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Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earrings?

Jeanne61

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Hello,

I'm in the market for a pair of diamond earrings and am looking for something around 5mm in diameter. I originally wanted to try FICs but Garry recommended looking at shallow spready diamonds instead as they would be better as earrings. So...I looked a bit more and found these 3. All are GIA I's SI1-SI2 in the 0.42-.44 CW range, 4.9+mm in size. All seemed to score EX/EX/EX/EX and under 2.0 on the HCA in the TIC range. The first and last ones are Excellent Cut/Polish/Symmetry. Middle one is Excellent Cut with VG Polish/Symmetry. Unfortunately the site does not offer any images so I can only go with the numbers.

shallow_diamonds_0.png

Sorry for the small fuzzy pics. Which one would you recommend? Too shallow? Appreciate if you can also let me know your reasons so I can get smarter :dance: . If these aren't good, I'm happy to go look some more. Thank you!
 

whitewave

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

Bumping for you. I'd like to hear more myself.
 

Jeanne61

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

Thanks for the bump. I'm chomping at the bit to spend my Xmas bonus as soon as I hear LOL!
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

Jeanne61|1480692492|4104323 said:
Hello,

I'm in the market for a pair of diamond earrings and am looking for something around 5mm in diameter. I originally wanted to try FICs but Garry recommended looking at shallow spready diamonds instead as they would be better as earrings. So...I looked a bit more and found these 3. All are GIA I's SI1-SI2 in the 0.42-.44 CW range, 4.9+mm in size. All seemed to score EX/EX/EX/EX and under 2.0 on the HCA in the TIC range. The first and last ones are Excellent Cut/Polish/Symmetry. Middle one is Excellent Cut with VG Polish/Symmetry. Unfortunately the site does not offer any images so I can only go with the numbers.

shallow_diamonds_0.png

Sorry for the small fuzzy pics. Which one would you recommend? Too shallow? Appreciate if you can also let me know your reasons so I can get smarter :dance: . If these aren't good, I'm happy to go look some more. Thank you!
I travel to the Vegas JCK jewellery show each year. About 8 years ago I changed one of my wifes earrings to a very shallow stone - the other is a Tolkowsky about 57% 34/40.8. There were many "diamond experts" with us dining out and around the show. Everyone preferred the shallow stone. Everyone, even people like the director of the AGS, Pete Yantzer. I made a post about it with all the details - someone may be able to find it?
None of those stones is 'shallow'.
 

whitewave

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

I'll look for the post... in the meantime, what parameters determines "shallow"?
 

Jeanne61

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

whitewave|1480897549|4104812 said:
I'll look for the post... in the meantime, what parameters determines "shallow"?
Yes - my question too - what proportions should I look for to find shallow diamonds good for earrings?

Thanks!
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

whitewave|1480897549|4104812 said:
I'll look for the post... in the meantime, what parameters determines "shallow"?
Say 40.5 pavilion with 34.5 crown down to say 40.5 with 33 degrees would work.
There is an inverse ratio of about 5:1 for crown to pavilion angles. So using Tolkowsky as a center point - if you drop -5 degree crown you can compensate by adding 1 degree to the pavilion angle.
So with 41 degree pavilion angle which is commonly around - I would look for say 31 to 32 degree crown angle. The spread will also be larger.
The 31 will probably be graded GIA VG for cut
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

whitewave|1480900194|4104822 said:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/simple-science-is-shallow-or-deep-better.44007/
Thanks WhiteWave :wavey:
There is a nother thread I think that led to me doing this one.
Sadly I never had the angles of the stones or a working scanner it seems. GIA had just started putting angles on grading reports at that time.
 

Jeanne61

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

whitewave|1480919199|4104877 said:
Thank you for the links Whitewave.

Garry, I really enjoyed both posts. In general, would we need to go into the BIC range to get the benefits of shallow stones? Would a shallower TIC provide the same benefits balanced with better fire and scintillation? While looking online, I found these 2 set's of diamonds -all are GIA Excellent Cut stones.

This first set shows as BIC but HCA rates Scintillation as only VERY GOOD (can BICs score EX on scintillation?)
bic_2.png
bic1.png

This second set shows as TIC with HCA Excellent across the board
tic_2.png
tic1.png

Assuming these diamonds have potential, would it be safer to consider these shallower TICs for more balance or go the distance with the BICs?

BTW - For one set, one diamond is 4.85 mm and the other is 4.93 mm ...would that size difference make for ill-matched earrings?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

Jeanne61|1480925586|4104884 said:
whitewave|1480919199|4104877 said:
Thank you for the links Whitewave.

Garry, I really enjoyed both posts. In general, would we need to go into the BIC range to get the benefits of shallow stones? Would a shallower TIC provide the same benefits balanced with better fire and scintillation? While looking online, I found these 2 set's of diamonds -all are GIA Excellent Cut stones.

This first set shows as BIC but HCA rates Scintillation as only VERY GOOD (can BICs score EX on scintillation?)
bic_2.png
bic1.png

This second set shows as TIC with HCA Excellent across the board
tic_2.png
tic1.png

Assuming these diamonds have potential, would it be safer to consider these shallower TICs for more balance or go the distance with the BICs?

BTW - For one set, one diamond is 4.85 mm and the other is 4.93 mm ...would that size difference make for ill-matched earrings?
I expect the first 2 will be larger spread. Go with the biggest least expensive. The BIC's will have less fire but you really rarely see fire in earrings - its all about the brightness
 

lambskin

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

What is FIC? I wish I went more shallow for a bigger spread for my studs but I worry about performance and possible reset for ring or pendant.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

lambskin|1480996386|4105064 said:
What is FIC? I wish I went more shallow for a bigger spread for my studs but I worry about performance and possible reset for ring or pendant.
http://www.diamond-cut.com.au/23_bicfic.htm is the explanation - and the website explains the concepts behind HCA.
Earrings and pendants work well in BIC. TIC or Tolkowsky or slightly steeper crowns work best in rings.
 

Jeanne61

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

Garry thanks for your time. I've just ordered the BICs that I've posted above - fingers crossed since these are coming to me sight unseen. :pray: Since I've also ordered a set of FICs before I started this post, I'll actually be able to do a side by side comparison of GIA EX/EX/EX BICs vs FICs. Very much looking forward to seeing both sets and will post some pics when I get them both...should be fun! :dance:

Thank goodness for great return policies!

Thank you all for your help!
 

whitewave

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

How did you find the BICs? I have only found TICs on blue nile and over 2 on HCA
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

Jeanne61|1481000503|4105088 said:
Garry thanks for your time. I've just ordered the BICs that I've posted above - fingers crossed since these are coming to me sight unseen. :pray: Since I've also ordered a set of FICs before I started this post, I'll actually be able to do a side by side comparison of GIA EX/EX/EX BICs vs FICs. Very much looking forward to seeing both sets and will post some pics when I get them both...should be fun! :dance:

Thank goodness for great return policies!

Thank you all for your help!
Great - have some tweezers or something to hold them up next to your ears and be sure to look in various lighting types. Look in the mirror yourself, but better still have somone else hold them near their ears and you do the looking :geek: :shifty: :love: :shock:
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

whitewave|1481045820|4105181 said:
How did you find the BICs? I have only found TICs on blue nile and over 2 on HCA
Search here on PS. Click the depth % so you get shallower stones - I think for 1ct sizes I would stay around 58-60% table whcih will help the edge brightness. Can be a little more - say 61% for half carat and under 58% for +2ct.
You can then visit each of those stones - better to expand your color clarity so you can find 2 stones with the same dealer - and ask them to pull the stones and look at them.
Most inhouse stones will be closer to Tolkowsky - so try virtuals too - but remember you will be asked to pay to call them in. Good luck - lets see if anyone gets any results.
Other members may have better search criteria also :)
 

lambskin

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

Gary, thanks for the link explaining the FIC, BIC and TIC. I remember my jeweler trying to explain brilliance and fire to me. He tried very hard and I thought I grasped it :wall: ...but I think my jeweler was not so sure :lol: . This was over 20 years ago. I get it now.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

lambskin|1481077941|4105301 said:
Gary, thanks for the link explaining the FIC, BIC and TIC. I remember my jeweler trying to explain brilliance and fire to me. He tried very hard and I thought I grasped it :wall: ...but I think my jeweler was not so sure :lol: . This was over 20 years ago. I get it now.
Glad that helped.
This will add a bit more :)
http://www.diamond-cut.com.au/03_inverse_relationship.htm
 

Jeanne61

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

Garry H (Cut Nut)|1481068723|4105284 said:
Jeanne61|1481000503|4105088 said:
Garry thanks for your time. I've just ordered the BICs that I've posted above - fingers crossed since these are coming to me sight unseen. :pray: Since I've also ordered a set of FICs before I started this post, I'll actually be able to do a side by side comparison of GIA EX/EX/EX BICs vs FICs. Very much looking forward to seeing both sets and will post some pics when I get them both...should be fun! :dance:

Thank goodness for great return policies!

Thank you all for your help!
Great - have some tweezers or something to hold them up next to your ears and be sure to look in various lighting types. Look in the mirror yourself, but better still have somone else hold them near their ears and you do the looking :geek: :shifty: :love: :shock:
Will do Garry! Both sets will be here next week, can't wait :love: DH has already issued the warning... one pair MUST GO BACK :snooty: :nono: , LOL!

Have to admit this earring search has been all-consuming for the last few weeks; now I can go back to a normal life...feed the kids, walk the dog...until I get the earrings...

Stay tuned! :wavey:
 

whitewave

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

Garry, I found a set of earrings that are a good match of qualities I want and score great on HCA: 1.4 and 1.2, but they both only have a very good on cut, very good symmetry and excellent on polish. (They are not spready)

I had assumed a 1.4 abd 1.2 would have more excellents-- are these earrings I should consider based only on HCA? Thanks.
 

whitewave

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Re: Garry et al pls:How are these SHALLOW SPREADYs for Earri

Nevermind. I've knocked that one out and will continue looking.
 
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