Help and Opinions

[purrfectpear]

"men are different...."

Oh puhleeze. A man who was intent on marrying KitKat wouldn''t be sending whiny letters "asking" to see her, he''d have already been to the jewelers and would be standing on her doorstep pounding on the door yelling "I''ve got the ring, I love you, Open the door, Forgive me!!!"

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 4/29/2009 12:07:39 PM
Author: purrfectpear
'men are different....'


Oh puhleeze. A man who was intent on marrying KitKat wouldn't be sending whiny letters 'asking' to see her, he'd have already been to the jewelers and would be standing on her doorstep pounding on the door yelling 'I've got the ring, I love you, Open the door, Forgive me!!!'

At least he did send some sort of letter (after he was told not to do so), which means he might still want to work things out.

Some people run into a problem and make the mistake of seeing things just from their point of view (and acting accordingly). They only consider the impact on their feelings and think about their own situation without putting themselves in the other person's shoes, if only for a little while. I'm not saying this is the case with KatKat, but it's something that affects a lot of people.

Now, we don't know if this guy really intended to marry KatKat at some point. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. If he did, but then KatKat confronted him at the wrong time and just ended their seven-year relationship like it was no big deal, he might have started wondering whether this girl really loved him that much to begin with. I don't know about you, but if my SO would end our relationship right before I go on a two-week trip in which I won't be able to contact him at all, I would feel very very very angry and disappointed. That's just cruel. If this person really cared about my feelings and sanity and really loved me, he should not make me suffer and worry like that. And, when I got back from that trip, I would have a hard time running after him to try to solve whatever problem got us into this mess. But, that's just me. Then, again, unless KatKat agrees to talk to him, she won't be able to find out whether things are still fixable.

ETA: I like this proverb: "Some people make things happen, some watch things happen, while others wonder what has happened." Just because your SO is not the first type doesn't mean you have to be the same.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 4/29/2009 1:31:23 PM
Author: RubyCharm

Date: 4/29/2009 12:07:39 PM
Author: purrfectpear
''men are different....''


Oh puhleeze. A man who was intent on marrying KitKat wouldn''t be sending whiny letters ''asking'' to see her, he''d have already been to the jewelers and would be standing on her doorstep pounding on the door yelling ''I''ve got the ring, I love you, Open the door, Forgive me!!!''

At least he did send some sort of letter (after he was told not to do so), which means he might still want to work things out.

Some people run into a problem and make the mistake of seeing things just from their point of view (and acting accordingly). They only consider the impact on their feelings and think about their own situation without putting themselves in the other person''s shoes, if only for a little while. I''m not saying this is the case with KatKat, but it''s something that affects a lot of people.

Now, we don''t know if this guy really intended to marry KatKat at some point. Maybe he did, maybe he didn''t. If he did, but then KatKat confronted him at the wrong time and just ended their seven-year relationship like it was no big deal, he might have started wondering whether this girl really loved him that much to begin with. I don''t know about you, but if my SO would end our relationship right before I go on a two-week trip in which I won''t be able to contact him at all, I would feel very very very angry and disappointed. That''s just cruel. If this person really cared about my feelings and sanity and really loved me, he should not make me suffer and worry like that. And, when I got back from that trip, I would have a hard time running after him to try to solve whatever problem got us into this mess. But, that''s just me. Then, again, unless KatKat agrees to talk to him, she won''t be able to find out whether things are still fixable.

He could have married her before the trip, and the company would pay for them to travel together. He could have proposed before the trip, or let her know that it was imminent upon his return, but he didn''t want to propose and be apart for 2 weeks. He could have been honest with her and said I have no proposal plans, now or in the future. He has no one to be upset at besides himself. KatKat did not do this out of the blue, they talked about it for a long time. This was not a surprise break up, it was actually more like a mutually agreed upon one. Either both of us want to be together forever, or not. She choose ''yes'', he choose ''I don''t know''. Both were decisions. He is not a vicitim, and clearly, neither is Katkat, because she walked.


Bad@$$!

 

[purrfectpear]

You''re right RubyCharm, you could encourage this guy to "get his feelings out" and "hold his hand" through HIS issues.

But seriously, why? Let''s say he''s all ready to do now what he should have done before. So you''re suggesting she sign on for a lifetime of propping him up? Because that''s what it''s going to take. If he can''t man up now, he''s not going to magically man up for future crisis or major decisions that life might throw his way. Weak is weak. Wishy-washy is wishy-washy, and people like that will always fail to rise to the occasion.

I get that you think a "fixable" guy is better than no guy, but some women have more self respect.

 

[mrscushion]

Couldn''t disagree with you more, RubyCharm. I don''t think KatKat acted in a cruel way. He knew this was coming. He could have spoken up, a month or two weeks prior and said, "Look, I don''t think I''ll be able to take the engagement step before I take the trip -- let''s talk about it." Even if he wasn''t ready to get engaged, he could still have acted in a proactive, emotionally mature fashion, but he did not. That is cruel.

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 4/29/2009 2:24:39 PM
Author: purrfectpear
You're right RubyCharm, you could encourage this guy to 'get his feelings out' and 'hold his hand' through HIS issues.


But seriously, why? Let's say he's all ready to do now what he should have done before. So you're suggesting she sign on for a lifetime of propping him up? Because that's what it's going to take. If he can't man up now, he's not going to magically man up for future crisis or major decisions that life might throw his way. Weak is weak. Wishy-washy is wishy-washy, and people like that will always fail to rise to the occasion.


I get that you think a 'fixable' guy is better than no guy, but some women have more self respect.

I totally disagree. Once weak, always weak. Nice philosophy, so I guess you don't think "mistakes make you stronger." I guess you don't believe that some people can actually learn a thing or two from their mistakes and become a better person. IMO, that's way too narrow-minded.

I never said or implied that I think that a "fixable" guy is better than no guy. All I've been saying all along is that if there are no other major problems in this relationship and they still love each other, then they might be able to work things out if KatKat agrees to talk to him. Why is that considered a lack of self respect? If you think I have no self respect for thinking this way, so be it. I honestly couldn't care less. It's not like he didn't contact her at all and now she is trying to reach out to him. He did contact her. All I'm saying is: if she still loves him and wants to work things out with him, then why not talk to him. He might not be that proactive in this particular situation. So, she can be the proactive one in this case. However, if he doesn't mean that much to her, if he's not worth all this "hassle," then she should walk.

If she thinks this guy is not the ONE, then by all means move on and be a bad@$$ (I already said this before, read my first post). I'm not advocating that she stay with a "fixable" guy that has disappointed her to the extent that their relationship won't be balanced again. However, I do think you can be more patient and tolerant when you've really found somebody who you love for real (which doesn't necessarily mean that you've lost your self-respect).

 

[tlh]

we are who we are - down to the core. There is no such thing as a "fixable" guy. If he doesn''t want to get married, no amount of glue, duct tape, etc will hold it together. Katkat''s man humpty dumptied.

7 years is long enough to spend with someone to know if you want them to be apart of your tomorrow. 7 years is long enough to know if you want this someone to be a married partner. If she wants a HUSBAND and he wants to remain just as PARTNERS, this can be a deal breaker.

Just like the egg. Marriage can be the heat that cooks the egg. So if Humpty Dumpty was a hardboiled egg... he could have fallen off that wall in tact. But katkat''s man didn''t want to cook for her. So when he fell off the ledge, he went SPLAT!

 

[purrfectpear]

"A" mistake (as in one time) can make you stronger.

Repeating that mistake makes you stupid. KitKat''s guy kept making the same mistake so clearly he was an exceptionally "slow" learner

He made the mistake. He''s not learning from it. He''s still whining. I see no commitment, no action, just more lips flappin'' in the breeze.

Talk is cheap. When he puts himself out there and shows up on the door step begging for forgiveness with ring in hand, then she can decide if there''s anything she feels like discussing. After her being the only "proactive" one for seven long years, I think he can carry the ball on this one.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I hope you're doing well, KitKat!

When I left my then-boyfriend, now-husband, he reached out to me via letters, email, etc. because he was weak and selfish. Not my words, those are his. He had to man up by himself, no amount of "support" was going to help.

I promise it gets easier! Thinking of you!

 

[purselover]

Date: 4/29/2009 4:43:50 PM
Author: purrfectpear
''A'' mistake (as in one time) can make you stronger.

Repeating that mistake makes you stupid. KitKat''s guy kept making the same mistake so clearly he was an exceptionally ''slow'' learner

He made the mistake. He''s not learning from it. He''s still whining. I see no commitment, no action, just more lips flappin'' in the breeze.

Talk is cheap. When he puts himself out there and shows up on the door step begging for forgiveness with ring in hand, then she can decide if there''s anything she feels like discussing. After her being the only ''proactive'' one for seven long years, I think he can carry the ball on this one.

agreed

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 4/29/2009 4:43:50 PM
Author: purrfectpear
'A' mistake (as in one time) can make you stronger.


Repeating that mistake makes you stupid. KitKat's guy kept making the same mistake so clearly he was an exceptionally 'slow' learner

He made the mistake. He's not learning from it. He's still whining. I see no commitment, no action, just more lips flappin' in the breeze.


Talk is cheap. When he puts himself out there and shows up on the door step begging for forgiveness with ring in hand, then she can decide if there's anything she feels like discussing. After her being the only 'proactive' one for seven long years, I think he can carry the ball on this one.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but how many deadlines did this guy miss? Two, three, four, more? According to the information that KatKat has posted in this thread, I can only see that he missed one deadline. I know 7 years is a long time, but some relationships take longer to transition into the married stage. Katkat herself said that they both made mistakes in the past, so you don't know what obstacles they both had to overcome to even get to this point (in short: it's not like she said that she's been ready to get married for the whole 7 years).

Also, it amazes me how you can say with so much certainty that KatKat has been the proactive one for the entire relationship. Unless you know KatKat in person and have witnessed what type of relationship she's had with her man, I don't think you're qualified to make that statement. She herself admitted that she's made mistakes as well (see her first post), and you don't know the other side of the story.

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/29/2009 2:43:43 PM
Author: mscushion
Couldn''t disagree with you more, RubyCharm. I don''t think KatKat acted in a cruel way. He knew this was coming. He could have spoken up, a month or two weeks prior and said, ''Look, I don''t think I''ll be able to take the engagement step before I take the trip -- let''s talk about it.'' Even if he wasn''t ready to get engaged, he could still have acted in a proactive, emotionally mature fashion, but he did not. That is cruel.

ditto mscushion and PP. I don''t think it was ended in a cruel way either. I think if he acted like an adult he would have come to her and let her know prior to his going away that he wasn''t going to do it. To leave it until the last minute is awful.

 

[bubbly1126]

Now, I know all you ladies know that everyone can have different opinions. Why do we all feel the need to bash another persons advice? Why can''t we all just give our opinions to the OP and have her weed out herself what is irrelevant?


KatKat, go with your heart sweetheart. Only you know what risks are worth taking. You''ll figure it out all in good time. The best of luck to you!

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 4/29/2009 6:35:46 PM
Author: inhisarms17
Now, I know all you ladies know that everyone can have different opinions. Why do we all feel the need to bash another persons advice? Why can''t we all just give our opinions to the OP and have her weed out herself what is irrelevant?



KatKat, go with your heart sweetheart. Only you know what risks are worth taking. You''ll figure it out all in good time. The best of luck to you!

You are right. If I ever offended anyone with my posts, I apologize. I know a lot of you might not agree with my point of view, but it''s just that: one person''s point of view. I usually like to keep my opinions to myself, but this time I felt the need to share them with KatKat since the advice in this thread was so one-sided (sometimes it''s helpful to look at things from a different angle, even if you disagree).

 

[LaurenThePartier]

Date: 4/29/2009 2:10:22 PM
Author: trillionaire

Date: 4/29/2009 1:31:23 PM
Author: RubyCharm

Date: 4/29/2009 12:07:39 PM
Author: purrfectpear
'men are different....'


Oh puhleeze. A man who was intent on marrying KitKat wouldn't be sending whiny letters 'asking' to see her, he'd have already been to the jewelers and would be standing on her doorstep pounding on the door yelling 'I've got the ring, I love you, Open the door, Forgive me!!!'

At least he did send some sort of letter (after he was told not to do so), which means he might still want to work things out.

Some people run into a problem and make the mistake of seeing things just from their point of view (and acting accordingly). They only consider the impact on their feelings and think about their own situation without putting themselves in the other person's shoes, if only for a little while. I'm not saying this is the case with KatKat, but it's something that affects a lot of people.

Now, we don't know if this guy really intended to marry KatKat at some point. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. If he did, but then KatKat confronted him at the wrong time and just ended their seven-year relationship like it was no big deal, he might have started wondering whether this girl really loved him that much to begin with. I don't know about you, but if my SO would end our relationship right before I go on a two-week trip in which I won't be able to contact him at all, I would feel very very very angry and disappointed. That's just cruel. If this person really cared about my feelings and sanity and really loved me, he should not make me suffer and worry like that. And, when I got back from that trip, I would have a hard time running after him to try to solve whatever problem got us into this mess. But, that's just me. Then, again, unless KatKat agrees to talk to him, she won't be able to find out whether things are still fixable.

He could have married her before the trip, and the company would pay for them to travel together. He could have proposed before the trip, or let her know that it was imminent upon his return, but he didn't want to propose and be apart for 2 weeks. He could have been honest with her and said I have no proposal plans, now or in the future. He has no one to be upset at besides himself. KatKat did not do this out of the blue, they talked about it for a long time. This was not a surprise break up, it was actually more like a mutually agreed upon one. Either both of us want to be together forever, or not. She choose 'yes', he choose 'I don't know'. Both were decisions. He is not a vicitim, and clearly, neither is Katkat, because she walked.


Bad@$$!

I just found KatKat's thread, and I hope everything is ok.

My husband and I were in a similar situation, except we had a deadline to be engaged by the end of the year we ended up getting married in. His work had an opportunity for him said I could come so long as we were married, and he called WF the next day to get the ball rolling on an engagement ring.

Before then, he had been the "why the rush?" and "why do we need a piece of paper to tell the world we love each other?" kind of guy.

I think you absolutely did the right thing, because if he really had wanted to be with you, knowing an impending deadline was looking, he would have bought the ring as soon as he could scrape the money together. We all just want to see how you are doing, and we're all wishing you good thoughts.

 

[lulu]

The good news is that katkat has moved on with her life.

 

[katkat]

Wow....things got pretty heated around here this week. Just caught up with all the replies. I had a HELL work week and another coming up. So...of course more email. I''ll spare the details...you can imagine all it said. There is one major issue religious issue that was always an issue but I thought he had made peace with. Evidently not as this is his reason or EXCUSE for not asking. He is so inconsistent in his emails....it''s all sad to read because as much as it feels good to know he misses me, etc. it hurts like hell that he can''t just MAN UP and make something happen. I realize it has only been a month....but I do believe there is a point of no return.

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 5/1/2009 9:48:33 PM
Author: katkat
Wow....things got pretty heated around here this week. Just caught up with all the replies. I had a HELL work week and another coming up. So...of course more email. I''ll spare the details...you can imagine all it said. There is one major issue religious issue that was always an issue but I thought he had made peace with. Evidently not as this is his reason or EXCUSE for not asking. He is so inconsistent in his emails....it''s all sad to read because as much as it feels good to know he misses me, etc. it hurts like hell that he can''t just MAN UP and make something happen. I realize it has only been a month....but I do believe there is a point of no return.

Please, disregard all of my posts. If he''s playing the religion card in a moment like this, that''s not the type of guy that I thought he might be. That''s why I always emphasized in my previous posts that my opinion was based on the assumption that there were no other major problems in the relationship

. You are the only one who really knows what''s best for you. Good luck, keep busy, and be strong!

 

[Porridge]

Date: 5/1/2009 10:36:47 PM
Author: RubyCharm
Please, disregard all of my posts. If he''s playing the religion card in a moment like this, that''s not the type of guy that I thought he might be. That''s why I always emphasized in my previous posts that my opinion was based on the assumption that there were no other major problems in the relationship

. You are the only one who really knows what''s best for you. Good luck, keep busy, and be strong!

Rubycharm, we know your posts came out of a good place, and I agree it''s definitely good to see the other side of the story. Sometimes it feels that if things aren''t absolutely perfect, all the time that we should run immediately if we have any hope of a dignified life. I know that''s not what anyone means, but it''s good to hear it said that someone can slip up once in a while, and it can turn out ok.

KatKat, I''m sorry to hear how he''s behaving. I hope things are getting a little easier for you.

 

[House Cat]

Date: 4/29/2009 12:07:39 PM
Author: purrfectpear
''men are different....''

Oh puhleeze. A man who was intent on marrying KitKat wouldn''t be sending whiny letters ''asking'' to see her, he''d have already been to the jewelers and would be standing on her doorstep pounding on the door yelling ''I''ve got the ring, I love you, Open the door, Forgive me!!!''

Ditto. And now he''s pulling the religion card? It seems he''s trying to find anything to further stall.

Katkat,

What you have done takes a lot of courage. I must ask, if he WERE to propose tomorrow, to fulfill exactly what PP has posted above, would it be tainted for you because you had to leave him first? Your answer to this question should probably determine whether or not you should continue to entertain communication with him.

The fact of the matter is, his own reasons are holding him back. That''s really too bad for him. I can see that you are pretty extraordinary.

Take care..

 

[bee*]

I''m sorry to hear that he''s now playing another card katkat. He really does need to man up or just stop with the emails. Sending hugs to you. Good luck with hell week in work!

 

[Rhea]

It sounds like you''re staying strong and keeping busy! Good luck!

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 5/1/2009 9:48:33 PM
Author: katkat
Wow....things got pretty heated around here this week. Just caught up with all the replies. I had a HELL work week and another coming up. So...of course more email. I''ll spare the details...you can imagine all it said. There is one major issue religious issue that was always an issue but I thought he had made peace with. Evidently not as this is his reason or EXCUSE for not asking. He is so inconsistent in his emails....it''s all sad to read because as much as it feels good to know he misses me, etc. it hurts like hell that he can''t just MAN UP and make something happen. I realize it has only been a month....but I do believe there is a point of no return.

Sorry to hear your work week was rough, katkat. Sounds like between this and the hair-pullingly annoying excuses your ex is now giving you, you deserve a bit of a treat...

 

[brooklyngirl]

It really sucks that after all these years he''s playing the religion card. I do wonder, what exactly he is hoping to get out of all this contact. If he isn''t planning to marry you, what''s the point?

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 5/3/2009 7:40:57 PM
Author: brooklyngirl
It really sucks that after all these years he''s playing the religion card. I do wonder, what exactly he is hoping to get out of all this contact. If he isn''t planning to marry you, what''s the point?

Ego stroking. He doesn''t want to start a new relationship all over if he can get this to keep going. His motivation would be companionship, habit, sex, etc. and he doesn''t have to put forth the effort in building the same with someone new.

 

[Mediterranean]

Date: 5/3/2009 7:40:57 PM
Author: brooklyngirl
It really sucks that after all these years he''s playing the religion card. I do wonder, what exactly he is hoping to get out of all this contact. If he isn''t planning to marry you, what''s the point?

After reading the entire thread, I think my guess would be that his "point" (if you could call it that, because I kind of don''t think it''s terribly valid...more like, "tactic" is a better word?)

His "point" or "tactic" would be to keep her right where he wants her: in the PERMANENT GIRLFRIEND slot. Bringing up the issue regarding religion is another aspect of the "tactic." The implication appears to be that he is trying to depict their religious differences as some sort of "flaw" that KatKat has, which is patently false.

It looks as though the history of the relationship shows a pattern of disregard for the plans KatKat has for her entire life, in favor this man preserving his "comfort level" rearding the amount of commitment he''s willing to make.

Not fair. I think KatKat, that you did the right thing calling foul on this behavior. It''s heartbreaking because he may not even realize that his issues tanked this relationship, but it cant be your problem anymore. You deserve so much better than that kind of treatment.

 

[brooklyngirl]

PP, Med, I see what you''re saying there. If you look at it that way, oh so insulting. Where''s that barfing emotie when you need it?

Kat, it seems that the more details we find out, the worse he looks. I hope you start feeling better, and stronger soon.
Seven years is a long time to wait for lame ass excuses!

 

[katkat]

We met in the park today. I wanted to hear him out...face to face. I left more confused than ever. Seeing him was emotional but I stayed icy on the outside. His issue is valid...without getting into specifics it is a huge obstacle that I thought he had put aside. He said even he thought he could put it aside. I did some research unbeknownst to him and found out he is 100 percent right. His FLUB was not communicating this to me. He says he had been telling me and I had chosen not to listen(partially true) He said he wants to marry me, cannot imagine marrying anyone other than me. Says he wants a family asap. He is planning on meeting with my Dad this month. Wanted to have a diamond bought within a month. All of this struck me as sincere. My gripe is that he didn''t tell me his thoughts prior to his trip. He said he thought he''d lose me. Well......
he has. It was not warm and fuzzy when I left. I told him I needed time to digest all of it. And here I am ...digesting bada$$ in need of help and opinions

 

[brooklyngirl]

Hmm. So now he wants to marry you, and meet with your dad next month? If that''s the case, why is the religion issue on the table? It appears that the issue was not resolved, so how is he now moving forward with engagement?

 

[brooklyngirl]

So, he thought he''d lose you if he told you about his plans to propose later than what you agreed upon, but he didn''t think he would lose you by making you think that a proposal is not happening???

I''m sorry, but I''m not buying it. I know we don''t have the whole story, but something seems off about that, or I''m missing something (and I''ve read the entire thread). That''s one hell of a flub.