Harry Winston... revisited...

[ginzagirl]

Hello again,

As you may have read a couple of weeks ago re: size/price negotiation with HW. Well, finally, I got an email with good news for the 1.33 E/VVS1. However, while I was waiting I thought of another route, which was to build my own ring. So I had another SA help with that. The person came back with good news on the pricing on F/VS range around 1.4-1.49 carats.

So, here is my dilemma: go with 1.33 or build my ring from scratch? I''ve decided that I don''t need to go too large at the moment because I can always upgrade in another 5 years as HW will be happy to allow that.

If I decide to build a ring from scratch, what sort of things should I look for in that cushion? I''ve heard that a 60% table is most ideal? Something that I''ve noticed with the two reports I received from HW last was that the 1.51 carats actually appeared smaller based on its measurements (6.76x6.45x4.13) vs the 1.33 carats (7.19x6.78x3.87.) I''ve read somewhere in this forum that some diamonds with smaller carat weight may look larger than ones that weigh more, is this correct?

One last question, what is the difference between a Cushion modified brilliant and a Cushion brilliant?

Many thanks again for your help.

 

[whatmeworry]

If you get to see them in person, pick the one that you like! There are no rules for cushions. See this link for the differences between brilliant and modified brilliant

 

[mrssalvo]

i agree, seeing which your eyes prefer is really the only way to judge. How much fun for you...I love the HW ring

 

[~*kalypso*~]

Hi ginzagirl!

I''m so glad you posted and have good news on the pricing from HW. If you don''t mind sharing, could you please let us know what % you were able to get off the rings in your price negotiations thus far?

I''ve also been sifting through many posts trying to find out the difference between cushion modified brilliant and cushion brilliant, which one was better, which plot was better, or actually if one is better than the other at all. It''s really very confusing and seems to be really based on personal preference. There is a video by Mark Turnowski in the Video Gallery where he states just a tiny bit about the difference about the C modified brilliant and the C brilliant, with his preference for the Cushion Brilliant I believe. I wish he would put out a Tutorial on Cushions! (Check out goodoldgold videos as well, but I don''t think they ever say what is a cushion modified brilliant cut and cushion brilliant, but show different types of looks and what is preferred by their customers. I THINK you can kind of figure out which ones are which if you watch all their videos on cushions.)

After I had seen that and seen a few examples of c modified brilliants and c brilliants here on pricescope and good old gold etc. next to their plots, I was sure I wanted a cushion brilliant with the HW micropave.

But when we went into Harry Winston, the SA told us the rings that we were looking at were cushion modified brilliants... and they were STUNNING!!! I did not look at any GIA reports there so I wasn''t able to see the plots

. I really regret that now!

Please keep us updated and show as many pictures as you can! I''ve been looking at AngelainJapan''s ring sooo many times, it''s just beautiful, I''d like to see other HW micropaves out there as well!

 

[ginzagirl]

Whatmeworry -thanks for the link.

Mrssalvo - I am unable to view the rings in person as I am not in the U.S. Btw, when is your ring ready (if I have not misread.)

Kalypso - I will share more info re: discount once I''ve made my decision and seal the deal (promise.) I think I''m beginning to understand the difference between the two now and I do know I love the C brilliant more. I do love chunky facets.

I am thinking that I should go for the 1.33 E now since it looks as though it faces up fairly large (7.19x6.78x3.87)- is this right????? So a table of 60% and depth??? is 57.1% seem safe?

It''s early Sunday in the U.S. so I can''t get anything done until the stores reopen on Monday!!! Hate the wait. Will be sure to keep you all posted.

Thanks for all your help so far.

 

[diamondfan]

I would get the already made ring if you can. You can upgrade through them at a later time if you wish which will also save you hassles when the time comes. And you know the ring will be stunning. I would just save myself the headaches and get the one I like.

 

[pixley]

Hi GG,

This video should give you a good overview of some of the different styles of cushions: http://www.goodoldgold.com/video/

Click on the one called, “1/4 million worth of Cushions in 5 diamonds, which would you buy?” and you can see 4 different types of cushions
1. Old Mine Brilliant (like Boston_Jeff’s, Pauly1’s xraydoc’s, dmarielevin’s or CrookedRock’s cushions)
2. Modified Cushion Brilliant with 4 pavilion mains (this one has a “crushed ice” appearance)
3. Modified Cushion Brilliant with 4 pavilion mains (also a “crushed ice” style cut)
4. Cushion Brilliant with 4 pavilion mains (like Soprano87’s or AngelainJapan’s Harry Winston Micropave cushion)
5. Cushion Brilliant with 8 pavilion mains (like Addlepated’s, MrsSalvo’s, Neatfreak’s or Bargaincrazy’s cushions)

I love the thread that whatmeworry provided above. This is also a good thread that may help you make sense of the different types of cushions out there: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-cushion-by-any-other-name.36001/

The cushion you are considering that has a 57% depth is facing up larger due to the low depth %, but if it looks good to you, trust your eyes. Cushion cuts are all over the place re: the numbers, so it’s impossible to judge just by the depth and table numbers alone. Many of the cushions that Mark Turnowski finds for people have tables in the 50s and depths in the mid 60’s, but there are fantastic cushions that fall outside those ranges as well. Regarding lower carat weight stones facing up larger than ones that have a higher carat weight, it’s good to note that an extremely thick girdle or depths in the high 60’s will result in carat weight that you won’t actually see in the spread of the diamond, thus, you’re paying for the additional weight, but you don’t get the benefits of any additional finger coverage. Just something to keep in mind when you’re looking at certs.

 

[CrookedRock]

Date: 3/23/2008 2:16:21 PM
Author: pixley

Hi GG,

This video should give you a good overview of some of the different styles of cushions: http://www.goodoldgold.com/video/

Click on the one called, “1/4 million worth of Cushions in 5 diamonds, which would you buy?” and you can see 4 different types of cushions
1. Old Mine Brilliant (like Boston_Jeff’s, Pauly1’s xraydoc’s, dmarielevin’s or CrookedRock’s cushions)
2. Modified Cushion Brilliant with 4 pavilion mains (this one has a “crushed ice” appearance)
3. Modified Cushion Brilliant with 4 pavilion mains (also a “crushed ice” style cut)
4. Cushion Brilliant with 4 pavilion mains (like Soprano87’s or AngelainJapan’s Harry Winston Micropave cushion)
5. Cushion Brilliant with 8 pavilion mains (like Addlepated’s, MrsSalvo’s, Neatfreak’s or Bargaincrazy’s cushions)

Hey pixley! thanks for remembering my lil'' guy!

JUst curious what makes it an Old Mine Brilliant. I am still to figure this one out... I thought it would have qualified with the #5 catagory... Thanks for your help! this is probably something I should know!

 

[pixley]

Oops, I should have clarified that, CR! That''s a really good point. The old mine brilliants like the one in the video are often called cushion brilliants on certs. I think Boston_Jeff''s and Cehrabehra''s are the only two stones that actually say, "Old Mine Brilliant" on the cert (Am I right, Pauly1?). Yours, mine and all the others I listed probably say "Cushion Brilliant" but they both have the 8 pavilion mains. I''ll try to post a picture of the different facet plots that match the old mine style and newer cushion brilliants (with the super chunky old school facets) and will put it up against the plots that match the modern cushion brilliants like MrsSalvo''s and the others... *off to go conjure up those charts...*

 

[pixley]

Ok, here we are. The top two plots can both be found on certs that describe the "old school style", chunkiest faceted cushions that we normally see on PS, like yours, Boston_Jeff's, Cehrabehra's, mine and Pauly1's. The bottom plot with a photo of Neatfreak's stone describes the new school chunky faceted cushions like MrsSalvo's, Addlepated's, etc. Buuuuut, the GIA can be tricky and sometimes throws whatever they want on the cert, so you may think you're getting an old school, but you open up the package and there's a new school one there. I once read that an old mine brilliant was sometimes labeled as such on stones where the crown is high, the table is smaller and culet is open, but I can't recall where that came from... All have 8 pavilion mains.

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 4:23:44 PM
Author: pixley
Ok, here we are. The top two plots can both be found on certs that describe the ''old school style'', chunkiest faceted cushions that we normally see on PS, like yours, Boston_Jeff''s, Cehrabehra''s, mine and Pauly1''s. The bottom plot with a photo of Neatfreak''s stone describes the new school chunky faceted cushions like MrsSalvo''s, Addlepated''s, etc. Buuuuut, the GIA can be tricky and sometimes throws whatever they want on the cert, so you may think you''re getting an old school, but you open up the package and there''s a new school one there. I once read that an old mine brilliant was sometimes labeled as such on stones where the crown is high, the table is smaller and culet is open, but I can''t recall where that came from... All have 8 pavilion mains.

True..., its all in the small nuances...

BTW..., you "new school plot" (bottom one)..., has 8 mains..., but they dont align with the 8 mains of the crown..., giving the stone a different appearance than the ones that do align..., and these types of faceting structure can never be identified as OMB''s...

 

[pauly1]

Date: 3/23/2008 4:03:24 PM
Author: pixley
Oops, I should have clarified that, CR! That''s a really good point. The old mine brilliants like the one in the video are often called cushion brilliants on certs. I think Boston_Jeff''s and Cehrabehra''s are the only two stones that actually say, ''Old Mine Brilliant'' on the cert (Am I right, Pauly1?). Yours, mine and all the others I listed probably say ''Cushion Brilliant'' but they both have the 8 pavilion mains. I''ll try to post a picture of the different facet plots that match the old mine style and newer cushion brilliants (with the super chunky old school facets) and will put it up against the plots that match the modern cushion brilliants like MrsSalvo''s and the others... *off to go conjure up those charts...*

Hey Pixley, yes you''re right. My stone is certified as "Cushion Brilliant", not "Old Mine".

 

[pixley]

Date: 3/23/2008 8:37:38 PM
Author: pauly1

Date: 3/23/2008 4:03:24 PM
Author: pixley
Oops, I should have clarified that, CR! That's a really good point. The old mine brilliants like the one in the video are often called cushion brilliants on certs. I think Boston_Jeff's and Cehrabehra's are the only two stones that actually say, 'Old Mine Brilliant' on the cert (Am I right, Pauly1?). Yours, mine and all the others I listed probably say 'Cushion Brilliant' but they both have the 8 pavilion mains. I'll try to post a picture of the different facet plots that match the old mine style and newer cushion brilliants (with the super chunky old school facets) and will put it up against the plots that match the modern cushion brilliants like MrsSalvo's and the others... *off to go conjure up those charts...*

Hey Pixley, yes you're right. My stone is certified as 'Cushion Brilliant', not 'Old Mine'.

Yup, chances are there won't be any Old Mine Brilliants to sift through. Most of the cushions on the market are modified brilliants and cushion brilliants.

Oh, and DiaGem: Thanks for adding the clarifying note about "new school cuts" not ever being referred to as OMBs ~ Thank heaven for that! Cushions are confusing enough as it is!

Ginza,
If you want to have a look at one example of a Cushion Modified Brilliant, do a search for BriBee's ring or check out her link: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-ring-take-two.74545/. She had her jeweler make an amazing HW style micropave with a split shank for her stone and it's reeeeeeally beautiful. Photos don't really do the modifieds the justice they deserve, and they just seem harder to capture on film than some of the non modified cushion cuts. They have tinier pinfire flashes of light that obscure the facets that we enjoy seeing in photos, but I've seen some in person and I think they can be so pretty and bright when well-cut.

 

[CrookedRock]

Pixley, thanks so much for the clarification. I''m finally getting it now! You could really spend a lifetime trying to figure out these cushions and the way they grade them!