shape
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Found the stone and setting I want! 1.81 F, VS2, Round.

bd6845

Rough_Rock
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Dec 30, 2015
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Hi all! I found a great stone and setting, can you please provide some feedback? My main concern is it's not GIA, it's EGL.

The main inclusion is a small "scuff" on the edge that the Shaftel employee said will be hidden by a prong. I believe her on that, and was happy with the rest of the "eye-cleanliness." I really like the color, and she did say that it's probably a GIA SI1 rather than the VS2 listed but the clarity seemed fine to me.

Is there anything regarding the cut that I might miss by going with a EGL diamond over GIA? It's rated at Ideal and they did a light report in house which listed the fire, brilliance and scintillation all at "excellent" but I am not sure if this is a set standard or if their machine just makes every diamond look good.

In general, can a EGL ideal look as good as a Whiteflash ACA? The table is 57% and crown angle is 35 and depth is 61.2%.

The price is $16900
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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bd6845

Rough_Rock
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Attached is the report for the diamond. Ugh, I'm worried now....the thing is I am pushing my proposal up by a few weeks. This stone would be set and ready for me by friday in a great setting, and that would be perfect for my sunday proposal. The stone is $16,900 by itself, and the setting is $2150 for an in-house style.
 

Attachments

  • br_1.pdf
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bd6845

Rough_Rock
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Dec 30, 2015
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I got a score of 0.9 on the HCA tool, which I had never used before. Everything on there seems to check out!

I'm trying to figure out why the price is lower on this stone than equivalent WF ACA stones, and I asked the Shaftel employees and they just replied that the ACA branding includes a markup for a guarantee that your stone falls within specific specs, but any stone from any vendor could still be within those same specs.

I am 100% sold on the stone minus the fact that it wasn't GIA. I know a little bit about diamonds from my couple weeks of research but there are definitely gaps in my knowledge, and I wasn't sold on not having GIA do the report. Am I missing something here? She said the color is definitely a F and the major inclusion makes it a GIA SI1 but again it can be hidden by a prong, which I am okay with. So that leaves me to evaluate the cut and light performance...the HCA tool came out very positive and their in-house light machine showed excellent on performance.

Why is this stone $16.9k?

Thanks again for the help, everyone! :D
 

bd6845

Rough_Rock
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Dec 30, 2015
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Hm just realized I didn't get all the spread I could have out of this stone, it's a very good and not excellent spread. How much of a difference in diameter would a smaller table angle make? Mine is 35...
 

rainydaze

Ideal_Rock
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EGL tends to grade soft on color. An EGL F might be a GIA H or I even. Beyond what I've read here about that, I have seen it with my own eyes (and diamond).

I'm concerned about this 'scuff on the edge'. It sounds like it's on the surface? If so, sure you could hide it with a prong but is that sound? One knock on the prong and the 'scuff' turns into a crack or shatters.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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EGL colour and clarity grading is much softer than GIA, so the comparison will not be equal.

HCA is an elimination too, not a selection tool. If you want to make a cut quality comparison, you will need an ASET image, and Hearts and Arrow images and compare all of them. ACA has perfect H&A (no broken clefts or misaligned arrows under high magnification) and their ASET is impeccable. What does the EGL stone's images look like? Unless you have them, then you don't know how well cut it is and whether it is priced fairly or is too high.
 

bd6845

Rough_Rock
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Dec 30, 2015
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She compared it herself to a GIA F and agreed with it. She offered to send it for appraisal and I accepted, so someone else is looking at it now. That should provide an additional color specification. I was looking at GIA G+ stones so hopefully the EGL F stands.

The scuff wasn't an actual deformity on the surface of the crown, it's a crystal as shown in the report I attached, but it looks like a cloudy inclusion to me. Shouldn't have used the word scuff I guess. Can internal inclusions manifest in physical issues (cracking) after years of wear? I hadn't researched that...
 

chrono

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diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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No, no, no! EGL grading is NOT reliable!!! The diamond has little chance of being GIA F color! Is it EGL USA or International? Nevermind, I see it is EGL Canada. Don't know about that one specifically.

Go with GIA and then you will know what you are getting. You have a greater chance of overpaying with an EGL stone.

(Very good is normal for spread on excellent cut diamonds. We like to see excellent on the first three characteristics, though.)
 

bd6845

Rough_Rock
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It's EGL USA...does that make a difference? For what it's worth, I liked the diamond in person. I just appreciate feedback
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Without accurate grading, nobody can tell you whether the price is fair or too high. As it stands, if you can see the inclusion with the naked eye, then you already know that the clarity grading is not accurate. Given that, the colour clarity is also highly likely to not be accurate. So what is the correct grading then? Without knowing that, the price could be anything.

Without pictures, nobody can tell you whether the stone is well cut or not. As mentioned, HCA is an elimination tool, not a selection tool.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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The first thing we can know for sure is that the stone is not equal to a Whiteflash ACA. Why? Because stones of that cut caliber would always be sent to GIA or AGS, the two respected labs.

We can be fairly certain it isn't G VS2, because you can see that GIA Ex cut aroound 1.8 cts ranges from $17,900-20,900.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/?CaratFrom=1.80&CaratTo=1.82&Color=G&Clarity=VS2&Cut=Ideal,Excellent,TrueHearts&PriceFrom=&PriceTo=&ViewsOptions=Images

Your prices does fall into the G SI1 range, but the stone isn't proven to be G SI1 unless it is sent to GIA. It could be lower.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/?CaratFrom=1.80&CaratTo=1.82&Color=G&Clarity=SI1&Cut=Ideal,Excellent,TrueHearts&PriceFrom=&PriceTo=&ViewsOptions=Images
 

bd6845

Rough_Rock
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Dec 30, 2015
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Here is the light performance they did today. Is this meaningful?

_876.png

_877.png
 

bd6845

Rough_Rock
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Dec 30, 2015
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Not sure what to do here. I feel rushed because I need the ring by friday, and whiteflash and this local place have both accommodated that timeline, but I have to tell them today.

Would you choose a WF ACA over this other cheaper stone? The ACA diamond was about $1500 more but still technically within my budget. I like the setting from the local place better but the Ritani setting at Whiteflash was nice.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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bd6845|1451934801|3970518 said:
Attached is the report for the diamond. Ugh, I'm worried now....the thing is I am pushing my proposal up by a few weeks. This stone would be set and ready for me by friday in a great setting, and that would be perfect for my sunday proposal. The stone is $16,900 by itself, and the setting is $2150 for an in-house style.

The numbers on it are pretty decent. The only other thing is that you are probably not getting a true F/VS2 but if you can live with
the color/clarity then it's not all bad. It's hearts are way off from an H&A but you don't have to have H&A to have a nice diamond.

Good luck with your proposal!!!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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bd6845|1451939482|3970591 said:
Not sure what to do here. I feel rushed because I need the ring by friday, and whiteflash and this local place have both accommodated that timeline, but I have to tell them today.

Would you choose a WF ACA over this other cheaper stone? The ACA diamond was about $1500 more but still technically within my budget. I like the setting from the local place better but the Ritani setting at Whiteflash was nice.


I would rather have an ACA. Can you have the ACA put in the local setting? Not sure if you still want to deal with the local jeweler
if you back out of their stone. Which Ritani setting is it?
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
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bd6845|1451939482|3970591 said:
Not sure what to do here. I feel rushed because I need the ring by friday, and whiteflash and this local place have both accommodated that timeline, but I have to tell them today.

Would you choose a WF ACA over this other cheaper stone? The ACA diamond was about $1500 more but still technically within my budget. I like the setting from the local place better but the Ritani setting at Whiteflash was nice.

In this case, definitely.
 

chrono

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bd6845

Rough_Rock
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Dec 30, 2015
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I have two options, both can be ready in time.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3075971.htm#

This diamond appeared a little hazy to me under lighting in the Whiteflash showroom. It's got quite a few inclusions and clouds "not listed" on the report, which I think might be causing the haziness.

I will be meeting tomorrow with an appraiser to discuss the local diamond that is EGL-CANADA graded to get her opinion on color to see if it matches up to at least GIA G. Are appraisers accurate on color?



Whiteflash pros:
ACA/GIA
30 Day Money Back Guarantee
GIA G color

cons:
price
liked the local setting slightly better
haziness


Shaftel pros:
Setting
Price
more eye clean
EGL F color

cons:
EGL Canada certification
no refund, but money back guarantee to replace with another ring at Shaftel

Honestly I think I'm going to go with the local diamond, I feel better about it for some reason. I think the amount of inclusions on the WF diamond is the nail in the coffin. If I need to return it I can always get a GIA stone from them but I think the fiance will love it.
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
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The WF stone is already sold.
 

bd6845

Rough_Rock
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Dec 30, 2015
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I had it on hold so it was "sold" to me.
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
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bd6845|1451945681|3970645 said:
I had it on hold so it was "sold" to me.

I'd be surprised if it was actually hazy, being an ACA. But go with what you prefer.
 

bd6845

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Messages
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Everyone, thank you for helping me out. I think in the end I'm okay with a little bit of variance in the grade of the local stone in order to have the better setting. I think with the halo around it and the already at least somewhat "idea" cut it will sparkle plenty. I know I broke a rule in not going GIA but there's just something about the stone I saw today that I loved, and I have to follow that instinct. It just feels right and that's what my proposal will be all about. I will keep y'all updated in SMTB when all is said and done! Time to nail the proposal!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Post pictures when you get it!

Congratulations on your upcoming engagment!
 
Q

Queenie60

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Looking forward to seeing the finished product! Congratulations on your upcoming engagement. :wavey:
 
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