iluvcarats
Ideal_Rock
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Female Mccain''s VP pick
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angel_nieves
Brilliant_Rock
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Anna0499
Brilliant_Rock
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I definitely understand your points as well.
Anna0499
Brilliant_Rock
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I agree with you, but i think both parties play into their religion/faith for more votes. Maybe religion/faith shouldn''t play a part in a political election, but the reality is that it does and candidates are all too happy to state their relifious affiliations, declare their belief in God, etc., etc. It''s too bad that you would leave the thread over this, but with the way things are going lately (people attacking, reading more into people''s posts than the actual words, etc.) it won''t be around for long anyway.
iluvcarats
Ideal_Rock
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Date: 9/1/2008 5:37:33 PM
Author: IndyGirl22
I agree with you, but i think both parties play into their religion/faith for more votes. Maybe religion/faith shouldn''t play a part in a political election, but the reality is that it does and candidates are all too happy to state their relifious affiliations, declare their belief in God, etc., etc. It''s too bad that you would leave the thread over this, but with the way things are going lately (people attacking, reading more into people''s posts than the actual words, etc.) it won''t be around for long anyway.
I am not leaving angry. I am leaving b/c I don''t trust myself to follow the rules.
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Wow! I left the computer to travel for a few hours and in that time this thread became a hot potato! As I hope my earlier comments have made clear, I am not about to jump all over this poor teenager. I have one of my own, thank you, and I need all the support I can get for her!
I will say that I find it very hard to believe that Mr. McCain chose Ms. Palin knowing about her daughter's pregnancy, however! One reads that he was aware of it, but not when he became aware of it. Who in his right mind would have picked Ms. Palin if he knew about this in advance? It is causing a firestorm and Mr. McCain needs the conservative Christian vote; it is why he decided not to ask Joseph Lieberman, his first choice in a running mate, to run with him! The only reason he rejected Mr. Lieberman is because the Christian right did not find the (very conservative) Mr. Lieberman conservative enough!
I think one would have to be very gullible indeed to think that Mr. McCain deliberately chose to bring this mess down upon himself! Either he is being disingenuous or he is dangerously out of touch!
Deborah
LAJennifer
Ideal_Rock
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Maybe I just see things differently, but what I feel will speak volumes to the conservative Christian voting populace is the fact that Bristol is keeping her baby. Teen pregnancy can happen to any family - even conservative Christians, and politicians. I don''t see the situation being a problem at all.Date: 9/1/2008 6:55:12 PM
Author: AGBF
Wow! I left the computer to travel for a few hours and in that time this thread became a hot potato! As I hope my earlier comments have made clear, I am not about to jump all over this poor teenager. I have one of my own, thank you, and I need all the support I can get for her!
I will say that I find it very hard to believe that Mr. McCain chose Ms. Palin knowing about her daughter''s pregnancy, however! One reads that he was aware of it, but not when he became aware of it. Who in his right mind would have picked Ms. Palin if he knew about this in advance? It is causing a firestorm and Mr. McCain needs the conservative Christian vote; it is why he decided not to ask Joseph Lieberman, his first choice in a running mate, to run with him! The only reason he rejected Mr. Lieberman is because the Christian right did not find the (very conservative) Mr. Lieberman conservative enough!
I think one would have to be very gullible indeed to think that Mr. McCain deliberately chose to bring this mess down upon himself! Either he is being disingenuous or he is dangerously out of touch!
Deborah
Anna0499
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Hey Macie - I just reread this post and just in case you misunderstood the *ETA* I have in the body of the above post, it had originally read: "you asked a question..." I mistakenly put "you" instead of the poster, so the "(not you Macie)" part was just a clarification of that. I didn''t want this to come across as though I didn''t think you should''ve have replied to my post because it was only directed to anyone in particular. Just FYI.
Anyway, I also like that Obama has stayed out of the rumors about Palin''s daughter
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You don''t see the situation differently from me! I am very much on your wave length and believe that it can happen to most anyone. That is why I believe in teaching adolescents about birth control. Ms. Palin, however, advocates sexual abstinence! Her stand on this social issue was central to why Mr. McCain chose her!
Deborah
iheartscience
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Such an interesting situation! I love seeing how Republicans and evangelicals are responding to the news about Palin''s daughter being preggo. I think the party line is "At least she''s keeping the baby!" Come on...the vast majority of Christian religions teach that it is a sin to have premarital sex. But now all that matters is she''s not getting an abortion? Hilarious.
iheartscience
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Date: 9/1/2008 7:29:53 PM
Author: AGBF
You don''t see the situation differently from me! I am very much on your wave length and believe that it can happen to most anyone. That is why I believe in teaching adolescents about birth control. Ms. Palin, however, advocates sexual abstinence! Her stand on this social issue was central to why Mr. McCain chose her!
Deborah
Of course it can happen to anyone, but it''s the abstinence education thing that really gets me, too. The whole situation could have been prevented! With condom use and birth control pills, it''s HIGHLY unlikely that this girl would become pregnant accidentally.
Anna0499
Brilliant_Rock
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I see what you're saying but at this point in time, after abstinence and/or birth control (we don't know if it was used or not) have failed, what else would someone say about the situation? The best part about sins is that they can be forgiven (not trying to make this into a religion violation of PS, just speculating as to why I don't think conservatives/Republicans will have a problem with Palin's daughter's pregnancy).
ETA: The use of birth control is very much a VALUE judgment based on people's perceptions on what is moral/immoral. Trying to say that someone should've used birth control is putting values upon them that they may not have...telling someone they should've used birth control is as bad, IMHO, as telling someone they can't. I'm not saying anyone has said this, but not everyone believes in birth control because of their own belief systems and I respect that.
iheartscience
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Date: 9/1/2008 7:40:59 PM
Author: IndyGirl22
I see what you''re saying but at this point in time, after abstinence and/or birth control (we don''t know if it was used or not) have failed, what else would someone say about the situation? The best part about sins is that they can be forgiven (not trying to make this into a religion violation of PS, just speculating as to why I don''t think conservatives/Republicans will have a problem with Palin''s daughter''s pregnancy).An abortion would''ve just added to the ''sin'' so I don''t see a different way to react to the news than to get over the premarital sex part and move onto the keeping it/adoption/abortion decision.
Yes, but the fact that Palin, who is a proponent of abstinence only education, now has a pregnant teenage daughter speaks volumes about the silliness of teaching religion (abstinence only) instead of science (birth control) to teenagers.
I''m not condemning the girl for her "sins" at all. I just think it''s a pretty interesting situation for Palin to be in. I''m guessing she''ll stick with the party line and say she''s still for abstinence only education, but who knows. Maybe she can move away from the party line since this most likely could have been prevented if she had an educated teenager with access to birth control.
luckystar112
Ideal_Rock
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Well if you asked me I'd say that religious beliefs aside, abstinence is a pretty scientific way of preventing conception.
Just like you can't stop teens from having sex by teaching them about abstinence, you can't be sure that a teen will use protection just by teaching them about it. So while both methods work in preventing pregnancy, it is ultimately up to the teenager and his/her own personal decision.
My argument isn't against teaching birth control or for teaching abstinence, it's about none of that mattering if the teenager opts not to follow the advise...which happens in both areas of sexual education.
ETA: That wink isn't supposed to be snarky, t2o2. My point with it was that I don't think abstinence is strictly a religious mentality. NOT teaching about BC can be though...although it can also be about not wanting a school to be that involved in your child's life. I mean ultimately you have to do what Obama said, and teach your child morals--but even THAT isn't a guarantee that it won't happen to your child.
Just like you can't stop teens from having sex by teaching them about abstinence, you can't be sure that a teen will use protection just by teaching them about it. So while both methods work in preventing pregnancy, it is ultimately up to the teenager and his/her own personal decision.
My argument isn't against teaching birth control or for teaching abstinence, it's about none of that mattering if the teenager opts not to follow the advise...which happens in both areas of sexual education.
ETA: That wink isn't supposed to be snarky, t2o2. My point with it was that I don't think abstinence is strictly a religious mentality. NOT teaching about BC can be though...although it can also be about not wanting a school to be that involved in your child's life. I mean ultimately you have to do what Obama said, and teach your child morals--but even THAT isn't a guarantee that it won't happen to your child.
swimmer
Ideal_Rock
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Hoping to move this discussion away from personal icky stuff...when I first created this thread I thought it would be a discussion about women voting for women.
My question about this situation, is why Gov Palin revealed her daughter''s condition, was it to dispel blogger''s rumors about her youngest not being her own? I can''t imagine violating my daughter''s privacy in order to make myself look better. Yes, the bloggers were out of line, what ever happened to ignoring when mud is thrown.
What I do see as hypocrisy, and its awesome that FOX is urging everyone to stay away from Gov Palin''s daughter, I remember watching their morning show where they had people call in to identify what farm animals Chelsea Clinton looked like when BC was running his second campaign and she was about two years older than Bristol.
My question about this situation, is why Gov Palin revealed her daughter''s condition, was it to dispel blogger''s rumors about her youngest not being her own? I can''t imagine violating my daughter''s privacy in order to make myself look better. Yes, the bloggers were out of line, what ever happened to ignoring when mud is thrown.
What I do see as hypocrisy, and its awesome that FOX is urging everyone to stay away from Gov Palin''s daughter, I remember watching their morning show where they had people call in to identify what farm animals Chelsea Clinton looked like when BC was running his second campaign and she was about two years older than Bristol.
iheartscience
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Date: 9/1/2008 8:06:14 PM
Author: luckystar112
Well if you asked me I''d say that religious beliefs aside, abstinence is a pretty scientific way of preventing conception.
Just like you can''t stop teens from having sex by teaching them about abstinence, you can''t be sure that a teen will use protection just by teaching them about it. So while both methods work in preventing pregnancy, it is ultimately up to the teenager and his/her own personal decision.
My argument isn''t against teaching birth control or for teaching abstinence, it''s about none of that mattering if the teenager opts not to follow the advise...which happens in both areas of sexual education.
ETA: That wink isn''t supposed to be snarky, t2o2. My point with it was that I don''t think abstinence is strictly a religious mentality. NOT teaching about BC can be though...although it can also be about not wanting a school to be that involved in your child''s life. I mean ultimately you have to do what Obama said, and teach your child morals--but even THAT isn''t a guarantee that it won''t happen to your child.
Hahaha! I completely agree that abstinence is a very effective way of preventing pregnancy. However, in the U.S. the basis for abstinence only education is religious. And I have a big problem with the mixing of church and state. Obviously I have no problem with abstinence being taught alongside actual birth control methods.
Furthermore, parents are able to choose to not have their children take part in sex education. (I know my parents had that option when I was in school.) Why they would want to prevent their children from just learning about birth control, I''m not sure, but I do agree that it should be a parent''s decision.
Of course teenagers with access to birth control won''t always use it, but not being taught about how to obtain birth control, the best methods, etc., doesn''t do teenagers any favors.
luckystar112
Ideal_Rock
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Wow. Stay classy, Fox News!
I also wanted to say that along with Indie, I am happy that Obama has declined to comment on this thus far.
It shows real class. And as a father of two young girls, I''m sure he knows that he is not immune to such a situation in the future either.
The bloggers though.........geeze.
I went to Perez today for my dose of celebrity gossip, and he commented on this story. He was basically saying that Bristol was sl*t and a wh*re.
It''s what bothered me about the Jamie-Lynn pregnancy too.
luckystar112
Ideal_Rock
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I am confused about Palin and am looking forward to learning more.
It appears that she backs abstinence-only education....which may or may not be religiously based...
But then she has no problem with creationism AND evolution being taught in schools, as long as they are both taught and not one over the other.
So which is it? That makes it kind of hard to think that the abstinence-only issue is strictly fueled by relgion.
It appears that she backs abstinence-only education....which may or may not be religiously based...
But then she has no problem with creationism AND evolution being taught in schools, as long as they are both taught and not one over the other.
So which is it? That makes it kind of hard to think that the abstinence-only issue is strictly fueled by relgion.
iheartscience
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The abstinence-only issue is likely fueled by religion and pandering to the religious right. I''ve never heard an argument for abstinence-only education based on anything but religion.
And as for creationism being taught alongside evolution, doesn''t she have to say she''s okay with evolution being taught since it''s, you know, real?
purrfectpear
Ideal_Rock
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Palin=Train Wreck
More to come.
Considering she claims she wanted to "protect" the boy's privacy, she did call him out as Levi. It took me all of 10 minutes on Google to discover EXACTLY who he was. Seriously, she knew what she was doing. Her picture is on a myspace of Levi's sister holding Trig, referring to her as mommyinlaw (now set to private). So much for privacy.
Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party. Re: the AIP – their own website homepage states that their "Ultimate Goal" includes "Become a separate and Independent Nation." If that's not secessionist...
http://www.akip.org/
Don't know what McCain was thinking, but you're supposed to vett candidates BEFORE you announce them.
It almost makes you feel sorry for him
More to come.
Considering she claims she wanted to "protect" the boy's privacy, she did call him out as Levi. It took me all of 10 minutes on Google to discover EXACTLY who he was. Seriously, she knew what she was doing. Her picture is on a myspace of Levi's sister holding Trig, referring to her as mommyinlaw (now set to private). So much for privacy.
Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party. Re: the AIP – their own website homepage states that their "Ultimate Goal" includes "Become a separate and Independent Nation." If that's not secessionist...
http://www.akip.org/
Don't know what McCain was thinking, but you're supposed to vett candidates BEFORE you announce them.
It almost makes you feel sorry for him
Anna0499
Brilliant_Rock
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Haha swimmer I wondered how you felt about the turn this thread has taken! I have contributed to it, but I think most PSers have been thoughtful and contributed very nicely to the discussions, although they have been more about Palin''s daughter than Palin herself lately (I am guilty of helping it, too!). I would venture to say that Palin felt compelled to reveal her daughter''s pregnancy partly to dispel the rumors about her son being her grandson (!) and partly because she didn''t want people to find out and accuse her of "covering it up" once again. With all the attention paid to her daughter lately it would only be a matter of time before TMZ and the bloggers were reporting about it...quite sad, really. In any case, I''m sure she asked her daughter her thoughts before revealing the information.
I agree with you on the hypocrisy of the newstations! I''ve always felt sorry for the children of political candidates...or anyone famous for that matter...who do not choose the spotlight but get put underneath a magnifying glass nonetheless.
fisherofmengirly
Ideal_Rock
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That's a whole different topic, really, but there are two types of evolution: Micro and Macro. Both are theories, but one makes sense and has logic and evidence to support it, while the other, well, that's more debateable.
My high school (in California) taught both evolution (and both variations of it) and creationism and taught them both well and fairly, stating that there were theories of this and theories of that.
fisherofmengirly
Ideal_Rock
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That link states their goal is linked to the vote they were entitled to in 1958; and then lists 4 things they were entitled to vote for in that year. It doesn''t say they want to break free and be their own nation.Date: 9/1/2008 9:50:18 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Palin=Train Wreck
More to come.
Considering she claims she wanted to ''protect'' the boy''s privacy, she did call him out as Levi. It took me all of 10 minutes on Google to discover EXACTLY who he was. Seriously, she knew what she was doing. Her picture is on a myspace of Levi''s sister holding Trig, referring to her as mommyinlaw (now set to private). So much for privacy.
Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party. Re: the AIP – their own website homepage states that their ''Ultimate Goal'' includes ''Become a separate and Independent Nation.'' If that''s not secessionist...
http://www.akip.org/
Don''t know what McCain was thinking, but you''re supposed to vett candidates BEFORE you announce them.
It almost makes you feel sorry for him
They want to be more free of the government; so do a TON of American citizens.
purrfectpear
Ideal_Rock
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Click through more than one page. That party platform states very clearly and in multiple sentences that they would PREFER to be a commonwealth such as Puerto Rico. That means succeding from the United States of America.
Not exactly the best political view for a VP of the United States of America to hold.
Not exactly the best political view for a VP of the United States of America to hold.
Kaleigh
Super_Ideal_Rock
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I think she will step down, sighting family issues and that Joe Leiberman will be her replacement. I like her, didn't know anything about her until a few days ago. I hope all goes well for her and her family. If she hangs in there, I wish her the best. I hate to see her daughter brought into all of this.
diamondfan
Super_Ideal_Rock
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I think she almost has to at this point. I just cannot imagine McCain really wanted this, though most people are saying it should not have bearing of course it does.
Her hubby was arrested for drunk driving 20 years ago and that was brought up too! Yikes, better not run for office if you even so much as jaywalked or palmed a pack of gum in your life.
Her hubby was arrested for drunk driving 20 years ago and that was brought up too! Yikes, better not run for office if you even so much as jaywalked or palmed a pack of gum in your life.
SarahLovesJS
Ideal_Rock
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I really don''t see her stepping down, and I am foolish enough to believe I guess that McCain did know all of this ahead of time. I am surprised he chose her still, but obviously he has faith in her. She''s a real person..her family is made up of real people and I am sure she knew what she was getting into. Why should she step down? The right so far..*so far* is still rallying behind her, so long as that doesn''t change I see no reason for her to step down. *shrug*
tanuki
Shiny_Rock
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This just in . . . . (from slate.com)
SARAH PALIN''s "TO DO" List -
for Tuesday September 2, 2008
1. Learn about Al Qaeda.
2. Learn about Washington D.C.
3. Order Bristol''s dress (Elastic waist!!! Is white inappropriate after 6 mos?)
4. Fire brother-in-law.
5. Learn about Russia/Georgia/S.Ossetia (Locate Abkhazia???)
6 Nurse Baby Trig.
7. Order flowers for wedding.
8. Fire people who haven''t fired brother-in-law
9. Learn about ethics rules.
10. Fire at brother-in-law? (option: aerial shooting?)
11. Nurse Baby Trig.
12. Learn about Iran.
13. Learn about U.S. Senate.
14. Learn about contraception. (Too late???)
15. Investigate homes for foundlings?
16. Govern Alaska.
17. Life insurance on J.M.?
SARAH PALIN''s "TO DO" List -
for Tuesday September 2, 2008
1. Learn about Al Qaeda.
2. Learn about Washington D.C.
3. Order Bristol''s dress (Elastic waist!!! Is white inappropriate after 6 mos?)
4. Fire brother-in-law.
5. Learn about Russia/Georgia/S.Ossetia (Locate Abkhazia???)
6 Nurse Baby Trig.
7. Order flowers for wedding.
8. Fire people who haven''t fired brother-in-law
9. Learn about ethics rules.
10. Fire at brother-in-law? (option: aerial shooting?)
11. Nurse Baby Trig.
12. Learn about Iran.
13. Learn about U.S. Senate.
14. Learn about contraception. (Too late???)
15. Investigate homes for foundlings?
16. Govern Alaska.
17. Life insurance on J.M.?
iheartscience
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Anna0499
Brilliant_Rock
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I was hoping that with the number of women, particularly mothers, on PS that most could identify with at least one element of Palin's life, but outside of PS I see criticism, judgment, and laughs about a very serious situation to which I'm sure many PSers can relate. I see a double standard and it bothers me. Due to the reaction I've seen from bloggers delving more deeply into her personal life in a couple of DAYS than most politicians get their whole lifetime and others citing concerns about how the family and home will be impacted in the event of her election, I now really don't think a woman will be President for a long time...
ETA: I'm not meaning to aim this post at anyone in particular...I have just been disappointed in general by the treatment of Palin and her family by the media and bloggers, etc.
I guess I'm in the minority with LAJennifer that I don't see why her daughter's pregnancy is supposed to be viewed as such a horrible thing to conservative Republicans that will impact their votes. Even if they don't agree with it (not their place anyway), they sure as heck aren't going to vote for Obama and they sure as heck will vote to do their part to make sure Obama doesn't get elected.
ETA: I'm not meaning to aim this post at anyone in particular...I have just been disappointed in general by the treatment of Palin and her family by the media and bloggers, etc.
I guess I'm in the minority with LAJennifer that I don't see why her daughter's pregnancy is supposed to be viewed as such a horrible thing to conservative Republicans that will impact their votes. Even if they don't agree with it (not their place anyway), they sure as heck aren't going to vote for Obama and they sure as heck will vote to do their part to make sure Obama doesn't get elected.
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