Female Mccain''s VP pick

[diamondfan]

I am not judging as I have children, though I have sons, not daughters. How really tough must it be to have just had your fifth and your oldest child, still not an adult, is now having her own baby. I think it is tough, and I speak as someone who was in a similar boat at 18. The guy was terrible and abusive and I thought I was in love with him but once I discovered the pregnancy I knew there was no way I could handle it, my father had died not long prior and this guy was not a good guy at all, controlling, manipulative, jealous, abusive (both mentally and physically)...I could not deal with a baby and I had an abortion.

I am pro choice but respect if someone is very against abortion. I made my choice, the one that was right for me. I also feel, if you have teenaged kids, there but for the grace of God...this could happen to ANYONE. Maybe it was because mom was busy elsewhere with her new baby and work, and dad was not as aware...it really at this point does not matter.

And as much as I would be thrilled for a woman VP and President, and I can put this out of my mind in the voting booth, it seems that many people in this country might find that tough, and judge her and want her to stay in Alaska.

I feel for her, this is putting her life under much scrutiny and while I am sure she knew it would, this is a lot to contend with. And her daughter is really getting raked too, and she is just a kid who got pregnant, maybe on purpose but I highly doubt it. Look at Jamie Lynn Spears...there no one was shocked, the mom is a train wreck and the older sister a disaster. Here, it is a bit more surprising to me BUT, biology is biology, babies are made one way and teens are prone to engage in that activity...regardless of their parents wishes to the contrary. It is nature and it happens, and I feel sorry for her as her life has now taken a drastic change of course, which might turn out well but seems to be more likely a tough road.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 9/2/2008 12:55:52 AM

Author: IndyGirl22

I was hoping that with the number of women, particularly mothers, on PS that most could identify with at least one element of Palin''s life, but instead I see criticism, judgment, and laughs

You do not see that from me. I have as much sympathy for Bristol Palin as for my daughter''s unwed, 16 year-old, pregnant friend! What I will not do is listen to Bristol''s mother proselytize against birth control to my teenager, however! I will not be dictated to by the Christian right and when their methods (teaching abstention from sex) fail, it should be noted so that we know what works and what does not!



Deborah

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 9/2/2008 12:55:52 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
I was hoping that with the number of women, particularly mothers, on PS that most could identify with at least one element of Palin''s life, but outside of PS I see criticism, judgment, and laughs about a very serious situation to which I''m sure many PSers can relate. I see a double standard and it bothers me. Due to the reaction I''ve seen from bloggers delving more deeply into her personal life in a couple of DAYS than most politicians get their whole lifetime and others citing concerns about how the family and home will be impacted in the event of her election, I now really don''t think a woman will be President for a long time...

ETA: I''m not meaning to aim this post at anyone in particular...I have just been disappointed in general by the treatment of Palin and her family by the media and bloggers, etc.


I guess I''m in the minority with LAJennifer that I don''t see why her daughter''s pregnancy is supposed to be viewed as such a horrible thing to conservative Republicans that will impact their votes. Even if they don''t agree with it (not their place anyway), they sure as heck aren''t going to vote for Obama and they sure as heck will vote to do their part to make sure Obama doesn''t get elected.

I agree with you. At first I thought they were screwed (they being McCain/Palin), but so far the conservative response has been supportive because in all reality her daughter''s pregnancy has nothing to do with her VP qualifications.

I really regret bringing this up at all in the thread even if it was ongoing already.

Oh well, what''s done is done. I just wish people would drop the story. I am so tired of hearing about it on the news.

 

[luckystar112]

Is it just me or is all of this "Christian Right" talk getting a little offensive? Not all republicans are evangelical christians. Not all of us have a religious agenda. And there is nothing wrong with having religious morals if you do. Mmkay?

Look, abstinence and birth control share a common denominator--and that is acting responsibly. There is no fool-proof method of sexual education that will guarantee your child is not a pregnant teenager. Period.
BOTH methods work when FOLLOWED. The real problem starts when parents feel it is the government''s responsibility to teach their kids about sex. So in a way, I hope Palin remains quiet on the issue of birth control (more than likely she will...)--but at the same time I''m not naive enough to believe that handing out condoms during study hall is going to solve the teen pregnancy "crisis". Condoms were given away at a planned parenthood near my house growing up. All the kids knew about it, and yet we had the highest teen pregnancy rate in the county. So in essence, no "method" is better than the other. It''s about doing what you can to teach your child the right way and HOPING that they will listen to and use the advice.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 9/2/2008 1:44:16 AM

Author: luckystar112

Is it just me or is all of this 'Christian Right' talk getting a little offensive? Not all republicans are evangelical christians.

It is just you. The talk about the the "Christian Right" is not, by any objective standard, becoming offensive. It is a matter of fact, not opinion.

No one has said that all Republicans, or the majority of Republicans, are from the "Christian Right".

Mr. McCain, however, absolutely needs that segment of the population-not just Republicans, but Christians registered in any party or no party who hold conservative (or "right wing") beliefs-if he is to win the general election in November. If you will remember back a few months, he had a great deal of trouble in the Republican primaries because he had not yet won the hearts and minds of this group yet. President Bush tried to help him gain the mantle by calling him, a "true conservative". He picked Ms. Palin as his running mate because she is a bona fide member of the Christian right.



Deborah

 

[miraclesrule]

Personally, I suspect Palin will drop out. I think it is just not worth it to her and her family and the ticket. I know that she is an ambitious woman who is very strong, but I think this is too much baggage and I suspect, she will bow out. Only time will tell.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/2/2008 1:15:16 AM
Author: AGBF

You do not see that from me. I have as much sympathy for Bristol Palin as for my daughter''s unwed, 16 year-old, pregnant friend! What I will not do is listen to Bristol''s mother proselytize against birth control to my teenager, however! I will not be dictated to by the Christian right and when their methods (teaching abstention from sex) fail, it should be noted so that we know what works and what does not!

Deborah

I ETA my post because I knew some PSers might think I was speaking of them...I was really speaking in general that I felt disappointed by the treatment Palin has been getting from other women (not just on PS). IMHO Palin isn''t "proselytizing" to anyone''s child about birth control...I actually haven''t heard her say anything about it thus far to the media, although I don''t doubt that her views are against contraceptives. I think sex education should primarily come from parents or other guardians, so that''s probably a big reason why we differ on this issue. I just don''t trust the government to handle such things. I don''t know what qualifies someone as being from the "Christian right," is that what Palin is considered? I just thought she was a conservative, religious woman; I don''t think being against contraceptives and abortion automatically makes you a member of the "Christian right." With teenage pregnancies still high in many areas of the country I would venture to say that knowing what works is not enough. My friend was on the pill and used a condom when she had sex for the first time...her daughter turned 4 this year.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/2/2008 1:54:31 AM
Author: AGBF

It is just you. The talk about the the ''Christian Right'' is not, by any objective standard, becoming offensive. It is a matter of fact, not opinion.

No one has said that all Republicans, or the majority of Republicans, are from the ''Christian Right''.

Mr. McCain, however, absolutely needs that segment of the population-not just Republicans, but Christians registered in any party or no party who hold conservative (or ''right wing'') beliefs-if he is to win the general election in November. If you will remember back a few months, he had a great deal of trouble in the Republican primaries because he had not yet won the hearts and minds of this group yet. President Bush tried to help him gain the mantle by calling him, a ''true conservative''. He picked Ms. Palin as his running mate because she is a bona fide member of the Christian right.

Deborah

I agree with you that McCain needs to win over as many votes as he can get from more conservative groups, but don''t think he needs to worry about winning over the "ring wing" Republicans now...they would *never* vote for Obama and abortion is a much bigger issue for them than contraceptives. McCain had troubles winning them over during the primaries because there were far more conservative candidates than him (i.e. Huckabee), which were more appealing. Now that McCain is their only option they will vote for him to help make sure Obama doesn''t win.

Again, how is it a "fact" that Palin is a "bona fide member of the Christian right?"

 

[Black Jade]

I''m still looking to see what happens during the debates, but I like McCain''s choice of Palin.
I am a woman, but Clinton was not going to get my vote. I am sick and tired of individuals claiming to representand speak for ''women'' who actually only speak for a few radical feminists who are a minority in this country and badly out of touch with what most women need/want. I believe in the right to same pay for the same work and the right to a decent education for girls but I don''t think that there is a right to kill a baby inside the womb. Science has made it more and more obvious that pregnant women are carrying babies, not ''fetuses''--look at the ultrasound technology we have now. Look at the younger and younger ages of premies who survive. Most people are looking at these things and there is less and less support for abortion ''rights''-- except on the part of older doctrinaire feminists who have latched onto power and aren''t letting go.

I also don''t see why Palin is supposed to be so ''unqualified''. What were Hillary''s qualifications other than that her husband had held office, on the basis of which she got herself elected from New York, where she had never even lived? Palin actually got elected on her own steam, without her husband. She has run a city as mayor, and is a respected Governor. Palin is also more experienced at actually running anything than Obama--who was reduced yesterday on television to claiming that he is experienced because he has run his own campaign! That must be a first.

The whole discussion about Palin''s daughter is a big, fat red herring. First people claim, with no evidence that the daughter is the mother of the Down''s syndrome child. This is just mean-minded gossip on a level that it''s unbelievable that intelligent people would even stoop to. Then, when they find out that the little girl IS pregnant, they begin saying all kinds of ridiculous things. If every mother whose daughter ever got pregnant is a bad mother, there are lot of bad mothers out there. Whose teenage kids do everything according to their parent''s values and never make mistakes? Have people saying this ever had teenagers? And why does one girl who got pregnant mean that abstinence education does not work? Look at statistics. Most kids who get pregnant are using birth control. Some of us believe that sex outside of marriage is risky and would like to encourage our kids not to go that route. Does it make us bad parents not to want them to go through multiple relationships that leave a person emotionally scarred; increased risk for STDs (an epidemic nowadays); trauma of pregancy and worse trauma of abortion and just simply being in a sexual relationship at a time when the brain and emotions are too young to handle it (teenage years)? Abstinence is certainly better when a person is under 18 and remains better at older ages too and should be encouraged. ARe some kids (people) not going to be able to manage it, especially in our society where sex is used to sell everything and pornography is ubiquitous? Yes, of course. BUt the ideal is still a good ideal.
And when people show themselves to be human and make a mistake, then one does exactly what Palin is doing, which is to love them, forgive them and move on to the next step (help with taking care of the baby and putting things back together).
I respect this woman whether she wins the election or not.
Black Jade

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/2/2008 1:16:30 AM
Author: SarahLovesJS

I agree with you. At first I thought they were screwed (they being McCain/Palin), but so far the conservative response has been supportive because in all reality her daughter's pregnancy has nothing to do with her VP qualifications.

I really regret bringing this up at all in the thread even if it was ongoing already.

Oh well, what's done is done. I just wish people would drop the story. I am so tired of hearing about it on the news.

Yeah, I've actually heard/read the most hateful things aimed at Palin, her daughter, and her entire family (including her newborn!) coming from Dems (again, not on PS)...and nothing but support from Republicans. I think it's funny how members of the "liberal" party are the ones who seem to have the biggest problem with Palin's daughter's pregnancy and some Dems are trying to strike up some sort of anger and rage from conservative Republicans. Teaching your children the difference between right and wrong (whatever you believe that to be) does not guarantee anything...I think Palin is a mother just doing the best she can within her own belief system, like so many around here.

I like Obama's stance on the issue, especially since he was born to an 18 year old unwed mother himself...good things do come from "mistakes."

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 9/2/2008 9:27:32 AM
Author: Black Jade
I''m still looking to see what happens during the debates, but I like McCain''s choice of Palin.

I am a woman, but Clinton was not going to get my vote. I am sick and tired of individuals claiming to representand speak for ''women'' who actually only speak for a few radical feminists who are a minority in this country and badly out of touch with what most women need/want. I believe in the right to same pay for the same work and the right to a decent education for girls but I don''t think that there is a right to kill a baby inside the womb. Science has made it more and more obvious that pregnant women are carrying babies, not ''fetuses''--look at the ultrasound technology we have now. Look at the younger and younger ages of premies who survive. Most people are looking at these things and there is less and less support for abortion ''rights''-- except on the part of older doctrinaire feminists who have latched onto power and aren''t letting go.


I also don''t see why Palin is supposed to be so ''unqualified''. What were Hillary''s qualifications other than that her husband had held office, on the basis of which she got herself elected from New York, where she had never even lived? Palin actually got elected on her own steam, without her husband. She has run a city as mayor, and is a respected Governor. Palin is also more experienced at actually running anything than Obama--who was reduced yesterday on television to claiming that he is experienced because he has run his own campaign! That must be a first.


The whole discussion about Palin''s daughter is a big, fat red herring. First people claim, with no evidence that the daughter is the mother of the Down''s syndrome child. This is just mean-minded gossip on a level that it''s unbelievable that intelligent people would even stoop to. Then, when they find out that the little girl IS pregnant, they begin saying all kinds of ridiculous things. If every mother whose daughter ever got pregnant is a bad mother, there are lot of bad mothers out there. Whose teenage kids do everything according to their parent''s values and never make mistakes? Have people saying this ever had teenagers? And why does one girl who got pregnant mean that abstinence education does not work? Look at statistics. Most kids who get pregnant are using birth control. Some of us believe that sex outside of marriage is risky and would like to encourage our kids not to go that route. Does it make us bad parents not to want them to go through multiple relationships that leave a person emotionally scarred; increased risk for STDs (an epidemic nowadays); trauma of pregancy and worse trauma of abortion and just simply being in a sexual relationship at a time when the brain and emotions are too young to handle it (teenage years)? Abstinence is certainly better when a person is under 18 and remains better at older ages too and should be encouraged. ARe some kids (people) not going to be able to manage it, especially in our society where sex is used to sell everything and pornography is ubiquitous? Yes, of course. BUt the ideal is still a good ideal.

And when people show themselves to be human and make a mistake, then one does exactly what Palin is doing, which is to love them, forgive them and move on to the next step (help with taking care of the baby and putting things back together).

I respect this woman whether she wins the election or not.

Black Jade

What statistics state that most teens who get pregnant are using birth control? And what information do you have that points to the idea that abortion is more traumatic than teen pregnancy?

The fact that the "one girl" who got pregnant''s mother is running for vice president and is a proponent of abstinence-only sex "education" points to the idiocy of advocating abstinence and refusing to even educate teenagers on how to have sex if they''re going to.

Furthermore, I''ve seen no evidence that suggests teen sex is unhealthy and/or scarring. In many countries in Europe it is common and accepted that teenagers are going to experiment with each other, and something tells me Europeans are a lot less "scarred" than Americans when it comes to sex.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 9/2/2008 9:47:57 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/2/2008 1:16:30 AM
Author: SarahLovesJS

I agree with you. At first I thought they were screwed (they being McCain/Palin), but so far the conservative response has been supportive because in all reality her daughter''s pregnancy has nothing to do with her VP qualifications.

I really regret bringing this up at all in the thread even if it was ongoing already.

Oh well, what''s done is done. I just wish people would drop the story. I am so tired of hearing about it on the news.

Yeah, I''ve actually heard/read the most hateful things aimed at Palin, her daughter, and her entire family (including her newborn!) coming from Dems (again, not on PS)...and nothing but support from Republicans. I think it''s funny how members of the ''liberal'' party are the ones who seem to have the biggest problem with Palin''s daughter''s pregnancy and some Dems are trying to strike up some sort of anger and rage from conservative Republicans. Teaching your children the difference between right and wrong (whatever you believe that to be) does not guarantee anything...I think Palin is a mother just doing the best she can within her own belief system, like so many around here.

I like Obama''s stance on the issue, especially since he was born to an 18 year old unwed mother himself...good things do come from ''mistakes.''

Obviously teenage pregnancy is something that affects many families--rich or poor, classy and trashy, dem. or repub., all races, all types...it happens. My 17-year-old niece is in the same position. She talked openly about it at Thanksgiving and she said that all of her friends were sexually active, she''s just the one who got pregnant and decided to keep it.

I agree that Palin''s daughter should not be in the limelight and while I''m a tad bit worried she might back out of the nomination for her daughter''s sake, I hope she doesn''t.

Anyway, I think it would be very unwise for the Dems to use Palin''s daughter''s prengancy against the republican party because it''s something that happens regardless of political affiliation and it could turn off some on-the-fence voters.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/2/2008 9:55:33 AM
Author: thing2of2

What statistics state that most teens who get pregnant are using birth control? And what information do you have that points to the idea that abortion is more traumatic than teen pregnancy?

The fact that the 'one girl' who got pregnant's mother is running for vice president and is a proponent of abstinence-only sex 'education' points to the idiocy of advocating abstinence and refusing to even educate teenagers on how to have sex if they're going to.

Furthermore, I've seen no evidence that suggests teen sex is unhealthy and/or scarring. In many countries in Europe it is common and accepted that teenagers are going to experiment with each other, and something tells me Europeans are a lot less 'scarred' than Americans when it comes to sex.

We don't know if Palin's daughter used contraceptives...she certainly didn't use abstinence, so maybe she did. There are several parents who teach their children about contraceptives but just don't want it taught to them at school by state employees...for that reason I wouldn't lump everyone who is against teaching about contraceptives in schools as supporting "idiocy." I guess it would depend on the particular program taught in the school if I would support contraceptive education there...IMHO it should be taught that the "BEST" method is abstinence as a result of self-esteem and control.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 9/2/2008 9:27:32 AM
Author: Black Jade
I''m still looking to see what happens during the debates, but I like McCain''s choice of Palin.
I am a woman, but Clinton was not going to get my vote. I am sick and tired of individuals claiming to representand speak for ''women'' who actually only speak for a few radical feminists who are a minority in this country and badly out of touch with what most women need/want. I believe in the right to same pay for the same work and the right to a decent education for girls but I don''t think that there is a right to kill a baby inside the womb. Science has made it more and more obvious that pregnant women are carrying babies, not ''fetuses''--look at the ultrasound technology we have now. Look at the younger and younger ages of premies who survive. Most people are looking at these things and there is less and less support for abortion ''rights''-- except on the part of older doctrinaire feminists who have latched onto power and aren''t letting go.

I also don''t see why Palin is supposed to be so ''unqualified''. What were Hillary''s qualifications other than that her husband had held office, on the basis of which she got herself elected from New York, where she had never even lived? Palin actually got elected on her own steam, without her husband. She has run a city as mayor, and is a respected Governor. Palin is also more experienced at actually running anything than Obama--who was reduced yesterday on television to claiming that he is experienced because he has run his own campaign! That must be a first.

The whole discussion about Palin''s daughter is a big, fat red herring. First people claim, with no evidence that the daughter is the mother of the Down''s syndrome child. This is just mean-minded gossip on a level that it''s unbelievable that intelligent people would even stoop to. Then, when they find out that the little girl IS pregnant, they begin saying all kinds of ridiculous things. If every mother whose daughter ever got pregnant is a bad mother, there are lot of bad mothers out there. Whose teenage kids do everything according to their parent''s values and never make mistakes? Have people saying this ever had teenagers? And why does one girl who got pregnant mean that abstinence education does not work? Look at statistics. Most kids who get pregnant are using birth control. Some of us believe that sex outside of marriage is risky and would like to encourage our kids not to go that route. Does it make us bad parents not to want them to go through multiple relationships that leave a person emotionally scarred; increased risk for STDs (an epidemic nowadays); trauma of pregancy and worse trauma of abortion and just simply being in a sexual relationship at a time when the brain and emotions are too young to handle it (teenage years)? Abstinence is certainly better when a person is under 18 and remains better at older ages too and should be encouraged. ARe some kids (people) not going to be able to manage it, especially in our society where sex is used to sell everything and pornography is ubiquitous? Yes, of course. BUt the ideal is still a good ideal.
And when people show themselves to be human and make a mistake, then one does exactly what Palin is doing, which is to love them, forgive them and move on to the next step (help with taking care of the baby and putting things back together).
I respect this woman whether she wins the election or not.
Black Jade

Why? Maybe because she didn''t.....abstain?? (said somewhat TIC: Palin''s daughter alone proves or disproves nothing, I realize) And given that there are teens having sex with birth control and teens having sex without birth control (at least according to the CDC) I''m having a really hard time thinking that those using it have a higher pregancy rate than those who don''t. Please direct me to the statistics of which you speak. I truly would like to see them and who is putting them out.

You know, encouraging abstinence at least until a person is old enough to handle the consequences should they NOT abstain, I don''t think anyone would argue with. What most of those who have a problem with abstinence education have the major problem with is 1) it being taught as the only way, 2) in conjuction with denying our teens the information they need to protect themselves, and/or 3) in conjuction with misinformation - as in trashing or downplaying info about the true effectiveness of the various BC methods - which can be extremely effective when used properly. Ideals are great, but ideals without a pragmatic acknowledgement that ideals are never actually achieved, is just plain stupid. And denying children information in the name of anything, does not honor them or improve their critical thinking skills. Like all humans, appealing to their self-interest is much more effective than simply telling them that God will be displeased. Treating kids like they''re stupid usually results in them living down to your expectations.

The following article is about a study, very recent (I couldn''t seem to get to it - it was taking a long time, and it may be subscription, so I found this instead, that references the study - which is noted at the CDC, but is not linked there quite yet) that pretty much shows abstinence only programs for the failure they are.

WASHINGTON, March 26 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Adolescents receiving
comprehensive sex education had a substantially lower risk of teenage
pregnancy than students who received either abstinence-only education or no
education at all, according to a new, groundbreaking study published in the
Journal of Adolescent Health.
The study, conducted by Pamela K. Kohler, M.P.H., Lisa E. Manhart, Ph.D., and
William E. Lafferty, M.D., also concluded that teaching about contraception
did not increase sexual activity or sexually transmitted diseases.
"The sexual health statistics in America are alarming," said Debra Hauser,
executive vice president of Advocates for Youth. "We know that 1 in 4 teen
girls have a sexually transmitted disease, that the HIV rate among African
American young men who have sex with men has increased by 80 percent, and that
the teen birth rate has increased for the first time in fourteen years."
"We must, absolutely must, stop censoring sexual health information about
contraception and condoms and start investing in programs that we know work,"
concluded Hauser. "The blame for these negative health statistics rests
squarely with this Administration''s push for ineffective
abstinence-only-until-marriage programs."

for more go to: http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS161944+26-Mar-2008+PRN20080326

I found this one interesting too: Study Says Sexually Active Teens Using Birth Control Less Often

And just a bit of musing here, I wonder, as everyone rushes to make excuses and be supportive, how quick those same people would be to forgive her her transgression, or to excuse the parent if she was the daughter of a single black mother...

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 9/1/2008 1:38:44 PM
Author: EBree

Date: 9/1/2008 1:36:49 PM
Author: iluvcarats

I think it means that teaching abstinence in schools probably doesn''t work.

I agree- and who better to illustrate this but a teenager from a very conservative family?

Teenagers will do as they please, and it''s best that they''re taught to be safe, above all else.

DITTO!!! I grew up in a very liberal part of NY in the early 90s, where we had sex ed (with birth control taught) starting in 7th grade. NONE of the firls in my high school of 1,000 people EVER walked around the halls with a pregnant baby, or left school to have a baby. Granted, we were an upper-middle class neighborhood, but there was ZERO teen pregnancy in our community. I attribute this mostly to the fact condoms were given out for free at our school, and we saw a demonstration on how to use them properly. I think the more sex education that you have, the less teen pregnancy you have. And, I think that for the most part, children are NOT getting good information from their parents, so the schools need to fill in the blanks.

Now, is there a possibility that some girls got pregnant and had abortions? Probably - but I would much rather see a child not born at all, than born to a teenage parent, who will probably turn out to be, at best, incompetent & unable to financially provide for the child, and at worst, abusive and neglectful.

Bristol Palin''s pregnancy is proof that:
1) abstinence only education is completely ineffective
2) her parents obviously didn''t do a good job of teaching her how to protect herself in a sexually active relationship
3) the Christian right is totally clueless when it comes to teenage sexuality - tennagers are going to have sex, whether you want them to or not, so unless you want a bunch of teenage girls to end up on the welfare rolls, and ruining their own and their childrens'' lives, you must teach them about birth control
4) this also proves my earlier point about Sara Palin''s mothering skills - a mother can''t take good care of a 4 month old special-needs infant on the campaign trail or in the White House - she''s obviously not effectively parenting her older children either - I wouldn''t normally judge her, but isn''t the Republican party supposed to be the "family values" party? Palin is failing on several counts.

I do however, find this situation amusing from a political viewpoint. It''s total BS that McCain knew about Bristol''s pregnancy (none of his aides can identify the specific day that he was informed of it) - I wonder how badly he''s kicking himself right now

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 9/1/2008 4:22:28 PM
Author: Beacon
I am disposed to like Sarah Palin but I am really concerned about the picture that is emerging.

Though it sounds cliche, it looks to me that she should be spending more time with her family. How can a person be VP when they have a newborn with Down''s and teenage pregnancies emerging? Doesn''t this require some parental attention? I think as an elected executive these family matters will be a distraction.

I was turned off by the photos of her with a hunting rifle and I find her appearance so non Presidential.

I have to study her record more but I am not thrilled so far by the personal things I see.

I am no Obama supporter either - I am a Republican. (and totally disappointed with George Bush). Either way, this election is going to be quite something. My guess is Obama wins it. Very interesting though!

Great points, Beacon!

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 9/1/2008 7:48:40 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 9/1/2008 7:40:59 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/1/2008 7:33:29 PM

Author: thing2of2

Such an interesting situation! I love seeing how Republicans and evangelicals are responding to the news about Palin''s daughter being preggo. I think the party line is ''At least she''s keeping the baby!'' Come on...the vast majority of Christian religions teach that it is a sin to have premarital sex. But now all that matters is she''s not getting an abortion? Hilarious.

I see what you''re saying but at this point in time, after abstinence and/or birth control (we don''t know if it was used or not) have failed, what else would someone say about the situation? The best part about sins is that they can be forgiven (not trying to make this into a religion violation of PS, just speculating as to why I don''t think conservatives/Republicans will have a problem with Palin''s daughter''s pregnancy).

An abortion would''ve just added to the ''sin'' so I don''t see a different way to react to the news than to get over the premarital sex part and move onto the keeping it/adoption/abortion decision.

Yes, but the fact that Palin, who is a proponent of abstinence only education, now has a pregnant teenage daughter speaks volumes about the silliness of teaching religion (abstinence only) instead of science (birth control) to teenagers.

I''m not condemning the girl for her ''sins'' at all. I just think it''s a pretty interesting situation for Palin to be in. I''m guessing she''ll stick with the party line and say she''s still for abstinence only education, but who knows. Maybe she can move away from the party line since this most likely could have been prevented if she had an educated teenager with access to birth control.

Word, thing2of2.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/2/2008 11:27:00 AM
Author: vespergirl

Now, is there a possibility that some girls got pregnant and had abortions? Probably - but I would much rather see a child not born at all, than born to a teenage parent, who will probably turn out to be, at best, incompetent & unable to financially provide for the child, and at worst, abusive and neglectful.
Bristol Palin's pregnancy is proof that:
1) abstinence only education is completely ineffective
2) her parents obviously didn't do a good job of teaching her how to protect herself in a sexually active relationship
3) the Christian right is totally clueless when it comes to teenage sexuality - tennagers are going to have sex, whether you want them to or not, so unless you want a bunch of teenage girls to end up on the welfare rolls, and ruining their own and their childrens' lives, you must teach them about birth control
4) this also proves my earlier point about Sara Palin's mothering skills - a mother can't take good care of a 4 month old special-needs infant on the campaign trail or in the White House - she's obviously not effectively parenting her older children either - I wouldn't normally judge her, but isn't the Republican party supposed to be the 'family values' party? Palin is failing on several counts.

I guess we're lucky that Obama's mother didn't have an abortion even though she was incompetent at best...

Wow...

Parents can do EVERYTHING right and have this happen to them. It is not only ineffective or bad parents. I guess no women with children will ever be considered a viable candidate for VP or President because they obviously aren't able to be both good mothers and politicians.

Anyway, I say *who cares* if she IS a bad mother?! Do we kick men out of the White House for being bad husbands/fathers? No. Her ability or inability as a mother has no bearing on her political ability, just like Clinton's several indiscretions against Hillary had no bearing on his ability as a president (until he lied to the American public about it) IMHO.

I think it's funny that the most liberal women seem to be the ones criticizing Palin for her PERSONAL beliefs...just because contraceptives and abortion are there does not mean that anyone who does not believe in them are somehow bad parents...quite a jump in reasoning there.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 9/2/2008 9:27:32 AM
Author: Black Jade
I''m still looking to see what happens during the debates, but I like McCain''s choice of Palin.
I am a woman, but Clinton was not going to get my vote. I am sick and tired of individuals claiming to representand speak for ''women'' who actually only speak for a few radical feminists who are a minority in this country and badly out of touch with what most women need/want. I believe in the right to same pay for the same work and the right to a decent education for girls but I don''t think that there is a right to kill a baby inside the womb. Science has made it more and more obvious that pregnant women are carrying babies, not ''fetuses''--look at the ultrasound technology we have now. Look at the younger and younger ages of premies who survive. Most people are looking at these things and there is less and less support for abortion ''rights''-- except on the part of older doctrinaire feminists who have latched onto power and aren''t letting go.

I also don''t see why Palin is supposed to be so ''unqualified''. What were Hillary''s qualifications other than that her husband had held office, on the basis of which she got herself elected from New York, where she had never even lived? Palin actually got elected on her own steam, without her husband. She has run a city as mayor, and is a respected Governor. Palin is also more experienced at actually running anything than Obama--who was reduced yesterday on television to claiming that he is experienced because he has run his own campaign! That must be a first.

The whole discussion about Palin''s daughter is a big, fat red herring. First people claim, with no evidence that the daughter is the mother of the Down''s syndrome child. This is just mean-minded gossip on a level that it''s unbelievable that intelligent people would even stoop to. Then, when they find out that the little girl IS pregnant, they begin saying all kinds of ridiculous things. If every mother whose daughter ever got pregnant is a bad mother, there are lot of bad mothers out there. Whose teenage kids do everything according to their parent''s values and never make mistakes? Have people saying this ever had teenagers? And why does one girl who got pregnant mean that abstinence education does not work? Look at statistics. Most kids who get pregnant are using birth control. Some of us believe that sex outside of marriage is risky and would like to encourage our kids not to go that route. Does it make us bad parents not to want them to go through multiple relationships that leave a person emotionally scarred; increased risk for STDs (an epidemic nowadays); trauma of pregancy and worse trauma of abortion and just simply being in a sexual relationship at a time when the brain and emotions are too young to handle it (teenage years)? Abstinence is certainly better when a person is under 18 and remains better at older ages too and should be encouraged. ARe some kids (people) not going to be able to manage it, especially in our society where sex is used to sell everything and pornography is ubiquitous? Yes, of course. BUt the ideal is still a good ideal.
And when people show themselves to be human and make a mistake, then one does exactly what Palin is doing, which is to love them, forgive them and move on to the next step (help with taking care of the baby and putting things back together).
I respect this woman whether she wins the election or not.
Black Jade

I just wanted to clarify some of your statistics - it''s been proven that STD and teen pregnancy rates are far higher (and rising) in areas with "abstinence only" education as opposed to science-based sex education.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 9/2/2008 11:42:15 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/2/2008 11:27:00 AM
Author: vespergirl

Now, is there a possibility that some girls got pregnant and had abortions? Probably - but I would much rather see a child not born at all, than born to a teenage parent, who will probably turn out to be, at best, incompetent & unable to financially provide for the child, and at worst, abusive and neglectful.
Bristol Palin''s pregnancy is proof that:
1) abstinence only education is completely ineffective
2) her parents obviously didn''t do a good job of teaching her how to protect herself in a sexually active relationship
3) the Christian right is totally clueless when it comes to teenage sexuality - tennagers are going to have sex, whether you want them to or not, so unless you want a bunch of teenage girls to end up on the welfare rolls, and ruining their own and their childrens'' lives, you must teach them about birth control
4) this also proves my earlier point about Sara Palin''s mothering skills - a mother can''t take good care of a 4 month old special-needs infant on the campaign trail or in the White House - she''s obviously not effectively parenting her older children either - I wouldn''t normally judge her, but isn''t the Republican party supposed to be the ''family values'' party? Palin is failing on several counts.

I guess we''re lucky that Obama''s mother didn''t have an abortion even though she was incompetent at best...

Wow...

Parents can do EVERYTHING right and have this happen to them. It is not only ineffective or bad parents. I guess no women with children will ever be considered a viable candidate for VP or President because they obviously aren''t able to be both good mothers and politicians.

Anyway, I say *who cares* if she IS a bad mother?! Do we kick men out of the White House for being bad husbands/fathers? No. Her ability or inability as a mother has no bearing on her political ability, just like Clinton''s several indiscretions against Hillary had no bearing on his ability as a president (until he lied to the American public about it) IMHO.

I think it''s funny that the most liberal women seem to be the ones criticizing Palin for her PERSONAL beliefs...just because contraceptives and abortion are there does not mean that anyone who does not believe in them are somehow bad parents...quite a jump in reasoning there.

Like I stated above, I wouldn''t normally judge her, but I''m not the one who''s running for office on a "family values" platform.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/2/2008 11:47:59 AM
Author: vespergirl

Date: 9/2/2008 11:42:15 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

I guess we''re lucky that Obama''s mother didn''t have an abortion even though she was incompetent at best...

Wow...

Parents can do EVERYTHING right and have this happen to them. It is not only ineffective or bad parents. I guess no women with children will ever be considered a viable candidate for VP or President because they obviously aren''t able to be both good mothers and politicians.

Anyway, I say *who cares* if she IS a bad mother?! Do we kick men out of the White House for being bad husbands/fathers? No. Her ability or inability as a mother has no bearing on her political ability, just like Clinton''s several indiscretions against Hillary had no bearing on his ability as a president (until he lied to the American public about it) IMHO.

I think it''s funny that the most liberal women seem to be the ones criticizing Palin for her PERSONAL beliefs...just because contraceptives and abortion are there does not mean that anyone who does not believe in them are somehow bad parents...quite a jump in reasoning there.

Like I stated above, I wouldn''t normally judge her, but I''m not the one who''s running for office on a ''family values'' platform.

Maybe some consider the fact that she is keeping the baby instead of aborting it (who knows, it might be the future President of the United States

) as having "family values." The concept is so vague everyone has their own definition. Her family''s support in this tough situation shows "family values" to me, I know of two girls who became pregnant in college and had abortions because their family did not support them and they were told to get an abortion or else, so I''m glad that the Palins are sticking by their daughter...it''s a matter of personal opinion of what constitutes "family values" and I think togetherness and support in trying times are paramount to anything that may go wrong.

 

[diamondfan]

No one who has teen aged kids can point any fingers. Teens get pregnant, whether they used birth control or not pregnancy can occur. Kids do their own thing often times, even if they know their parents do not approve. I cannot assume that Sarah Palin''s mothering was suspect here. Teen girls get pregnant for a variety of reasons. I am not saying she should or should not run for VP, only she knows that. But her daughter getting pregnant, while tough timing generally and not what I am sure anyone wanted, does not presume she is a rotten or neglectful mother. (but again, I am not saying she is or is not available to her family due to her political career).

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 9/2/2008 1:13:03 AM
Author: diamondfan
I am not judging as I have children, though I have sons, not daughters. How really tough must it be to have just had your fifth and your oldest child, still not an adult, is now having her own baby. I think it is tough, and I speak as someone who was in a similar boat at 18. The guy was terrible and abusive and I thought I was in love with him but once I discovered the pregnancy I knew there was no way I could handle it, my father had died not long prior and this guy was not a good guy at all, controlling, manipulative, jealous, abusive (both mentally and physically)...I could not deal with a baby and I had an abortion.

I am pro choice but respect if someone is very against abortion. I made my choice, the one that was right for me. I also feel, if you have teenaged kids, there but for the grace of God...this could happen to ANYONE. Maybe it was because mom was busy elsewhere with her new baby and work, and dad was not as aware...it really at this point does not matter.

And as much as I would be thrilled for a woman VP and President, and I can put this out of my mind in the voting booth, it seems that many people in this country might find that tough, and judge her and want her to stay in Alaska.

I feel for her, this is putting her life under much scrutiny and while I am sure she knew it would, this is a lot to contend with. And her daughter is really getting raked too, and she is just a kid who got pregnant, maybe on purpose but I highly doubt it. Look at Jamie Lynn Spears...there no one was shocked, the mom is a train wreck and the older sister a disaster. Here, it is a bit more surprising to me BUT, biology is biology, babies are made one way and teens are prone to engage in that activity...regardless of their parents wishes to the contrary. It is nature and it happens, and I feel sorry for her as her life has now taken a drastic change of course, which might turn out well but seems to be more likely a tough road.

Diamondfan, I just wanted to thank you for sharing your story - you sound like a remarkably courageous person, and I have a lot of respect for the decisions you made.

 

[purrfectpear]

I don''t have any issues with the fact that her daughter became pregnant at 16. These things happen. They happen even in families who have parents who preach abstinence and claim a moral high ground. Anyone who thinks they have complete control over their teens is dreaming.

I do have an issue with how she chose to handle it. She lied. I repeat, she lied. She removed her daughter from school, and claimed that the child had mono. Mono does not take 6 months to recover from. What modern parent lies about their daughter''s pregnancy in 2008? She wasn''t protecting the girl from public shame, she was protecting her OWN political agenda. I find that pretty reprehensible. Then as soon as she needed to deflect the nasty rumors regarding herself, she threw her daughter under the bus.

How many of the PS moms would have accepted a high profile job that would require them to travel 50% of the time, subject their entire family to extreme media scrutiny, would be on call literally 24/7 with NO DAYS OFF, while they had a newborn with Down''s syndrome, 4 other children at home, including a pregnant 17 year old.

Seriously, how many? Any of you? Even the most ambitious of you? If someone came on PS and described these conditions and asked if they should take the job, I think they would be advised to consider the damage to their kids. Maybe you disagree?

In Palin''s case, I think she made a poor choice to accept the nomination. I do think there is room for a woman as VP or POTUS, just not this one.

 

[joflier]

Date: 9/2/2008 2:12:24 AM
Author: miraclesrule
Personally, I suspect Palin will drop out. I think it is just not worth it to her and her family and the ticket. I know that she is an ambitious woman who is very strong, but I think this is too much baggage and I suspect, she will bow out. Only time will tell.

I doubt it. First, to not put her family in the limelight, well......its a little late for that. And really, I think they as a family thought through this before she accepted. They knew for the most part what they were getting into and how vicious this could get. They''ve had time to consider all the options as far as Sarah''s political career vs. family life, including what this means for Bristol. Although I think it would have been smarter to announce the daughter''s pregnancy right away....but I''m sure there was probably some political strategy behind waiting.

 

[joflier]

Date: 9/2/2008 12:16:40 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I don''t have any issues with the fact that her daughter became pregnant at 16. These things happen. They happen even in families who have parents who preach abstinence and claim a moral high ground. Anyone who thinks they have complete control over their teens is dreaming.

I do have an issue with how she chose to handle it. She lied. I repeat, she lied. She removed her daughter from school, and claimed that the child had mono. Mono does not take 6 months to recover from. What modern parent lies about their daughter''s pregnancy in 2008? She wasn''t protecting the girl from public shame, she was protecting her OWN political agenda. I find that pretty reprehensible. Then as soon as she needed to deflect the nasty rumors regarding herself, she threw her daughter under the bus.

How many of the PS moms would have accepted a high profile job that would require them to travel 50% of the time, subject their entire family to extreme media scrutiny, would be on call literally 24/7 with NO DAYS OFF, while they had a newborn with Down''s syndrome, 4 other children at home, including a pregnant 17 year old.

Seriously, how many? Any of you? Even the most ambitious of you? If someone came on PS and described these conditions and asked if they should take the job, I think they would be advised to consider the damage to their kids. Maybe you disagree?

In Palin''s case, I think she made a poor choice to accept the nomination. I do think there is room for a woman as VP or POTUS, just not this one.

I didn''t go back and reread the article, but didn''t it say that the daughter missed 8 months for mono, leading up to Trig''s birth? Trig was born in April, which would mean she was out of school since probably last October. She''s only been pregnant for 5 months - meaning April - when Trig was born, so I don''t think there''s a correlation with the mono cover up.......She wasn''t pregnant then!

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/2/2008 12:16:40 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I don''t have any issues with the fact that her daughter became pregnant at 16. These things happen. They happen even in families who have parents who preach abstinence and claim a moral high ground. Anyone who thinks they have complete control over their teens is dreaming.

I do have an issue with how she chose to handle it. She lied. I repeat, she lied. She removed her daughter from school, and claimed that the child had mono. Mono does not take 6 months to recover from. What modern parent lies about their daughter''s pregnancy in 2008? She wasn''t protecting the girl from public shame, she was protecting her OWN political agenda. I find that pretty reprehensible. Then as soon as she needed to deflect the nasty rumors regarding herself, she threw her daughter under the bus.

How many of the PS moms would have accepted a high profile job that would require them to travel 50% of the time, subject their entire family to extreme media scrutiny, would be on call literally 24/7 with NO DAYS OFF, while they had a newborn with Down''s syndrome, 4 other children at home, including a pregnant 17 year old.

Seriously, how many? Any of you? Even the most ambitious of you? If someone came on PS and described these conditions and asked if they should take the job, I think they would be advised to consider the damage to their kids. Maybe you disagree?

In Palin''s case, I think she made a poor choice to accept the nomination. I do think there is room for a woman as VP or POTUS, just not this one.

I don''t think the story of her being the mother of her brother (ack) is true...and I have known people who have taken a very long time (months) to completely recover from mono, although I am not a doctor. I don''t think she lied about her son Trig. She has not lied about her daughter''s current pregnancy (5 months, which would make giving birth in April to Trig impossible), so I guess I''m just confused about that part of your post. I also don''t think her telling the media that her daughter was pregnant was throwing her "under the bus." With the way the media hounds and bloggers jumped all over the Trig rumor it would''ve been a matter of time before they found out about her real pregnancy and Palin would be accused of covering it up so it was better to come from her instead of everyone speculating and posting pictures of her daughter online and pointing out her weight gain (like they already have) .

It is true that many PSers would probably turn down a job like the one you mentioned, but this isn''t just a "high profile job," it is Vice President of the United States! That is HUGE and I personally would definitely take it if I felt like I could do a good job. If her husband is going to be a full-time SATD I don''t see a problem there. I''m sure male candidates with SAHM wives don''t have these questions posed to them. I think the attenion paid to her home life has really sent the message that several Americans, even those in support of a female leader, will never separate a woman''s home life from her political life; very discouraging.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 9/2/2008 12:09:07 PM
Author: vespergirl

Date: 9/2/2008 1:13:03 AM
Author: diamondfan
I am not judging as I have children, though I have sons, not daughters. How really tough must it be to have just had your fifth and your oldest child, still not an adult, is now having her own baby. I think it is tough, and I speak as someone who was in a similar boat at 18. The guy was terrible and abusive and I thought I was in love with him but once I discovered the pregnancy I knew there was no way I could handle it, my father had died not long prior and this guy was not a good guy at all, controlling, manipulative, jealous, abusive (both mentally and physically)...I could not deal with a baby and I had an abortion.

I am pro choice but respect if someone is very against abortion. I made my choice, the one that was right for me. I also feel, if you have teenaged kids, there but for the grace of God...this could happen to ANYONE. Maybe it was because mom was busy elsewhere with her new baby and work, and dad was not as aware...it really at this point does not matter.

And as much as I would be thrilled for a woman VP and President, and I can put this out of my mind in the voting booth, it seems that many people in this country might find that tough, and judge her and want her to stay in Alaska.

I feel for her, this is putting her life under much scrutiny and while I am sure she knew it would, this is a lot to contend with. And her daughter is really getting raked too, and she is just a kid who got pregnant, maybe on purpose but I highly doubt it. Look at Jamie Lynn Spears...there no one was shocked, the mom is a train wreck and the older sister a disaster. Here, it is a bit more surprising to me BUT, biology is biology, babies are made one way and teens are prone to engage in that activity...regardless of their parents wishes to the contrary. It is nature and it happens, and I feel sorry for her as her life has now taken a drastic change of course, which might turn out well but seems to be more likely a tough road.

Diamondfan, I just wanted to thank you for sharing your story - you sound like a remarkably courageous person, and I have a lot of respect for the decisions you made.

Ah...careful you don't take that "respect" too far then, because there are plenty who just read your admission of an abortion and are silently considering you an unrepentant murderer of the unborn. I am NOT one of them I hasten to assure you, but don't ever think for a moment that those people would have in a heartbeat if they could, deprived you of the ability to make the choice you did. And that is the ultimate goal of all these "policies", to deprive you of the right to make the "choice that was right for you". In this I am clearly one of the "older doctrinaire" feminists, apparently. I certainly identify more with my mother's generation in this, than the younger ones after me. I was 10 and remember when abortion was legalized, (and I read a lot, and way beyond my level, even then) so not long after I was reading details of women who actually had the illegal abortions. There's a reason women, and many MD's who saw the results daily of botched abortions, fought so hard for this right. I see all this - the unwillingness to properly educate our children, the approval of pharmacists refusing to dispense contraceptives (like they don't have many other uses), based on religious grounds, as more nails in the coffin of what may end up being a brief period of relative freedom for women in this country. Time and history will tell. I certainly don't take any of this for granted, unlike many of our younger women who not only never fought the fight, but never even saw the battles waged. I hope they don't give it all away, what their mothers fought for...

Hmm....maybe I should dust off the old Gloria Steinem and Mary Daly tomes and get myself back into my youth.... of course burning my bra at this age could have tragic implications for my knees.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 9/2/2008 12:23:31 PM
Author: joflier

Date: 9/2/2008 12:16:40 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I don''t have any issues with the fact that her daughter became pregnant at 16. These things happen. They happen even in families who have parents who preach abstinence and claim a moral high ground. Anyone who thinks they have complete control over their teens is dreaming.

I do have an issue with how she chose to handle it. She lied. I repeat, she lied. She removed her daughter from school, and claimed that the child had mono. Mono does not take 6 months to recover from. What modern parent lies about their daughter''s pregnancy in 2008? She wasn''t protecting the girl from public shame, she was protecting her OWN political agenda. I find that pretty reprehensible. Then as soon as she needed to deflect the nasty rumors regarding herself, she threw her daughter under the bus.

How many of the PS moms would have accepted a high profile job that would require them to travel 50% of the time, subject their entire family to extreme media scrutiny, would be on call literally 24/7 with NO DAYS OFF, while they had a newborn with Down''s syndrome, 4 other children at home, including a pregnant 17 year old.

Seriously, how many? Any of you? Even the most ambitious of you? If someone came on PS and described these conditions and asked if they should take the job, I think they would be advised to consider the damage to their kids. Maybe you disagree?

In Palin''s case, I think she made a poor choice to accept the nomination. I do think there is room for a woman as VP or POTUS, just not this one.

I didn''t go back and reread the article, but didn''t it say that the daughter missed 8 months for mono, leading up to Trig''s birth? Trig was born in April, which would mean she was out of school since probably last October. She''s only been pregnant for 5 months - meaning April - when Trig was born, so I don''t think there''s a correlation with the mono cover up.......She wasn''t pregnant then!

Agreed, she was out for mono before she was pregnant, they didn''t happen at the same time.

I still find that "she''s a mother, she shouldn''t be working in a demanding position" argument to be...well...sexist. Certainly in my household it is my husband who will be staying home with the kids, and I''m not even a "career" woman--in fact, my husband has always made significantly more than I do. It''s just what works for us. Most of my female bosses have husband who stay at home with their kids in some capacity. Even my husband''s former boss was working remotely until and hour before her scheduled c-section (with 4th child) and was back at work LATER that day. Fortunately, moms don''t have to JUST be moms. And as everybody else has stated, if it were a man in the same position, nobody would blink an eye.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 9/2/2008 11:27:00 AM
Author: vespergirl

Date: 9/1/2008 1:38:44 PM

Author: EBree

Date: 9/1/2008 1:36:49 PM

Author: iluvcarats


I think it means that teaching abstinence in schools probably doesn''t work.

I agree- and who better to illustrate this but a teenager from a very conservative family?


Teenagers will do as they please, and it''s best that they''re taught to be safe, above all else.

DITTO!!! I grew up in a very liberal part of NY in the early 90s, where we had sex ed (with birth control taught) starting in 7th grade. NONE of the firls in my high school of 1,000 people EVER walked around the halls with a pregnant baby, or left school to have a baby. Granted, we were an upper-middle class neighborhood, but there was ZERO teen pregnancy in our community. I attribute this mostly to the fact condoms were given out for free at our school, and we saw a demonstration on how to use them properly. I think the more sex education that you have, the less teen pregnancy you have. And, I think that for the most part, children are NOT getting good information from their parents, so the schools need to fill in the blanks.


Now, is there a possibility that some girls got pregnant and had abortions? Probably - but I would much rather see a child not born at all, than born to a teenage parent, who will probably turn out to be, at best, incompetent & unable to financially provide for the child, and at worst, abusive and neglectful.


Bristol Palin''s pregnancy is proof that:

1) abstinence only education is completely ineffective

2) her parents obviously didn''t do a good job of teaching her how to protect herself in a sexually active relationship

3) the Christian right is totally clueless when it comes to teenage sexuality - tennagers are going to have sex, whether you want them to or not, so unless you want a bunch of teenage girls to end up on the welfare rolls, and ruining their own and their childrens'' lives, you must teach them about birth control

4) this also proves my earlier point about Sara Palin''s mothering skills - a mother can''t take good care of a 4 month old special-needs infant on the campaign trail or in the White House - she''s obviously not effectively parenting her older children either - I wouldn''t normally judge her, but isn''t the Republican party supposed to be the ''family values'' party? Palin is failing on several counts.


I do however, find this situation amusing from a political viewpoint. It''s total BS that McCain knew about Bristol''s pregnancy (none of his aides can identify the specific day that he was informed of it) - I wonder how badly he''s kicking himself right now

Wow! So one pregnancy is complete proof that abstinence-only education is completely ineffective? If we follow that reasoning then so is education that teaches contraceptive methods because like you I went to a school with education about both abstinence and contraceptive methods in an upper-middle class area, but guess what? I graduated in 2005..and we had at least one pregnant girl in MY class and I don''t know how many after that. I knew of at least one abortion. Since I''ve graduated..that rate has tripled and they are still teaching all of the "options" in our school system ranging from abstinence to abortion. Again, they taught using condoms and BC..but we STILL had pregnancy. So following your reasoning..every version of sex ed is useless. Also, I really don''t think we should judge someone as having bad family values because their child makes one life-changing mistake. I think if there is a clear pattern of people''s children making constant bad choices, then maybe we need to question the parenting. But sometimes kids and teenagers..especially teenagers do what they want to do no matter what. This girl may be 17..but she is only months short of being a full adult. Sometimes parents do all they can and teenagers still get pregnant. Bristol made her own choices. Oh and as for her baby while being in the White House..why can''t her husband take care of the baby?