Health Care Vote...The Shame of the House indeed :(

[OreoRosies86]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/01/news/economy/obamacare-trump-pre-existing-conditions/
Missy, I found this article linked in yours, which provides good info about the pre-existing conditions piece.
So likely, the poorest red states will be the first to start opting out/cutting services. Trumps base will be the first ones on the chopping block. I mean, I think all of the liberals knew this going in, the people affected most just refused to believe it. People living in the wealthy blue states will probably* be fine.

*obviously no guarantee.

That's the thing. Massachusetts? Probably ok. Arkansas? Good luck.

 

[telephone89]

That's the thing. Massachusetts? Probably ok. Arkansas? Good luck.

Yup.

 

[redwood66]

Do you really think this could happen? To me the world 'pool' connotates high cost. So you are saying to give medicare users a stipend? Why not just offer national health insurance? you won't have to move people into pools... encourage people to 'buy'... your post reads like high risk pool to me, and I have seen high risk in my lifetime and it doesn't work.. It's a lot easier to put a portion of one's income towards national healthcare Karl. But I will give a clap to Ayn Rand for you
Peace

If the "pool" were for catastrophic coverage only then I might be inclined to agree with Karl. That is what causes bankruptcies anyway isn't it? There is no reason why people of a certain income should not be able to pay out of pocket for their annual visit or the occasional cold/cough situation. Or even to have a baby, after all that was their choice.

We are on our way to single payer which was the plan by the dems all along. Less than 10 years most likely and I don't want to hear one complaint from those who will have to pay a VAT of 20+% or their tax burden is 50+%.

 

[AGBF]

This is beyond upsetting. And from what I've read, the Senate has already "rejected" this joke of a bill in its current form, and are "re-writing" it entirely. So this was essentially a fake vote to give our fragile man-child of a POTUS a "win". This is pathetic, cruel, and infuriating.

Do not take this for granted, lovedogs. This is not at all what I have been hearing and remember that Trump got elected. I have heard from some very, very savvy people (on political radio stations) that The Senate may pass a version of this bill. It will be the the left of this, but it will be to hold up Republican credibility. If we do not cause a huge ruckus-and I mean huge-this can happen. Please do not count on the Senate rejecting this bill out of hand. We want to SAVE everything good about the ACA. Maybe it is time to push for universal health care.

Deb

 

[Matata]

Remember when the republicans talked about death panels if Obamacare passed? Here's the Death Squad.

 

[soxfan]

Or even to have a baby, after all that was their choice.

Not always. But soon they may not have a choice under Mike Pence. "Life is winning," he says. Well, unless you need healthcare.

 

[liaerfbv]

We are on our way to single payer which was the plan by the dems all along. Less than 10 years most likely and I don't want to hear one complaint from those who will have to pay a VAT of 20+% or their tax burden is 50+%.

Seeing as how the Republicans are LITERALLY IN CONTROL OF ALL THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, doesn't it seem like they have a *tiny* bit more say in the direction of our healthcare options in this country? Don't pass the buck on the Democrats here. Obama tried to get single payer to pass, and compromised with ACA. It isn't perfect, but this dumpster fire that was passed yesterday hasn't even been vetted by the damn CBO. If we are "on the way to single payer" it's because the country will (hopefully) throw out every ****ing Republican who voted for this in 2018.

 

[redwood66]

Seeing as how the Republicans are LITERALLY IN CONTROL OF ALL THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, doesn't it seem like they have a *tiny* bit more say in the direction of our healthcare options in this country? Don't pass the buck on the Democrats here. Obama tried to get single payer to pass, and compromised with ACA. It isn't perfect, but this dumpster fire that was passed yesterday hasn't even been vetted by the damn CBO. If we are "on the way to single payer" it's because the country will (hopefully) throw out every ****ing Republican who voted for this in 2018.

And I am of the opinion that dems knew the ACA would be unsustainable long term. But when you have created an entitlement it is impossible to roll it back which the republicans also know. None of them can politically just get rid of the ACA.


Edit - Hell legalize pot and charge a 50+% tax on it to fund healthcare. Plus 50% on alcohol and cigarettes.

 

[Karl_K]

Do you really think this could happen? To me the world 'pool' connotates high cost. So you are saying to give medicare users a stipend? Why not just offer national health insurance? you won't have to move people into pools... encourage people to 'buy'... your post reads like high risk pool to me, and I have seen high risk in my lifetime and it doesn't work.. It's a lot easier to put a portion of one's income towards national healthcare Karl. But I will give a clap to Ayn Rand for you
Peace

All insurance is a pool.
That is how insurance works period.
Everyone in the group pays into the pool and claims gets paid out of that pool.
Lets keep it simple:
100 people pay 1 dollar into the pool.
One person has an injury that costs $20 it is covered by the money in the pool.
As long as everyone doesn't draw from the pool at the same time and the admin fees aren't too high it works for everyone. When to many people draw at once or for large amounts then the premium goes up.
The more people in the pool and the more diverse health wise the pool the lower the costs.
High risk pools are expensive because they are not diverse and have a high payout and are generally not that deep. That is the worst possible combination.
That is not what I am talking about, I am talking about huge nationwide pools.

No, medicare users would get their premium paid by the government as would VA eligible.
Funny you mention national government healthcare.
All national government healthcare is a big pool.
There will be some that will call it a huge steep towards that.
Some with glee, some with gloom.

 

[liaerfbv]

ETA: To Redwood -- I'm still trying to figure out the new quote system here

I don't understand how your position that Democrats knew ACA was unsustainable long term is relevant to your opinion that "we are on on the way to single payer which was the plan by dems all along."

Even if they did know it was unsustainable (which I disagree with), they are not in control of the House or the Senate now, and they haven't been since 2010. What Democrats want or plan for is moot, as all they can do is try and obstruct at this point (which is a shitty way to govern no matter what party is the majority). There are definite drawbacks to implementing single payer here, which is why I thought ACA was a decent compromise. The majority of the country is clearly in favor of at least the main key provisions (preexisting conditions, etc.), so the clear "win" for the Republicans was to revise within the current framework. That clearly didn't happen for petty political reasons and vindictiveness.

You don't have to be liberal or conservative to see that this bill was not vetted, not an improvement on our current system, and won't save the country any money in entitlements in the long term once you consider the cost of the emergency medical care we will all be paying for once 20+ million people are uninsured in the next decade.

 

[redwood66]

That the republicans are in control now has nothing to do with the fact that dems really want a single payer system but did not have the fortitude or political will to go that far. And the ACA was a compromise between dems as no republicans voted for it. The repubs are attempting to make cheesecake out of creamed spinach because they cannot do otherwise and have no political fortitude to scrap it. Its all crap now and only downhill to more taxing and cost for all taxpayers.

 

[liaerfbv]

Red, they can literally throw out the creamed spinach because they control the entire country. They don't give a shit about rolling back entitlements or harming constituents as shown by the bill they just passed. Throw away the creamed spinach and at least make a ****ing turkey sandwich or something - they gave the country a steaming bag of horse shit (that they have no idea how much will cost us, no less).

 

[redwood66]

Not once have I said I liked the new bill. And no the repubs don't have any will to roll back entitlements either but entitlement reform is certainly what is needed if you don't want that 50% tax burden on taxpayers.

 

[liaerfbv]

And not once have I said I think single payer is what we should be doing. But I just felt your statement about being single payer in 10 years was a deflective statement to the harm that Republicans are doing right now. Today. Maybe in 2018, the Republicans will lose control of Congress and single payer will be a topic of conversation again. Right now, it's not.

 

[redwood66]

And not once have I said I think single payer is what we should be doing. But I just felt your statement about being single payer in 10 years was a deflective statement to the harm that Republicans are doing right now. Today. Maybe in 2018, the Republicans will lose control of Congress and single payer will be a topic of conversation again. Right now, it's not.

My statement was just that and it is my opinion on the situation we have been in since 2009. I was not deflecting anything.

 

[redwood66]

As far as Medicaid block grants I am all for them. Most of us here on PS do not have an unlimited pile of money with which to buy every bauble under the sun. We live within a budget. Perhaps the states should take a look at how their Medicaid funds are spent to ensure they can provide the necessities rather than providing all the niceties. And do a better job of eliminating fraud by patients and doctors.

 

[partgypsy]

I would LOVE for us to go to single payer. It has been shown in the real world, it reduces health care costs, and provides better more continuous coverage for citizens. Not everything government does better. Universal healthcare happens to be one of them. Countries with universal health coverage have lower cost per capita, and better health outcomes than we do on pretty major benchmarks. So no I think if we pass single payer healthcare it will be a win-win for everyone. ps the republicans know what they are offering the average citizen is pure crap. That's why (surprise) they made it so their health coverage is exempted. They do not list what is considered a pre-existing condition, so you can bet health insurance companies will apply pre-existing conditions to anything they can get away with.

 

[partgypsy]

These are some of the groups against the new health care "plan"

• The AARP

• American Hospital Association

• Federation of American Hospitals

• America's Essential Hospitals

• Families USA

• The American Medical Association

• American Nurses Association

• American College of Physicians

• National Nurses United

• National Physicians Alliance

• Association of American Physicians and Surgeons

• American Academy of Pediatrics

(basically anyone who is interested in improving public health). But what do those people know, Republicans are calling them "special interest" groups. And see, the insurance companies are not complaining! Not everyone is against it!

 

[rainwood]

I've seen all these headlines about who wins and loses under the new plan, but it's really quite simple. We ALL lose when people don't have access to good health care. Every developed country in the world has grasped that principle except the US.

 

[CJ2008]

I am not super well informed to comment at length.

But to touch on rainwood's post, that is exactly along the lines of what I was thinking this morning.

When seniors suffer (as an example) you're also putting an extra burden on the family that takes care of them. The damage isn't contained to the specific person.

Scary.

 

[Tekate]

If the "pool" were for catastrophic coverage only then I might be inclined to agree with Karl. That is what causes bankruptcies anyway isn't it? There is no reason why people of a certain income should not be able to pay out of pocket for their annual visit or the occasional cold/cough situation. Or even to have a baby, after all that was their choice.

We are on our way to single payer which was the plan by the dems all along. Less than 10 years most likely and I don't want to hear one complaint from those who will have to pay a VAT of 20+% or their tax burden is 50+%.

I won't complain. Although I am pretty old and will be on medicare soon. You are more optimistic than I am about a single payer system happening in the USA. It wouldn't bother me one bit if income on the rich was 50% is it hard to live on 1million a year if you make 2? I'm not sure if 50% would be on say 150K... I've paid VAT in europe.. I'm not really well versed in how much it would add.

 

[Tekate]

Not once have I said I liked the new bill. And no the repubs don't have any will to roll back entitlements either but entitlement reform is certainly what is needed if you don't want that 50% tax burden on taxpayers.

I've paid 34% (or more I don't remember) I lived very nicely. Jewelry, luxury mobiles cruising...

 

[redwood66]

I've paid 34% (or more I don't remember) I lived very nicely. Jewelry, luxury mobiles cruising...

You probably did not like it much either, I know I don't. You would like 50% even less. LOL.

 

[redwood66]

I won't complain. Although I am pretty old and will be on medicare soon. You are more optimistic than I am about a single payer system happening in the USA. It wouldn't bother me one bit if income on the rich was 50% is it hard to live on 1million a year if you make 2? I'm not sure if 50% would be on say 150K... I've paid VAT in europe.. I'm not really well versed in how much it would add.

Sorry to burst your bubble but it would not be only on the 1 mil plus people. More like the 250K plus people which would include a huge number of small businesses.

 

[missy]

I am not an expert and honestly I don't live and breathe politics and I don't like to comment about things I don't know a lot about. But what I *do* know is that health care cannot be a privilege for only the wealthy and the rich. It is a right and should be a right and no one should die or suffer quality of life issues from a lack of good health care in this country.

In my opinion Healthcare MUST be a RIGHT. It has to be in a civilized society. It should be everywhere. That this is happening continues to be surreal and a nightmare for so many. I know we will be OK though it will be a hardship. But what about all those who cannot afford this and all those who will lose their healthcare? What about those whose very survival depends on having healthcare that they will now be denied? How can this even be considered?

 

[KaeKae]

This is beyond upsetting. And from what I've read, the Senate has already "rejected" this joke of a bill in its current form, and are "re-writing" it entirely. So this was essentially a fake vote to give our fragile man-child of a POTUS a "win". This is pathetic, cruel, and infuriating.

It's disgusting. They are playing games.

 

[Karl_K]

If the "pool" were for catastrophic coverage only then I might be inclined to agree with Karl. That is what causes bankruptcies anyway isn't it? There is no reason why people of a certain income should not be able to pay out of pocket for their annual visit or the occasional cold/cough situation. Or even to have a baby, after all that was their choice.

catastrophic coverage does not work, too many people will leave everything until it becomes catastrophic.

Lack of prenatal and delivery heath care leads to more expensive problems down the road for both the mother and child.

A small copay on visits should be required from all but the very poor to keep down abuse.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Working in mental health/substance abuse/transplant, I am VERY worried. This is a nightmare.

 

[redwood66]

catastrophic coverage does not work, too many people will leave everything until it becomes catastrophic.

Lack of prenatal and delivery heath care leads to more expensive problems down the road for both the mother and child.

A small copay on visits should be required from all but the very poor to keep down abuse.

It worked for my parents who have always been self-employed and who never had health insurance for decades (paying cash for everything) but as they got older decided to purchase a catastrophic plan before Obamacare. A year later my dad was in surgery for skin cancer having his face dissected and losing half of his cheek and ear. Good thing they did because the surgery was over 70K when all was done. Their out of pocket was 10K which was much easier to handle. I have had two major surgeries in the last 10 years and on both have negotiated the best deal with the hospital to pay my 20% on payments rather than cash up front. I hate using cash if someone will finance at 0%.

 

[t-c]

It worked for my parents who have always been self-employed and who never had health insurance for decades (paying cash for everything) but as they got older decided to purchase a catastrophic plan before Obamacare. A year later my dad was in surgery for skin cancer having his face dissected and losing half of his cheek and ear. Good thing they did because the surgery was over 70K when all was done. Their out of pocket was 10K which was much easier to handle. I have had two major surgeries in the last 10 years and on both have negotiated the best deal with the hospital to pay my 20% on payments rather than cash up front. I hate using cash if someone will finance at 0%.

Wow, why was it not caught earlier -- specially if it was on his face and likely easily observed?

My dermatologist has a map of all the moles and spots on my body, from my toes to my scalp.