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GIA Triple EX - Do I really need to know more?

tristanking

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
25
I am getting close to buying a diamond and looking at a 2 carat, round, G VS2 diamond. I want the cut to be as good as it gets, best of the best, and the diamond to be brilliant, no pun intended.

I have looked at the "A Cut Above" diamonds from WhiteFlash, "Ascendency" from Good old Gold, Brian Gavin, and finally I am in talks with a local jeweler. My budget is 25k-30k. So, if I can get a little bigger than 2, great, but I wont budge on cut, and for some reason G and VS2 makes me feel good.

My local jeweler has been in the business 50 years and I believe is a GIA certified gemologist. He is bringing in a few GIA Triple Excellent stones for me to look at. He says GIA is the industry standard and if it is Triple EX from them I will be in great shape. He doesn't think I should be worried about getting an AGS certificate or be concerned with the "marketing tactics" of the abovementioned websites, which claim their cuts are better. The website are big on AGS triple 000 ideal, and pitch the light performance testing of the lab and the importance of the AsetScope, hearts and arrows patterns, making sure the diamond has no leakage, etc.

MY QUESTION: If he shows me three GIA triple EX diamonds, do I need to have the supporting evidence of all these light performance tests the websites talk about to make sure the diamond performs spectacularly, or with that rating would the diamond absolutely pass those tests? The websites make me think I need to do the extra due diligence and utilize all these tests in case I get a weak performing GIA triple EX, the jeweler makes me think the GIA triple EX should be enough to show its the best of the best.



Any advice or guidance?
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 31, 2014
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10,424
I hate to contradict your jeweler, but he just isn't correct on this. It is true that GIA XXX is a great place to start, and will get you within the top echelon of diamonds, but if you want the cut to be "as good as it gets", which is sounds like you do, then you need more than just GIA XXX. You need to use the HCA tool (linked under the "tools" part at the top of the forum page) in order to make sure that the GIA XXX diamond is a top performer. Typically AGS has stricter grading standards (at least that's what I've taken away from being on the forum), so you are safer with an AGS 000 than with a GIA XXX (since it seems like GIA XXX is a fairly large range).


The nice thing about things like ACA from WF or the GOG branded cuts is that they are "pre-vetted" for you, so you don't need to agonize over the HCA, etc. So for people who don't mind spending a bit extra $ and want to know they've gotten the best without "digging" through virtual inventory it's an awesome option. Also WF has a great upgrade policy, which is helpful peace of mind for many people. I'd also add that the ACA stones are competitively priced, so it's not as though one is spending a TON more just for the branded name. For me, it's kind of a money/time tradeoff. If I were in a position to spend a sizable amount on a diamond (which to me is 5K +) I would want to know I got the best value for my money and had the option to trade up. So if I didn't have time to look around, I'd likely go with WF because I'd save time and effort by getting it from them vs. doing my own searching. BUT the PS experts here can help find an amazing stone, so that's a consideration as well.

Overall I'd say that your jeweler just doesn't want to lose a sale, so he's not being totally honest with you here.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
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9,776
lovedogs|1476910531|4088721 said:
I hate to contradict your jeweler, but he just isn't correct on this. It is true that GIA XXX is a great place to start, and will get you within the top echelon of diamonds, but if you want the cut to be "as good as it gets", which is sounds like you do, then you need more than just GIA XXX. You need to use the HCA tool (linked under the "tools" part at the top of the forum page) in order to make sure that the GIA XXX diamond is a top performer. Typically AGS has stricter grading standards (at least that's what I've taken away from being on the forum), so you are safer with an AGS 000 than with a GIA XXX (since it seems like GIA XXX is a fairly large range).


The nice thing about things like ACA from WF or the GOG branded cuts is that they are "pre-vetted" for you, so you don't need to agonize over the HCA, etc. So for people who don't mind spending a bit extra $ and want to know they've gotten the best without "digging" through virtual inventory it's an awesome option. Also WF has a great upgrade policy, which is helpful peace of mind for many people. I'd also add that the ACA stones are competitively priced, so it's not as though one is spending a TON more just for the branded name. For me, it's kind of a money/time tradeoff. If I were in a position to spend a sizable amount on a diamond (which to me is 5K +) I would want to know I got the best value for my money and had the option to trade up. So if I didn't have time to look around, I'd likely go with WF because I'd save time and effort by getting it from them vs. doing my own searching. BUT the PS experts here can help find an amazing stone, so that's a consideration as well.

Overall I'd say that your jeweler just doesn't want to lose a sale, so he's not being totally honest with you here.
This... all of it.
 

tristanking

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
25
Thanks for the advice. Regarding the video, obviously the one diamond which was GIA xxx didn't look as good as the other one. I am curious, I saw somewhere on GOG's website where they use some GIA software and perhaps AGS too, any chance this was a GIA xxx based on their software not an actual diamond sent to GIA in CA and graded xxx there? I would assume diamonds graded at GIA in CA would be more scrutinized than a software program someone outside GiA could buy. I have no idea though.

Assuming a GIA xxx doesn't gaurantee great performance, besides buying an ACA from Whitelfash or an Ascendancy from GOG (which I'm not ruling out) , what other steps can I take to ensure I get the ultimate performer? Do I request the diamond be sent to AGS, and if it gets a 000 there in addition to the GIA xxx am I then sure it's as good as it gets? I can't tell if AGS utilizes the various tools already in their final grading, like the ASET, and others I see mentioned online. If they already use those to grade I'm assuming it's overkill for me to look more at those independently, or request someone look at them for me.

Thanks for your help.
 

ringo865

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 14, 2014
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2,368
Here's the cheat sheet for rounds (compiled from various experts on PS):

depth - 60 - 62%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - thin to slightly thick, thin to medium, etc (avoid very thin or thick)
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

Also, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here''s a "Cliff''s Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35). In other words, there are some GIA Excellents that are better than others.

Also, always check diameter to be sure stone faces up as large as it should, ex: 1 ct. 6.5mm, 1.5 cts. 7.4mm, etc.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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tristanking|1476915442|4088749 said:
Thanks for the advice. Regarding the video, obviously the one diamond which was GIA xxx didn't look as good as the other one. I am curious, I saw somewhere on GOG's website where they use some GIA software and perhaps AGS too, any chance this was a GIA xxx based on their software not an actual diamond sent to GIA in CA and graded xxx there? I would assume diamonds graded at GIA in CA would be more scrutinized than a software program someone outside GiA could buy. I have no idea though.

Assuming a GIA xxx doesn't gaurantee great performance, besides buying an ACA from Whitelfash or an Ascendancy from GOG (which I'm not ruling out) , what other steps can I take to ensure I get the ultimate performer? Do I request the diamond be sent to AGS, and if it gets a 000 there in addition to the GIA xxx am I then sure it's as good as it gets? I can't tell if AGS utilizes the various tools already in their final grading, like the ASET, and others I see mentioned online. If they already use those to grade I'm assuming it's overkill for me to look more at those independently, or request someone look at them for me.

Thanks for your help.
No, some AGS000 are better than others. If you are trying to get the very best you can without buying an ACA, Ascendancy, BGD or CBI,
then you need to see an Idealscope or Aset image to check for leakage and a H&A view to check for hearts and arrows.

You can have an AGS000 but it's not going to be top of the line like the above stones. Will it be good enough? You decide...would you
want one of these AGS000 stones...ignore any inclusion...just look at the cut.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-g-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2145827
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-476062
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.31-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-1887933
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.62-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-476072
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.02-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2069266
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
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1,449
Are those meant to be examples of subpar AGS 000?

I cannot see anything wrong the 1.31 (the arrows are washed out at an angle, but not washed out in the idealscope) and I'm not sure what was wrong with the 1.62 (although symmetry is possibly a little off).

tristanking|1476915442|4088749 said:
Thanks for the advice. Regarding the video, obviously the one diamond which was GIA xxx didn't look as good as the other one. I am curious, I saw somewhere on GOG's website where they use some GIA software and perhaps AGS too, any chance this was a GIA xxx based on their software not an actual diamond sent to GIA in CA and graded xxx there? I would assume diamonds graded at GIA in CA would be more scrutinized than a software program someone outside GiA could buy. I have no idea though.
Interesting perspective. Those stones on GOG are either genuine AGS or GIA certified as well. They do have their own sarin machine which runs GIA facetware, and they also have AGS software to run light ray analysis. You can be assured when they state GIA XXX it would be a GIA XXX as would be graded by GIA themselves (as they most likely are GIA certified diamonds as well).

Interesting perspective though.
 

Passion4diamonds

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
85
You'll have a great chance of getting an ideal diamond larger than 2 carats if you lower your color preference down to H. You (or anybody else) will not be able to tell the difference between G and H. Even going down to an eye clean SI1 will allow you to stretch your budget and get closer to 2.5 which I'm sure she'd be thrilled with! Others can chime in on this. I'd stick with GOG, WF and other online vendors that offer Aset, Sarin and videos without hassle. GOG seems the best at this in my opinion. Do you happen to live in or near NY? You could go into GOG yourself if so.
 

marcy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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IMO AGS000 are more consistently better performing diamonds than GIA XXX. This opinion is based solely on the few dozen or so diamonds I have seen and handled in person. Even if you don't purchase locally I think it's worth your time to compare some AGS000 and GIA XXX side by side to see for yourself which you prefer.
 

ChristineRose

Brilliant_Rock
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A GIA XXX will not be ugly, but the grade covers a range of proportions--basically, they were trying to include a variety of tastes.

The real problem (and this is just my opinion) is that the majority of stones now are cut to just barely hit the XXX range. That means that most stones are catering to the tastes of people who have unusual preferences.
 

tristanking

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
25
Thanks you all so much, you have given me some great feedback.
To be on the safe side, I wonder if online vendors or even brick and mortars jewelers would send the diamond in to AGS (if the diamond is currently GIA XXX) or send to GIA (if the diamond is AGS000) so I can get confirmation and the comfort of knowing both places rated the diamond and hopefully comes back XXX and OOO. After that, sounds like I need someone to run an IdealScope, Aset image, and Hearts and Arrows view to make sure it checks all those boxes as well.
Is this too much to ask of someone? Not sure if folks send in diamonds for double certification and this extra legwork may turn them off. I don't want to be a hassle, just want the peace of mind of knowing I got a great cut.
 

OoohShiny

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If you're buying a diamond then sending it off to be checked/graded by GIA (again?) and/or AGS, it is a bit of a faff and will add a couple of hundred USD to your price (IIRC). A small amount compared to the overall budget, but it is a bit of a faff.

Consider this - if AGS000 realises a better price on the open market than GIA XXX, why would a cutter send a stone to GIA? My understanding (from what has been posted on here) is that cutters will send stones to the grading house that will give them the best result on paper - so if it's not gone to AGS, it's likely because they know it won't hit AGS000, therefore going for GIA XXX looks better on paper to the (uneducated) buying public. The odds of any given GIA XXX therefore achieving AGS000 would appear to be slim.

Personally speaking, having bought a branded Super-Ideal cut myself, I would definitely do it again. You pay a little extra for guaranteeing it is in the top 0.01% of the stones on the open market, but you also get a trade-in and/or buy-back policy, a period of time to inspect it at your home and/or compare it at a local jewellers that is showing you similar stones (after which you can return it free if charge if you prefer the stones locally), and the vast majority of the time, an excellent customer service experience that is not trying to denigrate other retailers' offerings because the PS-recommended retailers know they are selling the best-of-the-best and have no need to put others down - the diamonds sell themselves.


ChristineRose|1476970304|4088897 said:
A GIA XXX will not be ugly, but the grade covers a range of proportions--basically, they were trying to include a variety of tastes.

The real problem (and this is just my opinion) is that the majority of stones now are cut to just barely hit the XXX range. That means that most stones are catering to the tastes of people who have unusual preferences.
I was chatting to one of our recommended vendors recently - as they noted, something like 60% of all stones cut now fall into the GIA XXX category. Which begs the question: "Really??"

Assuming a standard bell-curve should be applicable to cut quality (and therefore light performance), as it is to a great many situations in life, the 60% being XXX does not fit with any kind of bell-curve shape, as far as I can tell...


EDIT: Don't forget to check out the Crafted by Infinity stones:

http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/?hpd_search=&min_price=25000&max_price=34500&orderby=price&min_carat=2.00&max_carat=3.00&min_color=&max_color=&min_clarity=flawless&max_clarity=vs2
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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tristanking|1476971193|4088899 said:
Thanks you all so much, you have given me some great feedback.
To be on the safe side, I wonder if online vendors or even brick and mortars jewelers would send the diamond in to AGS (if the diamond is currently GIA XXX) or send to GIA (if the diamond is AGS000) so I can get confirmation and the comfort of knowing both places rated the diamond and hopefully comes back XXX and OOO. After that, sounds like I need someone to run an IdealScope, Aset image, and Hearts and Arrows view to make sure it checks all those boxes as well.
Is this too much to ask of someone? Not sure if folks send in diamonds for double certification and this extra legwork may turn them off. I don't want to be a hassle, just want the peace of mind of knowing I got a great cut.

Some, like your jeweler will tell you that its not necessary. Some will do it but it will probably be at your expense.
AGS fees plus shipping back and forth. Cost depends on size of stone. And what happens if the stone does not come back as
an AGS000?

It's probably too much to ask of a jeweler who does not have the tools to do an Idealscope, aset and H&A. If you can find a jeweler
that has the tools then it should not be a big deal.

My take...since you want a well cut stone with verification of light return why not start by looking at AGS000 stones instead of
GIA. You can skip the steps of having to send it off/waiting/possibly having it not come back as AGS000. Just makes sense to me.
Tell whatever jeweler you choose to work with that you only want to look at AGS000 stones.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
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tristanking|1476915442|4088749 said:
Thanks for the advice. Regarding the video, obviously the one diamond which was GIA xxx didn't look as good as the other one. I am curious, I saw somewhere on GOG's website where they use some GIA software and perhaps AGS too, any chance this was a GIA xxx based on their software not an actual diamond sent to GIA in CA and graded xxx there? I would assume diamonds graded at GIA in CA would be more scrutinized than a software program someone outside GiA could buy. I have no idea though.

Assuming a GIA xxx doesn't gaurantee great performance, besides buying an ACA from Whitelfash or an Ascendancy from GOG (which I'm not ruling out) , what other steps can I take to ensure I get the ultimate performer? Do I request the diamond be sent to AGS, and if it gets a 000 there in addition to the GIA xxx am I then sure it's as good as it gets? I can't tell if AGS utilizes the various tools already in their final grading, like the ASET, and others I see mentioned online. If they already use those to grade I'm assuming it's overkill for me to look more at those independently, or request someone look at them for me.

Thanks for your help.
Hi Tristan,

Just for clarification the diamond in the video is in fact a GIA Ex and not just based on the software. The software we use is actually leased from GIA and AGS and rarely if ever are they in disagreement. Not only this but the software is used in conjunction with one of the best scanners on the market, the Sarin HD machine with interchangeable lens.

Hope that helps.
Rhino
 

tristanking

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
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I think the reason I would want the diamond to be both GIA XXX and AGS 000 is to have absolute certainty, from the two most respected labs in the U.S., that the diamond meets their top criteria. From there, I would be able to have someone make sure it is a high performer with the IdealScope/Aset/Hearts and Arrows to narrow it to the best choice.

I would be fine paying a couple hundred bucks for shipping to a lab for the double certificate peace of mind.

Regarding what happens if it is sent to AGS and doesn't come back 000, or if it is sent to GIA and doesn't come back XXX, then I don't buy the diamond is my thought. If the diamond is supposed to be as good as the vendor says, I would assume it hits the top cut from the lab. If it doesn't hit the top cut, I would think the vendor would have pause about pitching the diamond as the best of the best.

Sounds like my local jeweler may not be up to this task, as he is very passionate about GIA and don't think he wants to deal with sending to AGS and utilizing the extra tools to narrow it down further. I was hoping to use him since I would prefer someone local to set the stone and have a place I trust to get it cleaned and serviced.

With my criteria, any thoughts on places you all think would be willing to help me get the double certificate (id pay) and use the tools to narrow down further, and have great folks who would set the diamond for me? My local guy supposedly has one of the best gals around who does that, which he says is very important and impacts how the diamond looks, so I suppose I shouldn't overlook who is setting the diamond.
thanks again!
 

ChristineRose

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
926
Rather than having a diamond with two certs, you would be best off buying an in-house, vetted superideal from one the recommended vendors. This will cost you something extra, but probably not as much as sending a batch of diamonds to both labs. The branded stones will be better cut than most AGS 000 and GIA XXX, not to mention better than millions of other stones.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
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Is your $25k-30k budget including the actual ring as well as the stone? Or just the stone?


I agree with the above comments - just buy a branded SuperIdeal cut from Whiteflash / Brian Gavin / High Performance Diamonds / Good Old Gold and be done with. The extra work to get a double-graded stone is somewhat of a waste of time if you just buy AGS000 in the first place, as I think I'm right in saying that all AGS000 will be GIA XXX (but not all GIA XXX will be AGS000). You can rest assured from the many and varied posters' comments on this forum that the SuperIdeals are as good as they get, although I appreciate that due diligence does of course mean that you should exercise due caution on the internet.


While it's great that your local jeweller is enthusiastic about GIA (which, along with AGS, is a more reliable grading company) he is naturally inclined towards them due to his training and years of engrained experience telling him that GIA is the best.

If I were you, I would ask if he would consider setting an outside stone. If he is open to it, that would mean you can then order an AGS000 SuperIdeal from one of the recommended vendors, bring it to his shop, compare it to his stones, and whichever you like, you can get set by him. He gets some business either way, and perhaps even might have his eyes opened as to just how good AGS000 really can be.
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
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tristanking|1476976446|4088917 said:
I think the reason I would want the diamond to be both GIA XXX and AGS 000 is to have absolute certainty, from the two most respected labs in the U.S., that the diamond meets their top criteria. From there, I would be able to have someone make sure it is a high performer with the IdealScope/Aset/Hearts and Arrows to narrow it to the best choice.

I would be fine paying a couple hundred bucks for shipping to a lab for the double certificate peace of mind.

Regarding what happens if it is sent to AGS and doesn't come back 000, or if it is sent to GIA and doesn't come back XXX, then I don't buy the diamond is my thought. If the diamond is supposed to be as good as the vendor says, I would assume it hits the top cut from the lab. If it doesn't hit the top cut, I would think the vendor would have pause about pitching the diamond as the best of the best.

Sounds like my local jeweler may not be up to this task, as he is very passionate about GIA and don't think he wants to deal with sending to AGS and utilizing the extra tools to narrow it down further. I was hoping to use him since I would prefer someone local to set the stone and have a place I trust to get it cleaned and serviced.

With my criteria, any thoughts on places you all think would be willing to help me get the double certificate (id pay) and use the tools to narrow down further, and have great folks who would set the diamond for me? My local guy supposedly has one of the best gals around who does that, which he says is very important and impacts how the diamond looks, so I suppose I shouldn't overlook who is setting the diamond.
thanks again!
I just have a comment about the statement marked in red above: Some diamonds that are cut to AGS parameters and having ray traced light performance to AGS 000 standards will be outside the parameters for the GIA XXX. AGS grades diamonds on light performance, not on 2D angles. Some diamonds that merit an XXX grade by GIA will grade as low as AGS 5 with a few even going as low as AGS 6 cut grades. Of course, some will also merit an AGS 0 cut grade. Your problem with a GIA XXX grading report is knowing which is which.

The other issue is grading consistency. AGS with its one laboratory is much more consistent at this time than GIA which has many laboratories and is constantly hiring seasonal employees to grade their diamonds depending on how many reports they need. You can be sure that the bigger cutters know which labs are grading easiest on color and or clarity and will often shop diamonds that they believe could receive that next grade higher in either if they feel it is a borderline call.

You can read more about the grading consistency issues in this excellent post by John Pollard, US executive of Crafted by Infinity diamonds: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-69ct-g-vvs2-worries-feather-natural-ags-color-clarity.203189/#p3698017']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-69ct-g-vvs2-worries-feather-natural-ags-color-clarity.203189/#p3698017[/URL]

I wish you luck with your search.

Wink
 

Texas Leaguer

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I have personally only seen one AGS 0 that did not get GIA EX. And that was because the diamond had some painting on the crown. It was a super ideal precision cut that had been intentionally crafted to eliminate the small amount of leakage present in conventional indexing.

By penalizing such a stone, the GIA cut grade system reveals one of it's shortcomings. Because the GIA system does not actually analyze light performance, it cannot differentiate between 'good' painting and bad. It penalizes all stones the same.

As has already been mentioned, the vast majority of AGS 0 will also be GIA triple, but most Triple EX will not make AGS 0 because more weight can be retained by cutting to the margins of the GIA EX grade. In doing so, there are light performance deficits.

If your emphasis is on top cut quality, seeking out an AGS 0 is the way to go. If you want a dual cert start with an AGS 0 and send to GIA. But realize that there is an understood variability in color and clarity grading +or - one grade. Color and clarity calls are ultimately made by human graders and both color and clarity grades are small ranges and a given stone can be right at the border of color or clarity or both.
 

Strawberry129

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Jul 28, 2016
Messages
91
tristanking|1476971193|4088899 said:
Thanks you all so much, you have given me some great feedback.
To be on the safe side, I wonder if online vendors or even brick and mortars jewelers would send the diamond in to AGS (if the diamond is currently GIA XXX) or send to GIA (if the diamond is AGS000) so I can get confirmation and the comfort of knowing both places rated the diamond and hopefully comes back XXX and OOO. After that, sounds like I need someone to run an IdealScope, Aset image, and Hearts and Arrows view to make sure it checks all those boxes as well.
Is this too much to ask of someone? Not sure if folks send in diamonds for double certification and this extra legwork may turn them off. I don't want to be a hassle, just want the peace of mind of knowing I got a great cut.
If you're worried about light performance...why not just look for vendors that provide you with ASET, Idealscope, proportion scans, from the start...This way you'll be avoiding the "downtime" of looking for possible candidates and then sending it out (which time=money) with the hope that it scores well on both.

Or just buy your own ASET, idealscope and go look at local jewelry stores since that's the goal of an ideal cut with minimal light leakage...no need to feel assured on what a piece of paper says when you can see with your very eyes. :loopy: Having a piece of paper to assure you is nice, but don't forget that your eyes work. If it's an excellent cut with great light performance, rest assured that it will have a great AGS score. If it's an AGS stone with great optics, rest assured that it most likely will pass a GIA graded excellent cut

Looking for a local jewelry store with XXX diamond in hopes that it will have ideal optics. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes it just feels like an endless search. (Ask me how I know :-o ) Also, ask if your local jeweler can set an outside stone. Even if he cannot, many people have bought setting and stones from outside vendors and gotten it cleaned at their local jewelry store. Vendors will either charge you a very minimal price or are just happy that you're shopping their goods while they clean your ring.

PS: Also read this on symmetry and polish: http://www.goodoldgold.com/platinum-select-diamonds
 

tristanking

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
25
I guess the reason I won't just buy an AGS 000 diamond without a GIA cert is I can't imagine spending 25k-30k on a diamond and not having one of the most respected grading labs in the world grading it. It seems like AGS is the preferred method for online shoppers, and by no means am I saying I don't agree that AGS is great, I just don't see why I wouldn't pay a small % of the overall price of the diamond to also have the industry standard, GIA - in some people's opinion - verify it. I would send it to the main campus in Carlsbad CA.

I don't need 10 certs or numerous labs looking at it, just GIA and AGS. If there was legitimate evidence that GIA wasn't as good, then I would have second thoughts about needing that extra cert. At this time, I just haven't seen the evidence and don't see the downside.Some folks have XXX that don't look great and some folks have 000 that GIA wouldn't give XXX to. It doesn't seem clear cut, bad pun.

I found this study done by GIA. Hard to imagine these guys aren't top tier with this kind of research.

http://www.gia.edu/gems-gemology/fall-2004-grading-cut-quality-brilliant-diamond-moses
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,163
I respect GIA's color and clarity grades, but not their cut grades.
I respect all grades from AGS.

If you're buying a round diamond graded by GIA make sure it has an HCA score under 2.0.
Next, it ALSO must have a good Idealscope image since rounding of numbers from the grading report can fool the HCA, but cannot fool an Idealsope photograph.

If the shape is not round I can only judge the cut by a properly-taken ASET image.
 

tristanking

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
25
Great feedback on here folks, I really appreciate it. I'm thinking I should work with gog, whiteflash, or cbi. Would you all just recommend calling the main number and talk with whoever or ask for someone specific? Would love to work with the most educated folks so i make the best choice.
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
621
You can call any of the vendors, but this is my PERSONAL opinion:

If you really want the best, rarest, top of the line diamond in the world, then skip the others and go to CBI.

With CBI you're getting a little more than you are with the other vendors because they are cut by CBI and distributed by CBI. You can even meet the cutter who cut your stone or speak to him if you'd like. It's the ultimate in knowing exactly where your stone came from, from beginning to end.

There is currently a 2.01 G/VS2 from them available at the very top of your budget. However, for your money, you are getting something pretty special.

That's not to say ACA/AGS000/BG Signature/BG Black/etc aren't gorgeous. But if what you're going for is assurance that you have the best, then CBI is the way to go and you can always tell the story that you know exactly where it came from and it's a very rare stone.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
tristanking|1476992147|4089000 said:
Great feedback on here folks, I really appreciate it. I'm thinking I should work with gog, whiteflash, or cbi. Would you all just recommend calling the main number and talk with whoever or ask for someone specific? Would love to work with the most educated folks so i make the best choice.

Probably the owner of GOG Jonathan. He is very educated in diamond measurements and performance. He is the original on the Internet since I first started reading on another board in 1999. None of the rest were here then, well Wink was but only
GoodoldGold had a website. I searched the whole of alta vista, yahoo ....whatever the search engines were back then and there
was only Jonathan at Good Old Gold. Certainly done his apprenticeship. He is a Gemologist ofcourse.

p.s. There are lots of educational videos by Jonathan on You Tube just look up Good Old Gold and see for yourself what you think about him.

By the way I actually bought from a different vendor to end up with due to the actual stone I wanted. However if you want to discuss with someone I would definitely recommend only Good Old Gold and only Jonathan, I know he has family working there and others too but I would ask for him personally for
a large purchase.

Whiteflash have sales reps

CBI have authorised dealer, Wink on the board here would be a great one too.
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
kb1gra|1476998209|4089030 said:
You can call any of the vendors, but this is my PERSONAL opinion:

If you really want the best, rarest, top of the line diamond in the world, then skip the others and go to CBI.

With CBI you're getting a little more than you are with the other vendors because they are cut by CBI and distributed by CBI. You can even meet the cutter who cut your stone or speak to him if you'd like. It's the ultimate in knowing exactly where your stone came from, from beginning to end.

There is currently a 2.01 G/VS2 from them available at the very top of your budget. However, for your money, you are getting something pretty special.

That's not to say ACA/AGS000/BG Signature/BG Black/etc aren't gorgeous. But if what you're going for is assurance that you have the best, then CBI is the way to go and you can always tell the story that you know exactly where it came from and it's a very rare stone.
I can't see any difference in quality between the top of the line cuts from what I've seen (albeit on the internet). The history of the stone is something you pay a premium for, and that is not synonymous with improved light performance.
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
621
gm89uk|1477002602|4089046 said:
kb1gra|1476998209|4089030 said:
You can call any of the vendors, but this is my PERSONAL opinion:

If you really want the best, rarest, top of the line diamond in the world, then skip the others and go to CBI.

With CBI you're getting a little more than you are with the other vendors because they are cut by CBI and distributed by CBI. You can even meet the cutter who cut your stone or speak to him if you'd like. It's the ultimate in knowing exactly where your stone came from, from beginning to end.

There is currently a 2.01 G/VS2 from them available at the very top of your budget. However, for your money, you are getting something pretty special.

That's not to say ACA/AGS000/BG Signature/BG Black/etc aren't gorgeous. But if what you're going for is assurance that you have the best, then CBI is the way to go and you can always tell the story that you know exactly where it came from and it's a very rare stone.
I can't see any difference in quality between the top of the line cuts from what I've seen (albeit on the internet). The history of the stone is something you pay a premium for, and that is not synonymous with improved light performance.
I, and others on this bird who have seen a CBI in person can tell you there is something special about them. I guess objectively, there is only so much perfection you can achieve. The CBI diamonds tend to surprise you even when you think you know how it will perform. So, given that this person wants the best of the best, I feel CBi offers it and for the additional premium you get lifetime buyback (not just a year) and upgrade with the option of custom cutting. For someone who values the "story" as well as owning something (a branded diamond in very limited supply with direct access to the craftsperaon) there is nothing else on the market that would compare to the total package.

Do you pay more for it? Sure. We pay more for many things that would be considered "luxury." But as much as I like Whiteflash,they don't invite me to their home for a barbecue and a telling of tales when I buy a stone from them. And Wink has some good stories to tell!
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
And of course this board is biased towards Cut, and yes it is the most important C, however in the past we were always told that
the second most important C is Color, now people choose what they want.

Just wanted to say though that there are 4 C's and it should be a balance of them against what you can afford.

Cut is only one of the 4 C's.

Other jewellers put Color as important whereas the buying public here seem to go for Carat weight. When I first read the
education on the internet and on a card at my local jeweller it said choose between the 3 C's of Cut, Color, Clarity and then
your budget would choose the Carat weight itself. However folk now seem to go, well on this board anyway, Cut, Carat Weight, Color, Clarity. ]

We are told we cannot see the color face up with a good cut, however the way diamonds were judged before was to look
clear from the side on your finger, however ring mounts now cover the sides as they did in the past too.

Remember Color is not graded face up, Color is graded with the diamond face Down.
 
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