HARRY POTTER 6!!

[fire&ice]

(( I don''t know how to create a horcrux; but, logic throughout the book would dictate that a spell/curse/incandation had to be performed - though not to say it couldn''t happen very quickly - and maybe in his haste he screwed up. A great point was made in HBP as to the chrono of what happened to lily & James. As for the soul, JKR is pretty straight forward with her stuff. I don''t think she would make the distinction between soul and concious (and it could be the horcrux is his scar tissue). Way too involved for a children''s book. DD has said he wasn''t sure why Harry has the connection. All his explaination says is that Volde was using very powerful magic & the outcome was unsure - a horcrux sure would fall into that category. Harry being a horcrux (or even the "scar" being the horcrux) makes sense. It explains why Harry feels the way he feel. It explains why he wasn''t killed (the horcrux transfered already upon him). It would explain why LOVE is his protection (he can''t succumb to Volde''s evil). It would explain why Volde has pocessed Harry (like the night of the snake - before then DD makes a point that Volde did not know Harry could get inside his head). It would explain why Volde can''t seem to kill Harry (above all Death is what Volde fears most - in his subconcious he would be killing himself) It would also be an explaination that would leave Volde near death when he tried to kill Harry - as mentioned - how much of this soul splitting can you do - and on a human no less. And, the prophecy supports this - regarding the two having to kill one or the other in the end. It just explains quite a bit of things that thus far has been inexplicable. And I ask myself, what doesn''t it explain? )) It''s just the most logical to me.

 

[Lord Summerisle]

ummm... does stuff from say OOTP need to be in white?

 

[blueroses]

Hmmm....Good question...since it came out in 2003, I think it could be fair enough to assume that anyone posting on a thread called Harry Potter 6 has--hopefully--read Harry Potter 5, but who knows! Anyone??

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/3/2005 6:48:59 PM
Author: Lord Summerisle
ummm... does stuff from say OOTP need to be in white?

Yes, if it relates to HBP. OOTP seems seminal in so many ways, especially to book 6 &7. Talk about an object like the one mentioned that couldn''t be opened has little to no relevance in the past - seminal to the future.

 

[sjz]

I guess we will all find out how close or far off our theories are in approx. 2 years when the last book in the series comes out. I think I posted this tidbit before, but on a Biography episdoe about JKR, she said that she had written the last chapter of the final book, and it was in a vault. I don''t think she has finished the entire book, from what I''ve heard and read she is still working on some of the "guts" of the story, but she already knows how the whole thing is going to end. According to her, the last chapter is kind of an epilouge, which will wrap up the entire series, and let us know where all of the major characters end up in the future. I read where JKR said that she had the entire saga worked out in her head, minus some minor details, before she had even started writing the first book! She has written copious notes full of backstory on all of the characters in the books, a lot of which never made it into the final versions. She is entertaining the idea of writing more in depth about some of the characters after she finishes with the Harry Potter books. I hope that she does! I think she is a fabulous writer, and her tales are so entertaining and absorbing.

On a side note, I have read quotes from JKR on more than one occasion that, while she doesn''t spend all that much time reading on the many fan websites devoted to the books, she does trawl around and read some of the theories and opinions that people have about the characters and the story lines, as well as the predictions about how things are going to turn out. The gist of what she has said in the quotes I''ve read are that she is constantly amazed at most of what the fans come up with, and a great deal of it is not anywhere close to what she was thinking and planning when writing the books. I also got the impression from reading her interviews that she feels that most of us "fans" seriously over-think it all...lol! I know that one reason I so look forward to each of the books is because I do like to try and predict and figure out what is going to happen next. Sometimes I''m pretty darned close, and sometimes I''m so far off the mark that I can''t believe it! I''ll let you all in on one guess of mine that I was so sure of, and it turned out to be totally ludicrous...I thought that there was every possibilty that DUDLEY DURSLEY was the Half-Blood Prince (obviously before I read the book...LOL!) If I wasn''t so embarrassed about how I got to THAT place, I''d explain it, but all I can say is that I must have been unknowingly taking drugs when I came up with that idea...

 

[fatafelice]

This is SO awesome!!! I don''t normally visit the Hangout, but I wish I had seen this thread earlier. I love hearing theories and I don''t have anyone else to talk to about HP right now. My BF has only seen the movies, but I even re-read books 4 and 5 in preparation for 6 (which I ordered in January!). My 7th grade students even think I''m obsessed!

((It never even occured to me that Harry was a horcrux, but I think it is a very interesting idea! It does go a way into explaining the connection between Harry and Voldemort.

I was very sad to see DD die...yes, I cried...but I found this on the web and it has some interesting theories about that, with clues from all the books. There is one very important note about a line said by DD in the American version that is missing from the English one. It is several pages...way to long to post...but very fun to read!

http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com/

As for Crookshanks, I haven''t read the Fantastic Creatures books yet, but JKR says right on her website that if you have read them, then you would know that Crookshanks is half "Kneazle." It makes me want to get the book just so I can find out what a kneazle is! But that does make it seem unlikely that C. is an animagus.))

Keep the theories coming!!!

And if you are feeling pretty geeky (or at least as geeky as me!), check out JKR''s own website...it is pretty cool.

http://www.jkrowling.com

 

[sjz]

Date: 8/4/2005 12:48:39 AM
Author: fatafelice
This is SO awesome!!! I don''t normally visit the Hangout, but I wish I had seen this thread earlier. I love hearing theories and I don''t have anyone else to talk to about HP right now. My BF has only seen the movies, but I even re-read books 4 and 5 in preparation for 6 (which I ordered in January!). My 7th grade students even think I''m obsessed!

((It never even occured to me that Harry was a horcrux, but I think it is a very interesting idea! It does go a way into explaining the connection between Harry and Voldemort.

I was very sad to see DD die...yes, I cried...but I found this on the web and it has some interesting theories about that, with clues from all the books. There is one very important note about a line said by DD in the American version that is missing from the English one. It is several pages...way to long to post...but very fun to read!

http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com/

As for Crookshanks, I haven''t read the Fantastic Creatures books yet, but JKR says right on her website that if you have read them, then you would know that Crookshanks is half ''Kneazle.'' It makes me want to get the book just so I can find out what a kneazle is! But that does make it seem unlikely that C. is an animagus.))

Keep the theories coming!!!

And if you are feeling pretty geeky (or at least as geeky as me!), check out JKR''s own website...it is pretty cool.

http://www.jkrowling.com

Thanks for posting that website! It kind of jived with some of the things I''ve been thinking. And I''m going to bite the bullit here, and not post in code...I doubt if anyone who hasn''t read the book at this point is even bothering to read this thread, and if they are, too bad...lol. They should be READING the book instead of a thread about it anyway. About kneazles...they are an animal that looks almost exactly like a cat, but are much more clever and tricky than regular cats. They are considered to be "magical" animals because of their special abilities in the cleverness department. They are even required to be registered with the Ministry, just in case they fall into the hands of a muggle who might mistake them for a regular cat. Crookshanks is supposedly half kneazle. I don''t see why the fact that he''s half kneazle would preclude him from being the animal incarnation of an animagus. Half kneazle or not, he''s still an animal, after all.

Anyway, glad you found this thread and posted! I love the HP books, and I love to discuss them. I''ve read them all at least twice, with the exception of the HBP, which I think I''m going to have to re-read now, because of all these great theories! Until now, the only person I had to discuss them with was my 13 year old nephew. He and I concur on most of the ideas I''ve posted here, and he even helped me come up with a couple of them. As far as feeling geeky, I''ve always been pretty geeky, and being a HP fan doesn''t make me feel any more geeky than I already do.

 

[Shay]

Just thought I''d pop in and mention that apparently the very last word of the series... the last word in book 7... is "scar".

hypothesize away.

 

[Rockchick]

that is a fun website

(( i.e. www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com Very inetersting stuff about the portrait of DD aappearing on the wall

"Does it state anywhere in a Harry Potter book that you have to be dead to be on the wall in the headmaster's office? I can't prove this, but I think it's just more likely the only requirement is you have to be a former headmaster, and it just so happens all of the former headmasters previous to Dumbledore are currently dead."

"Yes, we see it says Dumbledore joined the ranks of the dead headmasters. But that doesn't necessarily mean he is dead, it just means the others of the ranks he was joining were dead"

and about Snape

"But Snape had gotten to his feet and strode to the small window, peered through the curtains, and then closed them again with a jerk. He turned around to face Narcissa, frowning. (HBP pg 32/37)
What happened to make him jerk the curtains closed all of a sudden and turn back to the women, frowning? Has he had a revelation?
Having just been on the verge of spilling the beans to Snape, Draco's assignment must have been top-most in Narcissa's thoughts, and in the quiet moment at the window, Snape saw it in her mind. He then lies to them about already knowing the plan, to gain their trust."

"If Snape Didn't Fulfill The Unbreakable Vow, Why Isn't He Dead?
I believe if you re-read all of Chapter 2, you will see that the exact details of Draco's task are never spoken outloud in that scene, we only learn of the details later.If the exact nature of what Snape's promising to do are not spoken exactly, but possibly only an understanding between the parties, what promise is he held to, exactly?
One of Draco's main tasks was to fix the vanishing cabinet so he could sneak his Death Eater pals into Hogwarts. Perhaps that's what Snape vowed to help with, and in that case, Draco suceeeded, so Snape's off the hook."))

this is not my theory, just copied it from that website...

 

[Lord Summerisle]

ok, some thoughts, before going through that site mentioned...

((Going back to the HP/Horcruix thingy - i''m still not convinved about this... go back to the fight in the ministry - Riddle possessed Harry and invited Dumbledore to finish him off (that would then result in Riddle having 2 parts of his soul together again - not something i think Riddle would risk, nor would he be so flippant tho i''m sure he was gambling on bullying AD into allowing him to escape with possessing HP and a distraction - each of the pieces of Riddles soul so far found have been well hidden and protected in the way Tom thinks best - something to his downfall as AD knows him too well - also the proficy - one can only live when the other dies - hence if HP has a part of Riddls soul in him.... HP dieing would kill part of Riddle - killing the current form of Vol and the other cruixes would still leave Riddle existing in potter.

I think it is currently more faverable that Riddle planned to use the death of HP to create his final Hcruix in a special object - the deaths of Lilly and James where just a side show - a means to an end... for Riddle at least - in that he fuililled the part of the prophisy he knew about - and in doing so finished breaking his soul into 7 parts)

my thoughts also come - if potter was to be the death to create the final breaking of the soul then.. there where only 6 parts - one which was distroyed in the diary - 2 (or is 3?) have been distroyed... one is missing...

on the snape thing - hmm remember when HP was taking lessions from snape - when Snape entered his mind HP saw what S was seeing - no mention of this is made while S is at the curtains... N would suddenly see what TR had ordered draco to do... tho her being in the state she was - was probly visualising it anyway... but i read it as S had his back to the room.. and hence - normally it seems to cast the spell - eye contact needs to be made - in the lessions S maintains eye contract - in the fight before he leaves - he is looking at HP - reading his mind to see what spells to be deflected... and there is the gentle reminders for potter to train his mind - i think in a typical S way - put HP down to force his hand... ))

i''ll think of more later...

 

[Lord Summerisle]

added:

((just read this bit...

"But Snape had gotten to his feet and strode to the small window, peered through the curtains, and then closed them again with a jerk. He turned around to face Narcissa, frowning." (HBP pg 32/37)
What happened to make him jerk the curtains closed all of a sudden and turn back to the women, frowning? Has he had a revelation?

there - S WAS looking at N before speaking - allowing him to read her mind... ))

 

[fire&ice]

Yes, she said a while ago that scar was the last word in her last book. She did mention that it may change. And, it could be benign & just something that comes full circle. Or something else.

I''m still holding to my theory about HP. Can anyone else explain why HP & Volde has such a strong connection? I''ve never seen it explained logically. Honestly, point me to any passage.

Also, if crookshanks is half magical then how did Hermione (a muggle) obtain her? I''ve forgotten. Or have they ever said?

This passage is the crux of my thinking. ((...speaking of volde not knowing that Harry can see his thoughts, etc. DD says "But he knows it now. You have flitted into Lord Voldemort''s mind without damage to yourself, but he cannot possess you without enduring mortal agony, as he discovered in the Ministry. I do not think he understands why, Harry, but then, he was in such a hurry to mutilate his own solu, he never paused to understand the incomparable power of a soul that is untarnished and whole." pg 511))

Another thing that I have no answer for - but is VERY important in the book ((Why did Voldemort (who at the time looked pretty bad from already starting to split his soul some) go to Hogwarts under the guise of asking for a teaching position. He knew DD would refuse. The book makes a point of him raising his wand slightly. So, what was he doing? - Any thoughts? ))

 

[Rockchick]

Hermione bought croockshanks in the POA, remember? She bought him in DA...

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/4/2005 12:43:43 PM
Author: Rockchick

Hermione bought croockshanks in the POA, remember? She bought him in DA...

Interesting forshadowing? considering who that book was about.

Thanks as I don''t remember.

 

[abradabra]

All these theories have been really interesting and I fully intend on contributing to the discussion more fully when I''ve had the chance to digest it all and come up with thoughtful replies.

I remember reading a HP forum when that magical creature book came out (and admittedly, I haven''t read it, but I''m going to trust the eagle-eyed Harry Potter readers because, golly day, they know SO much about the books). Anyway, the frequent posters all had a collective "Aha!" moment when they read the book that Crookshanks was part kneazle. Apparently, it stated that kneazles frequently liked to interbreed with cats. If that''s true, it would be easy to assume that many cats are actually part kneazle. We, as muggles, just don''t know it...

Didn''t Hermione get Crookshanks in Diagon Alley? If she did, it seems even more likely (a wizarding world cat would be even more likely to have some kneazle in it than a regular cat)... If not, it still makes it highly plausible...

If you look at the definition of a kneazle "This very intelligent cat-like creature can detect unsavory or suspicious persons very well and will react badly to them. However, if a kneazle takes a liking to a witch or wizard, it makes an excellent pet. The kneazle has spotted fur, large ears, and a lion-like tail." (An excerpt from the fantastic beasts book I found on the internet), it would make sense that Hermione would end up with Crookshanks because she is the opposite of unsavory/suspicious, so he''d choose her more than the other way around.

 

[Rockchick]

I never read the magical creature book but how is this for a kneazle

?

 

[blueroses]

LOL!!!! ROckchick, I think your baby is a kneazle!!! Yep, Hermione bought Crookshanks after she already knew she was a witch (at Diagon Alley, as others have said.)


(((So.... when VOldie went back to visit DD to ostensibly ask for the DADA position, was he really there to attempt to create another horcrux on the Hogwarts grounds? Hmmmm.....we do know he started to raise his wand, so.....)))

 

[fire&ice]

Rockchic - I think he''s a retired kneasel.

We had a cat like that. We lost him last year. He lived a ripe old age of about 17-18 years.

regarding the visit to hogwarts ((I don''t know why TR visited DD. Anyone have any theories? Logic would seem that he wanted something to make into a horcrux. And, of course, my out there conspiracy theories would maybe point to Hogwarts itself. In the book DD made a point that TR never had a home. "he was most comfortable at Hogwarts & it was the only home he knew". Then DD says = much like harry - I don''t know any crazy theories? Or logical ones on why he visited Hogwarts & DD when his stated purpose was clearly not his purpose - I just think this visit is very important))

 

[sjz]

Date: 8/4/2005 5:35:06 PM
Author: fire&ice
Rockchic - I think he''s a retired kneasel.

We had a cat like that. We lost him last year. He lived a ripe old age of about 17-18 years.

regarding the visit to hogwarts ((I don''t know why TR visited DD. Anyone have any theories? Logic would seem that he wanted something to make into a horcrux. And, of course, my out there conspiracy theories would maybe point to Hogwarts itself. In the book DD made a point that TR never had a home. ''he was most comfortable at Hogwarts & it was the only home he knew''. Then DD says = much like harry - I don''t know any crazy theories? Or logical ones on why he visited Hogwarts & DD when his stated purpose was clearly not his purpose - I just think this visit is very important))

Here''s my thoughts on why he made the visit to Hogwarts ((pretty much just what it looks like...he wanted to be in a place where he would be most able to get his hands on the founder''s relics to use for his Horcruxes. It''s pretty apparent that he was already planning and actively carrying out the plan to make the Horcruxes by then..I also think that Hogwarts probably really did feel the most like home to him, since that''s where he spent the happiest of his formative years. Maybe in a way, he even looked to DD as a father figure, much like Harry ))

 

[fire&ice]

BUT......((Was he able to get a horcrux during that visit? He knew he wasn''t going to be invited to stay. The most obvious is the Gryf. sword. Yes, it seems he was already creating his horcrux as noted by his appearance. He had to have done something during that visit. Why would JK write a whole chapter on it? Simply- was it just a way of "catching" up with TR turned LV? ))

In that interview with the website leakycauldron she said she was taking a year off. Then honing the final book. So, I guess we will have to wait 2 more years.

Also, from the interview - what are "shippers"?

 

[fatafelice]

I think "shippers" are people who feel very strongly that they have found evidence to support what they hope will happen. The shippers that people mostly talk about are the Harry/Hermione ones who apparently believed that those two should and would end up as a couple. I "think" that''s it, but I could be wrong.

 

[sjz]

Date: 8/5/2005 9:55:53 AM
Author: fire&ice
BUT......((Was he able to get a horcrux during that visit? He knew he wasn't going to be invited to stay. The most obvious is the Gryf. sword. Yes, it seems he was already creating his horcrux as noted by his appearance. He had to have done something during that visit. Why would JK write a whole chapter on it? Simply- was it just a way of 'catching' up with TR turned LV? ))

In that interview with the website leakycauldron she said she was taking a year off. Then honing the final book. So, I guess we will have to wait 2 more years.

Also, from the interview - what are 'shippers'?

((I think that the purpose of showing us the visit to DD's office to ask for the position of Dark Arts Teacher was to establish the timeline and show that Voldemort was already well on his way to creating his Horcruxes at that time, as witnessed by his appearance when DD saw him that night. I also think that JKR wanted us to see that scene because it establishes a reason for the "curse" upon the position of Dark Arts Teacher at Hogwarts. We already knew that Snape had coveted that position for a long time, and that DD didn't want him to have the position. I think that it's been widely assumed that DD hadn't given the position to Snape in the past because he didn't trust him...but DD has always maintained a position that he DID trust Snape. I think that this scene is to show us that DD had another reason for not wanting to give the position to Snape. He felt that Voldemort had cursed the position when it was denied to him, and DD was trying to save Snape from following into the same fate as the previous teachers in that position. It's been brought to our attention in the past, in GOF I think, that the reason Snape was safe from Voldemort's wrath and from being sent to Azkaban with the other former Death Eater's was because of his position as a teacher at Hogwarts. DD knows this, and also knows that if he had allowed Snape to become the Dark Arts teacher, he might have been doomed to only one last year at Hogwarts, thus removing any protection that he had as a Hogwarts teacher and would become vulnerable to Voldemort. If we are to asssume that Snape has been working for The Order, and not for Voldemort, at least in DD's mind, DD would have wanted to protect him for as long as he could. This supports the theory that Snape and DD had planned DD's "death" together, because it may have all been part of a bigger plan, and DD had intentionally placed Snape in the position of Dark Arts Teacher, knowing that this was probably going to be the final outcome.I think the the title of this book..Half Blood Prince, and the character to whom it refers is significant for a reason. I think that Snape's part in this entire saga is much more important than just being Harry's antagonist or DD's murderer. We'll just have to wait and see what else is in store for Snape, because I don't think that we've seen the last of him, or Draco Malfoy for that matter, either.))

 

[fatafelice]

((I agree that there is much more to Snape, or atleast I hope there is...though it really made me think after all the things JKR said about the possiblity of DD making mistakes. It is possible that he was wrong about Snape all along -- that Snape has had his own agenda or Volde''s? Have there been any other characters who really trusted him or liked him on their own, not just because they trusted DD''s judgement? Other than Draco, et. al., I mean.))

 

[fire&ice]

All interesting logic. Hubby is reading the book. He''s about 1/2 the way through............and is convinced ((Voldemort is the hbp & Snape will die - poor thing - he''s going to be in for a shock. JKR made a point that Snape will be strongly featured in this one and the next one. So, I''m sure there is more than meets the eye.........at least i hope so. Makes sense TR visited to show timeline and transformation ))

 

[MissAva]

Okay so my little brother finished it and left me with it yesterday. I am sad about how short it was...I was hoping it would be longer. I finished it last night. Over all I think it was more gossipy then the others. I will be intreasted to see how the three of them leaving Hogwarts plays out in the next one.

 

[coconut]

It took me long because I had to reread from book 4 to get back into the program....lol but I had been DYING to read this thread anc I''m so glad this is the first time I read it!! Such keen predictions!!

((

2 things:

(1) Dumbledore did not truly die
(2) Snape is not truly with Lord Voldemort


First of all, I trust DD''s judgement about Snape being honest with him.... I don''t recall Dumbledore being wrong about ppl. He judged correctly how Tom Riddle was up to no good regardless of what other professors thought...etc..

Secondly, the whole theme of the PHEONIX at the end suggests me to believe that DD is not truly dead. Where was the Pheonix when Dumbledore was dying?? The Pheonix has on several occasions saved Harry (a true loyal follower of DD) from the chamber of secrets and Dumbledore himself at the Ministry of Magic in Book 5. It''s weird that the Pheonix didn''t come to save DD in true peril when they were on Hogwarts ground..Unless everything was a planned event.

I also think the Pheonix in a way symbolizes DD. What is up with the white smoke looking like a shape of a pheoniix when DD''s body burned before the coffin closed and the white tomestone appeared? I''d like to think it was symbolizing that DD was rebirthed at the moment... or a sign to tell those who are observant enough to recognize that he is not truly dead. He is merely pretending to be dead, or with great power will rebirth into something else... a power that will protect Harry Potter and Hogwarts with love.....

Also it is briefly mentioned in DD''s attempt to bring Malfoy to the good side. Remember when he was telling Malfoy that the order can protect him and his mom.. even his dad after he came out of Azkaban so well that Voldemort wouldn''t be able to know they were alive? He mentiones that Voldemort can not kill something that is already dead! (or appears to have died) I thought this suggested that there was a way to make it seem like a person was dead without being DEAD.

This is also where Snape''s true identity comes in. When DD begs, ".Severus...Please..." at the end.. he is pleading for Snape to go through with the plot they had planned. Yes DD was pleading alright.. but he was NOT pleading for his life. Remember when Hagrid overheard DD and Snape argue in the forest?

"I was comin'' outta the forest the other evenin'' an'' I overheard ''em talking -- well, arguin''. ... I jus'' heard Snape sayin'' Dumbledore took too much fer granted an'' maybe he -- Snape -- didn'' wan'' ter do it anymore ... Dumbledore told him flat out he''d agreed ter do it an'' that was all there was to it."

Hagrid mentions what he heard to Harry... which means DD had a plan... with SNAPE... and perhaps at the end DD was pleading to SNAPE to carry on the plan

On this note, Harry and Snape has faced similar situations in the book. Both of them had to follow DD''s orders even if they didn''t want to.
Harry had to SHOVE the green potion down DD because he promised to obey DD''s orders...
and SNAPE had to "kill" DD even if he didn''t want to becuase he had agreed to DD to follow the plan....

DD''s goal after all, was to protect Harry and his students...including Malfoy.

))

 

[Blue824]

Ok, so SJZ I was realy intrigued with your theory on Crookshanks, actually, I thought it was great....so i shared it with my friend, who is an HP fanatic and she was like no i know that is wrong, but she couldnt remember where she had seen Rowlings say so. So out of the blue just now, like over a week after i brought this up to her i get an email like I FOUND IT! haha and here is the link, it will debunk that whole thing.

http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/rumours_view.cfm?id=7

thats from her official site.

booo...i liked that theory!

 

[icekid]

oh, too bad... I liked the crookshanks theory too!

 

[sjz]

hmmmm, but Professor McGonnagal can transform into a cat, but I don''t think SHE is an animagus, is she? I''ll have to look into that a little more, whether witches and wizards can transform into the form of an animal without being an animagus. I reaaaaaaallllllly want Crookshanks to be something more than he is. Guess I''ll have to buy that other book and see if I can figure it out!

 

[sjz]

oh, man...just looked back in the very first book. McGonnagal is an animagus. Shoot. Now I have to figure out the deal with Crookshanks. Off to the bookstore tomorrow.