Grandparent and Discipline Conflict

[clockwork]

Hi, longtime lurker here.

Problem: Grandparent seems to love grandchild (who is almost two years old). However - grandparent is of the school of belief that a good way to discipline children is to use statements such as:

a) "Sometimes you''re really stupid" (said seriously, and directed at child who was fussing about having nose wiped).

b) "Look! Now I''m acting like Grandchild!" (grandparent starts pretending to cry and says "No!No!No" while grandchild is seated across from grandparent). In this case, I think the grandparent was attempting to mock the grandchild''s behavior.

c) "You make me really, really sad when you don''t do X" (X is again usually something de minimis, e.g., nose wiping, or not changing into outerwear quickly enough). This is usually performed with a loud voice and some amount of histrionics.

Grandparent is extremely unlikely to change behavior as this behavior is typical of the grandparent''s general M.O. We have gently asked the grandparent to stop "parenting" but that hasn''t stopped the behavior. We correct and redirect the grandparent immediately when these sorts of situations arise (and we acknowledge to our child that this behavior is wrong) but that doesn''t stop the grandparent''s repeated attempts at disciplining.

Therefore:

Given that the grandparent sees the grandchild say, 6 or 7 times a year (for about week long stretches) - and given that we DO let the child know that we find this particular form of behavior unacceptable - how harmful is it for the grandchild to have exposure to the grandparent?

We do intend to follow cues as best we can from our child -- who, by the end of the visit, was apprehensive about being left alone with grandparent. But our child also expressed that she missed the grandparent after the grandparent left. And there are times when the grandparent CAN be loving and charming and playful - so long as the grandchild is meeting the grandparent''s expectations.

Thanks in advance for any insight into this situation.

 

[vespergirl]

I totally understand your situation. My parents are also from the generation of "shame based parenting," and I swore to myself that I would never leave my kids alone with them for extended periods of time (more than a couple of hours). I have also sat my parents down to talk to them about the difference in our parenting styles, and that their style is totally unacceptable with our children. My mother also hit us when we were children, which is a dealbreaker for me. I told my parents that if I ever caught her hit one of my children, she would never see them again.

They try to comply with the verbal discipline (she would not dare to lay a hand on my children), but I have caught them slipping into it every now and then, so I immediately jump in and correct them. Now that our son is 3, my dad keeps asking if we would send him down to them for a week's vacation (they live about 1000 miles away, so they only see each other for about 2 weeks per year). My DH and I are totally against the idea, but I know that they will start pushing more as he gets older. Unfortunately, my parents are less patient with older children than they are with babies, so we think it would just get worse as he gets older.

From what I have read in parenting books, older kids do know the difference between the parenting styles of their parents and grandparents, but I think that my kids would have to be at least teenagers before I would really feel comfortable leaving them along with my parents for any length of time, and maybe even not then.

Like your situation, 95% of the time my parents are model grandparents - very loving and affectionate and my son adores them, but the crappy discipline comes out on issues like potty training and mealtimes (my DS is not a big fan of veggies). So, because DS loves them so much and they have so much fun together, we have decided that supervised visits are the best way to go - everyone has fun, and I'm not worried about what's going on if I'm not there.

 

[Puppmom]

Ouch! I fully expected to read something about how your parents or in-laws let your child do whatever he/she wants so I was caught a little off guard by the actual situation.

I would definitely talk to the grandparent. From the sounds of it, your child is not old enough to know grandparent is in the wrong and could definitely internalize some of those comments.

 

[somethingshiny]

It is harmful even in the smallest amounts. You can tell your child that it''s inappropriate, but by allowing it to continue you''re SHOWING that you''re okay with it too. That is how a child''s mind works.

Nip it in the bud. Tell them in no uncertain terms it''s unacceptable and have an out ready. If they''re not willing to ease up, you need to ease out.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/17/2010 10:37:53 AM
Author: somethingshiny
It is harmful even in the smallest amounts. You can tell your child that it''s inappropriate, but by allowing it to continue you''re SHOWING that you''re okay with it too. That is how a child''s mind works.

Nip it in the bud. Tell them in no uncertain terms it''s unacceptable and have an out ready. If they''re not willing to ease up, you need to ease out.

Ditto!!!

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

I feel for you! I''m in a similar situation to the one Vespergirl describes. I have never left my daughter alone with my parents, visits are always (and always will be) supervised. My parents love A to bits, but I don''t trust them with her, sadly. My mother in particular has a nasty temper and is of the slap first, ask questions later school of parenting.

I have to watch my mother like a hawk, though. She has already made some comments to my daughter (who isn''t quite 2 yet) that I didn''t like. For example, one of her obsessions is body image and while I understand it''s important to her, I personally find it ridiculous and I really don''t want my daughter to pick up on image worries and certainly not before her second birthday. There''s other stuff, that''s just an example.

When she says something to A that I don''t like, I immediately contadict it. Calmly but firmly. I''m the parent, so my words should carry a little more authority (for now, anyway haha). It makes my mother angrier than I can describe, but she''s going to have to live with that, I''m afraid.

It isn''t a good situation, but I''m the only one who can control it, so I''ll take the flak. I hope you manage to find a way of working through this so your child can have a relationship with her grandparent. I do recognise that A loves visiting her grandparents and that my issues with them are my own, so from that perspective, I want her to spend time there, but supervised. It sounds like you may have to do the same.

Good luck

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Vespergirl, I just re-read your post and I have to ask...

Do we have the same parents?!

It sounds so familiar.

 

[junebug17]

Date: 3/17/2010 10:44:54 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/17/2010 10:37:53 AM

Author: somethingshiny

It is harmful even in the smallest amounts. You can tell your child that it''s inappropriate, but by allowing it to continue you''re SHOWING that you''re okay with it too. That is how a child''s mind works.


Nip it in the bud. Tell them in no uncertain terms it''s unacceptable and have an out ready. If they''re not willing to ease up, you need to ease out.

Ditto!!!

thritto, well said somethingshiny.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 3/17/2010 11:54:47 AM
Author: Mrs Mitchell
Vespergirl, I just re-read your post and I have to ask...

Do we have the same parents?!

It sounds so familiar.

Mrs. Mitchell, I just read your post & I thought the same thing! Some of my friends mentioned that it may be the more strict old-school European parenting style (you''re in the UK, correct? My parents are from Croatia, and were born in the 40s) - since I was raised in the US, my friends were horrified when I would talk about the way my mother treated me, but among her peers, it was normal. My dad is a sweetheart and a softie, but he just does whatever my mom tells him, so since he never protected us, I don''t trust him to protect my sons.

 

[clockwork]

Thank you for all of your replies. Truly.

The grandparent in question here is one of my in-laws - so for me, this behavior is really quite shocking.

Puppmom, Somethingshiny, Lorelei, Junebug17:
Because this behavior is so foreign to me, my attitude was initially the same. However, even addressing the issue directly is difficult as the grandparent is extremely insecure about anything that approaches personal criticism and will likely respond in ways that are at best, passive aggressive. This behavior is deeply ingrained in the grandparent. The brutal reality is that this behavior will not change (substantially) in the future. But - 95% of the time there is no problem as our child is, for her age, ridiculously helpful, calm and compliant. The problem lies in the 5% of the time when our child fusses like a typical toddler wherein the grandparent feels the apparently irresistible need to intervene.

The decision to cut the grandparent out of our child''s life would be a huge, ugly step. However as parents, this would be a step we would be willing to take, IF we could find some proof, some kind of study that would show that this sort of behavior, with this level of exposure, is truly detrimental. Hopefully someone with some background in psychology will take an interest in this thread.

Vespergirl and Mrs Mitchell - thank you so much for your replies. "Shame based parenting" sums it all up. We have previously let the grandparents go out to the park with our child alone, but we now think that that will have to change. Our tendency is to proceed as you have, and to watch the grandparent vigilantly. Bloody difficult situation.

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Vesper, it could well be old school European parenting. My mother was parented exactly the same way by her mother (and had major issues with her) and my father's family was similar. My mother regularly mentions how hateful her mother was and how she always feared being like her. Hmm. Guess what?!

My mother has a real temper, and a set of values that I will never understand, far less share. She was raised by an upper class family with Victorian values, although my grandmother was born in 1914, they were a very traditional family.

My father never protected me and as you say, I couldn't trust him to protect my child either.

I've sidestepped the conversation about never hurting my child physically, by being present at all times when they are together. I know it's going to get harder as she gets older (BFing was a wonderful excuse) as they live near us and will want to take Amelia on day trips etc. It can't happen, and I'll have to think carefully about how to present that. All their friends babysit regularly for grandchildren, so there's peer pressure there for meeting up with the kids. Over my dead body, but it will be a horrible battle.

 

[icekid]

Date: 3/17/2010 4:27:54 PM
Author: clockwork

The decision to cut the grandparent out of our child''s life would be a huge, ugly step. However as parents, this would be a step we would be willing to take, IF we could find some proof, some kind of study that would show that this sort of behavior, with this level of exposure, is truly detrimental. Hopefully someone with some background in psychology will take an interest in this thread.

clockwork- If you truly need "proof" that this behavior is harmful to your child, this grandparent is not your only problem. If said grandparent values his/her relationship with YOUR child, they will shape up or get lost!

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Date: 3/17/2010 4:27:54 PM
Author: clockwork
Thank you for all of your replies. Truly.

The grandparent in question here is one of my in-laws - so for me, this behavior is really quite shocking.

Puppmom, Somethingshiny, Lorelei, Junebug17:
Because this behavior is so foreign to me, my attitude was initially the same. However, even addressing the issue directly is difficult as the grandparent is extremely insecure about anything that approaches personal criticism and will likely respond in ways that are at best, passive aggressive. This behavior is deeply ingrained in the grandparent. The brutal reality is that this behavior will not change (substantially) in the future. But - 95% of the time there is no problem as our child is, for her age, ridiculously helpful, calm and compliant. The problem lies in the 5% of the time when our child fusses like a typical toddler wherein the grandparent feels the apparently irresistible need to intervene.

The decision to cut the grandparent out of our child''s life would be a huge, ugly step. However as parents, this would be a step we would be willing to take, IF we could find some proof, some kind of study that would show that this sort of behavior, with this level of exposure, is truly detrimental. Hopefully someone with some background in psychology will take an interest in this thread.

Vespergirl and Mrs Mitchell - thank you so much for your replies. ''Shame based parenting'' sums it all up. We have previously let the grandparents go out to the park with our child alone, but we now think that that will have to change. Our tendency is to proceed as you have, and to watch the grandparent vigilantly. Bloody difficult situation.

Clockwork, it''s a difficult situation, for sure. My parents are the same about any criticism. It''s just not acceptable to them. I don''t want to cut them out of Amelia''s life, for her sake, she seems to love them. Also, when she''s older and wants to rebel, they could become almost irresistable to her if I don''t support contact.

I too would be interested to hear from a psychologist! I have a Bachelors degree and a Masters in psychology, but yet here I am in a similar situation. I specialised in early onset dementia, though. Might explain why I am at a loss to deal with this.

I don''t work in the field anymore, maybe someone with access to up to date journals will chime in.

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Date: 3/17/2010 4:49:38 PM
Author: icekid

Date: 3/17/2010 4:27:54 PM
Author: clockwork

The decision to cut the grandparent out of our child''s life would be a huge, ugly step. However as parents, this would be a step we would be willing to take, IF we could find some proof, some kind of study that would show that this sort of behavior, with this level of exposure, is truly detrimental. Hopefully someone with some background in psychology will take an interest in this thread.

clockwork- If you truly need ''proof'' that this behavior is harmful to your child, this grandparent is not your only problem. If said grandparent values his/her relationship with YOUR child, they will shape up or get lost!

Very good point. If there''s doubt in your mind about their behaviour, actually that is enough.

 

[cara]

Date: 3/17/2010 9:21:10 AM
Author:clockwork
Hi, longtime lurker here.

Problem: Grandparent seems to love grandchild (who is almost two years old). However - grandparent is of the school of belief that a good way to discipline children is to use statements such as:

a) 'Sometimes you're really stupid' (said seriously, and directed at child who was fussing about having nose wiped).

b) 'Look! Now I'm acting like Grandchild!' (grandparent starts pretending to cry and says 'No!No!No' while grandchild is seated across from grandparent). In this case, I think the grandparent was attempting to mock the grandchild's behavior.

c) 'You make me really, really sad when you don't do X' (X is again usually something de minimis, e.g., nose wiping, or not changing into outerwear quickly enough). This is usually performed with a loud voice and some amount of histrionics.

Grandparent is extremely unlikely to change behavior as this behavior is typical of the grandparent's general M.O. We have gently asked the grandparent to stop 'parenting' but that hasn't stopped the behavior. We correct and redirect the grandparent immediately when these sorts of situations arise (and we acknowledge to our child that this behavior is wrong) but that doesn't stop the grandparent's repeated attempts at disciplining.

Therefore:

Given that the grandparent sees the grandchild say, 6 or 7 times a year (for about week long stretches) - and given that we DO let the child know that we find this particular form of behavior unacceptable - how harmful is it for the grandchild to have exposure to the grandparent?

We do intend to follow cues as best we can from our child -- who, by the end of the visit, was apprehensive about being left alone with grandparent. But our child also expressed that she missed the grandparent after the grandparent left. And there are times when the grandparent CAN be loving and charming and playful - so long as the grandchild is meeting the grandparent's expectations.

Thanks in advance for any insight into this situation.

I think you have your 'proof'. Even though your kid also missed the grandparent, kids are programmed to love their caregivers, even abusive and harmful ones.

But I disagree that you should follow your child's clues on this - your child will follow YOUR clues. Is she supposed to think that she should accept insults and mockery from Grandma? I think you have a duty to immediately address any such comments made at your daughter's expense - to refute, dismiss, minimize or outright correct them. Who cares if grandma is passive-aggressive in response - the boundary setting is important. And if the comments don't stop then you do have an obligation to protect your child from them - maybe not by totally cutting out the grandparent's at first, but you can cut down on their time and more closely supervise their visits. Its not an all or nothing situation. And what does your husband say about this behavior?

While its not the same situation (MIL makes inappropriate body-image comments to little granddaughter), this column seems relevant. Carolyn Hax isn't a psychologist, but she's a pretty good advice columnist and has read a lot of letters about a lot of whacky family dynamics over the years.

 

[clockwork]

Date: 3/17/2010 4:53:12 PM
Author: Mrs Mitchell

Date: 3/17/2010 4:49:38 PM

Author: icekid

Date: 3/17/2010 4:27:54 PM

Author: clockwork


The decision to cut the grandparent out of our child''s life would be a huge, ugly step. However as parents, this would be a step we would be willing to take, IF we could find some proof, some kind of study that would show that this sort of behavior, with this level of exposure, is truly detrimental. Hopefully someone with some background in psychology will take an interest in this thread.

clockwork- If you truly need ''proof'' that this behavior is harmful to your child, this grandparent is not your only problem. If said grandparent values his/her relationship with YOUR child, they will shape up or get lost!

Very good point. If there''s doubt in your mind about their behaviour, actually that is enough.

Perhaps I am expressing myself inadequately - or perhaps I do need help!
However, I don''t think that it is necessarily in my child''s best interest to cut a grandparent out of my child''s life b/c my knee jerk response is disgust as my child does apparently care about the grandparent.

If 95% of the interaction is positive, how fundamentally detrimental is the remaining 5%? For me - the problem is that I am entirely unsure. It''s possible that our child could think that the grandparent is occasionally weird and unpleasant. Is it also likely that a child would find these comments from a grandparent that she sees occasionally as fundamentally tainting her sense of self? That''s where I would like some "proof"- b/c for me, it''s hard to know whether psychologically this is more within the realm of out and out emotional abuse or something more like being occasionally teased by another blundering child.

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Cara, I clicked on your link and wow. Just wow.

You know I mentioned in my earlier post about my mother''s body image comments? Well, that is EXACTLY what she said to my nearly 2 year old at lunch last week.

She got told off very firmly for it, which caused a huge scene and a lot of bad feeling. My mother thinks body image is important, I do not. She therefore discounts any view I have on the subject, because I don''t understand (incomprehenible, since she''s told me about it often enough...). I have no hang ups, I love my lumpy, chunky body and that drives my mother nuts. Losing weight is her purpose in life, it''s just something I do occasionally to stop me needing a bigger car.

Maybe if I survived her parenting while still liking myself, it''s less of a big deal than I think. Thing is though, my best friend and I grew up next door to each other and she did internalise my mother''s body fascism. She has a lot of hang-ups, courtesy of my mother. I would hate Amelia to grow up believing that nonsense.

 

[clockwork]

Cara- Thank you for your response. Just to reiterate - I agree that we have a duty to address these comments, and we have been doing so, immediately, every time it occurs. We also immediately address our child and tell her that the behavior was unacceptable. And additionally, I do agree that we have to supervise visits even more vigilantly. And you''re absolutely right - following our child''s cues re. desire to interact with the grandparent should be more relevant when she becomes substantially older.

However-for us part of the problem is that it''s hard to know if our child would really think of the grandparent really as a caregiver or an old, odd giant-toddler that needs to be corrected and redirected. This is where some studies re. the perceived role (and importance) of grandparents by grandchildren would be helpful.

My husband is in accord in thinking that this behavior is inappropriate. We''re just at a loss at judging just how bad this bad situation is.

And thank you for the link - we''ll definitely take a look.

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

I don''t know of any studies that would help, but as I say, I''m out of touch with the relevant professional journals.

I think the bottom line is that if you think it''s harmful, then it probably is. Go with your instinct, you are the parent. That''s as much as I do. If when you hear / see these things happen and your instinct is "that''s wrong" then I''d say it''s wrong. Whether it will do long term harm, I don''t know. I took my Victorian grandmother and her rigid views, discipline and expectations less seriously as I got older. I remember thinking she was silly and wrong about certain things from about age 6. I don''t remember much before that.

 

[Pandora II]

I had parents and grandparents like this.

With my parents I cured them by a) Running away at 19 and taking back control of my life and b) being determined that they wouldn''t damage my younger sister in the same way (she''s nearly 14 years younger).

It took time, but there has been a dramatic change and they are more self-aware.

As far as Daisy is concerned, I lent my mother a copy of Dr Sear''s ''The Good Behaviour Book'' and let her know that this was how we planned to parent and discipline.

 

[clockwork]

Cara - thanks again for the link.

We have read it and it's reassuring to see that by going with our gut we've been proceeding with Hax's recommended plan of attack. We are at the point where all visits need to be closely supervised.

I would *love* to get at the heart of the issue with the grandmother -which I suspect lies in the grandmother's deep seeded personal insecurities which leads her to need to validate her own parenting choices by parenting our child in her shame-based way. In any case, any meta-discussion of MIL's behavior to MIL would cause the situation to explode b/c, as I've mentioned earlier, she does not deal well with personal criticism. And so we will continue to focus on talking about the inappropriate behavior and remove privileges when she cannot comply.

Vesper, Mrs Mitchell and Pandora: want to be vague as I don't want to say too much about my location, but MIL was raised in Europe. I wonder if parenting in this way was simply the norm during that time period. Ironically, my husband remembers his parents telling him how wonderful and progressive they were as parents - likely b/c they (usually) didn't hit and "explained" things before shaming + blaming.

SIL did something similar Pandora, and cut off contact for several years- however in our case, after the reconciliation the behavior slid quickly back into the same old patterns. I honestly don't think that at this stage in the game MIL will become radically more self aware- but she will have to change her behavior.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

I am so sorry that you all are dealing with this!

I will say as a child whose parents had major issues with one set of grandparents (views of discipline, religion, relationships, and body image--that was a big one) the stress from my parents being upset and me feeling caught in the middle between my grandparents whom I loved and my parents whom I loved, and being used as a pawn in their negotiations, was IMO much worse for me than any "damage" that would have been caused by the few weeks per year I saw my grandparents (in supervised visits with my parents).

I would very much have liked to spend some time alone with just my grandparents, esp. once I was in elementary school and high school, and I could differentiate between what my parents condoned and what my grandparents would do. I wasn't in physical danger from my grandparents (though my first memory of them is their chasing me through the house to spank me

and my grandmother can do a number on anyone's body image in 2 seconds flat

) obviously it's different if your child is very little and/or you believe they'd be in physical danger.

So, I don't have answers, but I can say that once I was in late elem/high school I would have cherished some alone time with my grandparents and been able to recognize destructive comments/behaviors as not being the right ones. but I still loved them and wanted to spend time with them, even if it was just a weekend trip once every few years that was proceeded by strict rules on all sides by my parents.

 

[PumpkinPie]

Date: 3/17/2010 10:37:53 AM
Author: somethingshiny
It is harmful even in the smallest amounts. You can tell your child that it''s inappropriate, but by allowing it to continue you''re SHOWING that you''re okay with it too. That is how a child''s mind works.


Nip it in the bud. Tell them in no uncertain terms it''s unacceptable and have an out ready. If they''re not willing to ease up, you need to ease out.

I agree 100% with this

 

[hlmr]

What you are describing could fit the bill for many grandparents and although it is not the best type of relationship to have, for six or seven visits a year, I think the pros will outweigh the cons.

I am not condoning the behaviour you are describing, but the people in any childs life will have both positive and negative impact, and that includes peers, parents and grandparents.

My advice is to monitor more closely while your child is young, and as he or she gets older they will learn how to adapt to this type of interaction. Kids are resilient and smart. If the grandparent is loving, charming and playful most of the time, the negative aspects can be managed during short visits, and the child will be learning the skills to deal with different personality types in their family, as they will in life.

 

[luvmyhalo]

Yes, kids are smart and resilient. BUT they also remember a LOT. Especially hurtful words from someone they admire and adore.

In a child''s eyes, a lot of times Grandparents are thought of as wise, fun, loving, and sometimes even magical. They read endless books, bring presents, let kids have cookies for breakfast, etc, etc...

But if a child hears words like "Stupid" or is being mocked, a child will remember that. It''s extremely hurtful coming from someone they admire.

I think this is a zero tolerance issue. Nip it in the bud before it damages a child''s self esteem. They''ll get enough of that from kids at school, they certainly don''t need it from grandparents.

 

[hlmr]

Yes, they do remember, and kids usually are hurt by people they love the most. Unfortunately, we hurt our children just from being ourselves sometimes, without even realizing it.

I am simply saying that no one is perfect, and if the good is outweighing the bad, don''t deprive a child of a less than ideal relationship with a grandparent. Monitor it closely, but don''t take it away unless it is more toxic than loving.

 

[cara]

Well, you have to be prepared to enforce the rules/boundaries if you are going to set them. 'Monitor' but without consequence doesn't work for toddlers, doesn't work for toxic relatives. Also I worry about the guideline of 'as long as their is more good than harm'. Someone can be great 95% of the time and toxic only 5%, but depending on how bad the toxicity level is, it can still be a harmful relationship overall. I think you have to be kind of careful, *especially* if you are a peacemaker kind of person and would be inclined to allow things to go uncorrected or unchallenged to keep the peace, having decided that is the price to pay for the 95% good part of the person. It gives the message that the 5% toxic behavior is OK or fine or acceptable or whatever - but not that it is WAY WAY out of line.

Clockwork, I think you're on the right track. You are unlikely to change the way grandma thinks or her opinions on things, but you can expect her regulate her behavior. Or you limit her time with grandchild until its a small small influence.

On the body image comments and surviving them from relatives, I think its a bit like someone saying: 'Well, my parents beat me with a coathanger regularly growing up, and I came out OK so it must not be that big a deal.' Sure, one kid or even many, many kids might survive such an environment and come out relatively unscathed but that doesn't mean that its a good thing or that some children woln't be really, really harmed by similar treatment. Obviously I think the degree of closeness and proximity between the kid and the person making the comments matter, as dos the toxicity level of the comments. If grandma is widely acknowledged as loony body-obsessed nagger and everyone in the family opens dismisses and scoffs at her comments, then maybe only the most vulnerable grandchild with her own tendencies toward body-image issues will be susceptible to or harmed by grandma's comments. Still not that great a situation, but at least better than everybody tolerating/accepting the comments as part of life.

 

[hlmr]

I guess I would have had the same black/white opinion about this topic 20 years ago, but after living some more life I have realized that you can''t create a perfect world with perfect people in it for your child.

Bella mezzo''s story is a good example of what I am trying to get at. Excluding a less than perfect grandparent is not the answer for everyone.

Clockwork, good luck with your decision.

 

[cara]

Hlmr, I reread my last response and guess it came out a little more black/white than I intended. I'm not approaching this from the perspective of creating a perfect world for my child, I'm approaching this more from the perspective of setting boundaries with people you love to minimize the harm from their sometimes toxic behavior. I certainly wish I'd done a better job of boundary-setting myself in at least one my close family relationships, as by the time I got to more effective methods the toxic aspects of this person's behavior had been going on so long with my futile requests to stop that the bad had kind of obliterated my ability to appreciate all the person's better qualities and I didn't really feel that we had much of a relationship to save. But it really took cutting off communication for awhile to get this person's attention and make them at least be willing to address changing their behavior somewhat. (Not their views, mind you, just their behavior.) And it turns out by then, it was much easier on me to stop communicating for awhile because I wasn't always on edge wondering when the next toxic outburst was coming. Yes this was a loving relationship and the majority of this person's behavior was fine, but the toxic behavior was sufficiently toxic that it needed to be eliminated or extremely reduced for a healthy relationship.

With kids obviously its harder as you have to think ahead about what might be likely to harm them or what you are comfortable subjecting your child to and decide if you are coddling them by protecting them from kooky grandma or actually sparing them harm/doing a good thing. Obviously if it is only minorly bad behavior it might be better dealt with by laughing it off or ignoring it.

But you do have to be prepared to set consequences for crossing boundaries if you have decided that the behavior is bad enough to warrant the boundary setting. Totally cutting off the toxic relatives is not a good first step unless its extreme behavior or they are distant from you anyway, but leaving immediately, reducing contact, having their closest adult relative speak to them and warn them about their *behavior* are all appropriate first steps. Talking to a therapist/other professional is not a bad idea if you want ideas on how to approach the boundary seeing or whether the behavior is sufficiently harmful to warrant intervention.

 

[packrat]

I was raised to let the 5% bad stuff go..and I had some toxic friendships as I grew up b/c I was taught to let things go. Toxic boyfriends. Not fun. I remember the 5% bad times..not much of the 95% good times. Granted, I''m not talking about family members here, but if your child had a "friend" in school who made fun of them, taunted them etc..you''d say "Well, they''re not a very good friend now are they?", and maybe encourage the child to find a new set of friends. I don''t see why it''s any different w/family, personally. Family doesn''t get a free pass to treat other family meanly just b/c they''ll put up w/it. Would you (not specifically *you*, just you as in whomever is reading this) let your friends talk that way to your child if they didn''t see them often? Adults don''t need to bully kids.

I remember a commercial on tv when I was in junior high/high school. An empty clear glass, and words flash on the screen "this is what a child hears", then someone says "you did such a good job on your report today" and a bit of milk is poured in. It continues on w/more compliments and encouragement and each time a little more milk is poured in until it''s full. Then, someone yells "How could you be so STUPID? Don''t you know any better?" and words flash on the screen "This is what a child feels", and a hammer comes and smashes the glass into tiny pieces and milk splashes everywhere. It took 10 praises to fill that glass and 1 to break it. I''ll never forget that commercial.

I realize it''s not a big sunshiney rainbow world and fairy dust doesn''t come out of everybody''s mouths every time they speak. But, kids aren''t perfect either, and adults shouldn''t feel the need to point that out to a child over and over-whether they see them 5 times or 500 times a year.

This is all just my opinion obviously. I refused my MIL access to my kids until she could act properly..so she didn''t see them for a LOOONG time, and when she did it was in a group setting at our house. The kids don''t remember the stuff that happened back in the day b/c I put the kibosh on it early on. (Our eldest wasn''t even a year, and our youngest wasn''t even born) Took her 5 years to figure it out, but now they just know a little ole lady who smiles and is nice to them, the times they see her. My kids, my rules.