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tboom1446

Rough_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
52
Just got a quote on an engagement ring and was thinking about making the purchase. Would like educated feedback before moving forward.

Diamond with setting & appraisal included out the door cost $9300

They appraise for 2.5 x the value of the purchase. $9,300 x 2.520180420_143610.jpg

Picture attached, GIA information below

GIA report :
ROUND BRILLIANT
Measurements
7.35 - 7.40 x 4.52 mm
Carat Weight
1.51 carat
Color Grade
I
Clarity Grade
SI2
Cut Grade
Very Good
PROPORTIONS
Depth
61.3 %
Table
60 %
Crown Angle
36.0°
Crown Height
14.5%
Pavilion Angle
41.2°
Pavilion Depth
44.0%
Star Length
60%
Lower Half
80%
Girdle
Thin to Medium, Faceted, 3.0%
Culet
None

FINISH
Polish
Excellent
Symmetry
Very Good
FLUORESCENCE
Fluorescence
None
CLARITY CHARACTERISTICS
Clarity Characteristics
Crystal, Cloud, Needle
COMMENTS
Additional clouds are not shown. Pinpoints are not shown.
 
HI @tboom1446. Welcome to PS. The good news is we love to help find diamonds and you found us. The bad news is that the diamond you were shown is not a good value at all. Its a classic "steep deep" where it has been cut to retain weight. They will be lovely under store lights, but terrible in the rest of your life. Please, give this diamond a pass. Its a terrible value as it will be dark and lack sparkle. Also, there are clouds as clarity setting grade and "additional clouds". On a SI2, this is highly likely to lead to a very hazy diamond.

Here is how it performs on one of the tool you can use. Its a 6, we suggest eliminating from consideration anything that scores 2.0 or greater. We also look for GIA 3x as a starting point.

upload_2018-4-20_20-13-13.png

There is absolutely zero reason to want or get an appraisal for 2.5x cost. You want to have an appraisal for the actual cost to buy and replace the ring. Not more. Its shady and will end up costing you more in insurance premiums for no good outcome. Its really done to make you feel that you got a good deal.

For a start, this is a lovely setting and its on sale right now for $1260. Would this work?
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...tline-falling-edge-engagement-ring-item-53073

Here are some diamonds to start with (remember, you are seeing that WAY enlarged).
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4335822 {pretty clean SI2. Good angles. Big in size, but the video is not as impressive as the 1.41 below}

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4535458 {This is a not for me due to the dark inclusions on the table. But, the angles are near perfect and you can see that in the video. So, I'm showing this to show you that SI2s will vary in visibility of those inclusions}

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4389130 {great cut, high clarity so no inclusions to worry about. Can you see the difference in that video? The light movement?}

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3916959.htm {this is a J color, but may suit depending on the wearer color sensitivity}

If you like any of these, put them on hold. We can look for more, but I really like the 1.41 and the two WF below.

I can't seem to post a link to this stone from B2cjewels.com. But, the highlighted one is quite nice.
upload_2018-4-20_20-50-18.png

These are a bit smaller, but are super-ideal with perfection in cutting. These keep color at I.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3970288.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3702264.htm
 

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Thank you so much for the feedback. If anything this exercise tells me I need to do more research before buying. Also that my new budget is around $9k and I really like the cushion halo with a round stone.

Are those setting too common? I think it is a nice combo so long as the diamond covers the square frame.

It helped seeing it in person so I have something to go off. Honestly I was initially trying to avoid buying online but it seems to be a challenge when there is so much misleading information and pressure in person.

So questions, is "I do and now I don't" a legitimate sight? It's looks difficult to find something that wouldn't need resized. My Girlfriend is a 7.25-7.5 in size. I have no superstitiousions about a second hand ring so long as it's quality and provides value.

I really don't want to go under 1.5 in size either.

How can you tell the quality of the band? They were willing to sell me that band I posted for $850. I thought that sounded very reasonable but how do I know if it is a subpar setting?

Being a 7,25 in size originally and then telling me she is a 7.5 makes me wonder which size I should actually be focused on. I don't want to take her to a store or even hint that I'm looking so it doesn't ruin the surprise

Also have been working with a Jeweler in St Martin based on a recommendation. They are difficult to communicate with and I'm not 100% sure. Do you have any thoughts on this? I live in the US.

I could definitely see the difference in those links you posted showing the inclusions.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have mixed info on color as well. When I first started looking I decided to not go darker than a G based on the notes I took.

Anyway now I'm just rambling because it's overwhelming..
 
tboom1446 said:
Thank you so much for the feedback. If anything this exercise tells me I need to do more research before buying. Also that my new budget is around $9k and I really like the cushion halo with a round stone.
Click to expand...
Yes. Its like buying a car or a whiz-bang computer. You do your own research for months to be sure. But, you have the benefit of PS member being whiz bang with diamonds, so that can help make the research phase shorter and more productive.

IDoKnowIDont is a legitimate portal, but offers you little to no buyer protection. You know nothing about the condition of the diamond or setting (did it get chipped, are the prongs loose, etc.). And...you don't know if your girl will have an issue with a pre-owned ring. Some people really have an issue with that unless they are legitimate antiques.

There is a big difference between resell sites like IdonowIdont and the like and legitimate online retailers like JamesAllen, BlueNile, Whiteflash, BrianGavin, HighPerformanceDiamonds. In fact, several of these also have store fronts (or web stores). But, they don't have the enormous overhead and uninformed sales staff of the most common Brick&Mortor stores. There are really good local jewellery stores, but they are increasingly difficult to find. I drive 2 hours from my suburban location near Boston to get to my "local" jeweller located in the rural, western part of the state.

Diamond Size, well. Here is the challenge. From my searches last night, you can find 1.4-1.3 pretty consistently at your budget (I maxed the diamond out at 8700ish). You may find 1.5 but it will take time and searching for quite a while. We've already dropped clarity to SI2, you could flex color down to J -- but my experience is that most can start to see tint at an I. So, with nothing known about your girl, I'd stick at I. So, that leaves you to decide if you have time or money to spend to get your size goal? :mrgreen2: Would your girl really object to a 1.4?

That SI2 1.5 I posted was really nice. It may be worth putting on hold and requesting JA to send you an Idealscope image (IS). That will tell you (with our help) about light return. No cost for that :) That said, a lot of folks would not buy an SI2 for an engagement ring.

If the jeweler you are working with is not showing you good diamonds or setting and hard to work with, why work with them? If they offered you that setting for $850, its either a quality issue or they jacked up the diamond price. There are no deals in jewelry! A setting like you posted in good quality would be $1800-4000.

If you really want a brick and mortar store, IDJewelery in New York is a very popular vendor. They may be able to get the 1.5 and 1.4 stones I posted above and I'd have full faith in their evaluation of the stones. They are are very very good at finding diamonds on a budget. You can reach out to them, tell them your wants and let them know that the folks here sent you to them. They can provide you with images (photos and IS/ASET) and you can post them here for our help.

So, we can help you if you work with a brick and mortar or with an online vendor. Its will be faster if you work with an online vendor both for you and for us to help you, but that's your call. I would not recommend a online resellers site, pawn shop or the like. We have some very savvy members that may post a few pre-owned options from trusted sellers.

Short story
Focus on her size at 7.5. Some settings are difficult to impossible to resize. So, start there. If she has said nothing about her wants and style, I'd recommend that you get a round diamond (I color and above), eyeclean clarity and a simple solitaire setting. Not everyone likes halos, round in cushion or even diamonds on a shank (what???). So, I'd keep it simple. Its very easy to switch out the setting in the future. You could also use a "presentation" solitaire which are very inexpensive and then have her help pick a setting (lots of gals really like this, others want all the romance and "you" picked this hearts and flowers).

Something like this. Simple. 6-prongs. Curvy feminine details with a lovely gallery. I personally prefer platinum which puts this at $700 during the sale. Any vendor you end up working with, we can help find something.
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...e-flower-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-50125

{in case it is on your mind. PS members are not working for any vendors. You'll see "trade" posted on a user if they do. Trade members offer incredible balance and detail with lots of technical help. The rest of us are just diamond nuts.}
 
rockysalamander said:
Yes. Its like buying a car or a whiz-bang computer. You do your own research for months to be sure. But, you have the benefit of PS member being whiz bang with diamonds, so that can help make the research phase shorter and more productive.

IDoKnowIDont is a legitimate portal, but offers you little to no buyer protection. You know nothing about the condition of the diamond or setting (did it get chipped, are the prongs loose, etc.). And...you don't know if your girl will have an issue with a pre-owned ring. Some people really have an issue with that unless they are legitimate antiques.

There is a big difference between resell sites like IdonowIdont and the like and legitimate online retailers like JamesAllen, BlueNile, Whiteflash, BrianGavin, HighPerformanceDiamonds. In fact, several of these also have store fronts (or web stores). But, they don't have the enormous overhead and uninformed sales staff of the most common Brick&Mortor stores. There are really good local jewellery stores, but they are increasingly difficult to find. I drive 2 hours from my suburban location near Boston to get to my "local" jeweller located in the rural, western part of the state.

Diamond Size, well. Here is the challenge. From my searches last night, you can find 1.4-1.3 pretty consistently at your budget (I maxed the diamond out at 8700ish). You may find 1.5 but it will take time and searching for quite a while. We've already dropped clarity to SI2, you could flex color down to J -- but my experience is that most can start to see tint at an I. So, with nothing known about your girl, I'd stick at I. So, that leaves you to decide if you have time or money to spend to get your size goal? :mrgreen2: Would your girl really object to a 1.4?

That SI2 1.5 I posted was really nice. It may be worth putting on hold and requesting JA to send you an Idealscope image (IS). That will tell you (with our help) about light return. No cost for that :) That said, a lot of folks would not buy an SI2 for an engagement ring.

If the jeweler you are working with is not showing you good diamonds or setting and hard to work with, why work with them? If they offered you that setting for $850, its either a quality issue or they jacked up the diamond price. There are no deals in jewelry! A setting like you posted in good quality would be $1800-4000.

If you really want a brick and mortar store, IDJewelery in New York is a very popular vendor. They may be able to get the 1.5 and 1.4 stones I posted above and I'd have full faith in their evaluation of the stones. They are are very very good at finding diamonds on a budget. You can reach out to them, tell them your wants and let them know that the folks here sent you to them. They can provide you with images (photos and IS/ASET) and you can post them here for our help.

So, we can help you if you work with a brick and mortar or with an online vendor. Its will be faster if you work with an online vendor both for you and for us to help you, but that's your call. I would not recommend a online resellers site, pawn shop or the like. We have some very savvy members that may post a few pre-owned options from trusted sellers.

Short story
Focus on her size at 7.5. Some settings are difficult to impossible to resize. So, start there. If she has said nothing about her wants and style, I'd recommend that you get a round diamond (I color and above), eyeclean clarity and a simple solitaire setting. Not everyone likes halos, round in cushion or even diamonds on a shank (what???). So, I'd keep it simple. Its very easy to switch out the setting in the future. You could also use a "presentation" solitaire which are very inexpensive and then have her help pick a setting (lots of gals really like this, others want all the romance and "you" picked this hearts and flowers).

Something like this. Simple. 6-prongs. Curvy feminine details with a lovely gallery. I personally prefer platinum which puts this at $700 during the sale. Any vendor you end up working with, we can help find something.
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...e-flower-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-50125

{in case it is on your mind. PS members are not working for any vendors. You'll see "trade" posted on a user if they do. Trade members offer incredible balance and detail with lots of technical help. The rest of us are just diamond nuts.}
Click to expand...


Thanks again for the advice. I need to figure out that calculator.. What is your best recommendation for an online dealer to work with? I went halo because my girlfriend who's 28, accountant wants me to pick and honestly she is fairly simple. She would love anything I got her even if I came from a gumball machine but I really want to make sure she gets something special.

I live in Chicago, not sure if that helps.. You had mentioned some online jeweler's do have one or two brick and mortar stores. Not a requirement but would be nice to see the product if possible
 
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Sometimes, the cert number won't work. Enter the proportions. But, just visually, you can tell that is not well cut. You can't see any of the arrows.

1) Look at GIA XXX or AGS 000 only
2) Use these parameters. You'll open the certification and look at these 4 values.***
depth - 60 - 62.5%
table - 54- 57.5% (up to 58% with a good CA/PA pairing)
crown angle - 34- 34.5 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 40.8 degrees
girdle - thin to slightly thick, thin to medium, etc (avoid very thin or thick)
polish and symmetry - very good and above
Lower Girdle Facets - 75-80 (though I like closer to 75 when given the choice)

"Cliff''s Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown."

3) Run through the HCA. This is an elimination tool. You eliminate anything over 2.0. What's left, is worth pursuing an IS or ASET image to look at light return.

***PS member will sometimes post for you some that don't meet these numbers. Don't despair or eliminate them out of hand if they are. We are often more experienced at looking at the videos and seeing how the stone performans.
 
tboom1446 said:
... but I really want to make sure she gets something special.
Click to expand...
It will be special because its from YOU. If size is your primary goal, then stick with a simple setting. If she's simple...go simple. Honestly, Tiffany has one of the most popular settings of all time because folks love that simple 6-prong setting.
 
Rocky has you covered tboom, great advice!
 
For online, we cast a wide net for round diamonds. So, JamesAllen, BlueNile, B2C, EnchantedDiamonds, Yadov, BrilliantlyEngaged, DiamondsbyLauren+, JewelsbyGrace+, LoveAffairDiamonds+, VictorCanera*, Whiteflash*, HighPerformanceDiamonds*, BrianGavidDiamonds*, GoodOldGold*, probably more I can't think of right now.

Members with good knowledge of resellers look at Ebay, Etsy and LoupeTroop.
*sells a super-ideal round
+also sells antique or specialty shapes/colors

Can you give us a bit more about your girl? Would you say she's a fan of modern/contemporary or more vintage? Does she have a huge shoe/nailpolish/clothing collection? Is she a jeans and shirt gal? What does she do professionally? Hobbies? What color metal is her other jewelry? What does she wear on a daily basis for jewelry?
 
Even thought she's 28 we're both old fashioned. Our house is full of antiques which most people find odd but we like it.. She is definitely more of a jeans and shirt kind of girl. She can still dress to impress

She is a senior forensic accountant. Hobbies are camping, bowling and we travel a lot. Rarely spend a weekend at home.

Her other jewelry is silver for the most part. She wears a necklace that is silver but it has sentimental items on it. Nothing to flashy. I got her a nice Bulova watch she wears to dinners and events.

This help?
 
tboom1446 said:
Even thought she's 28 we're both old fashioned. Our house is full of antiques which most people find odd but we like it.. She is definitely more of a jeans and shirt kind of girl. She can still dress to impress

She is a senior forensic accountant. Hobbies are camping, bowling and we travel a lot. Rarely spend a weekend at home.

Her other jewelry is silver for the most part. She wears a necklace that is silver but it has sentimental items on it. Nothing to flashy. I got her a nice Bulova watch she wears to dinners and events.

This help?
Click to expand...

Do you think she might enjoy a vintage type diamond in that case?
 
tboom1446 said:
Even thought she's 28 we're both old fashioned. Our house is full of antiques which most people find odd but we like it.. She is definitely more of a jeans and shirt kind of girl. She can still dress to impress

She is a senior forensic accountant. Hobbies are camping, bowling and we travel a lot. Rarely spend a weekend at home.

Her other jewelry is silver for the most part. She wears a necklace that is silver but it has sentimental items on it. Nothing to flashy. I got her a nice Bulova watch she wears to dinners and events.

This help?
Click to expand...
Yes!!! Why not look for an antique diamond? I adore them and they are beautiful. She will be very detail oriented so symmetry and pattern will matter. You need a setting with some girdle protection. Looking and will post some...

Haha @Lorelei and I are on the save wavelength this morning.
 
rockysalamander said:
Yes!!! Why not look for an antique diamond? I adore them and they are beautiful. She will be very detail oriented so symmetry and pattern will matter. You need a setting with some girdle protection. Looking and will post some...

Haha @Lorelei and I are on the save wavelength this morning.
Click to expand...

I think we're cosmically connected.....

hippygirl.gif
 
I am definitely open to checking out the vintage style. I have not looked into them at all yet.
 
How about this one? Click on the video tab. I know I said I and above, but old cuts don't show color as much as modern rounds. So, I'm cool with J for a white-face on a old diamond. Old cuts were hand cut, so compare them by size in MM (not weight in carats). Sometimes a smaller weight will have a bigger spread.

https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-53ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-j-vs2

This is a bit smaller, but its later in the old cut cutting and so has a bit of a modern flair.
https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-35ct-transitional-cut-diamond-gia-i-vs2

I am posting this for the setting, as the stone it out of budget. But, something bezel set like this can be very protective of the diamond and allow her to wear it during more activities (but NOT bowling. Diamonds and bowling don't mix). I'd have them lower the setting to make the ring as low as possible for an active gal.
http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-59ct-transitional-cut-diamond-in-lad-eliza-solitaire-gia-f-vs1/

This setting has more prongs and detail. Lovely gallery. More prongs=more protection.
https://www.cvbinspireddesign.com/product/dahlia-ring/

Thoughts?
 
This is a beautiful and classic setting.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/570700...t?ga_search_query=gia&ref=shop_items_search_3 {K color, lovely setting and stone. It does not say the size, but it is a setting that can be re-sized. This is known vendor for antique stones. Just stick with GIA graded ones)

And UNDER budget if you think she would not mind the K color which will face-up white, but show tint from the side. I don't mind color in old cuts, but that's me.

This belongs to a PS member who is consigning it. Its lovely and huge. But, the diamond has a clear body color. But, so very gorgeous and huge and in budget.
https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/2-13ct-old-european-cut-diamond-belcher-ring-gia-qr-vs2
 
Last edited:
I do like the look of the six prong. I'll have to think on the vintage diamond. While I like the look I have to somehow figure out if she would love it or not. I can't ask because it will ruin the surprise. I know she is always on pintrest but I haven't seen any rings..
rockysalamander said:
This is a beautiful and classic setting.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/570700...t?ga_search_query=gia&ref=shop_items_search_3 {K color, lovely setting and stone. It does not say the size, but it is a setting that can be re-sized. This is known vendor for antique stones. Just stick with GIA graded ones)

And UNDER budget if you think she would not mind the K color which will face-up white, but show tint from the side. I don't mind color in old cuts, but that's me.

This belongs to a PS member who is consigning it. Its lovely and huge. But, the diamond has a clear body color. But, so very gorgeous and huge and in budget.
https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/2-13ct-old-european-cut-diamond-belcher-ring-gia-qr-vs2
Click to expand...
 
Hi tboom,

I know you said you wanted to be above 1.5 carats. In diamonds there are magic numbers. Lots of stones are cut badly on purpose to be just over a magic number in weight. The diamond you were looking at is tall and skinny. You should think diameter, not magic number.

There are lots of other examples but, consider this one:

https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond...t_arrows-I-AGS--SI1-diamond-stock-16279-cert-

This one is 1.32 carat--way below 1.6--but it's (almost) the same diameter, it's so perfectly cut that it boggles the mind--and it's $7,900, leaving $1,400 for your setting.

As far as setting, this is a site (which is unfortunately a bit of a mess) that makes reproductions of antiques that many PSers have used:

https://www.jansjewells.com/

They have a huge price range and you'll have to talk to them anyhow as antique settings often have funky proportions and they'll need all your stone measurements.
 
tboom1446 said:
Thanks again for the advice. I need to figure out that calculator.. What is your best recommendation for an online dealer to work with? I went halo because my girlfriend who's 28, accountant wants me to pick and honestly she is fairly simple. She would love anything I got her even if I came from a gumball machine but I really want to make sure she gets something special.

I live in Chicago, not sure if that helps.. You had mentioned some online jeweler's do have one or two brick and mortar stores. Not a requirement but would be nice to see the product if possible
Click to expand...

Ivy and Rose who have been suggested earlier in the thread are located in Chicago, so you could go check them out. That would also help you decide if you like the idea of antique stones.
 
Okay, I just brought it up in conversation with her. I know I'm jumping all over but we've been together almost 5 years so it's pretty easy to get info out of her and she already has saved photos on her phone lol.

She doesn't want a high set ring because she doesn't want to get it caught in anything. She is most interested in what I would describe to be non symmetrical vines for the band, no halo. It shows actual nature on the band. She also says simple, doesn't need too much flash so maybe the traditional would be a better option?

Her words and i quote "high class hillbilly" so I hope you guys can interpret that? Just to be clear while we do like camping and fishing we are both professionals in the work force.. Just meaning I don't want a cheap ring, rather something that lines up with this unusual request
 
leukolenos said:
Ivy and Rose who have been suggested earlier in the thread are located in Chicago, so you could go check them out. That would also help you decide if you like the idea of antique stones.
Click to expand...

I must have missed the Ivy and Rose section. Yea I see they're right downtown.
 
tboom1446 said:
Okay, I just brought it up in conversation with her. I know I'm jumping all over but we've been together almost 5 years so it's pretty easy to get info out of her and she already has saved photos on her phone lol.

She doesn't want a high set ring because she doesn't want to get it caught in anything. She is most interested in what I would describe to be non symmetrical vines for the band, no halo. It shows actual nature on the band. She also says simple, doesn't need too much flash so maybe the traditional would be a better option?

Her words and i quote "high class hillbilly" so I hope you guys can interpret that? Just to be clear while we do like camping and fishing we are both professionals in the work force.. Just meaning I don't want a cheap ring, rather something that lines up with this unusual request
Click to expand...

Would it be possible to snitch some of the photos stored on her phone and post them here?:saint:
 
Ok. But, that style can really be executed with more elegance. With a design like this, I'd get a setting quote (let us help you with stones) from GreenLakeJewelry Works. David Klass, a popular cutstom vendor, is also quite capable of this kind of design. I'm guessing between $1500-2000 for the setting.

https://www.greenlakejewelry.com/gallery/cust_gallery.aspx?ImageID=84826
https://www.greenlakejewelry.com/gallery/cust_gallery.aspx?ImageID=104309
https://www.greenlakejewelry.com/gallery/cust_gallery.aspx?ImageID=74493
https://www.greenlakejewelry.com/gallery/cust_gallery.aspx?ImageID=87504
https://www.greenlakejewelry.com/gallery/gallery_detail.aspx?ImgID=95859
https://www.krikawa.com/rings/mokume-river-twist-engagement-ring
https://www.greenlakejewelry.com/gallery/cust_gallery.aspx?ImageID= 102164

Does this help?
 
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Here's the link to that setting, but I would not buy it from them. There are some issues with the finishing and the quality of the casting. I'd work with David Klass. Keep it white metal, platinum if you can afford it, unplated white gold or palladium. For an active person, I'd try to avoid plated metals.

I'd ask David to take this as inspiration, but that you'd like to allow for a flush wedding band and make sure the point leaves face inward (not outward like the one on the bottom left).

https://www.etsy.com/listing/170808...dow&utm_campaign=row_buyer&utm_content=349271

White Metal Version. https://www.etsy.com/listing/205994...dow&utm_campaign=row_buyer&utm_content=349271

https://www.facebook.com/david.klass.jewelry/
607 South Hill St, Arcade 8
Los Angeles, California 90014
(213) 489-4569

I usually just phone him, but if you are patient email also works.

The problem, as I see it, is we were not able to get you to your desired 1.5 c with the existing budget. if you spend $1500-2000ish on a custom setting, that drops that budget even more. So, how do you want to proceed?
 
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