GIA Dunks on Lab Diamonds

[Scon_ce]

If I may, I would suspect the people who have spent many thousands of dollars on a stunning mined diamond could not be pleased that, for all intents and purposes, anybody could procure the same diamond now. That must be very upsetting. Although as I stated earlier, I would never spend $30,000+ on a diamond, there were times that I thought, why not just go for it and spend the money? I can afford it, so why not? Had I pulled the trigger on that, I would be kicking myself black and blue today.

I don't know about that. Sure, my natural diamond engagement ring cost some thousands of dollars but I don't care one bit if others can procure the same, or better, or bigger for much less $ now in LG diamond. And I don't know ANYONE IRL who spends ANY amount of time thinking about any of this lol.
Personally, I look forward to collecting both natural and LG diamonds now and in the future. I like pretty things.

 

[Matata]

Stay away from the natural Antarctic variety please Chelsea. It is likely to have some penguin pee in it!

Is fancy intense yellow penguin-pee ice more valuable than light yellow?

 

[kenny]

I'm sorry @Texas Leaguer but ...
At a quick glance, I keep thinking your thread title is:

GIA Drunk on Lab Diamonds​

Not

GIA Dunks on Lab Diamonds​

So, call Larry Parker right away! ......... He'll get your 8-million dollars.

​

 

[Rockdiamond]

Diamonds changed the course of human history. Big time.
It wasn’t till General Electric synthesized diamonds in 1954 that their effects were felt.

Oil.

Diamond drill bits could bore through anything. But the bits degrade with use. The invention of man made diamonds enabled deeper, more reliable drilling. This enabled a boom in oil production needed to power the remarkable growth of the US economy in the 50’s.
Fast forward about 30 years when the second remarkable attribute of diamonds came into play.
High thermal conductivity make Diamonds among the world’s best heat sinks.
Computer processors hate heat.
You’re carrying around a man mad diamond if you’ve got a cell phone. A tiny sliver gets the job done.
Man made or mined, the job gets done.
My personal perspective is that man made diamonds also get the job done in jewelry.
But that’s based on our focus and clientele.
Who wants a loose diamond? No matter who made it.
Other than collectors who make up a valid, yet tiny piece of the overall market.
For couples getting married- my experience is that they want a piece of jewelry.
The Rolex example ….. if a person got a functional fake Rolex, they can tell time.
If it’s an 18kt gold but still fake, that’s going to hold value in gold.
Costco has been selling MD’s for years. Hasn’t hurt Tiffany’s.
Fine jewelry has intrinsic properties not affected by the source of the diamond.
The other important aspect for me is the financial one.
If one believes diamonds are a good way to store value, the origin is crucial.
I’ve never sold a diamond based on its ability to hold value.
I understand far to well the effort needed to convert diamonds into cash.

 

[freddyboston]

I just wonder how the low price of the LGD's will effect consumer perception... Is it still a luxury good if it's not expensive ? Are they really suitable for E rings + gift giving ? To me, cheap replica Chronometers and large LGD's scream "big hat no cattle"

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

The way to go depends on the person Karl.
I am pointing out the huge difference in products.
There is no need to grade lab or synthetic diamonds. They really should be branded like any other consumer good.
There is no rarity factor - which is the only reason we grade diamonds.
And most of the people on this board know no one can tell the difference between a 1ct F VS2 and a D Flawless diamond with their naked eye. The fact one cost well over double as much!
In this chart I just finished researching one can see that available with wholesalers all around the world there are 215 four carat diamonds. Given there are 10 Grade categories, that means there are about 21 of each individual color and clarity. For about 170 nations to fight over.
Diamonds are rare. Synthetics are not and with the current rate of technological improvement and plummeting wholesale prices we will see the ludicrous retail markups fall and studded belts in TJMax

The GIA is doing this because they are taking a financial hiding from the IGI.
But who cares?

Again, I don’t know a lot about diamonds, I do know what a grading report is. But what do you mean by “branded”? Can you help me understand what that is please? Thank you.

 

[distracts]

I am part of that “target market” I have to say that cut is still king, just as it is for earth mined diamonds. Granted, not every lab diamond purchaser does the research that I do , or even knows about PS, but that is true of most diamond buyers,regardless of where the stone was produced.

Yeah - for me, at this point, I am interested in lab diamonds if they are in one of two categories: a multi-diamond jewelry piece that I'd never spend that amount of money on for natural diamonds (e.g., tennis bracelet, riviera necklace, chonky hoop earrings), or amazing/specialty cuts that are either custom proportions or vetted by a jeweler I trust. I don't really see what the point of having abundant material with subpar cuts is.

A fake Rolex is not a Rolex. Diamonds, whether earth-extracted or created in a laboratory, are diamonds. There is no such thing as a “fake” diamond. Regardless of the source, a diamond is a diamond.

But is the source not what makes something real or fake? A Rolex made with identical parts, with identical engravings, that operates identically, that was made in a workshop in China by a random watch replica outfit is not a Rolex, even if it walks and talks and quacks like one. It is still a watch, but not a Rolex. There is a real (!!) story of Hermes bag artisans stealing leather and parts and making Hermes bags off the clock, which are counterfeit Hermes bags - but they were made using Hermes leathers and locks and feet by Hermes artisans, just not under the auspices of Hermes. "Where it is made" is already what determines whether or not a thing is "real" for much of the luxury market.

If I may, I would suspect the people who have spent many thousands of dollars on a stunning mined diamond could not be pleased that, for all intents and purposes, anybody could procure the same diamond now. That must be very upsetting. Although as I stated earlier, I would never spend $30,000+ on a diamond, there were times that I thought, why not just go for it and spend the money? I can afford it, so why not? Had I pulled the trigger on that, I would be kicking myself black and blue today.

I honestly don't think people will care. Just as a fake Rolex isn't a real Rolex, somebody who intended to buy a mined diamond is not going to be perturbed that somebody else bought a lab diamond. Somebody who bought a $2000 designer cashmere sweater is not perturbed that somebody else bought a $200 cashmere sweater from Quince. They are in different income brackets and are valuing different things about the sweaters. Same thing with diamonds. My most expensive mined diamond purchase came after lab diamonds became cheap and plentiful. But before that I had many sapphire purchases, and lab sapphires are plentiful and cheap, and people owning lab sapphires did not and does not in any way impinge on my enjoyment of or appreciation for natural sapphires, nor does it bother me that we spent different amounts of money on them.

I do also think this depends on how much disposable income you have... there are people who stretch to spend money they cannot really afford, and I can see how they might be bothered. But for a lot of people who are buying fine jewelry, they've got the excess money and if it isn't going to jewelry, it's going to designer bags or clothes or new kitchen countertops every 10 years or whatever.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

No, I’m not bothered that I spent what I did on my mined diamond. It’s not upsetting to me. I prefer

I don’t know that people are as petty as you assume they are. As an antique diamond lover, I’m excited to see the cuts become more accessible to a wider audience and I don’t mind that someone could replicate my antique toi et moi thanks to labs.

I want prices to go down to CZ levels so I can get a 5-carat antique emerald cut that I can’t afford in a genuine antique

Yeah - for me, at this point, I am interested in lab diamonds if they are in one of two categories: a multi-diamond jewelry piece that I'd never spend that amount of money on for natural diamonds (e.g., tennis bracelet, riviera necklace, chonky hoop earrings), or amazing/specialty cuts that are either custom proportions or vetted by a jeweler I trust. I don't really see what the point of having abundant material with subpar cuts is.



But is the source not what makes something real or fake? A Rolex made with identical parts, with identical engravings, that operates identically, that was made in a workshop in China by a random watch replica outfit is not a Rolex, even if it walks and talks and quacks like one. It is still a watch, but not a Rolex. There is a real (!!) story of Hermes bag artisans stealing leather and parts and making Hermes bags off the clock, which are counterfeit Hermes bags - but they were made using Hermes leathers and locks and feet by Hermes artisans, just not under the auspices of Hermes. "Where it is made" is already what determines whether or not a thing is "real" for much of the luxury market.



I honestly don't think people will care. Just as a fake Rolex isn't a real Rolex, somebody who intended to buy a mined diamond is not going to be perturbed that somebody else bought a lab diamond. Somebody who bought a $2000 designer cashmere sweater is not perturbed that somebody else bought a $200 cashmere sweater from Quince. They are in different income brackets and are valuing different things about the sweaters. Same thing with diamonds. My most expensive mined diamond purchase came after lab diamonds became cheap and plentiful. But before that I had many sapphire purchases, and lab sapphires are plentiful and cheap, and people owning lab sapphires did not and does not in any way impinge on my enjoyment of or appreciation for natural sapphires, nor does it bother me that we spent different amounts of money on them.

I do also think this depends on how much disposable income you have... there are people who stretch to spend money they cannot really afford, and I can see how they might be bothered. But for a lot of people who are buying fine jewelry, they've got the excess money and if it isn't going to jewelry, it's going to designer bags or clothes or new kitchen countertops every 10 years or whatever.

But the designer sweater compared to a non-designer sweater isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison. The Hermes comparison seems to be. If the folks that sit in the Hermes facility stitching bags then step outside and stitch the identical Hermes bags, that is an apples-to-apples comparison. Although for practical purposes the natural ice versus freezer ice, or the natural suntan versus UV-ray sunbed suntan might be clearer. Ice from nature and ice from your freezer is still ice. A natural suntan versus a UV-ray sunbed suntan is still a suntan. The end results are the same. The difference is in how the end result was achieved.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I made a post and deleted if anyone saw it and wondered where it went. The Ignore button seems a better use of time.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

But the designer sweater compared to a non-designer sweater isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison. The Hermes comparison seems to be. If the folks that sit in the Hermes facility stitching bags then step outside and stitch the identical Hermes bags, that is an apples-to-apples comparison. Although for practical purposes the natural ice versus freezer ice, or the natural suntan versus UV-ray sunbed suntan might be clearer. Ice from nature and ice from your freezer is still ice. A natural suntan versus a UV-ray sunbed suntan is still a suntan. The end results are the same. The difference is in how the end result was achieved.

“But is the source not what makes something real or fake?” In the case of the Rolex, yes, I suppose. The Rolex watch has to be created in a Rolex facility in order to be a Rolex. In the case of diamonds apparently not. Earth-mined or lab-created, diamonds are diamonds.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Chelsea Palmer said:
If I may, I would suspect the people who have spent many thousands of dollars on a stunning mined diamond could not be pleased that, for all intents and purposes, anybody could procure the same diamond now.

You are clearly wrong on this point. I have bought, owned, traded and sold several diamonds through the years. Buying lab diamonds with the same weight, color, clarity and specs would not mean procuring the same diamonds now - to me. You need to understand and accept that people have different points of view on this subject, and there is no amount of arguing that will change their minds - one way or another. You seem offended that everyone does not share your point of view but that is life. It would also be true of many other issues as I am sure you are well aware. Enjoy your choice and I will enjoy mine. We should be able to peacefully coexist in diamond land without trying to change each other’s feelings or opinions.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Chelsea Palmer said:
If I may, I would suspect the people who have spent many thousands of dollars on a stunning mined diamond could not be pleased that, for all intents and purposes, anybody could procure the same diamond now.

You are clearly wrong on this point. I have bought, owned, traded and sold several diamonds through the years. Buying lab diamonds with the same weight, color, clarity and specs would not mean procuring the same diamonds now - to me. You need to understand and accept that people have different points of view on this subject, and there is no amount of arguing that will change their minds - one way or another. You seem offended that everyone does not share your point of view but that is life. It would also be true of many other issues as I am sure you are well aware. Enjoy your choice and I will enjoy mine. We should be able to peacefully coexist in diamond land without trying to change each other’s

Chelsea Palmer said:
If I may, I would suspect the people who have spent many thousands of dollars on a stunning mined diamond could not be pleased that, for all intents and purposes, anybody could procure the same diamond now.

You are clearly wrong on this point. I have bought, owned, traded and sold several diamonds through the years. Buying lab diamonds with the same weight, color, clarity and specs would not mean procuring the same diamonds now - to me. You need to understand and accept that people have different points of view on this subject, and there is no amount of arguing that will change their minds - one way or another. You seem offended that everyone does not share your point of view but that is life. It would also be true of many other issues as I am sure you are well aware. Enjoy your choice and I will enjoy mine. We should be able to peacefully coexist in diamond land without trying to change each other’s feelings or opinions.

Well, that is a relief.

 

[elle_chris]

If I may, I would suspect the people who have spent many thousands of dollars on a stunning mined diamond could not be pleased that, for all intents and purposes, anybody could procure the same diamond now. That must be very upsetting. Although as I stated earlier, I would never spend $30,000+ on a diamond, there were times that I thought, why not just go for it and spend the money? I can afford it, so why not? Had I pulled the trigger on that, I would be kicking myself black and blue today.

This is exactly the kind of thing that gets posted over and over on Reddit.

I suspect it's to make you, and others like you feel better about buying synthetics instead of naturals.

If you were truly comfortable with your decision to get a lab, you wouldn't keep trying to make a point that most here don't care about.

And for the record, I own both. But I have no reason to debate my purchases with random people on the internet.

 

[Karl_K]

Back on topic please!
We all enjoy sparky rocks! that is what unites us here and while we may have our favorites we can enjoy any sparky rock!

 

[elle_chris]

Back on topic please!
We all enjoy sparky rocks! that is what unites us here and while we may have our favorites we can enjoy any sparky rock!

I agree but c'mon, that post was....

 

[DejaWiz]

I don't know about that. Sure, my natural diamond engagement ring cost some thousands of dollars but I don't care one bit if others can procure the same, or better, or bigger for much less $ now in LG diamond. And I don't know ANYONE IRL who spends ANY amount of time thinking about any of this lol.
Personally, I look forward to collecting both natural and LG diamonds now and in the future. I like pretty things.

I'm rowing the same boat - my wife and I have both natural earth grown and human grown diamonds, to which both have their place, meanings, and symbolisms in our lives and our marriage and each are equally important as the others.
...Because we are the only two that set the meaning and symbolism for each piece, and what we think towards them is all that matters:
Not family.
Not friends.
Not colleagues.
Not social constructs.
Yes, I'm saying this fully aware that not everyone or every culture has such freedom in regard to views on jewels and jewelry.

Accurate and highly detailed independent lab grading is equally important for human grown as it is for earth grown diamonds, to me.
I want the assurance of knowing exactly what my money is getting me.
GIA is supposed to exist and operate for exactly that reason, per their own mission statement.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

This is exactly the kind of thing that gets posted over and over on Reddit.

I suspect it's to make you, and others like you feel better about buying synthetics instead of naturals.

If you were truly comfortable with your decision to get a lab, you wouldn't keep trying to make a point that most here don't care about.

And for the record, I own both. But I have no reason to debate my purchases with random people on the internet

This is exactly the kind of thing that gets posted over and over on Reddit.

I suspect it's to make you, and others like you feel better about buying synthetics instead of naturals.

If you were truly comfortable with your decision to get a lab, you wouldn't keep trying to make a point that most here don't care about.

And for the record, I own both. But I have no reason to debate my purchases with random people on the internet.

Not at all. It’s good to know that people don’t feel that way.

 

[0-0-0]

GIA’s latest industry friendly moves give me less confidence that we’ll get more detailed cut/color/clarity grading in the future.

 

[DejaWiz]

GIA’s latest industry friendly moves give me less confidence that we’ll get more detailed cut/color/clarity grading in the future.

That's a valid concern...if they are willing to skimp on human grown diamond grading and then see how it goes, then they may be willing to start dialing back grading strictness for certain aspects with natural earth grown diamonds.
Unfortunately, there's no way to know what the grand plan for the future is from the GIA string-pullers.

 

[freddyboston]

Accurate and highly detailed independent lab grading is equally important for human grown as it is for earth grown diamonds, to me.
I want the assurance of knowing exactly what my money is getting me.
GIA is supposed to exist and operate for exactly that reason, per their own mission statement.

Problem is with the severe price drop of synthetics, GIA can no longer compete in the LGD space as an independent third party off site grader against In Factory IGI reports.....

IGI India has established “laboratory setups” inside the factories of high-volume diamond growers, often using the producers’ employees and equipment

IGI Brings Grading Services to Diamond Growers’ Factories: Filing - JCK

Some big Indian lab-grown diamond companies no longer need to send their stones to an International Gemological Institute (IGI) office for grading.

www.jckonline.com

 

[diverg]

Can any of the other lab grading companies fill the void the GIA is perceived to be leaving? Any particular one in better shape to step up?

 

[diverg]

Problem is with the severe price drop of synthetics, GIA can no longer compete in the LGD space as an independent third party off site grader against In Factory IGI reports.....

IGI India has established “laboratory setups” inside the factories of high-volume diamond growers, often using the producers’ employees and equipment

IGI Brings Grading Services to Diamond Growers’ Factories: Filing - JCK

Some big Indian lab-grown diamond companies no longer need to send their stones to an International Gemological Institute (IGI) office for grading.

www.jckonline.com

Seems like a big conflict of interest to me.

 

[freddyboston]

Seems like a big conflict of interest to me.

you think ?

while IGI conducts “quality checks and periodic calibration of our gemologists to reassess and adjust their grading techniques, such measures may not be effective in preventing all instances of grading errors or fraud by gemologists or third parties.”

IGI is a for profit business (Blackstone $$$)

GIA is non profit who's "mission is to ensure public trust in gems and jewelry by upholding standards of integrity, academics, science, and professionalism through education, research, and laboratory services..."

Grading Lab IGI Aims to Go Public on Dec. 20 - JCK

International Gemological Institute (IGI), the world's second-largest diamond grading lab, is going public and aims to begin trading on Indian stock exchanges

www.jckonline.com

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Stay away from the natural Antarctic variety please Chelsea. It is likely to have some penguin pee

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Stay away from the natural Antarctic variety please Chelsea. It is likely to have some penguin pee in it!

That was very clever, Garry H

 

[freddyboston]

it's technically a desert - very old ice...
might have some of the other "old" ice too....

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Is fancy intense yellow penguin-pee ice more valuable than light yellow?

Is fancy intense yellow penguin-pee ice more valuable

Is fancy intense yellow penguin-pee ice more valuable than light yellow?

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

Over in the CS forum, that's frequently not the case - though it's been a debate over the years of how much people are willing to spend on a setting for an inexpensive stone. For many people, the answer is "a lot" to get the overall look they want.

Yes, I have bought a setting where the jeweler did not invoice me for the center LGD stone.

Found on the Internet so it must be true:
"The six categories used to describe the quality of cubic zirconia are: AAAAA (the highest quality), AAAA, AAA, AA, A and AB (the lowest quality). The highest quality stones are hard and clear, while the lowest quality stones are cloudy and soft."

Wait… is there really CZ that will not go cloudy or is so soft that it scratches and loses its sparkle? Does it come in violet? Please?

^a gazillion likes.
Imagine for example a gathering where 3 women are sporting 4 carat E IF LGDs that cost (for exaggeration purposes) $39.95 and the 4th woman has an earth grown that cost $XX,XXX,XXX.

And then the wearer of this 1-carat mined haloed diamond has to advise everyone it’s a natural stone.

Yeah, that’s what I don’t get about the natural-diamond-bragging-rights argument. If three women are standing around mutually admiring their high-quality 4 carat diamonds, the one with the natural E-color diamond only has bragging rights if she brags. The one with the lab grown E-color diamond might not consider a natural diamond to be a flex. And the third woman might be sporting a light fancy colored diamond whose color no one can perceive but that costs a fortune.

And I don't know ANYONE IRL who spends ANY amount of time thinking about any of this lol.

This is why I love PS.

I just wonder how the low price of the LGD's will effect consumer perception... Is it still a luxury good if it's not expensive ? Are they really suitable for E rings + gift giving ? To me, cheap replica Chronometers and large LGD's scream "big hat no cattle"

IMHO name brand settings and bespoke and specialty diamond cuts may make up the difference at the average-engagement-ring-price-point or the average-anniversary-gift-price-point. Maybe not at some higher price point but the question is whether a fewer number of natural diamond sales at the higher price point can make up for the lack of business at the average price point.