Frustration with Online Vendors

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 8/17/2009 6:58:08 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 8/17/2009 6:24:43 PM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 8/17/2009 4:56:16 PM

Author: Rockdiamond


But the larger issue ( to me) is this: What difference does it make if the appraiser loves the diamond, if you do not?

If we remove the aspect of making sure it''s the correct diamond- which is quite important- but can be done locally- adding a third party adds complications that may not be necessary.


Say you did some research, and found a seller you were comfortable with. You could ''vet'' the seller by asking questions here. If you chose a seller that had the diamond in hand, and could personally evaluate it, that might be just as good as a third party''s opinion to assist you in making the purchase.

David,


With respect to your comment highlighted in yellow above, I can''t see that it makes any more difference if the vendor loves the diamond, either. Neither party (appraiser or vendor) can state with certainty that the client will agree with his preferences, right?


With respect to the second sentence I highlighted, I don''t think most consumers would agree that the opinion of a vested party is as good as the opinion of a non-vested party. While both may be respected, they aren''t necessarily equivalent.


I don''t think the point for most people is to have an appraiser tell them what they should like or not like. I think in most instances what a consumer wants is peace of mind in knowing he paid a fair price for his diamond. For that purpose, an appraiser''s expertise is an invaluable resource.

Hi guys!
Allison, you make some great points.
NO question, the vested interest part is important. We can all relate to some sellers that offer no advice- or worse, advice like the ''trust me'' type of thing....where you want to do the opposite of what the pushy seller is suggesting.

However part of what makes some vendors special is precisely that they can demonstrate what they like- their preference.
Whiteflash certainly has a signature look- as do sites like GOG, Brian Gavin, and many others. This is a very good thing IMO.
That''s why many people trust different companies- and their opinions. Many consumers value that aspect enough to not need an appraiser to ''approve'' a purchase.


Also a great point about making sure the value is there.


Still, in a case like this- I think we all agree that the op might be better served developing a relationship with a vendor who will be more sensitive to his needs.

ccl- yes, we''d be happy to send an item to any PS approved appraiser.

Highlighted in yellow is one thing I don''t put much faith in appraisor''s to do properly which is price diamonds especially fancy''s. I think many PS vendors don''t agree on pricing on a competitor''s stones and I don''t expect a third party who isn''t looking at prices all day to be any more precise. My appraisor told me that he would value both of our cushion diamond at the same price as a well cut pear shape, but that had no significance to me whatsoever.

 

[denverappraiser]

Yikes. I’ve been in a bank vault looking at jewelry all day and I’ve missed the progress of this thread.

David,

There are several reasons that consumers what an independent evaluation prior to a final commitment to a ring and you are simply not correct to state that they must either believe 100% of what the jeweler tells them or they should take a hike. Errors happen, but more importantly, the job of the jeweler is to present things in an attractive way. There’s nothing wrong with this, I count it as part of romancing the stone and it’s part the value-added process that comes from a jeweler but it does come with a huge conflict of interest both in terms of how things are described and what information is presented at all. Information that may be derogatory to the sale is often somehow omitted (like durability concerns, light performance concerns, ‘eye visible’ questions, etc.). Even damage get’s overlooked. A second educated set of eyes working directly for the consumer is extremely useful, especially when the selling dealers has never even seen the stone at all. I can’t speak for all appraisers or all jewelers but my lab is far better equipped to analyze a stone than nearly every jeweler in the country. I have better training and, because I’m being paid directly for that service, I do a more thorough job of it, even than most jewelers who ARE both equipped and trained to do the work.

This problem is doubly true for overseas customers and deployed US military like the OP. Even if the selling jeweler is agreeable to accept a return, the logistics of shipping can take up all of the available time and then some and the cost of shipping/customs can often be a significant part of the budget (customs isn’t an issue here but it is for many overseas clients). Getting it right beforeit leaves the country saves an enormous amount of both time and money. Lastly, if the setter is going to be a 3rd party it’s incredibly helpful to have an appraiser inspect the piece both before and after the setting work or it’s nearly impossible to convincingly decide when and where problems have occurred. Heck, it even protects the JEWELER to have it pass through the hands of a capable appraiser first when dealing with customers who are far away.

If a customer buys the stone, rather than asks the dealer to ship it to the appraiser on approval before the customer pays (which several of the dealers WILL do but I agree this requires some vetting of the appraiser by the dealer for security reasons) then the customer should have the right to have it shipped to wherever they wish, to show it to whoever they choose and, if they decide to return it, return it for whatever reason they want within the proscribed time. The dealer should have no say in ANY of this.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[John P]

Date: 8/17/2009 8:04:50 PM
Author: denverappraiser

I’ve been in a bank vault looking at jewelry all day and I’ve missed the progress of this thread.

I hope you were the one holding the gun.

(ba da bing!)

Date: 8/17/2009 7:46:32 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Highlighted in yellow is one thing I don't put much faith in appraisor's to do properly which is price diamonds especially fancy's. I think many PS vendors don't agree on pricing on a competitor's stones and I don't expect a third party who isn't looking at prices all day to be any more precise. My appraisor told me that he would value both of our cushion diamond at the same price as a well cut pear shape, but that had no significance to me whatsoever.

Valuation is a bugaboo. I've heard the lack of in-touch or significance complaint many times. Just as with finding an elite seller one must really do their homework to find an appraiser who is in-touch and current.

As for valuation, with regard to common cuts, spin the wheel... Should that stone/jewelery be valued as it would be offered at a ski shop in Vail, a neighborhood jewelry store in St Louis or purchased from Blue Nile? In such cases I like Richard Sherwood's approach of researching and disclosing values in several different markets. That approach could also be adapted for unique pieces - but in such cases the value puzzle may reflect given pricing in a given market on a given day...which are variable...and it may not take buyer perception into account.

I asked a few appraisers I consider very in-touch to answer tough questions about valuation when doing the interviews for this article.

http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/58/1/%e2%80%9cAppraise-the-Appraiser%e2%80%9d---Help-for-Consumers.aspx

Part IV deals with Valuation, Regulation & Accreditation.

There's not any single rosetta stone to decipher these subjects but I thought those involved gave great information.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 8/15/2009 10:30:39 PM
Author: Wink

Thanks for the shout out man! It is nice to see you again.

No problem with the devulging, I am proud of my service and much happier with the way the current generation of servicemen and women are being treated than we Vietnam era vets were. We all appreciate what you guys are doing for us!

Wink

I didn''t realize you were a Vietnam vet, Wink.

Thank you, for that service to our country.

Seriously.

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI all.
Neil- it was never my intention to in any way lessen the value appraisers provide or imply it was an all or nothing situation.

I was merely pointing out to the the person who originally asked the question that in fact many people do develop relationships with sellers and feel comfortable having the item shipped directly to them- even a first purchase.
If a buyer was intent on buying from a drop shipper, the likelihood of having it shipped to a third party are surely greater.
However, since kaigun02 is here asking, he''s sure to find a company that would have, or get the diamond in hand, and make sure to thoroughly and competently assess the diamond for durability and light return.
It''s possible to take descriptive photos prior to shipping to show the buyer what is going into the box.
Not that a second set of eyes- independent eyes especially- doesn''t have value. It would be foolish to encourage people not to get things appraised, if that''s what they wish to do. In some cases- and this may be one, this really has more to do with logistics- ship direct- or to a third party.

We all know errors are possible- shipping presents certain risks. This also goes in favor of having the item shipped directly to the buyer, and having them walk it into someplace for a second opinion, if they want one.

Another important aspect is that it also means the consumer must shop carefully for both a seller, and an appraiser. Without question more so if it is drop shipped as opposed to if they walk it in.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 8/17/2009 6:58:08 PM
Author: Rockdiamond


Hi guys!
Allison, you make some great points.
NO question, the vested interest part is important. We can all relate to some sellers that offer no advice- or worse, advice like the 'trust me' type of thing....where you want to do the opposite of what the pushy seller is suggesting.

However part of what makes some vendors special is precisely that they can demonstrate what they like- their preference.
Whiteflash certainly has a signature look- as do sites like GOG, Brian Gavin, and many others. This is a very good thing IMO.
That's why many people trust different companies- and their opinions. Many consumers value that aspect enough to not need an appraiser to 'approve' a purchase.


Also a great point about making sure the value is there.


Still, in a case like this- I think we all agree that the op might be better served developing a relationship with a vendor who will be more sensitive to his needs.

ccl- yes, we'd be happy to send an item to any PS approved appraiser.

But David, as you so aptly pointed out previously, what another party (in your example, the appraiser) prefers may not be what the client prefers. I suggest that there is no more likelihood that client will share the vendor's preferences, either.

And frankly, I don't put a lot of stock in being swayed by your preference just because you explain it to me. (By way of example, my husband likes beets, and I can't tolerate them. He could explain to me all the reasons why he likes them, but doing so wouldn't suddenly make me like them.)

I'd also say that part of what makes some appraisers special is their ability to provide detailed information in a way that helps a customer be confident in his own opinion instead of being swayed by someone else's.

For what it's worth, I disagree that the desire to work with an independent appraiser is somehow indicative of a lack of confidence in one's vendor. When I'm wearing a consumer hat (purchasing products and services), I'm a show-me kinda gal, and I place a high importance on getting an educated second opinion. As a vendor, I see it as an opportunity to have someone else sing our praises and solidify the confidence in our offerings.

ETA: When I bought my house, I used a realtor. I didn't rely on the seller's realtor to influence my choices because his duty is to his client, not to me. My realtor provided invaluable information to me about surrounding neighborhoods, areas, amenities, and had an AMAZING grasp of what the market prices were for comparable homes. I didn't rely on her to tell me which home I should like or buy; I relied on her to give me information that influenced the prices so I could make a sound decision. Never once did she tell me why she loves houses with pools.....because she knew I wasn't looking for one and didn't want one. If she had gone on to tell me why she likes them, I doubt it would have swayed me to change my mind about having one. I didn't want the maintenance or the potential liability.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 8/17/2009 7:46:32 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Highlighted in yellow is one thing I don''t put much faith in appraisor''s to do properly which is price diamonds especially fancy''s. I think many PS vendors don''t agree on pricing on a competitor''s stones and I don''t expect a third party who isn''t looking at prices all day to be any more precise.

To put this in perspective, a busy appraiser IS looking at prices all day long.

Not only is he constantly referring to and collecting all kinds of published data, he also has the opportunity to view many different diamonds from many different vendors.

An appraiser is a price "bloodhound". It is his job to view the entire market. He does this by keeping his fingers in every aspect of the market. The typical (busy) appraiser will have dealers and privates constantly bringing him diamonds. He gets a pretty good overview of the market in this manner.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 8/17/2009 9:47:30 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI all.
Neil- it was never my intention to in any way lessen the value appraisers provide or imply it was an all or nothing situation.

I was merely pointing out to the the person who originally asked the question that in fact many people do develop relationships with sellers and feel comfortable having the item shipped directly to them- even a first purchase.

I could be wrong here, but I''m guessing that if the original poster was comfortable with that (having it shipped directly), he probably wouldn''t have taken the time to post about his frustrations. From that, I infer that it must be important to him to take that step for his own assurance.

Doing so doesn''t make a statement about how much of a relationship he has (or hasn''t) developed with the vendor; it just means he knows it will bring him comfort and he wants it.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi everyone- again- not to ever try and dissuade someone from getting a second opinion.
But when kaigun02 posted, he mentioned he was pretty much clueless about diamonds. I'm sure he's better informed even having spent a few weeks here.
That would include aspects of diamonds- and the way they are represented online.
Now that he's here, I was merely pointing out that many vendors that sponsor this form have proven track records, and effective methods of conveying the way the item looks..
Learning this might allow someone to feel comfortable having an item shipped directly, then having it appraised locally.
A lot of people do exactly that.


ETA- another logistical reason it makes sense to have the item shipped directly, then appraised locally:
Say the diamond or ring arrives, and the consumer is not happy with it. They know they want a refund, or exchange, and just saved themselves some time, bother and expense.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 8/15/2009 2:46:08 PM
Author:kaigun02
Hi Everyone,


I thought this would be much easier... I''m hoping to propose in less than a month. After lurking for months on PS doing lots of reading and posting a few questions here and there, I was ready to make my choice. I thought I had the right diamond picked out at BN. However, realizing that I still know next to nothing about diamonds, I wanted an independent verification of the diamond before it was set. I did the research, picked out an appraiser, and asked BN if they could ship the diamond to him first, then set it after I was satisfied with the appraisal.



I was told that it was against company policy to ship directly to an appraiser. I''d have to purchase the stone, get it appraised, then return it to BN to be set. Well, here''s the problem: I''m in the US Navy and stationed in Japan. It takes about 10 days on average for mail from the States to reach me. Also, last time I checked, there are no ''PS recommended'' appraisers in the Far East. If you add up the shipping time for a diamond to get to me, get back to the States to be appraised, get back to me, get back to BN to be set, then back to me... now I''m proposing around Christmas if I''m lucky. That''s not an option. So it seems I have my back up against the wall and am stuck with either blindly trusting BN and the GIA or starting from scratch with a vendor who doesn''t have such rigid policies against second opinions.


Realistically, I''m sure the diamond would be just fine and I''d be happy with it even if it weren''t exactly as advertised. But I''m just a little perturbed that the ''company policy'' can''t be stretched slightly to help someone in my unique circumstance. What would you folks do? Buy the BN diamond? Start over with a company that would be willing to have my diamond appraised first? Something else I haven''t thought of?


Starting over is a bit of a monumental task for me since I''m on a ship at the moment with little time to spare and an internet connection that takes forever and a day to load one page. If anyone voted ''start over'' and wants to help, I''m looking for an F or better IF in the 0.9-ct range and my budget is $8000 max including the setting (simple platinum 6-prong similar to the BN ''classic''). Anyone have a good recommendation?


Thanks!


-J

David,

I’ve quoted above the original post. To summarize it:

He already chose his preferred dealer.
He already selected a diamond.
He already decided that he wanted a 3rd party appraiser to be involved (with good reason in my opinion) and, for lack of a qualified appraiser on board the ship, a suitable local expert isn’t available.
The problem he’s having is getting his wishes through to the sales staff at Blue Nile. What they''re telling him is exactly what you''re suggesting ... "Trust us, we''re experts". Perhaps they are, but to paraphrase Ronald Reagan, trust but verify.

Nowhere does he claim to be clueless about diamonds and has, in fact, chosen a prudent and entirely reasonable approach to what most shoppers count as a difficult and expensive problem. In my opinion our service men and women would be MUCH better served if more of them did exactly what kaigun02 is trying to do than the more common approach of walking into some ''diamond district'' in an unknown port that claims great bargains and listening to the sales presentation there.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Rockdiamond]

Neil, now it sounds as though you are making it black or white.
it's not a difference between walking into a back alley store making a deal- and BN.
It's a choice between BN, and other well known legitimate sellers that might prove to be a better fit- after all, he is frustrated.
I'm not looking to sell anyone anything here.
From the sound of what kaigun02 is looking for, there are many good vendors here that might provide far better service- even if it means shipping to the appraiser first.
We all agree that people serving one's country deserve special treatment when they are looking for something like this. My advice was given in that spirit.

ETA- "clueless" was a poor choice of words. Frustrated would have been better

 

[VRBeauty]

YOOHOO!

Hey guys!

Kaigun02 came here with a fairly simple question: How can he buy a diamond within specific parameters. on-line, and get it appraised by an independent appraiser, in a very short time.

A very simple question.

He noted that his internet access is severely limited.

Is this argument really helping answer his question? More importantly, is it helping him find the diamond he wants so he can propose to his girl, within his time constraint?

Would it be so hard to take this -- er-- discussion to another thread?

 

[Allison D.]

I think several people have made suggestions to help his situation.

Neil has provided him with information (that BN does ship loose stones to appraisers if you talk to the right person) that he can use to go back to his desired vendor to get a more favorable and expedient result. I think he's even suggested who to potentially ask for if Kaigan doesn't have immediate success with the front lines.

A few others have suggested considering other vendors, which is another possibility particularly if they might have access to the same stone he's already settled on.

Given that none of us as vendors are allowed to suggest alternate stones, we have to leave that part to others.

Maybe you could even offer a suggestion to help him, too?

 

[VRBeauty]

Alison -- I''d be the first to admit that I have no expertise to offer the original poster. I realize that he was given good advice at the outset, and I hope he''s followed that. However, he''s clearly someone who wants to do his homework before taking an important step like this. I''m not sure it''s doing him a service, assuming he''s still around, to throw into the mix an esoteric discussion, largely among the professionals, about the value of getting a 3rd party appraisal.

All I''m suggesting is that I think the discussion is probably no longer helpful to Kaigun02, and that it might be appropriate to address this new question in a separate thread.

 

[kaigun02]

Hi Folks,

Wow, I had no idea I''d stir up such a lively thread. I''m rather proud of myself.

Wink,

Thank YOU for your service. Your generation worked just as hard, if not harder, than mine and got none of the credit, while I get to hear "thank you" and enjoy military discounts all day long.

I do, however, have to remind you that Marine is an acronym for My A** Rides In Navy Equipment.


David,

No worries on calling me clueless. That might be an accurate label in general, not just regarding diamonds!

One note, though. In my particular case, being stationed in Japan makes a local appraisal pretty difficult. I''m getting better at reading Kanji, but I don''t even know the character for diamond, come to think of it! If my ship were heading back stateside, a local appraisal post-purchase might be an option.

Also, I found your quote "Without question Neil knows exactly how to receive, safeguard, and deliver a diamond" absolutely hilarious because I was intending on having Neil verify the BN diamond. Apparently, BN disagrees with you and also thinks Neil is a liar about having received directly from them before. The last word I got from them was "I do apologize, but we are simply unable to ship to an appraiser, nor am I aware of Blue Nile ever having done so in the past." Bottom line, poor customer service (and perhaps an uninformed SA) cost them the sale.


VRBeauty,

Thanks for drawing everyone''s attention to that part of my question. Fortunately, I''ve moved on to another vendor and seem to be in better hands, so no need to have the "PS Army" hunt me down a stone just yet.


For everyone, an update:

As I mentioned in some of the notes above, I''ve given up on Blue Nile and their cookie-cutter approach to diamond sales. While that may work for some, it''s not for me. As ChunkyCushionLover and some others suggested, I contacted WhiteFlash. The difference in customer service is amazing! Look for IS and ASET images from me in the days to come.

-J

 

[stone-cold11]

Thanks for your service.

Will look at your ASET/IS image when you post it.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/18/2009 3:01:24 AM
Author: kaigun02



Wink,

Thank YOU for your service. Your generation worked just as hard, if not harder, than mine and got none of the credit, while I get to hear ''thank you'' and enjoy military discounts all day long.

I do, however, have to remind you that Marine is an acronym for My A** Rides In Navy Equipment.

Why, I outta....


(Said in best John Wayne imitation voice. Oh wait, that would be so much more effective if you weren''t such a young pup that you have no idea who John Wayne is or what he sounds like... Sigh)

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/18/2009 3:01:24 AM
Author: kaigun02
Hi Folks,

Wow, I had no idea I''d stir up such a lively thread. I''m rather proud of myself.

For everyone, an update:

As I mentioned in some of the notes above, I''ve given up on Blue Nile and their cookie-cutter approach to diamond sales. While that may work for some, it''s not for me. As ChunkyCushionLover and some others suggested, I contacted WhiteFlash. The difference in customer service is amazing! Look for IS and ASET images from me in the days to come.

-J

LOL This cracked me up!

I''m so glad to hear you are now with someone who''s willing to give you the service you deserve! Good deal.

And thank you to ALL the servicemen in this thread, past and present! *salutes*



Wink, sadly, I know exactly who JW is, and that wasn''t bad.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 8/17/2009 9:59:50 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 8/17/2009 7:46:32 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Highlighted in yellow is one thing I don''t put much faith in appraisor''s to do properly which is price diamonds especially fancy''s. I think many PS vendors don''t agree on pricing on a competitor''s stones and I don''t expect a third party who isn''t looking at prices all day to be any more precise.

To put this in perspective, a busy appraiser IS looking at prices all day long.

Not only is he constantly referring to and collecting all kinds of published data, he also has the opportunity to view many different diamonds from many different vendors.

An appraiser is a price ''bloodhound''. It is his job to view the entire market. He does this by keeping his fingers in every aspect of the market. The typical (busy) appraiser will have dealers and privates constantly bringing him diamonds. He gets a pretty good overview of the market in this manner.

Too bad you don''t work in Burlington VT or Plattsburgh NY, my appraisor(chosen from PS search) was just okay and really weak on the valuation part.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Thanks kaigun02! I was rerally afraid to get on the bad side of the US military!!

For sure Neil will do a great job.

A question for the appraisers- is it possible for Neil, or Rich- or another appraiser to refer you to someone in Japan, near where you are stationed, that speaks English?

I know stateside referrals are possible- but I have no idea if it''s possible internationally.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Date: 8/17/2009 9:59:50 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 8/17/2009 7:46:32 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Highlighted in yellow is one thing I don''t put much faith in appraisor''s to do properly which is price diamonds especially fancy''s. I think many PS vendors don''t agree on pricing on a competitor''s stones and I don''t expect a third party who isn''t looking at prices all day to be any more precise.

An appraiser is a price ''bloodhound''. It is his job to view the entire market. He does this by keeping his fingers in every aspect of the market. The typical (busy) appraiser will have dealers and privates constantly bringing him diamonds. He gets a pretty good overview of the market in this manner.

I totally agree, Rich. I''m also obsessed with diamond pricing "in real time" and comparing "apples to apples". That is why it''s invaluable for me to subscribe to
4 diamond trading floors/networks. I can understand comparables much better and can compare two diamonds line by line and what they are trading for in real time. What professional appraiser would only use one price sheet or one source for pricing? A true professional appraiser is also on this forum monitoring internet prices and listening to what is said by consumers and vendors.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[kaigun02]

Thanks again, everyone, for the great discussion.

For those who''ve been following this and were wondering how things have played out, I''m right now looking at some ASET/IS shots from Whiteflash and they look pretty good to me. As I''m clearly no expert, any help would be appreciated in this thread.

For anyone who was curious, at least one of the PS-friendly vendors I contacted was able to pull down the exact same diamond listed on Blue Nile. In the end, Whiteflash presented me with two diamonds that met my narrow criteria. Once I told them which diamond I preferred, they had it in the office within 24 hours.

Just as a point of comparison, though, the diamond actually was less expensive through BN than through the PS vendor who had access to it, but only by a couple hundred dollars. Not enough, IMHO, to make up for the customer service.

Interestingly enough, I received an e-mail from a different SA at BN yesterday, stating that they were sorry for the misinformation and would be able to ship to an appraiser. By the time BN had their story straight, WF had already ordered the diamond.

Lessons learned:

1. Blue Nile will ship to an appraiser after you ask 4 times.

2. Diamonds listed on BN are available for purchase elsewhere if you ask the right people.

3. Customer service at Whiteflash is top-notch!

-J

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 8/19/2009 8:22:37 PM
Author: kaigun02
Thanks again, everyone, for the great discussion.

For those who''ve been following this and were wondering how things have played out, I''m right now looking at some ASET/IS shots from Whiteflash and they look pretty good to me. As I''m clearly no expert, any help would be appreciated in this thread.

For anyone who was curious, at least one of the PS-friendly vendors I contacted was able to pull down the exact same diamond listed on Blue Nile. In the end, Whiteflash presented me with two diamonds that met my narrow criteria. Once I told them which diamond I preferred, they had it in the office within 24 hours.

Just as a point of comparison, though, the diamond actually was less expensive through BN than through the PS vendor who had access to it, but only by a couple hundred dollars. Not enough, IMHO, to make up for the customer service.

Interestingly enough, I received an e-mail from a different SA at BN yesterday, stating that they were sorry for the misinformation and would be able to ship to an appraiser. By the time BN had their story straight, WF had already ordered the diamond.

Lessons learned:

1. Blue Nile will ship to an appraiser after you ask 4 times.

2. Diamonds listed on BN are available for purchase elsewhere if you ask the right people.

3. Customer service at Whiteflash is top-notch!

-J

Inform WF of the BN price they might at least match it. Also make sure you got the PS discount and/or wire discount.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/18/2009 9:56:17 PM
Author: Modified Brilliant

Date: 8/17/2009 9:59:50 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 8/17/2009 7:46:32 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Highlighted in yellow is one thing I don''t put much faith in appraisor''s to do properly which is price diamonds especially fancy''s. I think many PS vendors don''t agree on pricing on a competitor''s stones and I don''t expect a third party who isn''t looking at prices all day to be any more precise.

An appraiser is a price ''bloodhound''. It is his job to view the entire market. He does this by keeping his fingers in every aspect of the market. The typical (busy) appraiser will have dealers and privates constantly bringing him diamonds. He gets a pretty good overview of the market in this manner.

I totally agree, Rich. I''m also obsessed with diamond pricing ''in real time'' and comparing ''apples to apples''. That is why it''s invaluable for me to subscribe to
4 diamond trading floors/networks. I can understand comparables much better and can compare two diamonds line by line and what they are trading for in real time. What professional appraiser would only use one price sheet or one source for pricing? A true professional appraiser is also on this forum monitoring internet prices and listening to what is said by consumers and vendors.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

One thingthat is hard for the appraiser to know is exactly what went into making a piece of jewelry. Once a complex piece is made it is MUCH less expensive to make it the second time as all the hard work has been done. Sometimes when I quote a custom piece I know it costs more to make than it would ever appraise for by most appraisers who might not know at all what it took to make that first piece.

A good appraiser, like some of those in this thread, will be asking the questions that lead to correct answers, but some just look at it, weigh it, add a perceived labor factor and end up appraising things for less than it cost to make them, let alone what was paid for them. This usually alienates the jeweler who did the work as well as angering the client at both the appraiser and the jeweler.

I have had the courtesy of a phone call by some appraisers who actually ask what went into making the piece so that they could give more accurate answers. That to me is a mark of a true professional seeking answers instead of "guestimates".

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/19/2009 8:22:37 PM
Author: kaigun02
Thanks again, everyone, for the great discussion.

For those who''ve been following this and were wondering how things have played out, I''m right now looking at some ASET/IS shots from Whiteflash and they look pretty good to me. As I''m clearly no expert, any help would be appreciated in this thread.

For anyone who was curious, at least one of the PS-friendly vendors I contacted was able to pull down the exact same diamond listed on Blue Nile. In the end, Whiteflash presented me with two diamonds that met my narrow criteria. Once I told them which diamond I preferred, they had it in the office within 24 hours.

Just as a point of comparison, though, the diamond actually was less expensive through BN than through the PS vendor who had access to it, but only by a couple hundred dollars. Not enough, IMHO, to make up for the customer service.

Interestingly enough, I received an e-mail from a different SA at BN yesterday, stating that they were sorry for the misinformation and would be able to ship to an appraiser. By the time BN had their story straight, WF had already ordered the diamond.

Lessons learned:

1. Blue Nile will ship to an appraiser after you ask 4 times.

2. Diamonds listed on BN are available for purchase elsewhere if you ask the right people.

3. Customer service at Whiteflash is top-notch!

-J

Now there is a comment by a consumer to make the hearts of any service oriented vendor happy. Thank you to Kaigun for recognising the value of that service. As my Brasilian friends would say, Palmas for WhiteFlash!

Wink

(Palmas, loosely translates into clapping. It carries the sentiment of "Job well done!")

 

[debi wexler]

Hey Wink - Thanks for the Brazilian Palamas!

Hi Kaigun02 - You made my day and I am sure everyone else''s here at the Houston office! Thank you for the kind words about Whiteflash.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 8/20/2009 10:39:51 AM
Author: Wink

One thingthat is hard for the appraiser to know is exactly what went into making a piece of jewelry. Once a complex piece is made it is MUCH less expensive to make it the second time as all the hard work has been done. Sometimes when I quote a custom piece I know it costs more to make than it would ever appraise for by most appraisers who might not know at all what it took to make that first piece.

A good appraiser, like some of those in this thread, will be asking the questions that lead to correct answers, but some just look at it, weigh it, add a perceived labor factor and end up appraising things for less than it cost to make them, let alone what was paid for them. This usually alienates the jeweler who did the work as well as angering the client at both the appraiser and the jeweler.

I have had the courtesy of a phone call by some appraisers who actually ask what went into making the piece so that they could give more accurate answers. That to me is a mark of a true professional seeking answers instead of 'guestimates'.

Wink

As one of those appraisers who has called you to ask what went into creating a piece, I know exactly what you're talking about Wink.

In the same breath though, there are a multitude of craftsmen who are legends in their own minds, and charge far more for their creations than they are actually worth. They will charge consumers for their mistakes and learning processes, while this should be a cost that they absorb.

It's one of the tasks of an appraiser to seperate these wannabes from the true accomplished designers and craftsmen, letting a client know when they are paying for quality accomplished work versus inept work involving repeated mistakes or a learning curve.

 

[WinkHPD]

LOL! Too true, tooo true.

Well said, it is knowing which is which that earns you guys the big bucks.

Wink

 

[kaigun02]

Thanks everyone for all the support and advice. The ring shipped today from Whiteflash to Neil and will hopefully be appraised and on its way to me soon. I can''t wait to see it in person. More importantly, I can''t wait until she sees it! In the meantime, let''s all enjoy the photos!

-J

 

[kaigun02]

And one more photo. Thanks again, everyone!