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First Post, and Advice on a Diamond

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DMO17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
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12
Hi FOlks,

I have been doing a lot of reading here at Pscope for a few months now. I have recently stepped up my effort to find a diamond E-ring.

I have one in particular that I wanted to get your opinions on:

Carat Weight: 1.28
Clarity: VS1
Color: H
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
Fluorescence: Strong Blue
Culet: None
Depth: 59.9%
Table: 59%
Crown Angle: 34.5
Crown% 14%
Pavilion Angle: 40.5
Pavillion %: 42.5
Culet: 3% (thin to medium)
Price: $5,132

I was concerned about the Fluorescence of Strong Blue. I haven''t yet seen the stone but from what I read this shouldn''t be a problem. Can someone tell me how to evaluate whether it is exceptable? Will the milky look really be that apparent?

I have a few other sellers to visit, but for the money this seemed to be a really good diamond. I would love to get your opinions and feedback.

Thanks,
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
13,324
Double check the pavilion angle, as GIA rounds to the nearest .2 degree. Unless it is not GIA, of course. HRD, perhaps?

It is very,very difficult to find a milky stone. There are some pictures on PS, I believe. I think it's one of those "once you see it, you'll know it" type of things.
 

DMO17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
12
Hi Julie,

Sorry type on my part:

The Pavillion Angle is 40.6.

Regards,
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
42,064
Hi DMO,

Have you seen the diamond in person? Or is it with an online seller? As Julie says with the strong fluorescence and any negative effects, as one of our experts says it can be one of those things that you will know it if you see it, but this is rare.
 

DMO17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
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12
Ok so I am really torn between two diamonds. The one I described up above with the strong blue fluorescence and this one:

GIA#2106236599
Carat Weight: 1.24
Clarity: VS2
Color: I
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Culet: None
Depth: 62.4%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 34.5
Crown% 15%
Pavilion Angle: 41.2
Pavillion %: 43.5
Girdle: medium to slighlty thick
Cullet: None
Price: $5,204

So when I compare the two diamonds using the HCA: this one ranks a 3.4, where as the one above with fluorescence ranks a 1.1 (excellent in all categories).

I went to see both diamonds today, from different sellers but in the same building. I had the expectation that the top one (w/ fluorescence) would be a better looking diamond and just wanted to make sure that I was ok with the fluorescence and that it wasn''t milky.

I saw the 1.28 (fluorescent) stone first. This seller is located in an office unit. While it did show some blue under sunlight I was quite happy with the clarity. No milky or oily look at all. I was surprised when we put the diamond in the sunlight beside a non fluroescence diamond, both looked to have a light purple color to them. Even the one with no fluorescence. Is this normal?

Next I went downstairs to more of a showroom where many vendors are. The other diamond listed above (1.24C) is located there. This diamond looked really good. Lots of fire. We even put it next too a lessor cut 1.34C diamond, and to my eyes it almost looked bigger. My only concern was this was under some track lighting spotlights so all the diamonds he had looked very good.

When I was upstairs in the office, I think they just had the standard office fluorscent lighting so none of the diamonds I saw ever shined like down in the showroom.

So now I am torn. The one diamond looks good down in the showroom and has no fluorescence, but the Cut Clarity Color and Weight are all better in the diamond with Fluorescence. Both diamonds are the same price.

What would you do?

I want to almost ask to see if the guy upstairs would bring his diamond downstairs with me to compare, even if only under the spotlights.
 

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
3,559
Date: 4/9/2009 4:44:05 PM
Author: DMO17

I want to almost ask to see if the guy upstairs would bring his diamond downstairs with me to compare, even if only under the spotlights.
Doesn''t hurt to ask, although his insurance restrictions may prevent it. Or, you could take down and compare them yourself if the upstairs guy will let you put a refundable deposit on it for that purpose.

If you''re able to work that out, be sure to compare them side by side under the counter - or away from any direct light - as well.
 

jet2ks

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,022
You really need to look at the diamonds in as many different lighting scenarios as possible (especially daylight). The track lighting in showrooms is designed specifically to show off the diamonds and a stone that looks good under showroom lighting may be lifeless under more realistic conditions.
 

rookie1981

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
17
I agree. See if you can view the diamonds side-by-side. If you can''t, I would see if the second vendor will let you take the 1.24 outside, or at least out of the track lighting, to see how the diamond will perform under more normal lighting conditions. If there is not a noticeable difference between the two, your decision may come down to which jeweler you feel most comfortable with and what "fringe benefits" each seller offers (i.e. free cleaning, maintenance, guarantees, etc.).

Keep us posted!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
My choice would be the first diamond, the pavilion angle is steep on the second, especially with an I colour I would rather have a less steep pavilion. But go with the one that looks best to you.
 

DMO17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
12
Lorelei,

So youw ould take the first even though it had the strong blue fluoresence?

I am going to see hwat I can do to compare them side by side.

Do even non fluoresence diamonds have a light purple hue in sunlight?

Thanks,
 

bagelboy

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
186
DMO17, The first diamond is slightly larger, has a higher color and higher clarity and is better cut. The strong blue floro is a huge bonus as it will bring down the price. I like the light purple blue myself and you said that also. Some people seek out these diamonds for all of the above. By the numbers, the first diamond should perform better than the the second diamond. Office lighting is not the best lighting to make a diamond sparkle and flash. Track lighting with halogen lights will ANY diamond look really sparkly, even if not so well cut. It helps sell diamonds. A diamond without floro should not look light blue in sunlight. Diamonds do reflect light from other surfaces such as blue painted walls or the bright blue shirt you were wearing or the blue sky outside. By the way, it is very rare to find a strong or very strong floro diamong that is milky or appears oily. Nice to check it out, but I bet you could not find one if you really wanted one. I would pick the 1.28 every time. Your girl will love it!!!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 4/12/2009 9:58:33 PM
Author: DMO17
Lorelei,

So youw ould take the first even though it had the strong blue fluoresence?

I am going to see hwat I can do to compare them side by side.

Do even non fluoresence diamonds have a light purple hue in sunlight?

Thanks,
Yes I would take the first in preference and I like fluorescence. Sometimes a diamond can pick up the blue of the sky in sunlight, but non fluorescent won''t look blue due to fluorescence if it isn''t present.
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
You really should compare both at the same time under different lighting conditions.
My guess is that the first one will look even better under the spots.

Fluorescence can be very good, sometimes it can be bad.
Nothing in the comments part of the certificates?
I''ve had an ideal cut diamond with some fluo and graining and it wasn''t beautiful.
I really hate surface/internal graining.
 

DMO17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
12
Ok so now I don''t know what to do. Based off the comments from the seller of the 1.28 flour diamond I am thinking that I should stay away. Here is what he told me when I asked about putting a deposit down to compare the two diamonds:

"The reason that the price of the diamond I have is less expensive IS the Fluorescence , and yes fluorescence does take some brilliance away from the diamond , and to save you trouble I know that when you compare the 2 diamond side by side the NO FLUORESCENCE one will be brighter , but so is the case with every different quality diamond , meaning you can see the difference between 2 diamonds only when you have them side by side, when they are mounted on the ring ,even a diamond expert will have a hard time to tell the difference without the proper equipment or lighting ."

The other problem is that their is no return policy if I buy here because he is a wholesaler and not a retail store, whereas the other diamond is a retail store so I would have a 7 day money back return if I wanted.

I was thinking maybe I should try and see if I can put a deposit down on the non-flour stone to bring it upstairs and compare since it doesn''t look like I could do the vice-versa.

I am a very dissapointed because I was very excited about the 1.28 flour stone because of the HCA results. (I''m very numbers/mathematical in nature, so I loved the results from this diamond vs the 1.24 which weren''t as promising)

Thoughts?
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
If the price difference with an online vendor is worth it, keep trying to find which one pleases you.
 

DMO17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
12
Thats the problem. The price is definitly worthwhile. Blue nile has a comparable stone for 4C''s with strong blue flour however it scores in the 4''s on the HCA and it is $10k vs this one for $7k with taxes in.

Maybe I should just go with the safe bet, however that has never been my style so I''m really torn :)
 

DKinLA

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
75
Date: 4/13/2009 4:15:08 PM
Author: DMO17
Ok so now I don''t know what to do. Based off the comments from the seller of the 1.28 flour diamond I am thinking that I should stay away. Here is what he told me when I asked about putting a deposit down to compare the two diamonds:

''The reason that the price of the diamond I have is less expensive IS the Fluorescence , and yes fluorescence does take some brilliance away from the diamond , and to save you trouble I know that when you compare the 2 diamond side by side the NO FLUORESCENCE one will be brighter , but so is the case with every different quality diamond , meaning you can see the difference between 2 diamonds only when you have them side by side, when they are mounted on the ring ,even a diamond expert will have a hard time to tell the difference without the proper equipment or lighting .''

The other problem is that their is no return policy if I buy here because he is a wholesaler and not a retail store, whereas the other diamond is a retail store so I would have a 7 day money back return if I wanted.

I was thinking maybe I should try and see if I can put a deposit down on the non-flour stone to bring it upstairs and compare since it doesn''t look like I could do the vice-versa.

I am a very dissapointed because I was very excited about the 1.28 flour stone because of the HCA results. (I''m very numbers/mathematical in nature, so I loved the results from this diamond vs the 1.24 which weren''t as promising)

Thoughts?
What - Fluorescence takes away brilliance ... Not True!

I was hesitant to purchase my first diamond with medium blue fluroescence but due to the return policy I took the plunge. The diamond was amazing. It was clear, very firey and bright. In the sun the body color would take on a light blue/purple hue but it still sparkled and was clear. In normal office lighting you would never know it had fluro. I did notice that compared to non-fluro diamonds it did give off a lot more blue flashes - which I love!! So when it was time for my upgrade recently, I purchase a strong blue E color diamond. I wouldn''t let the fact alone that a stone has fluorescence make you decide not to purchase.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Date: 4/13/2009 4:28:33 PM
Author: DKinLA
Date: 4/13/2009 4:15:08 PM
Author: DMO17
Ok so now I don''t know what to do. Based off the comments from the seller of the 1.28 flour diamond I am thinking that I should stay away. Here is what he told me when I asked about putting a deposit down to compare the two diamonds:

''The reason that the price of the diamond I have is less expensive IS the Fluorescence , and yes fluorescence does take some brilliance away from the diamond , and to save you trouble I know that when you compare the 2 diamond side by side the NO FLUORESCENCE one will be brighter , but so is the case with every different quality diamond , meaning you can see the difference between 2 diamonds only when you have them side by side, when they are mounted on the ring ,even a diamond expert will have a hard time to tell the difference without the proper equipment or lighting .''

The other problem is that their is no return policy if I buy here because he is a wholesaler and not a retail store, whereas the other diamond is a retail store so I would have a 7 day money back return if I wanted.

I was thinking maybe I should try and see if I can put a deposit down on the non-flour stone to bring it upstairs and compare since it doesn''t look like I could do the vice-versa.

I am a very dissapointed because I was very excited about the 1.28 flour stone because of the HCA results. (I''m very numbers/mathematical in nature, so I loved the results from this diamond vs the 1.24 which weren''t as promising)

Thoughts?
What - Fluorescence takes away brilliance ... Not True!

I was hesitant to purchase my first diamond with medium blue fluroescence but due to the return policy I took the plunge. The diamond was amazing. It was clear, very firey and bright. In the sun the body color would take on a light blue/purple hue but it still sparkled and was clear. In normal office lighting you would never know it had fluro. I did notice that compared to non-fluro diamonds it did give off a lot more blue flashes - which I love!! So when it was time for my upgrade recently, I purchase a strong blue E color diamond. I wouldn''t let the fact alone that a stone has fluorescence make you decide not to purchase.
Totally agree, what a load of crap. As long as the stone is not one of the rare fluor kind that results in an oily/hazy appearance, it should not matter. I have 1 VSB and it perform just as well.
 

DKinLA

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
75
Sorry,
Just thougt of one more thing. Try to look at a flourescent diamond in sunlight - not through a window. Some windows and plastics, like Lexan, block UV.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 4/13/2009 4:15:08 PM
Author: DMO17
Ok so now I don't know what to do. Based off the comments from the seller of the 1.28 flour diamond I am thinking that I should stay away. Here is what he told me when I asked about putting a deposit down to compare the two diamonds:

'The reason that the price of the diamond I have is less expensive IS the Fluorescence , and yes fluorescence does take some brilliance away from the diamond , and to save you trouble I know that when you compare the 2 diamond side by side the NO FLUORESCENCE one will be brighter , but so is the case with every different quality diamond , meaning you can see the difference between 2 diamonds only when you have them side by side, when they are mounted on the ring ,even a diamond expert will have a hard time to tell the difference without the proper equipment or lighting .'

The other problem is that their is no return policy if I buy here because he is a wholesaler and not a retail store, whereas the other diamond is a retail store so I would have a 7 day money back return if I wanted.

I was thinking maybe I should try and see if I can put a deposit down on the non-flour stone to bring it upstairs and compare since it doesn't look like I could do the vice-versa.

I am a very dissapointed because I was very excited about the 1.28 flour stone because of the HCA results. (I'm very numbers/mathematical in nature, so I loved the results from this diamond vs the 1.24 which weren't as promising)

Thoughts?
To try and put this politely, this is untrue - it is very rare that this happens that strong blue fluorescence makes a diamond look cloudy. Also the proportions of the second diamond are not as good. Just a quick note concerning the HCA, it is used for elimination not selection, the aim is to score below 2 then evaluate from there.
 

DMO17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
12
The strange thing is that the message I posted above was from the person who actually is trying to sell me the diamond with the Flour. (1st diamond listed)

When I went to see it last week, he gave me another diamond that he said had no flour in it and they both looked fine under office lighting. When I brought it to the window (strong sunlight coming in) the one with strong flour had a definite periwinkle color, although I did notice a similiar type hue from the one that wasn't suppose to have flour. This is what prompted my question above. It made me wonder whether the diamond he gave me to compare actually had flour as well.

I wonder if I can buy this diamond upon the agreement of a independant apparaiser takes a look at it and it matches not only the GIA but that the flour doesn't have any negative affects on the diamond?
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
42,064
Date: 4/13/2009 5:04:31 PM
Author: DMO17
The strange thing is that the message I posted above was from the person who actually is trying to sell me the diamond with the Flour. (1st diamond listed)

When I went to see it last week, he gave me another stone that he said had no flour in it and they both looked fine under office lighting. When I brought it to the window (strong sunlight coming in) the one with strong flour had a definite perwinkle color, although I did notice a similiar type hue from the one that wasn't suppose to have flour. This is what promted my question above. It made me wonder whether the diamond he gave me to compare actually had flour as well.

I wonder if I can buy this diamond upon the agreement of a independant apparaiser takes a look at it and it matches not only the GIA but that the flour doesn't have any negative affects on the diamond?
If you trust the vendor and want to continue to deal with them then this is certainly an option.
 

DMO17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
12
OK, well after a lot of thinking I think I have decided to pass on both the diamonds above. I don''t want to stare at a diamond for the next 50 years and have regrets. So on to plan B which I should have given more serious thought to in the first place.

Plan B: I was fairly intent on buying a Excel Tiffany Replica the whole time so I spent all of yesterday looking through their inventory. I have selected 6 new diamonds which I am happy with and now am looking to narrow them down. Today I phoned Barry and was very happy with our discussion and the time he took to answer all my questions.

I will update you all when I get it down to my top 2 or 3 diamonds for your assistance. I am feeling better that I will have someone like Barry give me his opinion on a certain diamond like an SI1 and let me know if it is acceptable. Plus it will now be set at the same location as I buy the ring from which has also eleviated some stress that I had.

Thanks everyone for your help thus far.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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42,064
Date: 4/14/2009 10:56:49 AM
Author: DMO17
OK, well after a lot of thinking I think I have decided to pass on both the diamonds above. I don''t want to stare at a diamond for the next 50 years and have regrets. So on to plan B which I should have given more serious thought to in the first place.

Plan B: I was fairly intent on buying a Excel Tiffany Replica the whole time so I spent all of yesterday looking through their inventory. I have selected 6 new diamonds which I am happy with and now am looking to narrow them down. Today I phoned Barry and was very happy with our discussion and the time he took to answer all my questions.

I will update you all when I get it down to my top 2 or 3 diamonds for your assistance. I am feeling better that I will have someone like Barry give me his opinion on a certain diamond like an SI1 and let me know if it is acceptable. Plus it will now be set at the same location as I buy the ring from which has also eleviated some stress that I had.

Thanks everyone for your help thus far.
I think you have made the right decision. Excel are also a great vendor and Barry or Judah will take very good care of you! Let us know when you would like some more help!
 

DMO17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
12

Ok, so I am currently evaluating 3 diamonds with Barry all of varying sizes.


I want your opinion on what you think of each of the following ASET photos, and which you feel is the best. I will also provide the cut details for each.


Diamond #1:
Depth: 59.8
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 32.5
Crown Height: 13.5%
Pavil. Angle: 40.8
Pavil. Depth: 43%


42833_xlarge2.jpg
 

DMO17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
12
Diamond#2
Depth: 59.6
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 33
Crown Height: 14%
Pavil. Angle: 40.6
Pavil. Depth: 42.5%



42835_xlarge.jpg
 
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