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Heartbreaking Whiteflash experience....

shinychic

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
21
Hello All,
I am by no means a diamond expert, but I am in the market for a halo reset. My dear husband bought me a diamond before we ever discovered Pricescope. The diamond is EGL certified, and he bought it with the best of intentions and of course I happily accepted the man along with the diamond. A few years have passed, and we are ready for a reset. He went through Whiteflash because of the great things my fellow Pricescopers have said. However, Whiteflash was not only very slow in getting back to us, they finally informed my husband that they will not reset an EGL diamond... This is heartbreaking, I love my diamond, I know it is an EGL and it is not perfect, but for a vendor to not want to deal with us because of the diamond certification is somewhat surprising. Has anyone else dealt with this? I am proud of my diamond, and the memories associated with it... I am a bit disappointed and shocked by the turn of events... What now?
Thanks in advance for reading,
Shiny
 

Laila619

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
11,614
They won't reset an EGL diamond?! How odd. I'm so sorry. :((

I have a Leo diamond with an IGI cert (IGI definitely does not have a good reputation) and WF said they would set mine without any issues. I'm really sorry you encountered problems. You will find something beautiful for your diamond though, don't worry! You should be very proud of your stone, absolutely.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,164
I feel like maybe there is some information missing, perhaps? Like does the stone have inclusions that make it risky to reset and they do not want the liability? What is the clarity grade?

I am a little unclear...did he send them the diamond or did they just say they don't set EGL stones without looking at the stone or the lab report?
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
I am sorry about what must be an emotional rejection for you. The painful fact is that many vendors may refuse to reset diamonds that are not theirs, and some may have policies that exclude certain things such as resetting a EGL diamond.

From the topic, I expected that something terrible has happened. It HAS. But it is a very personal heartbreak, I don't think whiteflash is really the culprit here.

Perhaps some of the PSers will be able to recommend a jeweller to you if you outlined your reset plans and budgets and the area you are in? That might be the best way forward, and just forget the rejection at Whiteflash. Sometimes you have to accept the policies that certain stores put in place.

As a personal example: I would love to send the E-ring that I get into Tiffany for repair and repolishing. In fact to be able to do that is a MAJOR draw for me. But they don't sell pink diamonds. Well they DO, but it would cost me both kidneys, some of my favorite teeth, and perhaps my working corneas.

What goood would I be then? And they won't reset my stone in their own settings. I don't hold it against them though.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
This is like the second time, in the last 2 weeks or so, that I see a similar thread like this regarding WF not setting stones. I think the other thread was a heirloom stone without grading report?

I would check with BrianGavinDiamond, I remember it was recommended on the other thread.
 

centralsquare

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,201
Oh that is surprising. Can you buy the setting you want from WF and get it set elsewhere?
 

PintoBean

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
6,585
Hi Shiny,

I bet your diamond is gorgeous, irregardless of whom it was certified by! It's not going to be less perfect just because there is an EGL cert. attached to the diamond. All the EGL certificate means is that someone upstream/downstream somewhere made the executive decision to send the diamond to EGL instead of GIA, AGS, etc.

I'm sorry that Whiteflash won't work with your diamond, but in the FAQ section of their website, this decision is a general policy, so please don't take it as a personal affront directed at your diamond. (I have pasted it below).

Whiteflash is only one of many wonderful Pricescope vendors you can reach out to, and I bet in no time, you'll be showing off your wonderful new setting from ANOTHER Pricescope vendor in a "show me the bling" thread. It will all work out :D

"Working with Customers Diamonds and Jewelry

Setting Customer Diamonds

As a high-end manufacturing jeweler Whiteflash offers services which include setting customers’ diamonds, provided certain conditions are met. There is inherent risk in handling and setting diamonds although problems are rare. We only work with customer diamonds with the express understanding that Whiteflash is not liable for any damage, loss, theft, mysterious disappearance or any other potential danger. We strongly recommend that customers carry personal jewelry insurance for their high value items, and that they understand the coverage deductibles and exclusions. In order for Whiteflash to agree to work on a customer’s diamond the following conditions must be met.

* The diamond must be lab certified by either GIA or AGS. (Customer must provide the original lab certificate with the diamond)
* Customer submits copy of insurance policy covering the diamond
* Customer signs legal waiver of liability"
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
You know just the other day someone posted that WF wouldn't reset their diamonds because they were older and uncerted. What is going on?

BGD and ERD make beautiful halos. I would call one of them up and have them reset your ring. Dimend Scaasi will also do this if you tell them you are Pricescoper. Pearlmans carries many lines that have beautiful halo rings: Beverly K is particular favorite of PSers.

((HUGS)) there is NOTHING wrong with your diamond. Aparently WF has so much business that they can afford to alienate their potential customers left and right. :nono:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Here are some gorgeous halos by vendors that I am sure will be THRILLED to help you...

Pearlman's is one of my all time favorite vendors. I've worked with them many times and been thrilled everytime! Ask for Julian or Bill http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-designers/beverley-k-jewelry/rings/102PP1/


http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/DiamondJewelryDetails.aspx?ID=2 One of my best friends has a gorgeous engagement ring from Mark and his team and has been thrilled with the quality and the service every time she's dealt with them ask for Mark.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5441 You can search their rave reviews on here... I have a few BGD pieces and can't find fault with any of them. Ask for Lesley.

http://www.dimendscaasi.com/build/step1.asp?prodID=AG458 Mention you are a Pricescoper and they will set your outside stone for you in one of their stunning settings (this is a benefit for Pricescope members only) ask for the owner (can't remember his name right now, sorry! Nice guy though).
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,164
PintoBean|1311820601|2978553 said:
Hi Shiny,

I bet your diamond is gorgeous, irregardless of whom it was certified by! It's not going to be less perfect just because there is an EGL cert. attached to the diamond. All the EGL certificate means is that someone upstream/downstream somewhere made the executive decision to send the diamond to EGL instead of GIA, AGS, etc.

I'm sorry that Whiteflash won't work with your diamond, but in the FAQ section of their website, this decision is a general policy, so please don't take it as a personal affront directed at your diamond. (I have pasted it below).

Whiteflash is only one of many wonderful Pricescope vendors you can reach out to, and I bet in no time, you'll be showing off your wonderful new setting from ANOTHER Pricescope vendor in a "show me the bling" thread. It will all work out :D

"Working with Customers Diamonds and Jewelry

Setting Customer Diamonds

As a high-end manufacturing jeweler Whiteflash offers services which include setting customers’ diamonds, provided certain conditions are met. There is inherent risk in handling and setting diamonds although problems are rare. We only work with customer diamonds with the express understanding that Whiteflash is not liable for any damage, loss, theft, mysterious disappearance or any other potential danger. We strongly recommend that customers carry personal jewelry insurance for their high value items, and that they understand the coverage deductibles and exclusions. In order for Whiteflash to agree to work on a customer’s diamond the following conditions must be met.

* The diamond must be lab certified by either GIA or AGS. (Customer must provide the original lab certificate with the diamond)
* Customer submits copy of insurance policy covering the diamond
* Customer signs legal waiver of liability"
Ah, now this explains it! There is risk involved any time a diamond is set. They take the risk when they sell the diamond. I can certainly see why it is not worth the risk of damaging a stone when they are selling just a setting. They want the customer to have insurance and accept the liability for setting the stone. I suppose they want reliable certs in order to prove that they did not damage a diamond, since EGL certs are usually higher than the real grade.

I think one thing people forget is that diamond vendors are primarily in the business of selling diamonds unlike local jewelers who may depend on selling settings and other jewelry and doing repairs as a large part of their business.

I'd really encourage anyone with a diamond to reset to at least consider local jewelers or custom ring makers. It is a lot easier to have repairs made, etc. locally. I always encourage those buying a diamond from a PS vendor to try to have the vendor set the stone so they have the liability and the ring comes to them finished and ready to insure.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Laila619|1311818188|2978512 said:
They won't reset an EGL diamond?! How odd. I'm so sorry. :((

I have a Leo diamond with an IGI cert (IGI definitely does not have a good reputation) and WF said they would set mine without any issues. I'm really sorry you encountered problems. You will find something beautiful for your diamond though, don't worry! You should be very proud of your stone, absolutely.

DS It doesn't look like they are applying their policy consistently though.
 

kindred

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
945
I talked to Whiteflash about setting a diamond I inherited. Initially, they wanted a GIA or AGS certificate, but they then said that they could ask for an exception to be made. I ended up deciding against the setting I had been looking at, so I'll probably have the stone set elsewhere. Maybe you could ask if they would make an exception for you, if you aren't too turned off to bother at this point.

Your diamond was given to you with love and I'm sure it has many happy memories associated with it. Try not to let Whiteflash's reply get you down. There are many reputable vendors who do beautiful work and would be happy to set your diamond.
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
13,166
I'm sorry you're so upset about this.

If you really *must* have the Whiteflash setting, another option would be to send your stone to GIA to have it certified. Can any of the experts weigh in on how much that costs? It might be worth it if WF has the setting you love.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,981
A broken heart over this indicates you need some information.
With this information you will see that WF's policy is understandable.

Setting a diamond subjects it to some stress.
The lowest clarity grades may have inclusions that weaken a diamond to point of unacceptable risk of cracking during setting.

EGL is well know for their "generous" clarity and color grading.
If EGL and GIA were to both grade the same diamond it may get SI1 from EGL and I1 or I2 from GIA.

If I was setting a diamond I'd want to be certain of the clarity grade.
Maybe WF, or their insurance carrier, does not trust the clarity grade on an EGL report.

There is a possibility EGL graded your diamond VVS1 and GIA would also grade it VVS1 or VS2, and it may actually be within WF's safe range.
The problem is with EGL grading you just can't be certain.
I don't blame WF for having one police for ALL EGL stones - otherwise they'd get caught up in a sticky mess of drawing a line that would end up upsetting more customers (Well you set my friends EGL VS2 so why won't you set MINE! :angryfire: )

There is nothing "wrong" with a EGL diamond.
You just can't be certain of the grades (and therefor what price is fair).

I agree you should remove the diamond from the setting and send the loose stone to GIA or AGS.
Then you'll know for sure what you bought.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Gypsy|1311823009|2978597 said:
Laila619|1311818188|2978512 said:
They won't reset an EGL diamond?! How odd. I'm so sorry. :((

I have a Leo diamond with an IGI cert (IGI definitely does not have a good reputation) and WF said they would set mine without any issues. I'm really sorry you encountered problems. You will find something beautiful for your diamond though, don't worry! You should be very proud of your stone, absolutely.

DS It doesn't look like they are applying their policy consistently though.
I do wonder about the clarity grades of Laila's diamond and the OP's diamond. And the different settings could have varied in the chance of damage.

But if this is the reason I think it should have been explained to the OP. Or else the rule should be applies consistently.
 

iheartscience

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
12,111
Try not to take it personally. WF also refused to set my .3 OMC into a pendant setting without it being certified and insured. I paid $365 for the diamond and have no reason to insure it (as I can easily replace it out of pocket) or get it certified. I would have been willing to sign a waiver but that apparently isn't an option. And on top of that, they wanted $150 just to set the stone.

I said thanks, but no thanks, and got Good Old Gold to set it for me. They did a fabulous job and I wouldn't hesitate to work with them on a larger project. I would suggest contacting other jewelers for setting quotes. I don't think any of the other PS vendors have a similar policy.

I think WF's policy is ridiculous and it left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. Their somewhat recent policy changes are not very customer friendly, IMO. The other one that comes to mind is their newer policy where they won't sell you a setting unless you buy the stone from them. I got my engagement ring, wedding bands and earrings from WF and was a big fan, so I am very disappointed with these new policies. It's a shame because I really like my sales rep and have built a good relationship with her over the last 6 years.
 

Laila619

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
11,614
Gypsy|1311823009|2978597 said:
Laila619|1311818188|2978512 said:
They won't reset an EGL diamond?! How odd. I'm so sorry. :((

I have a Leo diamond with an IGI cert (IGI definitely does not have a good reputation) and WF said they would set mine without any issues. I'm really sorry you encountered problems. You will find something beautiful for your diamond though, don't worry! You should be very proud of your stone, absolutely.

DS It doesn't look like they are applying their policy consistently though.
I should mention that this was in late 2009 though--maybe they recently changed their policy? :confused:
 

kelpie

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
2,362
Whiteflash set an Abraded and included Omc for me which had feather breaking the surface. NO cert on that one. But don't be heartbroken, there are tons on people who could make the setting you want.
 

iheartscience

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
12,111
Laila619|1311828734|2978652 said:
Gypsy|1311823009|2978597 said:
Laila619|1311818188|2978512 said:
They won't reset an EGL diamond?! How odd. I'm so sorry. :((

I have a Leo diamond with an IGI cert (IGI definitely does not have a good reputation) and WF said they would set mine without any issues. I'm really sorry you encountered problems. You will find something beautiful for your diamond though, don't worry! You should be very proud of your stone, absolutely.

DS It doesn't look like they are applying their policy consistently though.
I should mention that this was in late 2009 though--maybe they recently changed their policy? :confused:
According to my sales rep it's always been the policy and now they're just enforcing it. I can't remember ever reading it or seeing any posts on PS about it until recently, though.
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,451
I know a very superb manufacturer, Mark Morrell, who will not directly accept a diamond without a grading report verified by an expert because of all the liability in receiving a stone and the possibility of being accused later of switching the stone while making the ring. It is not common to refuse to do work generally, but the great liability for a diamond of high value outweighs the benefit of doing work with its relatively small profit potential if one's reputation and financial well-being is also at stake each time. If a vendor carelessly does work for anyone who sends in a diamond, eventually someone will be very unhappy and think the diamond was switched or that the jeweler broke their diamond. Then the process begins of giving back all the past profits made to one unhappy client who may not really be correct. Then again, who knows for sure? No one.

Possibly a person who wishes a WF mounting might arrange with them to have the diamond unset, inspected and verified for condition and grading accuracy by one of the four or five best known appraisers on Pricescope before the appraiser then ships it to WF for the new mounting if everything is correct and the stone is in good condition. This could protect everyone and might not cost as much as a GIA report. Certainly, the process would be faster and removal of a diamond is something GIA will not handle.

I do think there are ways around such blockades that vendors and clients might use with success so that business can be done and consumers and vendors will be pleased and protected.
 

mrssalvo

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
19,132
I do understand WF's policy however there are plenty of other vendors already mentioned in this thread who would be more than happy to set your stone and do wonderful work. I'm sure your diamond is beautiful and is going to look gorgeous in a new setting.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
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Messages
8,829
I"m with the above. If WF doesn't want your business, that's their choice. They have plenty of competitors who do. If what you really really want is the WF piece, you can submit your stone to GIA for grading first. It's not usually terribly expensive and they'll do business with you directly or through a dealer or appraiser. www.gia.edu for more info.

If you take this path, make sure the WF folks ONLY concern is the paperwork. If there's something about the stone that makes it unsuitable for the mounting, changing the pedigree won't change the problem. Have they actually seen the stone?
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
3,287
This is an important issue, and a sensitive one, so I thought I would try to give some insight into our policy. We in no way are trying to be disrespectful or dismissive of the folks that give us the opportunity to do business with them!

Over the years our business operations have evolved. Things that may have been practical at one point may not be practical today. While we have a great desire to accommodate all our customers’ requests, we also have many years of experience to draw from and we have found that in order to maintain focus on our core business and our core customers, we must be careful in taking on certain types of obligations.

We have a busy shop and it is inevitable that once in a while a stone will be damaged. If it is our stone, we absorb the hit as a cost of doing business and move on. If on the other hand it is a customer stone, the issue can get very difficult.

If a customer is upset because a jeweler declines to work on their stone, imagine how upset they would become if the jeweler damages their stone!

In some cases we have had issues with customer stones that have sustained no damage in our shop. Customers naturally tend to examine newly made jewelry very closely. Certain features may become more visible after resetting/cleaning. Maybe a natural was not mentioned on the certificate and now it appears to be a chip. Maybe a diamond has sustained an abrasion since the diamond was certified. If it is in our possession even for a day, it has the potential of becoming a question of who and when.

In trying to draw some logical guidelines, we decided that our take-in policy with regard to lab reports should match our sales policy. We only sell AGS and GIA certified diamonds. We have seen far more discrepancies and omissions on EGL reports, which greatly increases the potential for problems.

Interestingly, even our stipulation about requiring proof of insurance does not afford us protection. While a customer may get reimbursed by the insurance company for damage that occurs, the insurance company can come after us!

Colored gemstones represent even more potential liability in that they are softer and more easily damaged. They are also normally less well cut, often with chips, abrasions or areas of the stone that are not polished, which can appear to a customer as damage after the fact.

As some have pointed out in this thread, many local jewelers are willing and able to work on customer pieces. The best ones will sit with the customer and carefully examine the item and achieve a clear understanding of the condition of the stone and what risks are involved in the project and which party bears that risk. For many customers this is probably the best option.

Our process involves a very careful check-in procedure and a photo record of the condition upon receiving the item. And even limiting our take-in to GIA and AGS diamonds, we do occasionally see some of the issues noted above. For this reason we require the original certificate so that we can accurately see all the plotting.

Having said all that, we do our best to stay flexible and not enslaved to our own policy. We do make some exceptions, especially for longtime customers and others who may have limited options.

I hope this helps in understanding why we put certain limitations on ourselves. Our only intent is to protect everyone from misunderstandings that can cause ill feelings and damage reputations.
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
3,287
Possibly a person who wishes a WF mounting might arrange with them to have the diamond unset, inspected and verified for condition and grading accuracy by one of the four or five best known appraisers on Pricescope before the appraiser then ships it to WF for the new mounting if everything is correct and the stone is in good condition. This could protect everyone and might not cost as much as a GIA report. Certainly, the process would be faster and removal of a diamond is something GIA will not handle.

I do think there are ways around such blockades that vendors and clients might use with success so that business can be done and consumers and vendors will be pleased and protected.
We think this is an excellent suggestion and one that we would be comfortable with when making an exception to our policy.

We understand how deeply personal a customer's diamond or gemstone can be. We are moved and motivated every day by personal stories from our customers, and take the responsibility of protecting their treasures very seriously. Such a process as Dave outlines not only facilitates understanding all around, but adds a layer of expertise that is very valuable to the customer.

Finally, I would like to apologize to anyone who was left feeling like we are too busy to accomodate them or that we don't understand how important these projects are.

Sincerely,
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,130
I have the same questions as DS - did they simply say No EGL, or did they look at the stone/report and then get back to you w/ a more detailed analysis and reason for rejection?

I too contacted WF about setting a pair of antique cushions recently. No lab reports or appraisals, just several closeup photos showing girdle abrasions, inclusions, faceting. They gave me a quote for setting without constraints.

However, my stones
A) weren't large
B) weren't terribly valuable
C) weren't of emotional consequence (like heirlooms), and weren't going into an emotionally consequential piece (like an engagement ring/reset)
D) were independently insured for shipping and setting
E) came with lots of clear photos that documented current condition
F) I've worked with them before.

I don't know how they weigh these and other factors, but if you really want to work w/ WF you can always ask for more information. If not, big ditto PPs who suggest finding a local establishment - who, as oldminer says, can sit down with you, talk about the stone and setting... Either way I would contact WF to ensure, as denverappraiser suggests, that there isn't another reason for concern.


I'm wincing as I write this, but I personally cannot recommend BGD at this time for custom setting work. There have been too many reports of problems with custom jobs recently for my comfort, and while in my case they rectified the issues, and I am very happy with the result, that's X extra weeks of hassle and headache that noone needs w/ something so sentimental.
 

makemepretty

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Messages
987
I highly recommend www.exceldiamonds.com They're wonderful to work with. As long as you're buying a setting from them and paying a setting fee, they don't seem to have a problem setting your diamond. Plus they do beautiful work!
 

iheartscience

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
12,111
Yssie|1311882700|2979161 said:
I have the same questions as DS - did they simply say No EGL, or did they look at the stone/report and then get back to you w/ a more detailed analysis and reason for rejection?

I too contacted WF about setting a pair of antique cushions recently. No lab reports or appraisals, just several closeup photos showing girdle abrasions, inclusions, faceting. They gave me a quote for setting without constraints.

However, my stones
A) weren't large
B) weren't terribly valuable
C) weren't of emotional consequence (like heirlooms), and weren't going into an emotionally consequential piece (like an engagement ring/reset)
D) were independently insured for shipping and setting
E) came with lots of clear photos that documented current condition
F) I've worked with them before.

I don't know how they weigh these and other factors, but if you really want to work w/ WF you can always ask for more information. If not, big ditto PPs who suggest finding a local establishment - who, as oldminer says, can sit down with you, talk about the stone and setting... Either way I would contact WF to ensure, as denverappraiser suggests, that there isn't another reason for concern.


I'm wincing as I write this, but I personally cannot recommend BGD at this time for custom setting work. There have been too many reports of problems with custom jobs recently for my comfort, and while in my case they rectified the issues, and I am very happy with the result, that's X extra weeks of hassle and headache that noone needs w/ something so sentimental.
Obviously I'm not the OP, but I met all of the above on your list aside from D. (I only insure my pricier items, although of course I would have gotten insurance from USPS if I sent the stone to them.) That said, WF still wouldn't set my stone. I'm really not sure why. :confused:

Oh well-it worked out for the best because it forced me to expand my horizons and go with Good Old Gold, so now I have another PS vendor I feel 100% comfortable using.
 
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