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Flawless Round - Insurance & Setting

1

1955FL

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 2, 2024
Messages
30
I purchased an FL diamond a year ago and put it on a temporary setting to propose. My fiancé has enjoyed the ring so much that she really didn't care to get a new setting. Since it was a temporary setting on 14k, I wanted to make sure the diamond was safe and secure. We finally picked a platinum setting from Verragio, the renaissance 992R13. We had to purchase this from a Robbins Brothers since they are the authorized retailer. The salesperson said not to worry about the jeweler setting the FL diamond and they would be extra cautious. To set the diamond of 2.01-3 carat is $350. I'm not sure if all their warranties that the salesperson said will apply.

Now that we're waiting for the setting to arrive, I started to wonder if I need insurance. Even though the salesperson said that damages rarely happen, I'm not so sure they would cover any damage since I did not purchase the stone from them. Does insurance only cover the stone and setting its appraised on? If it is re-set, will insurance not cover the stone? Do I have anything to worry about at Robbins Brothers or should I just let them do their thing?

Anyway, I'll post photos from before and after. Thanks in advance!

2 carat, GIA graded, G color, FL, Excellent cut, polish, & Symmetry.
 
I would definitely purchase insurance for now and in the future. Things happen and while they may happen rarely, you don’t want it to be during the setting process. Insurance is what allows you to wear a diamond ring without worry. Jewelers Mutual is a good company to consider. Make sure you give them every detail and hopefully the diamond is GIA graded so provide that to them as well.
 
Hello, 1955FL!
Yes, insure it for today's full replacement value ASAP!
Even if it's not in the possession of the jeweler, owner accidents do happen like knocking it on walls, doors, handles, etc or (hopefully you'll never have to experience it) losing the diamond from one of a myriad of reasons.
Murphy's Law, and all...
 
Thanks @MissGotRocks for your recommendation. I purchased the Jeweler Mutual policy.

As for the setting itself, I confirmed the Robbins Brothers insurance wouldn't cover my diamond, so I was able to get a full refund. They were easy about it and understood my concerns.
 
1955FL said:
Thanks @MissGotRocks for your recommendation. I purchased the Jeweler Mutual policy.

As for the setting itself, I confirmed the Robbins Brothers insurance wouldn't cover my diamond, so I was able to get a full refund. They were easy about it and understood my concerns.
Click to expand...

So what are you going to do about a setting?
 
MissGotRocks said:
So what are you going to do about a setting?
Click to expand...

I asked the jeweler who originally sold me the FL diamond if they could purchase the Verragio setting for me. I didn't ask initially due to the distance/location of their store.

Anyway, I think I got a bit of anxiety watching youtube videos of setting the diamond.. the tools definitely look rough around the facets!
 
1955FL said:
I asked the jeweler who originally sold me the FL diamond if they could purchase the Verragio setting for me. I didn't ask initially due to the distance/location of their store.

Anyway, I think I got a bit of anxiety watching youtube videos of setting the diamond.. the tools definitely look rough around the facets!
Click to expand...

I think you still need to confirm whose insurance will cover any damage that may happen during a resetting. Don't just assume that the jewelers will just because you bought the diamond from them.
 
1955FL said:
I asked the jeweler who originally sold me the FL diamond if they could purchase the Verragio setting for me. I didn't ask initially due to the distance/location of their store.

Anyway, I think I got a bit of anxiety watching youtube videos of setting the diamond.. the tools definitely look rough around the facets!
Click to expand...

Diamonds are very hard but I know what you mean about the setting process. Generally speaking, it is a safe procedure but anything can happen - though rare. I would just double check with Jewelers Mutual to make sure the coverage includes setting.
 
Lookinagain said:
I think you still need to confirm whose insurance will cover any damage that may happen during a resetting. Don't just assume that the jewelers will just because you bought the diamond from them.
Click to expand...

I bought 3 stones from BG and then once I decided what I wanted to do with them, I asked him to create the setting. They treated my stones as “outside” and wouldn’t insure them if there was damage. I ended up with DK who has bench insurance - so happy I did!
 
jjca said:
I bought 3 stones from BG and then once I decided what I wanted to do with them, I asked him to create the setting. They treated my stones as “outside” and wouldn’t insure them if there was damage. I ended up with DK who has bench insurance - so happy I did!
Click to expand...

What’s BG and DK?

Good to know to ask about bench insurance. Thanks!
 
1955FL said:
What’s BG and DK?

Good to know to ask about bench insurance. Thanks!
Click to expand...

BG is Brian Gavin diamonds and DK is David Klass who has made many PSers rings. He can source diamonds as well.
 
1955FL said:
What’s BG and DK?

Good to know to ask about bench insurance. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I almost went with a local jeweler - but if I had used them - they got to pick what stone to replace mine with if it had been damaged in setting. They told me that hearts and arrows are just a gimmick and that their triple excellent were just as good - I walked away. The issue I had was that my insurance company only insures completed rings. David was a dream to work with. Highly recommend him if you’re going custom.
 
Check with JM. Is your policy on the loose stone or is it on the ring? When I purchased my ER stone I insured the loose stone (with JM) prior to setting so it was covered during setting. Now I have a different policy on the finished ring. And I do not know if it would be covered during setting if I were to reset.

Another possibility is that the jeweler’s insurance would cover the stone for possible damage during setting. Ask about that, and get specific. Amounts, etc.
 
Tonks said:
Check with JM. Is your policy on the loose stone or is it on the ring? When I purchased my ER stone I insured the loose stone (with JM) prior to setting so it was covered during setting. Now I have a different policy on the finished ring. And I do not know if it would be covered during setting if I were to reset.

Another possibility is that the jeweler’s insurance would cover the stone for possible damage during setting. Ask about that, and get specific. Amounts, etc.
Click to expand...

I just got the policy, I’ll have to get the appraisal with the stone set and submit to JM
 
Just so you know ...
Over the decades I've read here on PS several times that the setting process can, may or will reduce a flawless diamond down to an Internally flawless.

If so, JM may not pay such a claim.
Read their policy's fine print; better yet ask them.
And please let us know what they say.

Of course I may be committing the common crime of repeating something not actually true, so I welcome input on this from experts, and from you and JM.

So while diamonds are tough, apparently the stress of setting is also pretty brutal.
 
kenny said:
Just so you know ...
Over the decades I've read here on PS several times that the setting process can, may or will reduce a flawless diamond down to an Internally flawless.

If so, JM may not pay such a claim.
Read their policy's fine print; better yet ask them.
And please let us know what they say.

Of course I may be committing the common crime of repeating something not actually true, so I welcome input on this from experts, and from you and JM.

So while diamonds are tough, apparently the stress of setting is also pretty brutal.
Click to expand...

I actually thought it was expected that setting reduced a FL to IF.

I remember seeing a FL from a dealer a few years back with a note affixed to only handle with a certain implement (maybe it just said no tweezers?). But I remember thinking that yeah, any surface blemish downgrades that stone.
 
Tonks said:
I actually thought it was expected that setting reduced a FL to IF.

I remember seeing a FL from a dealer a few years back with a note affixed to only handle with a certain implement (maybe it just said no tweezers?). But I remember thinking that yeah, any surface blemish downgrades that stone.
Click to expand...

I believe well-informed diamond geeks expect it.
But I suspect we're a microscopic percentage of the general public.

I'm just bringing it up here because of the specific concerns @1955FL posted about their Flawless diamond being reset. Which means it will have been set twice.
(A good argument for not paying the extra big bucks for flawless, instead of internally flawless which is what it will likely be after setting.)

To quote 19955FL, "I purchased an FL diamond a year ago and put it on a temporary setting to propose. ... We finally picked a platinum setting from Verragio ... I started to wonder if I need insurance. Even though the salesperson said that damages rarely happen, I'm not so sure they would cover any damage since I did not purchase the stone from them."

It could be argued that flawless diamonds are advised only for people who will leave it loose, perhaps in a safe deposit box for their future legacy.
Then the extra money paid for the flawless grade doesn't vanish when set.

I bought a small ideal-cut D IF round, maybe 1/4 ct, just because I wanted one.
 
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kenny said:
I believe well-informed diamond geeks expect it.
But I suspect we're a microscopic percentage of the general public.
Click to expand...

Aww, @kenny , did you just call me a well informed diamond geek????

That made my day!
 
Tonks said:
Aww, @kenny , did you just call me a well informed diamond geek????

That made my day!
Click to expand...

Well I gotta kiss your butt.
I'm afraid you're might hit me with that stick, or composer's baton, or wizard magic wand or ice pick.
 
kenny said:
I believe well-informed diamond geeks expect it.
But I suspect we're a microscopic percentage of the general public.

I'm just bringing it up here because of the specific concerns @1955FL posted about their Flawless diamond being reset. Which means it will have been set twice.
(A good argument for not paying the extra big bucks for flawless, instead of internally flawless which is what it will likely be after setting.)

To quote 19955FL, "I purchased an FL diamond a year ago and put it on a temporary setting to propose. ... We finally picked a platinum setting from Verragio ... I started to wonder if I need insurance. Even though the salesperson said that damages rarely happen, I'm not so sure they would cover any damage since I did not purchase the stone from them."

It could be argued that flawless diamonds are advised only for people who will leave it loose, perhaps in a safe deposit box for their future legacy.
Then the extra money paid for the flawless grade doesn't vanish when set.

I bought a small ideal-cut D IF round, maybe 1/4 ct, just because I wanted one.
Click to expand...

So essentially, every diamond gets blemishes when being set? (nicks, scratches, abrasions, burn marks)

Wouldn't this be a cause for concern for anyone getting their diamond set?
do surface blemishes not matter for VVS1, VVS2 diamonds?

Wouldn't this change the polish grade rather than the clarity grade?
 
mostly it will only change the clarity grade for a Flawless->IF...

Some Flawless stones the vendors don't even like to take out and photograph / video / asset etc... for fear of harming them...

that said the only FL that really make an issue of such things are the D's.... For awhile FL D sold mostly into the China market where they lived in protective cases in safes. Flawless D's 3x EX also have the highest premium bump % from IF.... (Best Clarity of the Best Color...)

rapaport.com

What Happened to All the 1ct. D-Flawlesses?

India’s production have impacted inventories. Manufacturers have focused on goods that are in demand, creating gaps in certain areas.
rapaport.com rapaport.com
 
1955FL said:
So essentially, every diamond gets blemishes when being set? (nicks, scratches, abrasions, burn marks)

Wouldn't this be a cause for concern for anyone getting their diamond set?
do surface blemishes not matter for VVS1, VVS2 diamonds?

Wouldn't this change the polish grade rather than the clarity grade?
Click to expand...

The only difference between FL and IF is that the IF has some sort of external blemish, which could be anything from a natural to an abrasion on a facet junction. A tiny scratch or abrasion that can only be seen with 10X magnification will drop a FL to IF, so the setting process does pose some risk. While damage of this sort is not a forgone conclusion, it is prudent to assume it will happen. Therefore, if the potential value loss is great, setting a FL is a legitimate concern.

That said, and as @freddyboston mentioned, the main value differentials between FL and IF exist in D color, particularly in larger sizes. In the case of a G color, even at the 2ct size, there is not such great difference. And, since it has already been set once, there is no guarantee it is still a FL without sending it back to the lab to get an updated cert. While a good jeweler will inspect the stone carefully before setting it, they would not normally be expected to be able to pick up on a tiny blemish that might be detected at the lab.

Anectodally, we have been offering a tradeup program for a quarter of a century now, with the stipulation that the orginal diamond be recertified as in original condition. And in a strong majority of cases they pass that test. These are diamonds that not only have been set, but have been worn daily for sometimes up to more than 20 years. Diamonds are not indestructible, but they are exceptionally durable!
 
1955FL said:
So essentially, every diamond gets blemishes when being set? (nicks, scratches, abrasions, burn marks)

Wouldn't this be a cause for concern for anyone getting their diamond set?
do surface blemishes not matter for VVS1, VVS2 diamonds?

Wouldn't this change the polish grade rather than the clarity grade?
Click to expand...
There’s always a risk of damage when force is applied on a diamond, whether during the setting process or daily wear. If the damage is severe enough, like a new chip, it can affect the clarity grade. In the absolute worse case scenario it’s even possible for a diamond to shatter when force is applied at just the right/wrong spot. That’s why insurance is generally recommended.

As long as you get adequate insurance I wouldn’t overthink it. In most cases any damage is superficial and can be repaired. I had a diamond that picked up a scratch on the table after near a decade of daily wear, which went unnoticed until I traded it in. Insurance fully covered the cost of repair and a new report. Weight loss is so minimal it shows the same carat weight on the new report and the clarity grade did not change.
 
0-0-0 said:
There’s always a risk of damage when force is applied on a diamond, whether during the setting process or daily wear. If the damage is severe enough, like a new chip, it can affect the clarity grade. In the absolute worse case scenario it’s even possible for a diamond to shatter when force is applied at just the right/wrong spot. That’s why insurance is generally recommended.

As long as you get adequate insurance I wouldn’t overthink it. In most cases any damage is superficial and can be repaired. I had a diamond that picked up a scratch on the table after near a decade of daily wear, which went unnoticed until I traded it in. Insurance fully covered the cost of repair and a new report. Weight loss is so minimal it shows the same carat weight on the new report and the clarity grade did not change.
Click to expand...

Was it GIA graded? a new report would mean a new number, did you have to get the inscription redone?
 
Thanks for sharing ! I wonder if those pavilion side pin points on the GIA report are from the previous setting and wear?

either way, I'm not too concerned about something like pin points changing FL to IF. It is an engagement ring after all and not an investment for us.

I just don't want a chip/nick or blemish that will get bigger or develop a crack overtime.
 
I suspect GIA was just more thorough in mapping out the inclusions. The pavilion is the most protected part of a diamond set in a ring, and the pinpoints mapped are internal inclusions.
 
1955FL said:
Thanks for sharing ! I wonder if those pavilion side pin points on the GIA report are from the previous setting and wear?

either way, I'm not too concerned about something like pin points changing FL to IF. It is an engagement ring after all and not an investment for us.

I just don't want a chip/nick or blemish that will get bigger or develop a crack overtime.
Click to expand...

No, I think those pinpoints were always there. GIA mapped them and AGS did not.
 
MissGotRocks said:
No, I think those pinpoints were always there. GIA mapped them and AGS did not.
Click to expand...

I agree. Not all inclusions are necessarily plotted - only those necessary to identify the stone and to support the clarity grade. You will often find mention of additional features in Comments if they are significant.

Pinpoints are inclusions, not blemishes, so they are internal to the diamond and not the result of damage in setting. Had the stone been a VVS clarity, you would have seen the pinpoints on the AGS plot too, as those would have been necessary to support a VVS grading call and to map the locations for identification purposes.

This is an example of differences between labs in how they approach the finer aspects of grading.
 
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