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Head vs Heart

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sparks1007

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
149
.... What do you do?! :(

I've seen this stone (via a very lovely PSer) and fallen in love. But, like the uber-cool beautiful but bad boy at school, it is totally the wrong type of stone. It's an I1 (visible from around 12" (I've scaled the photo on my phone and have been staring at it as real size for two days now. There's a crystal under the table and some feathers (GIA number below with image). It's cut so deep the HCA refuses to compute. It's over 1.6 carats but faces up only a little larger than a 1 carat. But it is absolutely stunning. The vendor is lovely (truly lovely) and I would, so far, recommend her to anyone. She's going to take it into her master setter/gemologist to check structural integrity so those concerns would be addressed.

The GIA cert adds up to (2155272199):

Cut: Old European Brilliant
Size: 6.7 x 6.98 x 5.6 mm
Carat weight: 1.63
Colour: Y-Z Light brown
Symmetry: Fair
Polish: Good
Fluorescence: Faint (yellow apparently)
Girdle: Thin to slightly thick
Table: 51%
Depth: 81.9%

Inspired by Diamondseeker2006's Van C setting I want a variation on that but without the swirls (it's the three little diamonds on the shoulder that I like) and with double pointed prong settings.

Here are some photos. The videos are lovely.

I know you'll all say steer clear but how do you reconcile logic with lust? Seriously. I love the kozibe effect. The colour is right up my street. It's so unusual and quirky. The size suits and set in yellow gold with some variation of millgrain and smaller diamonds I think it'll look lovely. The price is not too bad - I don't like to say as a fellow PSer put me on to it and I'm not sure the etiquette...

BUT, it's the bad boy at school so... :( Help!

stone_7.jpg

stone_8.jpg

stone_9.jpg

stone_10.jpg
 
I am NOT going to talk you out of that sexy little bad boy!!! If it were me , and I had the money, and I'd seen it IRL, and I fell in love, and I had nothing else holding me back from going forward on it because it just "pulled" at me in that way you just can't shake... I'd be saying "ADD TO CART"!! But... I'm kind of a bad influence that way... just sayin'! ;)) :wink2:

What I love about it:
the colour - UNIQUE!!
Kozibe
table
light play
faceting

What I am kind of "hmmm..." about it:
Depth - that's a lot of weight sunk into the trunk, IYKWIM...
inclusion (if that one pic is accurate and you can see at a normal distance

What I'd have to weigh between for my decision making habits:
price vs uniqueness
price vs value for money spent

What I can't resist:
that bad boy at the back of the class who goes against all I've been brought up to value... yet... when he smiles at me... you just turn in to a puddle on the floor. I think you've met your bad boy
1237356pr6q2nhnb7.gif


Hey - that's just my mind chattering on... !!
 
Old cuts are a bit of a law unto themselves. In theory there are many reasons on paper we should buy them or indeed they should look a million bucks, in reality an average stone on paper can be amazing in real life and a stone with amazing stats on paper can be a stinker in real life.

If it's structurally sound, a great price and you love it, then who cares. I think its unique, I love the colour of it, and the cut of it, if you love it that is what makes it beautiful. You need to work out how badly the inclusions bug you - that is the major drawback with the stone.... Bad boys rule, just as long as there are no long term regrets!!!!
 
Enerchi|1379255428|3521145 said:
I am NOT going to talk you out of that sexy little bad boy!!! If it were me , and I had the money, and I'd seen it IRL, and I fell in love, and I had nothing else holding me back from going forward on it because it just "pulled" at me in that way you just can't shake... I'd be saying "ADD TO CART"!! But... I'm kind of a bad influence that way... just sayin'! ;)) :wink2:

What I can't resist:
that bad boy at the back of the class who goes against all I've been brought up to value... yet... when he smiles at me... you just turn in to a puddle on the floor. I think you've met your bad boy
1237356pr6q2nhnb7.gif
Click to expand...

+1
I'm with Enerchi -- if you love it, then "ADD TO CART!" :bigsmile: :naughty:
Only you need to love it!! :praise:
 
You're the one wearing it, so sod the stats. If you love it that much and can afford it, I don't know what you're waiting for! I agree that it looks really pretty!

Enerchi - I love your moving pic of the bad boy. So funny!!! Where did you find it?
 
I wear a ring daily that has an eye visible inclusion. On paper I sounds terrible. Marquise, L color, I1 (OR WORSE) clarity. But it looks like a million bucks on the hand. And the inclusion doesn't district from the beauty of the stone. Also, no one notices.

My point? Your head should be thinking "buy what I love"


Because a diamond isn't an investment. Its a purchase to make your heart sing. If yours does with this stone it sounds like it should be yours.
 
HCA doesn't apply to OEC's - just modern RB's. :)

As long as it is structurally sound, and you love it, then there's no reason not to go for it. There's something to be said for a stone that makes your heart sing!
 
Oh, I remember those bad boys :sun: ...

With old cuts, I think it comes down to personal preference - some want as close to perfect as they can get in terms of light performance, cut quality, clarity etc, others are more forgiving...but I think if a person is really enamored by a particular old cut, and just really loves the look of it, that counts for a lot. You've also seen this stone in person, which matters too. I think this stone is really pretty, I love the color!

That said, the only thing that might give me pause is the depth. This is just me, but I would want my stone to face up at least close to it's weight. Interestingly, the inclusions don't bother me at all. But you sound like you're fine with it facing up smaller.

Have you shopped around a bit for old cuts? I'm just thinking if you are new to old cuts you might want to look around a bit more just to see if there's a stone out there that might speak to you even more.

But..you seem to really love this diamond, so if this stone is going to bring you joy, I say go for it! We can all have our opinions and preferences, but in the end your opinions and preferences are the only ones that matter. Let us know what you decide!

And oh, don't worry about the HCA for old cuts...it's designed for MRB's.

Enerchi: awesome emoticon find!!!
 
arkieb1|1379256074|3521153 said:
Old cuts are a bit of a law unto themselves. In theory there are many reasons on paper we should buy them or indeed they should look a million bucks, in reality an average stone on paper can be amazing in real life and a stone with amazing stats on paper can be a stinker in real life.

If it's structurally sound, a great price and you love it, then who cares. I think its unique, I love the colour of it, and the cut of it, if you love it that is what makes it beautiful. You need to work out how badly the inclusions bug you - that is the major drawback with the stone.... Bad boys rule, just as long as there are no long term regrets!!!!
Click to expand...

+1
Good luck making your decision :wavey:
 
Enerchi - thanks for the link! Brilliant!

Sparks - good luck with your decision!
 
For me its always money because after viewing this honey I would be all over it. If you got it cart it and wear it in good health.
 
My thought is if you have doubts or don't know about it then you probably shouldn't. Wait for one you can't say no too.
 
SB621|1379271710|3521270 said:
My thought is if you have doubts or don't know about it then you probably shouldn't. Wait for one you can't say no too.
Click to expand...

I'll agree with this. I'd be concerned about the depth, the inclusions, and it is very out of round. That would concern me a lot. But price has so much to do with this. If it is a steal of a deal, you could put it in a pendant or something if it is not too deep. I do think the color is pretty.
 
One more humble opinion and a thought: Gorgeous and intriguing color, loads of charm and character...easy to see why it's calling to you.

One more thought on the depth, though, apart from the face-up issue: I owned a dia that was of similar depth as this stone, and although I loved the stone/color, the depth made it sit up really high on the finger. No matter what I tried (smaller size, lower setting, shots in the shank, even a squared-off Euro shank), it constantly rolled and spun around and ended up driving me a little nuts. And so I wore it less and less, which isn't how jewelry's supposed to work. But if you're not thinking of putting this into a ring, then no worries, and even if you are putting it into a ring, it's just something to be mindful of when you choose a setting.

And as the others have mentioned, if it makes your heart sing and the $ are do-able, then seriously worth considering. Good luck!
 
Hi all. Thanks very much.

Enerchi- that emoticon is hilarious! I love it!

And I'm glad I'm not alone in my affections for the bad boys in days gone by.

I appreciate everyone's honesty. You're a great bunch. I agree, the inclusions are less of an issue as only one seems a bit obvious. The depth isn't ideal in that it does leave a lot in the trunk. But I also wonder if that's where the unusual colour and beautiful light play comes from.

I have to say, I haven't seen it irl but I've done a lot of looking at other stones. I can get this one set into a custom hand made ring (no CAD etc-just good old fashioned handy work) with smaller shoulder diamonds, 8 prongs and millgrain on shank and basket in 14k yg for $3000. I've struggled to find anything unusual for around that price. I'be found browner brilliant cuts and crushed ice cushions that face up the same size with smaller caratage but nothing unusual. What do people think? I have no doubt that it's beautiful but I don't want to buy something if it's a rip off. This is my first real world big (for me) diamond purchase so it would be good to hear if people's reaction is run away!!
 
Neat stone!

I don't have much to say but this: OMC's, more than any other old cut, will either totally tug at your heart strings or they won't. They're often wonky and rustic and a little silly and so quirky that people either love them with their whole hearts or they don't. There's rarely a middle ground on a stone like this.

I personally ADORE OMC's, and I also wear a brown OEC RHR and wouldn't sell it for anything in the world. The color makes me melt. And OMC's just feel like organic living things to me - my love of OMC's goes beyond the rational. It's just instinctive and chemical, lol. I can't not love them.

All that being said, I can't comment on this stone's price or anything along those lines, all I can say is that if you feel the price is fair (for any old cut, not just this one - just giving broad advice here), then my suggestion is to listen to your heart and trust your gut regarding the cut and color. The result will be a one of a kind ring that makes your heart sing!

Good luck with your decision!
 
If your concerned about price is go to some other well known old cut vendors. Say "heres a stone color and style I'm looking for, what can you do to find something similar for 3k". So what they find.
 
I am not sure where you get the impression this stone has rejection-worthy qualities, even on paper?

Clarity is a personal preference.

Color is a personal preference.

It has a GIA report so you can easily judge value. I would personally compare it to stones facing up similar size, regardless of weight, because that is the better comparison due to the cut of this stone: although carat usually determines price, I think in this case the depth is a detriment that should be accounted for in the price. Keep in mind this is a difficult stone to sell because of color, clarity, and shape. I tihnk you should bargain hard (PS I don't know who the seller is). My feeling is that anything under $3k is likely lower than retail value. Anything around $2k would be a steal. So in between those values would be fair in my own personal estimation. That is how I would consider pricing personally on a stone like this if I was considering it on ebay or similar.

Cut is the only remaining variable that I think has some level of "objective" standard for quality. Although deep, your photos do not show a nail head, but the photos may be chosen to minimize such an effect that could be present in real life. The under-table pavilion mains are large and prominant given the larger table. What you will want to see is that most of the mains are lit up at the same time, rather than most being dark at the same time. If it looks like it does in those photos most of the time, then I think you are ok. But you should only buy with a return period so you can evaluate the stone in person before the sale is final.
 
I love the OEC in your pictures. I know he's the bad boy but he's just gorgeous. Like everyone else has already said, you can't judge an OEC by the stats. You have to judge them with your eyes and your heart. Each one is unique and what I would love may not be your thing - there isn't a formula or a right answer.

After having a long head vs heart battle over my e-ring I do feel your pain. In the end, I think jewelery is completely a heart thing because there just isn't a reasonable explanation for your head.
 
Thanks again everyone.

Niel - advice taken and email sent

Ericad - I agree they can drive you to obsession. And worse. :d

iluvshinythings - thanks for sharing your own heart vs head conflict. I can see what a toughie it might be.

Dreamer D - thanks for the advice. You're right re it doesn't sound awful on paper. I guess a lot of people on here insist on Vs1/SI1 etc and clearly the depth is a negative (in respect of value for money in carat terms at least). So I guess that's where my concerns stem from. I have taken it all onboard. There are other photos which I might post for more comments on the cut quality. I agree that the more I look at stones the more I notice the big differences in cuts and how important it is. What do you mean by a nailhead? Is that when you get a black hole (not the culet) in the centre? A couple of other photos in the next post.

I'd just be grateful for any further comments as the photos below show it in other lighting situations.
 
Here are some additional photos. Some facets do appear a little dark but I can't tell if they're always the same ones?

stone_11.jpg

stone_12.jpg

stone_13.jpg

stone_14.jpg
 
SB621|1379271710|3521270 said:
My thought is if you have doubts or don't know about it then you probably shouldn't. Wait for one you can't say no too.
Click to expand...

Exactly. You need to find a stone where everyone else is saying, "But what about...?" and you have a retort to every single one of their points. You don't want to be the one noticing the problems, you want to be the one defending the quirks. :wink2:

For the record, I think that stone is stunning, and at a fair price I'd more than happily wear it. :))
 
Justginger - thank-you for your comment.

I need to clarify for those of you who have said that I need to love it. You're right. And I do. But this is the most I've spent ever on something like this (excluding car and house nothing has cost me this much... And I really like nice things!) so I just want to make sure I'm not missing any glaring indications that this may not be a decent bet.

I won't really be in a position to return it due to where I live. Plus, if I buy it unset it will sit in a safe for a year as I don't trust anyone here to set it. So, custom job means it can't be returned. I'm in it to win it.

This has nothing to do with my heart. That's screaming BUY BUY BUY!! It has everything to do with the fact that I'm a bit of a sensible bore sometimes who wants to buy something she loves just for kicks and cos she can!! :)

Thanks again all. Really helpful.
 
sparks1007|1379420281|3522212 said:
Justginger - thank-you for your comment.

I need to clarify for those of you who have said that I need to love it. You're right. And I do. But this is the most I've spent ever on something like this (excluding car and house nothing has cost me this much... And I really like nice things!) so I just want to make sure I'm not missing any glaring indications that this may not be a decent bet.

I won't really be in a position to return it due to where I live. Plus, if I buy it unset it will sit in a safe for a year as I don't trust anyone here to set it. So, custom job means it can't be returned. I'm in it to win it.

This has nothing to do with my heart. That's screaming BUY BUY BUY!! It has everything to do with the fact that I'm a bit of a sensible bore sometimes who wants to buy something she loves just for kicks and cos she can!! :)

Thanks again all. Really helpful.
Click to expand...

That's your answer. :))

I know it's a large purchase, but it's not prohibitively large - and since you're buying secondhand you're never going to eat the secondhand vs retail price gap. If you have a change of heart later, sell.
 
The heart wants what the heart wants!! Also, as someone already said, the HCA need not apply in a stone like this. I have different feelings on the face-up thing too. I've seen plenty of substantial looking princess cut engagement rings and thought to myself they must be HUGE because I know they face up smaller than rounds. I've been surprised a few times when the girls told me their diamonds were "around a carat." I don't think face-up is the only way to see the size of a diamond. Most people see it at an angle anyway.
 
A nail head is when almost all the pavilion mains go dark at once. I see it in some of the most recent photos you posts, particularly Stone_13. See how the whole center is dark? These more recent pics are not as positive. For me, it might be ok in a pendant but not a ring. Do not fall in love based on photos! You need to stay somewhat logical until you see it and can evaluate it IMO, if you want to take that chance/opportunity. I think there is a good chance it will often go dark under the table, seeing these more recent pics and the depth measurement.
 
sparks1007|1379412323|3522174 said:
Here are some additional photos. Some facets do appear a little dark but I can't tell if they're always the same ones?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if its always the same. You just don't want too many dark facets at once, it makes the center look dead and over dark.
 
Dreamer_D|1379442220|3522412 said:
A nail head is when almost all the pavilion mains go dark at once. I see it in some of the most recent photos you posts, particularly Stone_13. See how the whole center is dark? These more recent pics are not as positive. For me, it might be ok in a pendant but not a ring. Do not fall in love based on photos! You need to stay somewhat logical until you see it and can evaluate it IMO, if you want to take that chance/opportunity. I think there is a good chance it will often go dark under the table, seeing these more recent pics and the depth measurement.
Click to expand...

That.

Old cuts photograph beautifully. Those wonky proportions, large facets, and worn facet meets that look so charmingly quirky in still photos and turntable videos... and in this case that rich golden colour... may or may not translate into charm and quirk and colour and performance that you love IRL. And it's how you feel about it IRL that matters.

It's sorta like falling in love with a guy's online dating profile... it's a great start, but best keep your head screwed on tight until you actually meet him and hit it off in-person!
 
I totally agree that you have to see it to know. I would not even consider setting it until you have the chance to see it and return if you are not 100% in love with it.
 
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