Finding H&A locally

[puravida]

So I went to a local, very reputable B&M store today to try on some Michael B settings and talk to them about their diamond inventory. After doing research on PS, I wanted to put all my new found knowledge to the test. The people at the store were very helpful, knowledgeable and delivered excellent customer service (in comparison to what I encountered over the weekend as I put my PS know-how to the test at some "shopping mall" jewellery stores i.e. poeple''s, mappins, kavar--i live in Canada).

Anyhoo, after shopping around for stones online I wanted to see how this local B&M (the one I was impressed with) compared, price-wise.

They gave me a printed out list of their diamond inventory (updated frequently). It listed their stones by size, cut, clarity, colour and price. Most of their stones were GIA or Gemscan (a few IGI). I asked about AGS and the lady I dealt with just said that they didn''t send their stones there. Their paper listing also listed the dimensions of the stone. It didn''t list: crown/pavillion info, table, depth, polish, symmetry, etc. I asked about these figures and was told that they are avaialable for any stone I am interested in; on the actual certificate.

One of the main takehome messages I got from all my PS research was that AGS rated stones are cream of the crop.
Should I be concerned that this store does not use AGS?

If I''m interested in an H&A stone, how do I go about narrowing down their inventory list if it doesn''t explicity say so on the list?

For a GIA to be H&A, does it HAVE TO BE an Ideal cut? If so, I should only ask more info about those that are "Ideal" and satisfy my other criteria (G/H, eyeclean SI1), right?

Can GIA stones be ACA H&A?

(Sorry if these are basic questions, I''m still trying to wrap my head around the specs of a H&A stone...like what NEEDS to be present, dimension/grade wise for it to be H&A. Or is it just a matter of it carrying the H&A name?)


I haven''t excluded the possibility of buying online, I just want to see how this particular store compares to online vendors. I would be happy to find a decently priced stone from this local store though, since I live in Canada, it would avoid extra costs like shipping, customs, taxes, etc.

Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Rhino]

Hey pura,

Date: 11/10/2008 7:09:09 PM
Author:puravida

One of the main takehome messages I got from all my PS research was that AGS rated stones are cream of the crop.
Should I be concerned that this store does not use AGS?

No. There are equally beautiful GIA diamonds. AGS does not have the market cornered on top cut quality. The thing is, if a diamond is going to be touted as having top optics, top precision or both ... what's the proof? BTW an EGL diamond can have top optics too but more likely to be a little more loosely graded in clarity/color.

If I'm interested in an H&A stone, how do I go about narrowing down their inventory list if it doesn't explicity say so on the list?

My advice is if a company claims H&A, again ... ask for proof. Preferably photographic proof or through a scanner that generates 3d models like a Sarin or Helium scan. With those 3d models expert consumers on here can *see* if the diamond is cut to the level of precision of H&A status.

For a GIA to be H&A, does it HAVE TO BE an Ideal cut?

It would at least have to make the GIA Ex boundary but that is no guarantee. Also GIA does not grade diamonds as being Ideal. Excellent is their top grade.

If so, I should only ask more info about those that are 'Ideal' and satisfy my other criteria (G/H, eyeclean SI1), right?

Ex ... yes. A good start would be getting the basic measurement info off the GIA Report however that is not conclusive to determining H&A or rarest optics.

Can GIA stones be ACA H&A?

ACA is one brand of H&A and I don't think ACA's are GIA graded. H&A's can be found both branded and unbranded, AGS graded or GIA graded (and I have run into a facility cutting H&A's and having them EGL graded too).

(Sorry if these are basic questions, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the specs of a H&A stone...like what NEEDS to be present, dimension/grade wise for it to be H&A. Or is it just a matter of it carrying the H&A name?)


I haven't excluded the possibility of buying online, I just want to see how this particular store compares to online vendors. I would be happy to find a decently priced stone from this local store though, since I live in Canada, it would avoid extra costs like shipping, customs, taxes, etc.

Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks.

Understood and good luck in your hunt. I hope the local is able to meet your needs.

Kind regards,

 

[vintagelover229]

I highly recommened you buy online from whiteflash or goodoldgold...but IF you must pay the overpriced amount at a B&M...I say go to Jared...they have an AGS Ideal cut diamond called the peerless diamond which is a H&A diamond, now, keep in mind you can get the SAME STONES online thorugh whiteflash, there a cut above dimaond, for less money. at jared they do show you a H&A scope and you can see the arrows and hearts for yourself.
good luck on your search!

 

[puravida]

Rhino, thanks for taking the time to reply to questions from a newbie like me I really appreciate it. I just need to let it all sink in now

Also thanks for correcting me on GIAs top grade for cut being Excellent.

Sounds like if I want to entertain the possibility of buying a stone from this B&M store I should straight out ask which stones are H&A and fit my criteria of G/H, SI1. Then I could get the specs of those and consider the certifying agency and take it from there.

I also take that ACA is just a brand of H&A. (The top H&A brand?) But if I''m after a H&A diamond it needn''t be ACA, AGS or even GIA.

Would I be right to say though, that an AGS0 would likely be H&A? But a GIA Excellent cut is not necessarily going to exhibit H&A.

Please correct me if I''ve gottent his wrong.

redrose: As I live in Toronto there is no Jared''s near me that I know of. However I am still strongly considering whiteflash or GOG.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 11/10/2008 10:16:10 PM
Author: puravida
Rhino, thanks for taking the time to reply to questions from a newbie like me I really appreciate it. I just need to let it all sink in now


Also thanks for correcting me on GIAs top grade for cut being Excellent.


Sounds like if I want to entertain the possibility of buying a stone from this B&M store I should straight out ask which stones are H&A and fit my criteria of G/H, SI1. Then I could get the specs of those and consider the certifying agency and take it from there.


I also take that ACA is just a brand of H&A. (The top H&A brand?) But if I'm after a H&A diamond it needn't be ACA, AGS or even GIA.


Would I be right to say though, that an AGS0 would likely be H&A? But a GIA Excellent cut is not necessarily going to exhibit H&A.


Please correct me if I've gottent his wrong.


redrose: As I live in Toronto there is no Jared's near me that I know of. However I am still strongly considering whiteflash or GOG.

ACA are Whiteflash.com only. They are custom cut for them, so you need not concern yourself with these stones unless you are buying from Whiteflash. An AGS0 is most likely to be H&A over any of the other "top make" diamond grades from GIA, etc. But it doesn't guarantee it. And a GIA excellent has an even wider range, so it's less likely than an AGS0 stone to have H&A, but doesn't mean it won't. I would just simply tell your B&M store that you only want to see stones with either AGS0 or GIA Excellent cuts, and that exhibit H&A pattern. If they can't do that, then you can take your business elsewhere. But it isn't that hard...

 

[Dancing Fire]

any hearts on fire vendor near you?

 

[t-neck]

Can a non H&A stone outperform a H&A stone?

Let''s say GIA EX cut but non H&A look better than AGS0 with H&A. Or is it pretty much guarantee AGS0 H&A will be the best looking stone?

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 11/11/2008 9:09:47 AM
Author: t-neck
Can a non H&A stone outperform a H&A stone?


Let's say GIA EX cut but non H&A look better than AGS0 with H&A. Or is it pretty much guarantee AGS0 H&A will be the best looking stone?

Again, it depends on what you mean by "best looking" if both stones are cut very tightly the light performance difference to the naked eye is minimal IMO. But as for just looking at the diamond's pattern, the H&A will look more symmetrical and nice IMO. It's really a personal preference whether to pay for the H&A once you are talking about really ideally cut stones IMO...

Ultimately, if you have two stones that are cut to "ideal" parameters in front of you, and one clearly looks better to your eyes, BUY IT. These are just tools in a toolkit to be used when making a final decision.

 

[Rhino]

Good afternoon,

Date: 11/10/2008 10:16:10 PM
Author: puravida
Rhino, thanks for taking the time to reply to questions from a newbie like me I really appreciate it. I just need to let it all sink in now

No prob.

Also thanks for correcting me on GIAs top grade for cut being Excellent.

Sure thing. With all the cut gradings out there (not including some in house ones) its easy to get lost in the maze.

Sounds like if I want to entertain the possibility of buying a stone from this B&M store I should straight out ask which stones are H&A and fit my criteria of G/H, SI1. Then I could get the specs of those and consider the certifying agency and take it from there.

I also take that ACA is just a brand of H&A. (The top H&A brand?)

Each brand has its own criteria for what does and doesn''t qualify for the brand name. Different brands feature different qualifying criteria.

But if I''m after a H&A diamond it needn''t be ACA, AGS or even GIA.

Correct although I''d personally recommend sticking witih H&A diamonds that are accompanied by either GIA or AGS Reports. This way you know that what they grade with regards to clarity/color/polish/symmetry is for the most part going to be consistent. When it comes to examinations beyond lab reports then you need to see what evidence is provided and learn what is to be gained/learned from that supplemental data whether it be via scope images (ASET/Dxray/IdealScope) or digital optical technologies (Bscope/Imagem/Isee2) etc. At the very least to determine if a diamond is a real Hearts & Arrows or not you''d at least want to see (live or via photography) actual H&A patterning.

Would I be right to say though, that an AGS0 would likely be H&A?

Nope.

But a GIA Excellent cut is not necessarily going to exhibit H&A.

Yep. H&A should not be assumed regardless of which lab graded it. I''ve also seen diamonds with inscriptions saying H&A that displayed wonky optical symmetry too. That''s why I recommend some kind of evidence.

Please correct me if I''ve gottent his wrong.

All the best,

 

[Rhino]

Date: 11/11/2008 9:09:47 AM
Author: t-neck
Can a non H&A stone outperform a H&A stone?

Yes it can.

Let''s say GIA EX cut but non H&A look better than AGS0 with H&A.

Yes this is possible. Possible but not probable.

No way to know without a live exam.

Or is it pretty much guarantee AGS0 H&A will be the best looking stone?

Most of the times yes but not all of the time. AGS relies heavily on reflector based technology and ray tracing. While these are good technologies and valuable information to have they are not, in my professional opinion, end all/be all solutions.

All the best,