air ticket to NYC, take a long weekend (ie: red eye Thurs. night), go to GOG on a Friday, select your stone in person. If you haven't bought the setting yet in SNG, I'd probably just try to get Jon to get a similar/same setting in for you and he could set the stone for you, you wear it home and no VAT on anything. Et viola! Problem solved.

 

[duckwebber]

After exploring my options, most of which have too many ok-buts and what-ifs, it seems like the most logical thing for me to do is to accept the stone and move on.

The fact that I''m not in Singapore to arrange returns/exchange/custom duties claims has been a huge barrier to considering the other options I have been offered. In fact I was ready to first return the stone to Jon for re-polishing and if that was going to change the quality of the stone and result in any undesirable delay, then I was also prepared to accept an alternative stone (with the med blue fluo). However, i learnt that any re-import of a diamond (return from repair or new diamond) into Singapore will result in another goods and services tax (GST and handling fee i think totalling 7.35%). Some logistics companies provide a Temporary Export/Import service (this provides a waiver on re-entry but has to be applied for by the logistics agent) but Fedex (which GOG uses for overseas shipping) does not. In other words, you have to pay the GST upfront then try and claim it back after. As I do not reside in Singapore, this could only mean more complications for me down the road. I have to say that I do feel a little resigned in my decision but I can only be hopeful that when I finally see my e-ring in April with THE diamond, i would still be happy with it. Helps that I dont have perfect eyesight!

Thanks everyone for your help/advice/suggestions - I read and considered them all seriously! I''ll put a post up in April again and can you all keep your fingers crossed for me!

 

[surfgirl]

Yeah, but if you take the stone when you''re in SNG, then bring it back to UK and take a weekend to NYC to take care of all this, you wont HAVE to pay any VAT or taxes...

 

[duckwebber]

Hi all, this is me reporting back after I''ve picked up my e-ring from Singapore. In a nutshell - could not be happier! As the diamond had already been set, I am unable to closely inspect the abrasions/bruise that were noted on the pavillion facets by the gemologist. However, it doesnt really matter anymore! Eye clean and mind clean! The diamond is beautiful and the setting is just perfect - would definitely recommend the jeweller i used in Singapore. Also very pleased with the customer sevice Jon extended, he was very reasonable and fair throughout. Whilst I must say it was rather traumatic given my logistical complications, it all worked out really well in the end. Big thank you to everyone who offered me advice!!

 

[Ellen]

Pics would be nice.

 

[kennethoka]

After reading this thread, I start to worry my stone which I just got from GOG.