Health Care Vote...The Shame of the House indeed :(

[Octo2005]

It worked for my parents who have always been self-employed and who never had health insurance for decades (paying cash for everything) but as they got older decided to purchase a catastrophic plan before Obamacare. A year later my dad was in surgery for skin cancer having his face dissected and losing half of his cheek and ear. Good thing they did because the surgery was over 70K when all was done. Their out of pocket was 10K which was much easier to handle. I have had two major surgeries in the last 10 years and on both have negotiated the best deal with the hospital to pay my 20% on payments rather than cash up front. I hate using cash if someone will finance at 0%.

Hi everyone! Great discussion!

Redwood: I am sorry but just because this worked for you and your family does not mean that this is a great plan. What would have happened if your dad's skin cancer occurred before their catastrophic plan? I imagine that it would have had a huge impact on your family financially. No family should have to watch a loved one die because the treatment plan is to expensive or financially bankrupt themselves trying to save a loved ones life. Just because everything worked out for your family does not mean that it is always the case. Medical catastrophe can strike at anytime and without any warning - for people complaining that they can't afford the insurance cost, imagine trying to handle a devastating illness/injury.

Glad to hear that your dad was able to get treatment that he needed.

 

[redwood66]

Wow, why was it not caught earlier -- specially if it was on his face and likely easily observed?

My dermatologist has a map of all the moles and spots on my body, from my toes to my scalp.

It was all underneath the skin and not detected. He had several lesions removed from his nose and ears previously but nothing else had been observed by his doctor until he had pains in his neck below his ear. It was like tentacles growing underneath the skin up from his neck to ear and cheek.

If people think that all of the coverage for everyone can be foot by the super rich there just aren't enough of them. If you want single payer or UHC it will cost everyone and cost a ton. There were complaints in the tax thread about the removal of the ability to write off state and local taxes. That will seem like chump change compared to what you are asking for.

Thanks all for your kind comments about my dad. He expects to eventually die from skin or other cancer. It keeps coming back.

 

[Tekate]

Sorry to burst your bubble but it would not be only on the 1 mil plus people. More like the 250K plus people which would include a huge number of small businesses.

What bubble? time to pay.

 

[Tekate]

You probably did not like it much either, I know I don't. You would like 50% even less. LOL.

Hmm don't think so..if it doesnt affect me seriously then I've I'm fine with paying taxes.. thing with right wingers that has always amused me is they feel put upon to pay their fair share of taxes.. you don't see left paying americans complaining.. if I have more than enough I'm happy to share.

 

[redwood66]

Hmm don't think so..if it doesnt affect me seriously then I've I'm fine with paying taxes.. thing with right wingers that has always amused me is they feel put upon to pay their fair share of taxes.. you don't see left paying americans complaining.. if I have more than enough I'm happy to share.

I did in the tax thread as noted above.

 

[Tekate]

All insurance is a pool.
That is how insurance works period.
Everyone in the group pays into the pool and claims gets paid out of that pool.
Lets keep it simple:
100 people pay 1 dollar into the pool.
One person has an injury that costs $20 it is covered by the money in the pool.
As long as everyone doesn't draw from the pool at the same time and the admin fees aren't too high it works for everyone. When to many people draw at once or for large amounts then the premium goes up.
The more people in the pool and the more diverse health wise the pool the lower the costs.
High risk pools are expensive because they are not diverse and have a high payout and are generally not that deep. That is the worst possible combination.
That is not what I am talking about, I am talking about huge nationwide pools.

No, medicare users would get their premium paid by the government as would VA eligible.
Funny you mention national government healthcare.
All national government healthcare is a big pool.
There will be some that will call it a huge steep towards that.
Some with glee, some with gloom.

hum hum... sorry to say but we need a single payer system Karl.. the time is now.

we need this:

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2016/june/how-to-fix-health-care-costs

 

[Tekate]

I did in the tax thread as noted above.

???? what?

 

[redwood66]

hum hum... sorry to say but we need a single payer system Karl.. the time is now.

we need this:

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2016/june/how-to-fix-health-care-costs

And you have proof it would be better than the government run VA?

 

[Tekate]

It was all underneath the skin and not detected. He had several lesions removed from his nose and ears previously but nothing else had been observed by his doctor until he had pains in his neck below his ear. It was like tentacles growing underneath the skin up from his neck to ear and cheek.

If people think that all of the coverage for everyone can be foot by the super rich there just aren't enough of them. If you want single payer or UHC it will cost everyone and cost a ton. There were complaints in the tax thread about the removal of the ability to write off state and local taxes. That will seem like chump change compared to what you are asking for.

Thanks all for your kind comments about my dad. He expects to eventually die from skin or other cancer. It keeps coming back.

Back this up. I need to read some serious reporting to believe that the rich cannot help the poor.

 

[Tekate]

And you have proof it would be better than the government run VA?

the only info I have that is personal is my brother who's on the VA system and he does GREAT!

 

[redwood66]

Back this up. I need to read some serious reporting to believe that the rich cannot help the poor.

We already help the poor. That is not what we are talking about.

Edit - so what you want is income redistribution right?

Here are some interesting numbers on what the tops earn. It isn't much considering where some live. And I am in none of these brackets. LOL.

http://www.investopedia.com/news/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/

excerpt:
The top 5% of households earn an annual income of $214,462 or higher, according to the Census Bureau. That’s nearly four times the 2015 nationwide median household income of $56,516. The average income among those in the top 5% climbed to $350,870. Overall, this group lays claim to a 22.1% share of total household income in the U.S. Source:

To be certified as a one-percenter, you’ll need to bring in even more income each year. According to statistical data from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), the top 1% had an adjusted gross income of $465,626 or higher for the 2014 tax year. The Washington Center for Equitable Growth put the average household income for this group at $1,260,508 for 2014.

If you want to cross the top 10% mark, you’ll still need a six-figure income but the numbers aren’t quite as high. The IRS sets the adjusted gross income cutoff required to be in the 10% group at $133,445, based on 2014 tax data. Once again, the average household income for the top 10% of earners is higher, at $295,845.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hmm don't think so..if it doesnt affect me seriously then I've I'm fine with paying taxes.. thing with right wingers that has always amused me is they feel put upon to pay their fair share of taxes.. you don't see left paying americans complaining.. if I have more than enough I'm happy to share.

T
Good!..can you loan me $30K?

 

[redwood66]

???? what?

In here are the complaints about removing the ability to deduct state and local taxes.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-tax-policy.230835/

 

[Dancing Fire]

We already help the poor. That is not what we are talking about.

Edit - so what you want is income redistribution right?

The left can go rob every US billionaires down to their last cent and still wouldn't put a dent on our national debt.

 

[t-c]

It was all underneath the skin and not detected. He had several lesions removed from his nose and ears previously but nothing else had been observed by his doctor until he had pains in his neck below his ear. It was like tentacles growing underneath the skin up from his neck to ear and cheek.

Thanks all for your kind comments about my dad. He expects to eventually die from skin or other cancer. It keeps coming back.

I'm sorry to hear that. Skin cancer is very hard to treat once it has spread, unfortunately.

If people think that all of the coverage for everyone can be foot by the super rich there just aren't enough of them. If you want single payer or UHC it will cost everyone and cost a ton. There were complaints in the tax thread about the removal of the ability to write off state and local taxes. That will seem like chump change compared to what you are asking for.

You're probably referring to me. I don't mind paying more taxes if I'm going to get something out of it: universal healthcare would fit that bill for me.

I'm part of the 1% that actually pays a high tax rate because -- as a function of income, investment structure, and situation -- I don't have lots of deductions. Even the few I take are limited by AMT. So I'm already footing the bill for everyone, I might as well get something I want out of it.

But hey, if the Republicans continue with their agenda, I keep a lot of my money that would otherwise go to the government If they mess up the USA beyond redemption, I have enough assets and a portable career to be able to relocate anywhere I just feel bad for the folks who voted for them who do not have the same flexibility.

 

[redwood66]

Tc thank you. I am glad you are so generous. Most of us just want to keep as much as we can of the pittance we have earned in our careers.

 

[arkieb1]

I wonder if all the old timers and poor people that bought into the Trump propaganda that he was going to magically help the poor and forgotten are smiling now....

We have had numerous debates about the amount Americans are taxed. Australia has much higher personal taxations rates on a sliding scale according to how much we earn, (and arguable a better overall standard of living for all it's citizens as a result of this, or at least a more equitable distribution of these resources, and yes we all complain about how much we get taxed) and the most "liveable" counties in the world which are European nations are all taxed heavily and support all of their citizens with affordable heath care, education and so on. It's a system that works elsewhere, so it really shouldn't be that hard to follow.

We have high personal taxations rates, medium to high corporate taxation rates, and a goods and service tax on all imported products and all goods, services and food. So everything costs more and we pay more tax. We also overall have higher wages, a larger middle class and generally overall more of our citizens enjoy a higher standard of living. Imagine how much the rich, and middle class would whine if that were so in your country.

 

[Tekate]

T
Good!..can you loan me $30K?

Do you really need it? I charge 15% interest

 

[Tekate]

The left can go rob every US billionaires down to their last cent and still wouldn't put a dent on our national debt.

But it's a start!

 

[Tekate]

We already help the poor. That is not what we are talking about.

Edit - so what you want is income redistribution right?

Here are some interesting numbers on what the tops earn. It isn't much considering where some live. And I am in none of these brackets. LOL.

http://www.investopedia.com/news/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/

excerpt:
The top 5% of households earn an annual income of $214,462 or higher, according to the Census Bureau. That’s nearly four times the 2015 nationwide median household income of $56,516. The average income among those in the top 5% climbed to $350,870. Overall, this group lays claim to a 22.1% share of total household income in the U.S. Source:

To be certified as a one-percenter, you’ll need to bring in even more income each year. According to statistical data from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), the top 1% had an adjusted gross income of $465,626 or higher for the 2014 tax year. The Washington Center for Equitable Growth put the average household income for this group at $1,260,508 for 2014.

If you want to cross the top 10% mark, you’ll still need a six-figure income but the numbers aren’t quite as high. The IRS sets the adjusted gross income cutoff required to be in the 10% group at $133,445, based on 2014 tax data. Once again, the average household income for the top 10% of earners is higher, at $295,845.

Yes I want income distribution as a sort of I guess, if you make more you should pay more. I was not a 1%er I was a 4%er

Somebody needs to take a hit in the healthcare... http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/payer/health-insurance-ceo-pay-at-big-five-tops-out-at-17-3m-2015biz.. http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/payer/health-insurance-ceo-pay-at-big-five-tops-out-at-17-3m-2015

I wonder if they could make it on 8 million a year???? I know, only 4 benz instead of 7..

 

[AGBF]

I feel as if I have no money now, but that is because I am used to living in an upper middle class life style (defined by my community). I certainly am not among the 1% and I covet much of the jewelry and many of the cars I hear mentioned here on Pricescope that I cannot (and never could) afford. However, I know very well that I could adjust downward quite easily and be comfortable. When I was first married I lived on a fraction of what I do now and thought I had the world. I would do that so that there would be more equitable distribution of wealth!

AGBF

 

[redwood66]

Because I am diametrically opposed to many of you on how the government should run this conversation can really go nowhere but I have enjoyed the respectful back and forth as always. I do not harbor ill will or begrudge those who have more than me. Nor do I think corporations/capitalism are/is evil if the law is followed. Many of us would not be employed if it were not for their existence. Our income is less than the median for the country by choice because money isn't everything and I value happiness over it any day. I have had a six figure income and was no happier than I am today, in fact decidedly less so.

 

[missy]

I agree with all of you (you too Redwood!) that know that health and happiness is so much more important than money. However one must be healthy to be as happy as possible IMO and maintaining the best health possible is critical to happiness and peace and contentment and that is why it is so critical for good healthcare to be a right for ALL regardless of income level.

And yes those of us who make more money need to give more money into the system. NO question.

 

[arkieb1]

Well at least the lovely people here would gladly share their wealth if it meant a more equal system, I'd probably suggest there are a lot of Americans out there that don't feel the same way and that is a shame.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I think one thing we should all do is to look at the basics. WHY is health care so expensive In this country? Those other countries do not have the costs that we have.

There is a law on the books that is enforced that says no one can be denied health care in this country, long before OBama-care. We treat undocumented people and Medicaid was originally for people with moderate incomes(Johnson in the 60's). They rolled that back when the costs of too many covered people was more than they thought it would be. It became for the poorer people. In my state, you will never lose your home if you qualify for Medicaid. No matter how expensive a home you live in.
I am a big fan of medicaid. Paul Ryan is not. It has been on his wish list to cut it. IN this bill, they cut the expanded Medicaid, and cut another 25% from regular Medicaid funding. They contract dollar amounts for services, which the medical profession complains are too small, and thus many Dr. won't treat Medicaid patients unless they were reg. patients before. That's a problem.
I don't really understand all this market exchanges, so I can't comment on that.
The 1% or 10%, were taxed on this Obamacare. So were Ins. companies, medical devise companies, hospitals etc. The cost was born by everyone. So if they repeal Obamacare why should'nt the tax go back to those who had increased taxes because of it. Its not a windfall, they were the donors. They get it back.
Lastly, The other reason they want repeal is that tax on the above is needed for "The big Tax cut". The Corp tax is too high for good competition. Repatriate money oversees. ECT.

My brother pays 40% in taxes. He doesn't mind. But get this-- he also pay for private insurance. NHI sometimes isn't good enough. In England.

I'm not looking for an argument. I'm just stating my thoughts so far in this mess.

Annette

 

[OreoRosies86]

Wake up America!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Wake up America!

 

[Tekate]

Remember when the republicans talked about death panels if Obamacare passed? Here's the Death Squad.

Looks like a meeting of old white men when it was announced that Viagara now works for 6 hours instead of 3... Yahoo!!!! sing a long... we are white, we are old, we rule!!! la la la!!!

 

[Calliecake]

So True Kate. Erectile disfunction was not on the list of things that would no longer be covered on the republican plan. Lets get our priorities straight here. As long these old white mens d$&@s work, all is right with the world.
Why on earth would you need a woman helping make decisions on women's healthcare when you have a sea of old white guys?

Watching Paul Ryans smug face on the political shows yesterday made me sick.

 

[arkieb1]

So True Kate. Erectile disfunction was not on the list of things that would no longer be covered on the republican plan. Lets get our priorities straight here. As long these old white mens d$&@s work, all is right with the world.
Why on earth would you need a woman helping make decisions on women's healthcare when you have a sea of old white guys?

Watching Paul Ryans smug face on the political shows yesterday made me sick.

That's because the same rich white men that want to ban abortion and control birth control, moralise education and ruin health care for the poor prioritise being able to get it up while they are fooling around with whoever they can (very often younger women). In fact the health industry in general has always spent vast amounts more money developing products like Viagra than anything to enhance women's pleasure.

It seems that despite decades of feminism, we all all still governed by backward thinking ethnocentric, phallocentric (white male) decisions.