Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation!

[webdiva]

I've been stalking ya'll for a while. Thank you all for your contribution to PS, it's been very helpful. And now it's my turn to get a diamond! I need your advice on a purchase, and if I'm being too picky.

Been married a couple of years but we put off the ring until we paid for the wedding and fixed up the house. So no hurry on the ring, but that's easier said than done. I love, love, love sparkly diamonds and have been researching for a while now. I did all the research, the field trips to jewelers, both good and bad. Looked at color, cut, clarity, etc. Turns out I'm super color sensitive and open to a lower eye clean clarity. We live in LA, so we have access to quite a few wholesale diamonds - and one jeweler pulled in about 15 radiants for me. I was actually partial to the crushed ice ones at the time (last year), but in retrospect I think crushed ice looks better in bigger stones like the Harry Winston ones and the radiants I saw probably weren't the best cut even though they had great stats.

We're on a budget - $5000 incl. setting. I was initially going to go with a cushion halo pave setting, but in the intervening years wanted something slightly more unique since so many now have it. Visited 23rd street jewelers, Single Stone, SN Queens, pretty much any place that does custom work in LA. I'll definitely add reviews on all those in a separate thread!

So my first actual purchase was a James Allen cushion of .73 ct E I1 - with crushed ice hiding the inclusions. Super icy white, and gorgeous in some lighting (bright sunlight gives off crazy fire and pin points of scintillation!). Nice size, helped by the dreadful 59% depth. After a few weeks of gazing at it adoringly in the ring holder in all lights, I really wanted something that had more scintillation in all lighting conditions. It's probably going back on Monday. It was only $1500 after the PS discount and is actually really gorgeous for someone that wants a big, icy white spread in the midst of a bunch of pave (my original plan).

Second purchase, Princess of Hearts .88 ct E I1 from GOG. Great deal from the spring sale - I caught the sale about 8 minutes after it was announced last Friday! Score! OMG - Princess of hearts! So excited! Until I opened the box this morning outside Fedex. Oh. Um, why's it so dark? It's a gorgeous diamond, beautifully cut and polished. Drove to work and looked at it many different lights, including the usually awesome elevator. It has a ton of fire in some lighting, but I'm not seeing any scintillation. Coworker with an RB followed me around to compare scintillation/fire. They were very comparable, both went dead in the bathroom lights, lit up in spo

It also goes dark in some lighting, as described in some threads of well cut diamonds. I believe what I'm seeing is the blue in the ASET - the reflection of my black top, the black interior of the car, etc. I was a little worried about all the blue in the ASET at first, but all of the Princess of Hearts show that and the video looked great... It seemed brightest when I stepped into the tub (Silly Pricescoper that I am!), because it reflected the white from the tiles and ceiling. Put it facedown on a white business card with the JA E, and an uncertified Princess that I have that is estimated to be an I/J range. It definitely appears darker than the JA E, however I did notice that the crushed ice radiants appeared super white in comparison with the same color faceted cut radiants in my previous legwork (all GIA certified, btw).

Here's the stats on the diamond on the GOG site:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3443/
http://youtu.be/O74CmwVZfiA
(off topic - their customer service has been fantastic, and I was so thrilled to get my very own GOG video to compare the 3 stones I was choosing from!)

So the question is - am I being too picky and is that what a Princess of Hearts or even a RB look like in real life lighting? Or did I miss something on the ASET/Idealscope images?

 

[webdiva]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Forgot to add - this is the setting I like. Love the art deco styling. Beverley K quality is beautiful, too. Tried on some vintage ones and some modern replicas. Love the finger coverage:
http://www.beverleyk.com/semi-mounts/8wr397-a-d-d-m.html

Leaves me about $3500 for a stone at the top end - but I'd love to not go over $3000 so I can get a small eternity from IDJ.

 

[bunnycat]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Hi Webdiva-

My buget was very similar to what yours is. Here's some pictures in vaious lighting conditions of stones we looked at. One thing we did (which was smart, but a little nerve wracking) was have multiple stones in to look at so I could compare things side by side so I wouldn't have to use pictures and memory to compare. If your budget will allow getting more than one stone to look at and sending one back, you might consider it. By chance could you post the ASET image, or a link to the stone? I'd love to see what those look like. A H/A square is a really interesting concept!

I'm not exactly sure what type of lighting you were under when you say the diamonds you were comparing were "dead" (including your friends diamond). Diamonds aren't always going to be displaying the same fire/scintillation under every lighting situation, but I'm sure you know that. Some situations are just going to give white light return. I wish I knew what you were seeing, though. Maybe someone more experienced can tell you more about what they think it is you are seeing.

I was looking at RB and AVR's and I did take LOTS of pictures, so I will post some here and see if any of them seem like what you've been seeing in various condition:

These were the final contenders- a J AVR from GOG (and they are completely awesome to work with!) and an AGS0 H MRB:

Outdoors late afternoon with sun going down:



The J AVR, J MRB and H MRB indoors near a window (which unfortunately has beige curtains and I think that was affecting the camera images):



Under incandescent indoor lighting (but the light cover is antique beige, not white):


mixed task (spot) light and incandescent:

 

[webdiva]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Thanks! When the stones went "dead" - it did with the middle stone in your last picture is doing. No scintillation or fire. However, it was indirect florescent lighting in the bathroom (I chuckle because I read about the gentleman that opened his well cut diamond for the first time in the office bathroom and thought it was a dud. Totally true!). Both stones showed fire under the spot lighting right outside the bathroom.

The ASET and other pics for the .88 POH are in that link to GOG. I couldn't direct link since they have a logo on them. FYI - it was $2670, which was a great deal for a premium cut. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3443/

The main issue is comparing with the other stones, the .88 seems to reflect it's environment more - and I wear a lot of black... It so well cut and looks beautiful this morning in our overcast light outside but I do see a lot of black contrast.

 

[bunnycat]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Well- too be honest- that middle stone in the last photo (the J MRB) was also sparkly and not a bad stone, but it took some wangling to get 2 fire simultaneous fire shots (the J AVR and H MRB) as it was...three was surely beyond my grasp. It's just the angle it was at that means you didn't see any sparkle. That being said, I didn't feel like it was quite as sparky as the other 2 overall. My reasoning on that was that I kept seeing some lack of fire in some situations where I would expect to see it (like spot lighting, or sunshine)...or rather lack of light movement through the center but mostly around the edges. That's why we kept looking.

So, I went and took a picture of my ring in fluorescent lighting with some natural light from the garage window helping out a little. (The AGSO H is the one that I ended up going with. I'll do a thread soon, when its mini vintage alter ego comes back next week.)

It definitely behaves differently in fluorescent, but I don't dislike it. I'm almost never in fluorescent lighting (we nuked all of them from the house. The only one left is in the garage.) I just don't know that you will get fire sparkle in that lighting situation. Someone more experienced than I am will hopefully be able to chime in.

Can you photograph yours in fluor and post it?

Love the images of it BTW! That blue you see is contrast in the faceting, and if you've read through GOG's info on ASET images, you know a certain amount needs to be present, just like a little green needs to be present. But that's on MRB. I don't know how it applies to a more specialized cut like the H/A square. I'm just assuming something similar.

 

[webdiva]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Your diamond and ring are gorgeous! Congrats!

Here are two pics.

Pic 1 - it's a bit blurry, sorry - phone pic - but you can see the darkness I'm worried about. It's shown this darkness in more lighting situations than I expected. This is with the windows closed at work, under fluor lighting. It looks less bright than this in my car.


Pic 2 - This is with my back to the window at work, reflecting daylight. As long as I'm directly in a source of light, the diamond does reflect it beautifully. Turn a little away and it reflects the wall color, or my top, etc.


Is this how it's supposed to behave as a POH? I don't want to have to keep pointing my ring towards the light to enjoy it, my arm hurts.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

You will experience different looks in different lighting. My stones look best in my kitchen lighting or in the big stores that have halogen lighting. There is fluorescent lighting in my walk-in closet and all you see in that lighting is bright white. You do not see sparkle in that lighting. So what you are seeing is normal. All diamonds will be different in different lighting. So what I think you are seeing is normal for a well cut stone.

I love Beverley K settings! I think an AVR would be so beautiful in that setting, too! If you used a POH, would they alter the shape of that halo to match the POH shape? Because that setting is designed for a round.

 

[webdiva]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Thanks, Diamondseeker!

Yes, they will alter it for a little less than $200 over the regular GOG price for a POH. I tried on a similar ring with an emerald at SN Queens so I have an idea of what it would look like. I also tried on the round version of that Beverley K ring and it was gorgeous. Actually, the store had pink gold plated it for a customer and it was soooo beautiful!

I guess that's my question - I'm not seeing a bright white with no sparkles in some lighting (though I do see that with daylight). I'm seeing it reflect dark like that first picture.

 

[InnaR]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

In Russia (where I'm coming from) the diamond still considered to be an "evening" stone. Women in Russia wear their diamonds to an evening outings and occasions. This tradition is still very strong, to the point that wearing a diamond in the middle of the day considered being somewhat bad taste. One of the explanations to such tradition is that diamonds rarely look very good in the day light and sparkle the best in the places like restaurants.

An update: forgot to mention that I don't agree with that tradition

 

[bunnycat]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Mine does do some stuff like that in certain light situations and depending on the angle...and boy, am I doing a lot of viewing right now! My instinct says what you mainly need to be watching is the way light is traveling through/around the stone, regardless of whether you are seeing color play or not. I suspect there's going to be contrast area regardless of your light situation. What I'd worry about is dullness. Even when I am in lighting that doesn't make for fire, my stone is still very active in most lighting, and that is what I was looking for in as stone. I don't think with a stone from GOG you're ever going to have to worry about a dull stone but you may find you have to decide what you are looking for in a particular stone cut.

As DS posted, mine also tends to have it's best look in kitchen lighting (that was a surprise to me!) so you might try some different lights at home. If your phone has the capability, try doing a couple of videos for yourself that you can watch to get a feel for what you see. I did several walking from room to room. The trouble I find with spot lighting (like at jewelry stores) is yes, stones are sparkly there, but how often IRL are you going to be under jewelry store spots or spot lights in general?

Thank you for the congrats! He's such a sweetie, when we were voting on the final stone, he voted for the AVR and I voted for the MRB, and he said I won, 1 vote to 1. Awww...

 

[webdiva]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Thanks, guys! Taking it back to work today to see how it does again. I've seen hundreds of stones - literally - but all in either daylight or jewelry store lighting, none in office lighting. The main diamond district building has huge windows so it was nice to bring them to the window away from the yummy jewelry store lights - which, yes, I wish I could carry around with me 24/7!

InnaR, that's so funny - I had never heard that! Speaking of which, I hear vintage Russian diamonds are GORGEOUS if you can find them!

Question - so in florescent office lighting, would I see any kind of sparkle or shimmer if turn the stone side to side?

 

[bunnycat]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Ok, I went out in the garage again, to try and recreate what you are seeing.

Here's my hypothesis:

When I was directly under the fluorescent light, I got reflection off the arrows- bright white. If I moved away from the light source and tried to bring the diamond in too close (closer than a foot) then I think obscuration kicks in. There wasn't enough ambient light, and my head is obscuring anything coming in from above, so all I really see is patterning, some white sparkle as I tilt it around. Perhaps this is the kind of thing you are seeing? So its possible if you are in ambient fluor lighting instead of with some light source directly behind you be it a window or an overhead light, and blocking ambient light from the topside of the diamond with your head trying to view it, then I'm guessing what you see is probably correct, but please someone correct me if I am wrong.

I'll have to go read about obscuration some more now.

 

[webdiva]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Thanks for checking that out, Bastetcat! (Basted Cat? My dogs are interested...

I have it on with my CZ ring to compare and it seems to be consistent with that ring in lighting. Both are beautifully cut. So far so good - I think I just had crazy expectations of a Princess of Hearts shooting out sparklies everywhere, blinding people all the time!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Take it somewhere like Walmart or Home Depot that might have the overhead halogen lighting. I feel funny looking at my ring in Walmart, but I try to do it discreetly! Where I worked had all fluorescent lighting and it never sparkled there and it was an ideal cut diamond. So it really does depend on the light source. I am going to stock up on regular light bulbs (for a few lamps) because I do not think the CFL bulbs do a thing for diamonds!

 

[webdiva]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Thanks, Diamondseeker! That is VERY reassuring!!! And all the MORE reason to spend more time at Target...

What would my boss say if I changed out all the lighting to halogen?

 

[bunnycat]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Yeah- I think some lighting just isn't kind to stone viewing in general...I've also heard Starbucks is a nice place to view your stones.

I snuck in to Tiffany's (looking at some earrings, of course) and mine was just as hyper-sparkly in their lighting as their own stones.

Bastet= Ancient Egyptian Cat Goddess

 

[SweetAsscher]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Thanks for checking that out, Bastetcat! (Basted Cat? My dogs are interested...

I have it on with my CZ ring to compare and it seems to be consistent with that ring in lighting. Both are beautifully cut. So far so good - I think I just had crazy expectations of a Princess of Hearts shooting out sparklies everywhere, blinding people all the time!

I know exactly what you mean!! I felt like that too with my Solasfera, but then I realized that I'm staring at it so close all the time that my big head blocks all the light! Try having a friend wear it for you to see how it looks to other people. I've found my stone looks best to me at about arms length where it has a chance to reflect the light vs me smothering it.
Best lighting in the whole world for amazing diamond flashes is at a sports stadium!

 

[webdiva]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Ha! That's awesome - thank you so much SweetAsscher and Bastetcat (dogs are disappointed there will be basted cats, btw).

SA - I love asschers too, and they were on my list. Then a coworker got engaged with an EC and spent most of her days cleaning it and I got scared off. Asschers are sooo pretty and would probably be more art deco-ish with my setting!

 

[SweetAsscher]

Ha! That's awesome - thank you so much SweetAsscher and Bastetcat (dogs are disappointed there will be basted cats, btw).

SA - I love asschers too, and they were on my list. Then a coworker got engaged with an EC and spent most of her days cleaning it and I got scared off. Asschers are sooo pretty and would probably be more art deco-ish with my setting!

yep, I have a three stone asscher ring that I honestly never wear bcuz it really only looks good when it's clean. For daily wear it's my solasfera round solitaire.
I still love my asschers though. A beautiful asscher makes my heart flutter like no other.
As much as I like my round it's more of an objective like. I see that it performs amazingly. I see that it looks big. I like the bling factor. I like it, I do love it.
But I swoon over asschers!

 

[catia]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Not sure if my direct experience can be of any help or not, as it is with cushion cuts in the 1+ct range, 2 cushion brilliants, & 2 modified cushions.
So far I have viewed 4 differernt stones in my home & day to day environment & flourescent office lighting & compact flouroscent lighting & was totally OCD about checking out different lighting, even down to candlelight.

My opinion is to keep looking.
If you're finding that you always have to be in a particular lighting to be satisfied with the rock you have, it's NOT for you.
You'll find yourself making excuses like "oh, it's just bad lighting here", & well, you should be happier than not in most lighting IMHO.

Here is what I found so far & I don't have pics, so may not be any help.

The 1st mod bril cushion i looked at had a beautiful shape & went super dark in sunlight & spotlighting, but had a LOT of fire in direct sun & spotlighting. It was a totally square 1:1 ratio. J IF stone & just wasn't very bright. Since it was the 1st diamond I was ever able to carry around & look at, I paid super close attention. The cut was beautiful, but I just did not like at all how it went so dark--just because something is a great cut doesn't mean it's pleasing to your individual taste.

2nd was cushion brill and rectangular--it was sparkly in all light but I did not like the shape.
It appeared NO light made it go dead or dark. It wasn't even an ideal or excellent cut.
I had this for a week while I had the 1st one, so I got to compare both--this is what made me realize not all stones go dark--& while I did not like the rectangular shape (i think it was ratio 1:12) i did like the brightness.

3rd stone was from JA I will try to see if I can pull the old pic, because someone snatched it already.
It was a 1.2 J VSI cushion brilliant w/ culet. I almost kept this stone, Ibecause I was tired of looking & it was "sparkly enough" in all lighting.
The stone had great sparkle but had a dead spot that was some type of reflection with slight tilt & in lower or indirect light, it looked like a dead black circle just off center--you never saw it in bright light, spotlight or flouro. It threw great fire in direct sun-rainbows. I decided I better compare it to another before making my decision. It was because of that spot, you only really noticed it within 0-18 inches, so it was some type of reflection, a function of the cut maybe...--enter the 4th stone which I was able to view along with this one.

4th stone was from JA & was this stone:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1459967.asp
This stone GAVE ME THE HOPE I NEEDED for my search for *my* perfect stone to keep going!!!!
Only problem was it just wasn't "antiquey" enough, but darn--it was so hard to give it up!!! I almost did not send it back. Only reason I did was because I want to look at OEC's now.

There was not 1 lighting environment where it did not look great!!! It never went dark in ANY lighting environment.
In crappy office lighting it just looked bright & still even had some pastels.
In compact flouro bulb of my home all it did was sparkle insanely, in sunlight it threw prismatic rainbows on the walls that the cats liked to chase LOL. It displayed pastels & white when it was being "mellow" & not as active, it threw rainbows of color when in spots or sunlight. It had awesome symmetry.

So my point is, you can find a stone that pleases you in most lighting. One that you don't have to say "oh it's just the bad lighting"
It will probably be a matter of cut in my opinion. You need to figure out which cut & shape you get the most enjoyment out of for *your* particular eyes.
Best thing to do is to find out which cut & shape is most pleasing to your eye.
Just because something says "ideal" doesn't mean it will be pleasing to YOU.

The other thing I found was that CFL bulbs (compact flouros that replace the basic old lightbulbs)made every diamond I viewed look AMAZING & made them all super firey performers, whether they went dark or not. I find it strange that some here have stated that CFLs made their stones not look good. Crappy office flouros (the long tubular ones like shop lights) didn't have that effect, that's when the stones were least active.

 

[Lula]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

I agree 100% with catia. It doesn't matter how great the cut is; if it looks dark to you, then that's all that matters. It won't magically change into a lighter, brighter stone. I've seen many ideal-cut stones in person, and some just look more lively than others.

 

[webdiva]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Update! I took Sparkles (the diamond, yes I named it) and my well cut CZ on a field trip today! It really is beautiful, sounds like I had it in the diffuse fluorescent light situation at work where it doesn't show the diamond at it's best (CZ performed the same, too).

Looked at it outside, in a parking garage, in the hallway at the mall, in Old Navy, etc. It really is a gorgeous diamond and I'm very happy with it now that I know what it's supposed to look like in different lighting. I also went to a local B&M with big windows (natural light) to see an ideal MRB and H&A RB to compare (and a big OEC, yummy!). Sparkles the diamond is super, icy white and has crazy fire. I think we'll live happily ever after (until a 5 year ann. upgrade? ) Next steps, getting it set into that Bev. K! I can't wait to get it back!
Once I get the Bev K back, I'll be looking at eternity bands that would go with it and may start a thread on that!

Thank you to everyone for your help on this thread, and also the many threads that led us to this diamond! You all have been so helpful!

 

[webdiva]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

So funny, I found a thread from 2008 about a previous owner of my diamond! And she loved it!
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/newbie-in-tears.81902/page-2']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/newbie-in-tears.81902/page-2[/URL]

Some else remarked in another thread about a stone with an old cert that it was probably upgraded and hadn't sat in the store that whole time, and it totally makes sense that stores with upgrade policies. Thank goodness diamonds are so durable! It looks brand new! I wonder what other stories this diamond has to tell me and how many other owners it had!

 

[webdiva]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Updating this thread with pics - the ring is here! I was all wrong about the diamond - it was the stupid ring holder that masked it true beauty!

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/its-here-art-deco-bev-k-ring-princess-of-hearts-from-gog.175328/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/its-here-art-deco-bev-k-ring-princess-of-hearts-from-gog.175328/[/URL]

 

[mandasand]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

I think maybe I am blind because I think it's totally beautiful and part of me was hoping you would send it back so I could buy it, I know, I'm totally selfish!

I cannot WAIT to see it with the beautiful and unique setting you picked. It is going to be amazing!!

 

[webdiva]

Re: Got my diamond today! Have questions about scintillation

Thanks! I'm definitely keeping it and the pictures are posted here: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/its-here-art-deco-bev-k-ring-princess-of-hearts-from-gog.175328/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/its-here-art-deco-bev-k-ring-princess-of-hearts-from-gog.175328/[/URL]

Here's a sneak peak!