H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerned?

[babydoll_mini]

hihi experts, really need some help here, so I found a GIA 3EX stone that has the following statistics:

H SI1 0.37ct
4.64 - 4.65 x 2.83 mm
Depth 61.0%
Table 56%
Crown Angle 34.0°
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 75%
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted, 3.0%
clarity characteristics: Twinning Wisp, Feather

HCA score: 0.9 E-E-E-vg

Price seems all right to me.

I'm buying this stone blind (without seeing the actual stone), and the retailer told me the foreigh vendor said "this diamond has brownish tone to its body color".
Shall I be concerned? or shall I pull the trigger regardless?


Thank you very much!

 

[Ashleigh]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

If it's discounted compared to similar stones, then I won't mind. Else I'll keep looking. But that's me cos I don't mind brown body hue. But others do. So it's really up to you.

 

[babydoll_mini]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

i don't know if the price should be considered "discounted"

it is 1900 USD per carat with 12% extra discount, thus 1900 * 0.37 * 0.88 = 618 usd
it is substantially cheaper than some of the H&A in-house diamond i can find in pricescope though.

 

[babydoll_mini]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

I guess my question really is: will I notice any visual difference given that H stone is brown body colored rather than yellow, when face up or slightly tilted? If the difference is only noticeable when viewing from side I guess I should be fine with it. Anyone seen a brownish stone next to a yellowish one with same color grade side by side? I'm not talking about m or n color, in which I suppose the body color will be more noticeable, but what about H? Thank you very much!

 

[John P]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

I'm buying this stone blind (without seeing the actual stone), and the retailer told me the foreigh vendor said "this diamond has brownish tone to its body color". Shall I be concerned? or shall I pull the trigger regardless?

I'd wager it's coming from an Indian supplier based on current sourcing trends. My first thought is kudos to your retailer, as there are some who withhold such comments from the end consumer. My second thought is that it may be prominent enough that it's a must-tell.

The majority of cases I've seen are slight, just noted by trained eyes in a lab viewing (which is upside down) and of little influence when mounted. But I've seen others where anyone familiar with diamonds can pick it up in diffused lighting, in any orientation. Like eye-clean, it's a diamond to diamond judgment which isn't static; it's on a sliding scale.

i don't know if the price should be considered "discounted" it is 1900 USD per carat with 12% extra discount, thus 1900 * 0.37 * 0.88 = 618 usd it is substantially cheaper than some of the H&A in-house diamond i can find in pricescope though.

Is this claimed as a H&A diamond? If so, how is the judgment being made and communicated to you?

I guess my question really is: will I notice any visual difference given that H stone is brown body colored rather than yellow, when face up or slightly tilted? If the difference is only noticeable when viewing from side I guess I should be fine with it. Anyone seen a brownish stone next to a yellowish one with same color grade side by side? I'm not talking about m or n color, in which I suppose the body color will be more noticeable, but what about H? Thank you very much!

See the above. I'd love to provide a decisive answer, but there is no way to know without the diamond in-hand.

Is there a good examination period and return policy?

 

[Ashleigh]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

If it's a body hue, it's all throughout. The stone will face up darker in some lighting, slight peach color in some lighting, no effect in some lighting. Not just a tint from the sides. I think you should consider another similar stone without the brown hue since you can't be sure if your gf will mind it.

 

[John P]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

If it's a body hue, it's all throughout. The stone will face up darker in some lighting, slight peach color in some lighting, no effect in some lighting. Not just a tint from the sides. I think you should consider another similar stone without the brown hue since you can't be sure if your gf will mind it.

This depends on saturation specifics
This depends on tone specifics
This depends on cut-quality (light transmission) specifics

The results of those components above, indeed, will react to the light source, the environment and the observer

One extreme: If there is potent saturation of dark br tone, with cut having some light entrapment/leakage - and you're standing in white diffused lighting wearing a brown T-shirt - there will definitely be observable tint (br) face up.

The other: If there is sparse saturation of light br tone, with top cut quality for short ray paths - and you're standing under spotlighting in a white T-shirt - the effects will be negligible.

 

[canuk-gal]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

HI:

There is an informative video on GOG site--comparing body color; yellow, brown and grey. Have a look!

cheers--Sharon

 

[Ashleigh]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

If it's a body hue, it's all throughout. The stone will face up darker in some lighting, slight peach color in some lighting, no effect in some lighting. Not just a tint from the sides. I think you should consider another similar stone without the brown hue since you can't be sure if your gf will mind it.

This depends on saturation specifics
This depends on tone specifics
This depends on cut-quality (light transmission) specifics

The results of those components above, indeed, will react to the light source, the environment and the observer

One extreme: If there is potent saturation of dark br tone, with cut having some light entrapment/leakage - and you're standing in white diffused lighting wearing a brown T-shirt - there will definitely be observable tint (br) face up.

The other: If there is sparse saturation of light br tone, with top cut quality for short ray paths - and you're standing under spotlighting in a white T-shirt - the effects will be negligible.

Wow, John, thanks for your sharing. I didn't know that's so much knowledge behind what I observed in my stone. I don't fully understand all that you wrote but will read a few more times to see if I can glean more knowledge. My stone is top cut, so light brown that it wasn't even mentioned in the cert. I think it belongs to your second extreme description.

ETA: I understand saturation refers to amount of browness, cut refers to diamond cut quality but tone specifics is not about the diamond but rather the environment right?

 

[John P]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

Wow, John, thanks for your sharing. I didn't know that's so much knowledge behind what I observed in my stone. I don't fully understand all that you wrote but will read a few more times to see if I can glean more knowledge. My stone is top cut, so light brown that it wasn't even mentioned in the cert. I think it belongs to your second extreme description.

Hi Ashleigh. Happy to help!

I'll see if I can elaborate more?

Saturation, tone and hue are components we use to assess colored diamonds. In the case of this diamond, in the normal color range, we're familiar with what H implies but must assess the level of Saturation (strength) and Tone (lightness or darkness) of the brown component. The "H" already gives us some clue as to Saturation but, like normal H+ and H- span a sliding scale, Saturation can vary. On top of that is the body Tone; whether the brown component is closer to khaki or to chocolate. Clearly the collective components were not enough to kick it to a category outside "H" color, but these things can vary noticeably and we don't know the exact look without seeing the exact diamond.

If we were in a dealer's office it's a simple matter of flipping it over into a color-card and examining it under the grading lamp, then tweezing it around to see how it faces by comparison. Two different real-world looks. But without the specific diamond in-hand it's impossible to say how it actually appears.

It does sounds like your baby falls into the light category, along with nice cut.

 

[John P]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

ETA: I understand saturation refers to amount of browness, cut refers to diamond cut quality but tone specifics is not about the diamond but rather the environment right?

Here's a video by John King @ GIA describing our "three dimensional" colored diamond world.

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?c=G...ail&cid=1363399122901&pagename=GST/Dispatcher


GIA's primary graphic here is a great visual illustration of how much variation is possible within the "sphere". A colored diamond can literally be any place inside of it. It's how a grader of colored diamonds arrives at descriptions such as "Fancy Light" or "Fancy Dark" (tone) "Bluish-Green" or "Orangy-Pink" (hue) and "Intense" or "Vivid" (saturation).

In the case of this thread we know the hue and saturation are at some degree of yellow-brown somewhere within the sliding H scale. We have no idea about tone.

 

[Ashleigh]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

Hi John, thanks for your additional explanation, video and diagram. They were very helpful. I used to see that 3D diagram with arrows on certs of fancy diamonds and could never understand. I now have a better understanding of that diagram.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

As Sharon said, this is well worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YizGfSIisJE

 

[John P]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

As Sharon said, this is well worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YizGfSIisJE

That video is a terrific example of near-white, yellow, brown and gray hue-trends in the normal color range.

For the OP: As it relates to this thread, the N in the video will have significantly more saturation than the 0.77 H. The tone of Rhino's brown diamond could also be different than the 0.77.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

John, I think I found one to show her what the brown tone looks like in H color. I have spotted them many times using James Allen's new videos.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.51-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-180260

 

[John P]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

John, I think I found one to show her what the brown tone looks like in H color. I have spotted them many times using James Allen's new videos.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.51-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-180260

Brilliant. If it were being considered for purchase I'd urge a consumer to ask Jim or one of his staff about how visible what we're seeing here is, non-magnified, but that is a great example of H level saturation and middle tone in a video.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

OP: if you can return it easily, it is worth seeing in person. Color perception depends so much on the observer, and in a n H color I am not sure its a huge risk that you will hate it or notice the tint.

 

[babydoll_mini]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

Thank you thank you everyone so very much for the insightful input and the very cool videos!! Now I really have some idea how a brownish H will look like, guess I'm going to pass this one as i cannot return it if it doesn't turn out to be a winner. Better safe than sorry Thank you guys again!!

This body color thing has only occured to me very very recently, (i'm grateful to the local retailer for disclosing that) and before I even know, let me see, i already purchased 5 H color diamonds, from whiteflash and jamesallen. 4 of them are already set, 1 still in loose status. I tried to see the loose one flipped on a white paper, but without a reference, it is really difficult to tell if the tint is a light brown or yellow Not to mention those already set, guess it's even harder to find out. Now I have one more thing to boggle my mind

 

[JulieN]

Re: H color diamond with brownish tone, should I be concerne

this thread has all been highly educational, but as you said, you already have a handful of Hs that you cannot tell what color it is once set. So unless yellow ranks higher than brown on your ranking list of colors by preference, I don't see how it really makes a difference. Personally, the only color that I would not accept is a greenish gray, I think it is ugly but it is my own personal preference.