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Hello! 8ct

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8ctDream

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
11
Hello all! Recently back from a trip to Taipei/Hong Kong w/ the gf. Looked at beautiful diamonds from Graff and HW. Pricing was ultra high as expected but drool worthy.

Upon my arrival back to the states, I’ve been reading about HPHT diamonds (treatment) and curious to know about the most recent technology advances in this area of treated diamonds. I am looking at a 6-8 carat pear shape with D-F color, VS1-VVS1, excellent cut/ no bow tie etc.

I’ve been reading past posts but not much from 2018 and I know the technology changes fast in this arena.

What are your thoughts?
I’ve seen these diamonds in the 80-100k usd range...but have zero context in which to compare?

I’m here to learn and hopefully share with you my proposal, engagement and stories to come.

Thank you!

Ayo
 
8ctDream said:
Hello all! Recently back from a trip to Taipei/Hong Kong w/ the gf. Looked at beautiful diamonds from Graff and HW. Pricing was ultra high as expected but drool worthy.

Upon my arrival back to the states, I’ve been reading about HPHT diamonds (treatment) and curious to know about the most recent technology advances in this area of treated diamonds. I am looking at a 6-8 carat pear shape with D-F color, VS1-VVS1, excellent cut/ no bow tie etc.

I’ve been reading past posts but not much from 2018 and I know the technology changes fast in this arena.

What are your thoughts?
I’ve seen these diamonds in the 80-100k usd range...but have zero context in which to compare?

I’m here to learn and hopefully share with you my proposal, engagement and stories to come.

Thank you!

Ayo
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum :)

Does HPHT treatment mean you are considering Man Made Diamonds / Laboratory Grown Diamonds?

If that is the focus of your search, you will need to hit the Report Concern button on your post and ask for it to be moved to the Lab Grown Diamonds section of the forum (quick click-y link near the top of the forum) because Rockytalky is currently designated for Mined diamonds only.

If you do want MMD/LGD stones, check out August Vintage Inc's website - it is forum member Rhino's website and he can probably source some options for you.
 
HPHT = High Pressure, High Temperature. So mined diamond but HPHT for color. I guess they could apply it to Lab grown diamonds??? Would they
ever need to?

We usually only deal with natural, mined, unprocessed diamonds on this forum so dont know what the expertise would be around here on HPHT. We
do have trade members that probably have info on HPHT though.
 
tyty333 said:
HPHT = High Pressure, High Temperature. So mined diamond but HPHT for color. I guess they could apply it to Lab grown diamonds??? Would they
ever need to?

We usually only deal with natural, mined, unprocessed diamonds on this forum so dont know what the expertise would be around here on HPHT. We
do have trade members that probably have info on HPHT though.
Click to expand...
Many lab diamonds are made using hpht and a lot more are treated for color that way.
All of the whites are hpht treated last I heard.
Even the hpht grown ones are further hpht treated to drive off the color.
 
Thank you guys for the responses! Very much appreciated. As I go through this process - it's overwhelming from a sheer knowledge (and sometimes lack thereof) both online and in store. Several dealers have represented the following: All diamonds are sourced from mines, natural and then treated with the HPHT technology. Identical in composition but labeled as a "treated diamond". Has anyone heard of magnetic issues w/ HPHT and or overall brilliance?
 
Too speculative, IHMO.
 
8ctDream said:
Hello all! Recently back from a trip to Taipei/Hong Kong w/ the gf. Looked at beautiful diamonds from Graff and HW. Pricing was ultra high as expected but drool worthy.

Upon my arrival back to the states, I’ve been reading about HPHT diamonds (treatment) and curious to know about the most recent technology advances in this area of treated diamonds. I am looking at a 6-8 carat pear shape with D-F color, VS1-VVS1, excellent cut/ no bow tie etc.

I’ve been reading past posts but not much from 2018 and I know the technology changes fast in this arena.

What are your thoughts?
I’ve seen these diamonds in the 80-100k usd range...but have zero context in which to compare?

I’m here to learn and hopefully share with you my proposal, engagement and stories to come.

Thank you!

Ayo
Click to expand...
Buying a large treated diamond certainly can be a way to make a major statement at a relatively low cost. However, 80-100K is still a ton of money and most people would hesitate buying such a diamond if if was not lab certified as natural, untreated. But for some people it obviously does make sense. So there is a personal aspect that you have to decide for yourself that nobody can help you with very much, including how important future liquidity would be to you.

Those personal decisions aside, if you decide to go the HPHT route, you should set your sights on the best performing, most beautiful diamond possible. That not only entails cut quality (which the community here can definitely help you with), but also more nuanced issues like transparency. It is possible that the treatment process can have subtle impacts that could bear on whether you will get optimal brilliance and fire out of the diamond, even if cutting is top notch.

In other words, in addition to seeking opinions here on the forum, you would be well served by hiring a qualified, experienced, independent expert to assess the diamond before you are fully committed to the purchase. There are some excellent ones that participate here on the forum if you should want to avail yourself to them eventually. (this is of course good practice even if the diamond is untreated!).

I wish you good luck in your quest and I know that many people will be interested in following along and learning through your journey. Myself included!
 
8ctDream said:
Has anyone heard of magnetic issues w/ HPHT and or overall brilliance?
Click to expand...
i have not heard of magnetic issues with anything but some cvd man made diamonds due to metal contamination from the chamber and plasma process.
Some of the inclusions in some cvd diamonds are metallic.
I can't think of any way it would be an issue with hpht treated natural diamonds.
Transparency issues both external and internal to the diamond are a real possibility with hpht treated diamonds.
 
@Texas Leaguer thank you for the comments and suggestions for hiring someone with history and experience to help with this process.

I agree with you on all points mentioned above....it is personal preference and I’ve spoken with my lady who really doesn’t care for the size and bling (although trying on HW jewels 5-7ct sort of ruined us for expectation).

More reading and DD is needed! Any conferences/Conventions that you suggest I attend in 2019?

Thanks again.
 
I'm confused @8ctDream. If your lady is not into the size or bling of a HW 5-7ct then why are you looking at 8 carats, regardless if treated or not?
 
You should be able to get a nice 5 ct for 100K. There is only one conference I have ever heard of - 'Shopping' (attempted humour). The better known auctions and fairs will give you a wider view of the top of the market, and what is possible. However, this is quite a sport to pursue.

IHMO, might as well enjoy acquiring a personal taste in diamonds, while owning a fine one - purchased with a good upgrade policy (repurchase agreement with caveats).

A RBC is the simplest choice.
 
I must provide additional info to my statements.
While she isn’t necessarily asking for a large diamond, I feel it’s important as I only get one shot to present something phenomenal. Again, I have very little experience with both natural diamonds and “enhanced” HPHT diamonds. The broad range of 6-8 Ct is general at best, however it is within the range that we both got stars in our yes and want to propose with something that would otherwise be out of reach in the spec I’m seeking. When you speak of “upgrade policy” I’ve not heard of this before? Do these “upgrades” depreciate the existing diamond extensively?

For those who have spent time handling HPHT: what major differences did you see with naked eye? 10xmag? Likes? Dislikes?

Thank you
 
sorry @rockysalamander posted then saw your post. I do like those a lot though and again they have the size down!
 
Upgrade policies vary a great deal, so you will have to ask each company concerned...
Selling diamonds is quite not glamorous at best.
The gossip I hear of the treated is beyond what I ever wish to know about .(
 
Last edited:
Gossip? Pls share!
 
Most large stones are cut for weight retention. Very few are actually cut to maximise light performance across brilliance, fire and scintillation.
 
Unhappy numbers.

You will get to discuss such compromises, if an impressive diamond with either clarity or HPHT treatment comes up.

More seriously, I find it confusing that your choice is so far removed from what you say the intended wearer requires.

Over & out
 
8ctDream said:
I must provide additional info to my statements.
While she isn’t necessarily asking for a large diamond, I feel it’s important as I only get one shot to present something phenomenal. Again, I have very little experience with both natural diamonds and “enhanced” HPHT diamonds. The broad range of 6-8 Ct is general at best, however it is within the range that we both got stars in our yes and want to propose with something that would otherwise be out of reach in the spec I’m seeking. When you speak of “upgrade policy” I’ve not heard of this before? Do these “upgrades” depreciate the existing diamond extensively?

For those who have spent time handling HPHT: what major differences did you see with naked eye? 10xmag? Likes? Dislikes?

Thank you
Click to expand...
Most of the vendors in the super ideal realm offer specific trade-up benefits, usually providing 100% stored credit for the original purchase. There is some variation in terms of the requirements on the new diamond to be traded up to, some merchant policies are very liberal while others are more restrictive. You can check their websites for published specifics.

One of the restrictions is simply available inventory. If you start with a 1ct most vendors offering trade up benefits will have ample inventory of bigger and/or better diamonds in stock to move up to. But if you start in the 5ct range and anticipate an 8ct in the future, available options may be very limited!

However, most of the super ideal vendors also do custom cutting, so you could potentially achieve your ultimate goal going that route.
 
I think unless your intended Fiancé KNOWS and WANTS a giant treated diamond, walk away from that option. Personally I would be insulted. :snooty: I would prefer to receive a smaller, high quality, natural untreated diamond & if you have such a large budget - there are plenty of options available! Size isn’t everything...
 
HotPozzum said:
I think unless your intended Fiancé KNOWS and WANTS a giant treated diamond, walk away from that option. Personally I would be insulted. :snooty: I would prefer to receive a smaller, high quality, natural untreated diamond & if you have such a large budget - there are plenty of options available! Size isn’t everything...
Click to expand...

Agree with this 100%. What size is your intended's finger? I'm a 7.5, and I got rid of my 5.3ct stone, feeling it was too big. If, however, you did get a 5ct stone, and your fiancee's finger is a size 6.5 or smaller, it's going to look MASSIVE on her hand.

If 'OOMPH!' factor is what you're looking for, a colorless 4+ ct stone will have it, while an 8 ct treated diamond is just one more fakey. A mined, untreated 8ct colorless diamond will set you back roughly 3/4 of a mil., so unless you look like a couple who has that kind of money to drop on a diamond, it's going to scream treated or man-made to anyone who knows anything at all about diamonds.

Since the Kardashians, we all seem to have forgotten that a 4ct stone is a HUGE diamond. Trust me, unless she has hands like a trucker, 4 cts will look very big on her indeed!
 
8ctDream said:
I must provide additional info to my statements.
While she isn’t necessarily asking for a large diamond, I feel it’s important as I only get one shot to present something phenomenal. Again, I have very little experience with both natural diamonds and “enhanced” HPHT diamonds. The broad range of 6-8 Ct is general at best, however it is within the range that we both got stars in our yes and want to propose with something that would otherwise be out of reach in the spec I’m seeking. When you speak of “upgrade policy” I’ve not heard of this before? Do these “upgrades” depreciate the existing diamond extensively?

For those who have spent time handling HPHT: what major differences did you see with naked eye? 10xmag? Likes? Dislikes?

Thank you
Click to expand...
@8ctDream IMHO you are out of your mind even thinking about spending $100K on a ring you are expecting your lady to wear for the rest of her life without her 100% buy in on the ring and the purchase process. This advice comes from a man who knows marriage is all about shared decision making, and has been happily married for 37 years!

PS this is not the one shot to present something phenomenal. You are forgetting you and your wife have many wedding anniversaries to look forward to. First comes the 5 year, then 10 years, then 25 years etc etc. If you start off with an effing 8ct diamond what the heck are you going to get her after that!!!
 
You have a great budget. You can find a 4ct or 5ct stone which will sparkle like crazy, blinding others haha!

just an example:

https://www.rarecarat.com/c/a2917523-5790-438d-acd1-61294eb4e105

though I personally preferred the ones posted before


As she loves design I would focus on setting to WOW her. Do you know what diamond shape she wants and what setting she likes?
 
prs said:
@8ctDream IMHO you are out of your mind even thinking about spending $100K on a ring you are expecting your lady to wear for the rest of her life without her 100% buy in on the ring and the purchase process. This advice comes from a man who knows marriage is all about shared decision making, and has been happily married for 37 years!

PS this is not the one shot to present something phenomenal. You are forgetting you and your wife have many wedding anniversaries to look forward to. First comes the 5 year, then 10 years, then 25 years etc etc. If you start off with an effing 8ct diamond what the heck are you going to get her after that!!!
Click to expand...

Thanks for all of your concerns and Happy New Year!!!! To clarify - my lady is 100% ok with a treated diamond as long as she wasn't able to visually see the difference. Ideally we'd love to have a 7 carat ring that has all of the attributes that are ultra high quality spec.

Thank you for all of the advice and sensitivity regarding if the ring is too large or too big/gaudy/in your face etc. These concerns have been taken seriously and also I personally am OK with a 6-8 carat ring on her finger as well as her own delight. I like the idea of upgrading/trade in rings - starting at 5 carat but within the scope of what we are seeking - I see 200k as a floor price for a 5 carat untreated diamond with the spec that we are seeking. A HPHT treated 6 carat-7 carat near flawless spec is around 100k (my budget).
 
It's good that you are both on the same page and comfortable with the options - here on PS we are averse to 'clarity enhanced' and similar treated stones because of their poor quality and the risks associated with them, but I'm not personally knowledgable about Mined diamonds that have been HPHT treated to lift their colour grade, and how that might affect purchase and trade-in prices.

As long as you are making the decision in full awareness of all the options, that is the main thing one could hope for as a purchaser - 'buying blind' is a risky business.
 
Thought I’d share about upgrades because I’m in the situation now. My first diamond was 2 ct, upgraded at the 10 year mark to 3.3 ct. (selling a diamond is like buying a brand new Porsche, getting rear ended on the way home from the dealer, then trying to sell it again. The bottom completely drops out of it. It is exhausting and you lose a TON of money. I was fine taking the loss bc I fell in love with my 3.3 ct. Now that I’m on my 18th anniversary, I’m upgrading again to a 5 ct. My style has changed over the years from princess to round. Having been on the sale side of a diamond, I cannot fathom how near impossible it will be to ever resell an HPHT diamond. We have the same budget and I’m looking at 5ct. G/H color stones. My current 3.3 looks huge plus has a halo, it gets a lot of “is it real” questions and when I travel I worry that someone will chop off my finger. If I were in your shoes, I’d get a natural 5ct stone WITH a trade up policy. Have fun shopping and planning the proposal <3
 
8ctDream said:
Thanks for all of your concerns and Happy New Year!!!! To clarify - my lady is 100% ok with a treated diamond as long as she wasn't able to visually see the difference. Ideally we'd love to have a 7 carat ring that has all of the attributes that are ultra high quality spec.

Thank you for all of the advice and sensitivity regarding if the ring is too large or too big/gaudy/in your face etc. These concerns have been taken seriously and also I personally am OK with a 6-8 carat ring on her finger as well as her own delight. I like the idea of upgrading/trade in rings - starting at 5 carat but within the scope of what we are seeking - I see 200k as a floor price for a 5 carat untreated diamond with the spec that we are seeking. A HPHT treated 6 carat-7 carat near flawless spec is around 100k (my budget).
Click to expand...
@8ctDream Happy New Year to you too!!! Maybe my post was a little harsh, but I think myself and most of the other responders here were shocked and bewildered by your proposed course of action. $100K would buy almost anyone on this board the diamond of their dreams. A diamond of jaw dropping size, and with specs to die for. To see you spend that kind of money on what most of us would consider a fake diamond is just unbelievable. As far as upgrades go, I don't think you'll ever be able to upgrade that diamond, in fact it's unlikely you'll ever even be able to sell it for anything like what you paid.

I know advice is usually only worth what you paid for it =)2 but presumably you did come on this board to seek advice. So please give our free advice careful consideration. There are experts here who will help you find a $100K diamond that will blow your mind, and make your lady the envy of all her friends. All you have to do is ask.
 
prs said:
@8ctDream ...So please give our free advice careful consideration. There are experts here who will help you find a $100K diamond that will blow your mind, and make your lady the envy of all her friends. All you have to do is ask.
Click to expand...
AMEN! Listen to Peter.
 
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