Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Help! Diamond purchased but appraisal not good!

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
D

duckwebber

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
29
Hi wonder if some experts here can help me. I recently purchased a diamond over the internet (from a reputable seller) and brought it to an independent appraiser for a verbal appraisal simply to match the diamond to the accompanying GIA cert. Whilst the size, colour and clarity were matched, the appraiser noted quite a few abrasions and also a bruise on one of the pavillion facets and conclued that based on these, it was impossible for GIA to grade this as ideal. The cert stated Ex/Ex/Ex and was dated Nov 06. He thinks its either an old diamond or has been mishandled since the grading. What are my options? The seller has a full refund (less shipping) policy, but should I accept or return it? Is the GIA cert date too old and not relevant anymore? Or is the appraisal just doing his job? Just worries me that he disputes the cut/polish of the diamond based on his observations. Any help/advice much appreciated!
 
Hi Duck-

I am no professional, so this is only my opinion. I would strongly question if it was a used diamond. That would explain the possible mishandling of the stone. It may have been previously owned and damaged during wear or while removing it from a setting prior to re-selling it to you. I know several stones are graded and may not sell for some time, So the Nov. 06 dated GIA cert doesn''t really worry me. I would say if these discrepancies worry you, you have two options. 1, have someone ELSE appraise it, don''t tell them what the other appraiser said, and see if they draw the same conclusions. Or 2, return the stone and keep looking. Are you attached to this stone? Are you looking to keep it or will it go through an eventual upgrade process? I only ask because the GIA cert discrepancy could become an issue on an upgrade IF you trade this stone in. Just my 2 cents on the issue. See what other advice you get and let us know what you are going to do!!
1.gif
 
If there is some huge discrepancy between the diamond you have and its paperwork and what the vendor sold you I would certainly return the stone... where did you purchase ths diamond, btw? Not being nosy, just trying to get more details so we can help you more.
 
The bottom line for me would be that the stone is tarnished in my mind. I simply want what I paid for would be my attitude. I would definitely return it simply for piece of mind given the condition of the stone. Likewise, I would make sure to inform the vendor as to why it's being returned and have them look for another stone for you. I own a small business myself and it is the price of doing business. Most likely they'd be excited that you still want to do business with them and they will take care of you.
 
If the appraisal does not match the quality of what you thought you were buying, then I would want to return it...
 
Date: 2/27/2008 8:50:35 AM
Author: Diamond*Dana
If the appraisal does not match the quality of what you thought you were buying, then I would want to return it...
Click to expand...

ditto. Or if you really love the diamond and how it performs, I would expect to get some of the purchase price back.
 
Date: 2/27/2008 8:50:35 AM
Author: Diamond*Dana
If the appraisal does not match the quality of what you thought you were buying, then I would want to return it...
Click to expand...
Ditto.
 
Date: 2/27/2008 2:38:24 AM
Author:duckwebber
Hi wonder if some experts here can help me. I recently purchased a diamond over the internet (from a reputable seller) and brought it to an independent appraiser for a verbal appraisal simply to match the diamond to the accompanying GIA cert. Whilst the size, colour and clarity were matched, the appraiser noted quite a few abrasions and also a bruise on one of the pavillion facets and conclued that based on these, it was impossible for GIA to grade this as ideal. The cert stated Ex/Ex/Ex and was dated Nov 06. He thinks its either an old diamond or has been mishandled since the grading. What are my options? The seller has a full refund (less shipping) policy, but should I accept or return it? Is the GIA cert date too old and not relevant anymore? Or is the appraisal just doing his job? Just worries me that he disputes the cut/polish of the diamond based on his observations. Any help/advice much appreciated!
Click to expand...
I didn''t think GIA used the term ''Ideal''. Who said it was Ideal?
 
Talk to the dealer about it. I presume you’ve already talked to the appraiser about it, what did they recommend? If the stone has been damaged since the date of lab inspection then the lab report isn’t valid any more. By the way, it sounds like your appraiser did more than match it to the report. He/she graded it. Did they confirm that they thought it was the same stone described by GIA?

The dealer may be able to send the stone back to GIA and get a current report. This would remove all speculation about what GIA might call it and replace it with what GIA did call it. If it’s different then you should be entitled to a discount or a refund as you wish. If you don’t love it enough to go through the trouble, collect a refund and pick a different stone.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Date: 2/27/2008 8:50:35 AM
Author: Diamond*Dana
If the appraisal does not match the quality of what you thought you were buying, then I would want to return it...
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
If you had to ask then it's already too late. Meaning that if you felt the need to question your stone and seek advice then there are some big doubts in your mind. I would talk to your vendor and see what can be done about this. Likewise, don't worry about returning something and not wanting to upset anyone. You need to be satisfied given the level of money that these items cost.
 
Sorry I was not clear enough. The stone was verified to be what the GIA cert said, it is 1.5, D/VS1 - the appraiser confirmed that. The GIA also states this is an Ex/Ex/Ex cut diamond but the appraiser said that based on the numerous abrasions and 1 bruise he found on the pavillion, he thinks (in his own words) it is IMPOSSIBLE GIA would have graded the polish as Excellent. He had no disputes on the cut/symmetry. These ''flaws'' are not visible to the naked eye. I guess my options are (i) return and look for another stone or (ii) accept and ask for a discount? What is the price difference between a polish of Ex and VG grade? This is by one of the top PS vendors.
 
I was told by thar abrasions and bruises are common with mis-handling and a simple polish should bring it back to Excellent grading - is that true or just an excuse from the vendor? Is a bruise same as a chip? Why should I buy a diamond and still be expected to polish it so it is of the quality I supposedly paid for? And after polishing, I need to bring it back for another appraisal? What if the results are still the same? Lots of wasted money then, and you would think buying online is a cheaper, more value-for-money option!
 
A lab report states what the grader at the laboratory observed to be the characteristics and condition of the diamond "at the time of grading" and it is possible for the grade of a diamond to change if it is worn, mishandled, dropped, pressed to hard against other diamonds in the parcel, etc. - which is why it is a good idea to have the characteristics of the diamond verified by an independent gemologist at the time of purchase.

I assume that the additional abrasions were not indicated on the lab report... Sometimes it can be difficult to see small feathers that are located on the girdle edge. I actually evaluated a diamond the other day where the red indicator for the feather was located on the outer edge of the plotting diagram in parallel to the outer edge of the plotting diagram, I would have missed the symbol entirely if I hadn''t used a loupe to look at the original lab report - not kidding, the mark was that small.

Do you know whether the vendor you worked with had personally evaluated the diamond prior to having it shipped to you? Some vendors personally inspect everything that they sell and others drop ship from their suppliers without ever seeing the diamond. If the vendor saw the diamond prior to shipping it to you, they are more likely to be able to discuss the characteristics of the diamond with you. If the diamond was drop shipped to you by their supplier, then the vendor is likely to be in the dark.

Either way, I think you''ll find that most of the dealers here on PS are extremely interested in maintaining "Happy Clients" as opposed to making single sales, the odds are that this vendor wouldn''t want you to be dissatisfied in any way with your purchase. You should contact them and discuss the gemologists findings with them before much more time passes, things like this are usually better addressed sooner rather than later.
 
I understand I have the option of sending it back for re-polishing or accept a cash reimbursement equal to the cost of re-polishing. I came across this thread titled "Fix it or Forget it" by kenny and find myself in the exact same situation. If the stone came back from re-polishing with polished lines as well, I will be seriously upset (not that I am not already). I am quite sure the abrasions are from mis-handling, given its my first internet purchase and I thought i picked a really top vendor, i am very disappointed. I can live with the abrasions, but I dont want to live with this unpleasant experience, esp since this is going to be my engagement ring
7.gif
i wil try and negotiate for a price adjustment - difference of Ex and VG polish. But im not prepared to go through the hassle of a GIA re-grading. Im halfway across the world and its just not worth the back and forth. Besides I am going to need a ring, its already been 3months since the engagement.. and I thought I was holding out for the best
7.gif
Feel very resigned, is all I can say!
 
I would return it... you''re not happy with it. I wouldn''t be either. Who sold you this diamond?
 
I would return the stone as well. It will always be tarnished in your mind.
 
Jonathan from GOG. I am going to ask if he will make a price adjustment on it. At the moment, he is only offering U$500 (the cost of re-polishing). The appraiser was even reluctant to call it a VG for Polish, he said he feels more comfortable with G. He does not recommend a re-polishing as that would most definitely result in weight loss as almost all the facets on the pavillion need work which would require a GIA re-certification. GIven that this was an Isee2 diamond as well, I wonder if considering the existing condition, it can no longer qualify as Isee2. Wouldnt that affect the value of the diamond even more? What do you think is a reasonable price adjustment?
 
Isee2 is a brand and that brand carries a premium. If you have it repolished and regraded, it will no longer be the same report # and, depending on how much polishing is required it may no longer have the Isee2 little logo on the crown. This would make it no longer an Isee2 stone. As mentioned above, if the weight changes then the GIA report will no longer be applicable. It’s possible that Isee2 can do the polishing and can reissue their paperwork on the final stone and the dealer can help you with that if it’s a choice. Ask.

Take it back to the dealer and let him deal with it. There’s a bit of a chore here and deciding details like what sorts of repairs are required, what the potential weight loss might be and if the tradeoff is worth it and what sorts of documentation needs to be redone are remarkably complicated questions and that’s part of what the dealer is there for.

In answer to your ‘value’ question, it depends on your definition of value. Most appraisals are defining value as the appropriate budget to replace the stone with another like it in the case of a loss. This would include things like the x/x/x from GIA and the Isee2 branding as well as the condition at the time the policy is written. Replacing an x/x/x/isee2 will generally cost more than replacing either an x/g/vg/Isee2 or a slightly smaller x/x/x/GIA.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Date: 2/28/2008 9:29:17 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Isee2 is a brand and that brand carries a premium. If you have it repolished and regraded, it will no longer be the same report # and, depending on how much polishing is required it may no longer have the Isee2 little logo on the crown. This would make it no longer an Isee2 stone. As mentioned above, if the weight changes then the GIA report will no longer be applicable. It’s possible that Isee2 can do the polishing and can reissue their paperwork on the final stone and the dealer can help you with that if it’s a choice. Ask.

Take it back to the dealer and let him deal with it. There’s a bit of a chore here and deciding details like what sorts of repairs are required, what the potential weight loss might be and if the tradeoff is worth it and what sorts of documentation needs to be redone are remarkably complicated questions and that’s part of what the dealer is there for.

In answer to your ‘value’ question, it depends on your definition of value. Most appraisals are defining value as the appropriate budget to replace the stone with another like it in the case of a loss. This would include things like the x/x/x from GIA and the Isee2 branding as well as the condition at the time the policy is written. Replacing an x/x/x/isee2 will generally cost more than replacing either an x/g/vg/Isee2 or a slightly smaller x/x/x/GIA.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
Click to expand...
just an fyi Jon doesnt charge a premium for the isee2 brand over his other top end h&a diamonds.
My first question is does the person who did the appraisal sell diamonds?
The entire pavilion being messed up does not sound right too me.
I second sending the stone back too gog and letting him look it over then discuss options.
Franky since its a round id just trade it in on another stone.
Kenny''s stone was a different story as there is not another diamond close too it available.
 
I would return it. It''s a high quality stone as a D/VS1, probably costly, and it should not have the marks you describe. Maybe this stone was previously set and then removed from the mounting causing it damage. Who knows, but if it were me, I would not make it my problem.

This is why buying from a reputable dealer with a good return policy is so important. I am sure you will be able to return it easily and get a more suitable stone.
 
My question is...is a 500 to 1000 refund worth not having the diamond you want and knowing something is wrong with it?? RETURN IT! REPLACE IT! And love the new stone knowing it is WHAT YOU WANTED. GOG is great and will take it back and get you a new one. Why settle for anything else than what you want.
 
I too was going to ask if the appraiser you used also sold stones/jewelry? If so, you need to go to an INDEPENDENT APPRAISER STAT, before doing anything else.

Also, you mention what the appraiser "found" but you dont say YOU saw these flaws as well. I''ve never in my life heard of a "bruise" on a stone. Chips, abrasions, etc., yes. But "bruise" seems an odd term to use and makes me wary of the appraisal.

Jon is excellent and has a stellar reputation. I wonder if this stone was in his inventory or if he got it from another source. Either way, it sounds like it''s going to be a headache and I''d return it and move on.
 
It sounds to me that the whole process of receiving some compensation for the fact that the stone is bruised or from the polishing reducing the weight is a bit too complicated to pull off. These sort of things are subjective and whos to say that you''d be getting what you deserve. Jon from GOG is a as good as they come in terms of taking care of his customers. I''m 100% sure that he can either put your questions to rest or find you a new stone when you send your current one back to him.
 
The appraiser i used is independent so he has no incentive to give a negative report. Im really surprised the Polish changed so dramatically according to the appraiser (from Ex to G) considering Jonathan said he purchased it as an Ex although it might have been sometime back so mishandling is a big possibility. The reason why I have not said anything about what I saw in the diamond is because I have not seen it. This makes my problem even trickier as having no access to the diamond, I cannot judge how serious the abrasions/bruise are. I ordered the diamond when I was in Singapore, my home country and since then returned to the UK where I work, so I left instructions for a family member to accept delivery, get it appraised and then take it to the jeweller where I had already chosen a design for setting. I am due back in April to pick it up all set and done (so I thought). Given the reputation of GOG, I really didnt expect to have a problem like that. The reason why I would consider accepting on a price adjustment is because the other qualities were closely matched so only the Polish has been compromised (although its apparently 2 notches down... VG would have been less of an issue). I am also upset I cant even eyeball the stone myself. So even if I accept it with a discount, I could still be in for a shock when I finally see it in April.
 
Why cant the appraiser email you close up photos? Doesn''t Jon have any photos he can send to you? And you can post here? it''s really difficult to see and comment without seeing it..
 
I would also like too see the grading report if its still up on the gog website can you post a link?
 
Let me ask you this, can you deal with all the questions you have about the stone you purchased? Even with an explanation from GoG?
 
Date: 2/28/2008 12:29:50 PM
Author: surfgirl
I've never in my life heard of a 'bruise' on a stone. Chips, abrasions, etc., yes. But 'bruise' seems an odd term to use and makes me wary of the appraisal.
Click to expand...

A "bruise" is the diamond grading equivalent of "door ding." It's the term for damage that results from something--usually another diamond--striking the stone hard enough to create a tiny impact crater.

You likely haven't heard the term because it's not someting you see very often. But it is a standard term.
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top