Female Mccain''s VP pick

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/6/2008 1:04:07 AM
Author: IndyGirl22


I just wish people would do their research before posting and spreading information that may or may not be true...

Well now, where were you when things were being posted about Obama that was already debunked and refuted? Certainly never stopped people from posting about it or talking about it. Heck, it just happened yesterday. I decided to post every article I came across, good or bad. I actually figured in the time I was gone, more people would have posted some information about this chick beyond their opinions. I believe people can read and draw their own conclusions.

My suspicion about the waitress is that if she really did hear Palin say that, why would she have not shared this information earlier (before the VP nomination)? Like I said, if such a thing happened here it would be in the news ASAP. Just seems weird...who knows if it's true or not. Unfortunately, people have short memory spans when it comes to ignorant remarks, though, so I don't know that even if this claim is proven to have been uttered by Palin if it will have much affect in the election months from now.

I have absolutely no idea if the waitress story is true or not, and well, I can't say I care much because I already have enough reasons not to want this woman as VP. But you are talking about a small town where the majority of people speak this way. Who exactly was the waitress supposed to run and tell? Do you even think it would have been news worthy where she was if it's the norm? Do you live in a town/state with a population equally as small? What's your minority to white ratio? You don't need to believe it without further evidence, but discounting it based on the fact that the waitress didn't tell anyone until now, well, a lot of things need to be taken into consideration before dismissing the claim on that alone.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/6/2008 9:31:59 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

Your post actually runs parallel to the argument that I was making - that if she did say this months ago, then why was there no article, news story, etc. written up about it then (i.e. you saying that people will know what you said in 10 minutes)? If there was such discontent with her I would think information like that would spread like wildfire.

I''m not sure why you have discounted power in this equation. You are talking about a person that was first mayor, then governor, she went on a firing rampage and hired people that would take what she said as gold. Palin has far more power than the average citizen.

When a person (the waitress) makes such allegations (racism, ignorance, etc.) they should be able to back up their allegations with facts, other witnesses, etc. If not, it should be expected that most won''t believe them. Also, if these people were so displeased with her as governor maybe they should''ve spoken up & utilized the democratic process to enact change...if they were in the minority they probably wouldn''t have made much difference in an election, but they could''ve made people more aware of the ''horrible'' things Palin was doing.

Again, it''s the power issue being ignored. First, the waitress resigned herself to the fact that no one would believe her or care. What was the quote? "That''s Alaska" I don''t think she''s looking for some huge story, someone asked her a question and she answered. As far as people being displeased, well, if she''s only talking about the minorities...who the heck is going to care? You see how this crap works in places less isolated than Alaska. It''s not that shocking.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/6/2008 9:32:16 AM
Author: MoonWater

Well now, where were you when things were being posted about Obama that was already debunked and refuted? Certainly never stopped people from posting about it or talking about it. Heck, it just happened yesterday. I decided to post every article I came across, good or bad. I actually figured in the time I was gone, more people would have posted some information about this chick beyond their opinions. I believe people can read and draw their own conclusions.

I have absolutely no idea if the waitress story is true or not, and well, I can't say I care much because I already have enough reasons not to want this woman as VP. But you are talking about a small town where the majority of people speak this way. Who exactly was the waitress supposed to run and tell? Do you even think it would have been news worthy where she was if it's the norm? Do you live in a town/state with a population equally as small? What's your minority to white ratio? You don't need to believe it without further evidence, but discounting it based on the fact that the waitress didn't tell anyone until now, well, a lot of things need to be taken into consideration before dismissing the claim on that alone.

You can obviously do whatever you want; I wasn't referring to PSers when I was speaking, so I think you misunderstood. I was speaking of the author of the article I read about this topic. I have noticed that you have taken it upon yourself to post every single article about Palin & that's your perogative, but it's also my perogative to say that I wish the writers of those articles were more informed/cited sources/had concrete evidence. I *did* read & draw my own conclusions & I posted them here...where is the problem?

As for the Obama links, I didn't go to them because I already know I'm not voting for him, so I didn't comment on them...I can choose which links to comment on. I don't want to know more about him so I didn't read them, but I did want to know more about Palin, simple as that.

I don't know the townspeople, nor have I ever been to her hometown, so I won't assume that the "majority" of people speak this way just b/c someone says so. To answer your questions, YES it would be newsworthy to me anytime ANY politician speaks that way, as stated above, my hometown has 31,000 people, and since you asked, here is the breakdown as of July 2007 (hardly diverse): White Non-Hispanic (81.5%), Chinese (3.6%), Asian Indian (3.4%), Hispanic (3.2%), Black (2.4%), Two or more races (1.6%), Other Asian (1.4%), Korean (1.4%), Other race (1.2%), Japanese (0.9%).

ETA: I'm done arguing with you about my personal opinion on the matter...let it go.
ETAA: miraclesrule - Sounds like a fun interview! Better than the one's I've been having anyway

 

[stone_seeker]

I love all the attention Palin is bringing to the McCain camp. You couldn't find one media outlet let along Pricescope thread talking about McCain. Everything was Obama, Obama, Obama. Once all the titillating rumors subside (Obama has his share also but Republicans want to keep the attention on Palin and McCain), there are now millions more people focusing on what McCain has to say which was the genius about this selection.

The democrats and elite media (e.g. NBC) have all fallen for it. I cant wait until this thread reaches 100 pages with the final post being about what she's wearing on inauguration day.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 9/6/2008 9:31:59 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/6/2008 8:26:52 AM
Author: ksinger
Credibility issues aside, you clearly haven''t lived in a small town. I don''t either, strictly speaking, but if anyone here from Oklahoma City was reading this, they would tell you that it resembles a small town in a lot of ways. Even so, I have many friends who hailed from small towns in their youth, and the things that are known about but are kept silent would literally curl your hair. Pastors getting kids to buy them beer, incest, child abuse, you name it. Many people know and NO ONE talks. The retribution would be swift. A small town is a very isolated thing, at least it can be so in the minds of the residents. The mindset is GENUINELY different than city dwellers. (And in Alaska, that isolation can be more than mental.) You talk badly about someone, and they''ll know who said what in about 10 minutes.

I don''t really get what your post means...I grew up in a town with 31,000 people; I don''t know if most would consider that a small town but I definitely don''t consider it a big one. Your post actually runs parallel to the argument that I was making - that if she did say this months ago, then why was there no article, news story, etc. written up about it then (i.e. you saying that people will know what you said in 10 minutes)? If there was such discontent with her I would think information like that would spread like wildfire. When a person (the waitress) makes such allegations (racism, ignorance, etc.) they should be able to back up their allegations with facts, other witnesses, etc. If not, it should be expected that most won''t believe them. Also, if these people were so displeased with her as governor maybe they should''ve spoken up & utilized the democratic process to enact change...if they were in the minority they probably wouldn''t have made much difference in an election, but they could''ve made people more aware of the ''horrible'' things Palin was doing.

ETA: Even in our ''small'' town my mother spoke out many times against a politician she disagreed with...she finally got the politician''s attention & received a handwritten reply to her letters to the editor.

You said:

I''m also not surprised that people want to know every little detail about Palin (I like learning more about her, but even then some of the ''news'' isn''t really news to me); I just wish people would do their research before posting and spreading information that may or may not be true...makes it hard to know what to believe, so I tend just not to believe any of it that isn''t substantiated with concrete evidence (the law student in me - I''m totally there with you about the credibility judgments too). Of course, this is wishful thinking in the age of the Internet. My suspicion about the waitress is that if she really did hear Palin say that, why would she have not shared this information earlier (before the VP nomination)? Like I said, if such a thing happened here it would be in the news ASAP. Just seems weird...who knows if it''s true or not. Unfortunately, people have short memory spans when it comes to ignorant remarks, though, so I don''t know that even if this claim is proven to have been uttered by Palin if it will have much affect in the election months from now.

I say:

No, 31,000 doesn''t qualify as small in what I''m talking about. The small I''m speaking of is well under 10,000. And I''m merely saying that just because you don''t understand it doesn''t mean it couldn''t happen. I''m glad your town was so open, but it''s wrong to assume that all others must be that same way. The idea that a person like the waitress would keep her mouth firmly shut passes MY experience and "sniff test" pretty well. Again, I''m not commenting on the veracity of the claim, merely on whether such a response in the face of hearing something like that, could be likely. I find it VERY likely. I personally would be likely to be quiet in that situation. Maybe I''ve just been around too many Okie rednecks in my day to allow me to think it''s risk free to get in their faces. It''s the same mentality that allowed the lynchings to occur in the south. It''s the same mentality that keeps people in the ''hood quiet when the police come around asking questions. It''s the same mentality that keeps abused women and children from speaking about the abuse. Fear. It''s that power factor that Moon mentioned.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/6/2008 10:45:38 AM
Author: ksinger

I say:

No, 31,000 doesn't qualify as small in what I'm talking about. The small I'm speaking of is well under 10,000. And I'm merely saying that just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it couldn't happen. I'm glad your town was so open, but it's wrong to assume that all others must be that same way. The idea that a person like the waitress would keep her mouth firmly shut passes MY experience and 'sniff test' pretty well. Again, I'm not commenting on the veracity of the claim, merely on whether such a response in the face of hearing something like that, could be likely. I find it VERY likely. I personally would be likely to be quiet in that situation. Maybe I've just been around too many Okie rednecks in my day to allow me to think it's risk free to get in their faces. It's the same mentality that allowed the lynchings to occur in the south. It's the same mentality that keeps people in the 'hood quiet when the police come around asking questions. It's the same mentality that keeps abused women and children from speaking about the abuse. Fear. It's that power factor that Moon mentioned.

It's perfectly fine if you believe it, I simply said I didn't YET...I assume that's still okay around here? I don't know why you & Moon have taken it upon yourselves to start a debate with me about my personal opinion about the credibility of the source instead of just stating your own and leaving me out of it. I also NEVER said "it couldn't happen" so I don't know where that came from...I took care to say that it very well could HAVE happened, I just wasn't satisfied with the story just YET. Since you have taken this discussion to talking about battered women and the "hood", I'm going to disengage even though I was only voicing my personal opinion.

 

[luckystar112]

This is silly.

Indy doesn''t believe everything she reads. It''s as simple as that.
Frankly, I don''t either. The waitress could be legit, or she could be an attention seeker. We don''t know. The point is that someone has decided to make, what is essentially a rumor, "News". That''s not very responsible reporting. I''d imagine that those looking for dirt on her could find something a bit more legit than that. 20% of residents don''t approve of her, and that was what they chose to report? Funny.

P.S. There was no such thing as a secret in my small town of 10,476.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 9/6/2008 11:00:32 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/6/2008 10:45:38 AM
Author: ksinger

I say:

No, 31,000 doesn't qualify as small in what I'm talking about. The small I'm speaking of is well under 10,000. And I'm merely saying that just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it couldn't happen. I'm glad your town was so open, but it's wrong to assume that all others must be that same way. The idea that a person like the waitress would keep her mouth firmly shut passes MY experience and 'sniff test' pretty well. Again, I'm not commenting on the veracity of the claim, merely on whether such a response in the face of hearing something like that, could be likely. I find it VERY likely. I personally would be likely to be quiet in that situation. Maybe I've just been around too many Okie rednecks in my day to allow me to think it's risk free to get in their faces. It's the same mentality that allowed the lynchings to occur in the south. It's the same mentality that keeps people in the 'hood quiet when the police come around asking questions. It's the same mentality that keeps abused women and children from speaking about the abuse. Fear. It's that power factor that Moon mentioned.

It's perfectly fine if you believe it, I simply said I didn't YET...I assume that's still okay around here? I don't know why you & Moon have taken it upon yourselves to start a debate with me about my personal opinion about the credibility of the source instead of just stating your own and leaving me out of it. I also NEVER said 'it couldn't happen' so I don't know where that came from...I took care to say that it very well could HAVE happened, I just wasn't satisfied with the story just YET. Since you have taken this discussion to talking about battered women and the 'hood', I'm going to disengage even though I was only voicing my personal opinion.

Where in the FREAKING HECK did THAT come from??? I really want to know what I said to get that particular response, because I don't see it. AT ALL. Did you completely miss what I've highlighted for you??? I made NO comment as to the truth of the claim or not, nor did I comment on your not believing it yet. I was commenting on your statements indicating you not understanding how it could not come out and thinking it was "weird". I said I DO understand that. If this is offensive to you, then you need to take a hard look at your offense-O-meter, because it's mis-firing.

I have posted not much in this thread, in the grand scheme of things, so I have no idea why you think Moon and I are some sort of team. How you got THAT out of my post I don't know either.

Moon offered the chill pill earlier. Maybe I need to offer one now.

ETA - Oh, and for the record, I have read several lists of Palin's stances on things - the environment, government, education, etc. I disagree with quite a few of her STANCES. I consider the other stuff hearsay until the weight of the evidence says otherwise. You seem to think that I agree with all that stuff. Talk about reading too much into one post. Sheesh.

 

[miraclesrule]

Interesting article. As a woman and a mother, I was able to resonate with it.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157376

ETA: I read a quote today that said

"Do not let us be seduced by that which would divert us from our purpose, Rather, illuminate the opportunities of the present moment"

I can't wait for some talk about substantive issues and ideas for solutions to the problems that threaten Americans and our future. It's clear that conventions are nothing but lovefests among likeminded people that further divide us and detract attention away from the real issues. That has evolved with television, celebrity candidates from Reagan to Arnold and the sensationistic mainstream media. Let's talk about Jobs, Healthcare, taxes, safety and security, economic stability....

You know, the things we really need to address. Not us on this board, but the candidates. I can't wait for the debates and what is about to follow.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/6/2008 10:45:23 AM
Author: stone_seeker
I love all the attention Palin is bringing to the McCain camp. You couldn''t find one media outlet let along Pricescope thread talking about McCain. Everything was Obama, Obama, Obama. Once all the titillating rumors subside (Obama has his share also but Republicans want to keep the attention on Palin and McCain), there are now millions more people focusing on what McCain has to say which was the genius about this selection.

The democrats and elite media (e.g. NBC) have all fallen for it. I cant wait until this thread reaches 100 pages with the final post being about what she''s wearing on inauguration day.

MOVING ON (once again)...I agree! People are definitely more interested in the McCain/Palin ticket than ever before, whether they love it or hate it. More people tuned in to watch McCain & the RNC than Obama & the DNC...a good sign when you''re trailing...

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 9/6/2008 12:01:07 PM
Author: miraclesrule
Interesting article. As a woman and a mother, I was able to resonate with it.


http://www.newsweek.com/id/157376

What resonated even more to me as an American is the comment below that article about how a family of 4 with income of $40K will pay more tax under Obama''s plan.

Also, regarding Newsweek, this is from Wikipedia:

"The magazine was purchased by the Washington Post Company in 1961.[3] Newsweek is generally considered the most liberal of the three major newsweeklies, an assertion supported in a recent UCLA study on media point of view.[4] For example in the past decades the magazine''s editorial staff was often critical of the Nixon and Reagan Administrations."

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/6/2008 12:01:07 PM
Author: miraclesrule
Interesting article. As a woman and a mother, I was able to resonate with it.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157376

I liked the part about how all women aren't going to vote for McCain simply because Palin is a woman, but I think most women are smarter than that anyway. I've actually witnessed much more anti-Palin sentiment from women overall. I have seen a lot of pressure, however, from African-Americans who think other African-Americans should vote for Obama because he is African-American.

I think it's an interesting dynamic on both sides of the election. I'm not saying ANYTHING regarding how they feel about Obama's political views - many African-Americans believe his views would be more advantageous to their personal values & that's great - BUT I do hear people being encouraged to vote for Obama because "now is our time" on the radio every morning. I remember one morning they were publicly criticizing MLKJr.'s daughter for supporting McCain because she was "betraying" her people. It's sad if anyone thinks pressuring someone to vote along not only their party lines but their racial/gender/ethnic lines is the way to go.

ETA: I *am* waiting to hear from Hillary but I didn't agree with a lot of what the "letter" stated...interesting narrative though.

 

[stone_seeker]

This was the newsweek comment i was referring to:

#
Posted By: Ohio Women for McCain @ 09/06/2008 11:57:01 AM

Comment: I suggest anyone that believes Obama is going to help them and the country read Investor''s Business Daily, August 25th; there is an article title "Obama wants to shift tax burden to rich". According to Obama - if you are a family of 4 with an income of $31,000 - $46,000 you would end up with a 34% - 39% marginal tax rate - 13% points higher than the current tax code. 13% higher!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don''t know anyone who believes $31,000 - $46,000 is "middle class" - except Obama. Must be all that pot and "blow" that he used - and if you actually read his book you will see that those are HIS words!!! McCain and Palin will HELP the country - not make the hard working people pay for those that don''t.

 

[miraclesrule]

Well, I like them even more if they were critical of Nixon. I think he was slime.

I was okay with Reagan, even though I had to eat a lot of mac and cheese and me and my daughter had to live in a really bad part of town during Reaganomics. But I still thrived despite the challenges, so I didn''t despise him like I did Nixon.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 9/6/2008 12:19:01 PM
Author: stone_seeker
This was the newsweek comment i was referring to:

#
Posted By: Ohio Women for McCain @ 09/06/2008 11:57:01 AM

Comment: I suggest anyone that believes Obama is going to help them and the country read Investor''s Business Daily, August 25th; there is an article title ''Obama wants to shift tax burden to rich''. According to Obama - if you are a family of 4 with an income of $31,000 - $46,000 you would end up with a 34% - 39% marginal tax rate - 13% points higher than the current tax code. 13% higher!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don''t know anyone who believes $31,000 - $46,000 is ''middle class'' - except Obama. Must be all that pot and ''blow'' that he used - and if you actually read his book you will see that those are HIS words!!! McCain and Palin will HELP the country - not make the hard working people pay for those that don''t.

Seriously, I just tried to go out there to read said article. Just to look around at IBD requires me to fill out a bunch of crap and do a trial subscription. Sorry, too much work for one article. Find me one that is somewhere public and I''ll go read it.

 

[luckystar112]

From the article:

style="WIDTH: 88.29%; HEIGHT: 93px">


We do not see rudeness and snarkiness and sarcasm as admirable; in fact, most women teach their children not to treat others in that manner, and they tend to steer clear of adults who never learned that lesson.

Yet this is an open letter to Hillary Clinton. Bahahaha!

 

[miraclesrule]

I know, when I read that part I thought "D'oH, that's me too"!!

Although I have to admit, I noticed that Hillary toned down her snarkiness with Obama and others during the campaign because it was hurting her.

Speaking of Mothers and kids, time for me to get in the shower so I am on time for the Baby Shower today.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/6/2008 12:19:01 PM
Author: stone_seeker
This was the newsweek comment i was referring to:


#

Posted By: Ohio Women for McCain @ 09/06/2008 11:57:01 AM


Comment: I suggest anyone that believes Obama is going to help them and the country read Investor's Business Daily, August 25th; there is an article title 'Obama wants to shift tax burden to rich'. According to Obama - if you are a family of 4 with an income of $31,000 - $46,000 you would end up with a 34% - 39% marginal tax rate - 13% points higher than the current tax code. 13% higher!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know anyone who believes $31,000 - $46,000 is 'middle class' - except Obama. Must be all that pot and 'blow' that he used - and if you actually read his book you will see that those are HIS words!!! McCain and Palin will HELP the country - not make the hard working people pay for those that don't.

lol, quoting uninformed citizens doesn't make it true.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/candidates08/compare/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html <--- is the link for the graphic below

ETA: Everything that I have heard said that your taxes only go up with Obama if you make more than 250,000. I think that this kicks in as a tax a payroll SS tax on incomes above $250K. I think currently, you only pay to SS tax up to 102K, and he is leaving 102K-250K without additional tax, then adding a tax back AFTER 250K. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I just think we should be talking about the FACTS when possible. A lot of stuff is hearsay that we can't validate. This is not one of them.

FWIW, I'm in the BOTTOM bracket. $19 couldn't fill my gas tank or buy one bag of food for my dog. $567 could pay for my car insurance for 90% of the year. Or buy me 6 month of gas. Or pay for one emergency trip to the vet for my dog.

Anyway, I will get back on topic... Palin...

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/6/2008 12:16:06 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/6/2008 12:01:07 PM

Author: miraclesrule

Interesting article. As a woman and a mother, I was able to resonate with it.


http://www.newsweek.com/id/157376

I liked the part about how all women aren''t going to vote for McCain simply because Palin is a woman, but I think most women are smarter than that anyway. I''ve actually witnessed much more anti-Palin sentiment from women overall. I have seen a lot of pressure, however, from African-Americans who think other African-Americans should vote for Obama because he is African-American.

I think it''s an interesting dynamic on both sides of the election. I''m not saying ANYTHING regarding how they feel about Obama''s political views - many African-Americans believe his views would be more advantageous to their personal values & that''s great - BUT I do hear people being encouraged to vote for Obama because ''now is our time'' on the radio every morning. I remember one morning they were publicly criticizing MLKJr.''s daughter for supporting McCain because she was ''betraying'' her people. It''s sad if anyone thinks pressuring someone to vote along not only their party lines but their racial/gender/ethnic lines is the way to go.

ETA: I *am* waiting to hear from Hillary but I didn''t agree with a lot of what the ''letter'' stated...interesting narrative though.

I agree with you and find this type of narrative insulting. I am black, and have plenty of Republicans in my family. They voted for Bush, and will now vote for Obama because they seek CHANGE, not in the hippy nebulous sense, but actual CHANGE in leadership in the executive Branch. I know black democrats who refuse to vote for Obama because they are terrified he will be assassinated. I think voting for ANYONE because of their race or gender is an insult to democracy. There have been several articles lately about how Black republicans still don''t necessarily plan to vote for Obama, just like there have been articles about women who will and won''t vote for Palin because she is a woman. MOST black folks are democrats, so it would be natural to see them voting that way. Women are not overwhelmingly republican. It remains to be seen how many women Palin pulls in. I think many women were excited about her as a possibility. I was. She has actually been quite polarizing, good, bad or indifferent.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/6/2008 1:57:58 PM
Author: trillionaire

I agree with you and find this type of narrative insulting. I am black, and have plenty of Republicans in my family. They voted for Bush, and will now vote for Obama because they seek CHANGE, not in the hippy nebulous sense, but actual CHANGE in leadership in the executive Branch. I know black democrats who refuse to vote for Obama because they are terrified he will be assassinated. I think voting for ANYONE because of their race or gender is an insult to democracy. There have been several articles lately about how Black republicans still don't necessarily plan to vote for Obama, just like there have been articles about women who will and won't vote for Palin because she is a woman. MOST black folks are democrats, so it would be natural to see them voting that way. Women are not overwhelmingly republican. It remains to be seen how many women Palin pulls in. I think many women were excited about her as a possibility. I was. She has actually been quite polarizing, good, bad or indifferent.

Thanks for your reply! I was worried it might be misread & seen as some sort of attack on African-Americans who are voting for Obama for more legitimate reasons than his race, but I'm glad you read it in the spirit it was written. I actually think several of those in the minority group of the candidate are *more* critical of the candidate because they want good representation of their group. What a heavy burden these "representative" candidates must feel - they can't be all things to all people and surely those in their minority group who disagree with their politics will slam them the hardest. I've seen that from both women in regards to Palin and some African-Americans in regards to Obama (although less so there).

McCain is an older man & there is a possibility he might die in office, but I also worry about Obama's safety if he gets elected. They have already arrested a few men who seemingly plotted to attack him, so hopefully security around him gets tightened up in the coming months and after the election, regardless of if he wins or loses...there are some CRAZIES out there.

Sorry if this post is too off topic...but here's an interesting graphic I found from the LA Times regarding the tax policies...same concept as yours but those getting tax increases are shown to start at ~$117,000 instead of getting a decrease of 2.1%...I wonder which is correct? They probably both are because the ranges in incomes skews the numbers. So confusing!

 

[stone_seeker]

I am not quoting uninformed people. I am repeating what was quoted in Investors Business Daily and Barrons - they are considered authorities on financial topics. Be careful what you wish for. You may get a few hundred bucks on your income tax but that company you work for now cant afford to keep you on staff because they taxes went up astronomically.

When it comes to assessing the implications of John McCain''s and Barack Obama''s tax plans, the vast majority seem to side with Bank Credit Analyst managing editor Martin Barnes: "There are attempts to make the Obama-McCain difference big; but they are not that big, really."

Barron''s Jim McTague begs to differ. "The vast majority... is wrong."

Obama would have the top 1% of income-tax payers handing over an average of $93,700 more - to $652,900. McCain would reduce the group''s taxes by $48,860 to $510,320. While appealing, it fails to address the impact such a blow to the super-rich''s disposable income could have:

These folks tend to plow a lot of their money into businesses -- from family operations to blue-chip stocks -- to say nothing of shopping trips and travel. In other words, cutting their after-tax income could deal another blow to an already-hobbled economy.

Investment strategist Michael Aronstein notes a similar plan, implemented by Herbert Hoover during the Great Depression, sucked "much-needed investment capital out of the markets and into the hands of bureaucrats, delaying the turnaround." Looking ahead ten years, the difference between the two is far from insignificant. Obama would siphon about $800B out of corporate coffers, while McCain''s plan would reduce the government''s take by $600B.

Analysis by independent economist Allen Sinai measured the impact of the Bush administration''s tax cuts: Without them, GDP would have been 0.7% less each year from 2001-2006, and unemployment would have been 1.2% higher.

Wachovia chief economist John Silvia notes corporate and capital-gains tax hikes would impede foreign investment once the world gets wind that it''s more expensive to do business in the U.S.

All this is not to say that an Obama win spells sure disaster:

Obama could get lucky... Oil prices could fall to $50 a barrel, or a Tom Edison might turn crab grass into jet fuel. Better yet, Obama, who''s no dummy, might think twice about raising taxes during the worst financial crisis in 78 years.

 

[luckystar112]

More on Wasilla and Palin. Positive! Gasp!

 

[HollyS]

Date: 9/6/2008 12:07:11 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/6/2008 10:45:23 AM
Author: stone_seeker
I love all the attention Palin is bringing to the McCain camp. You couldn''t find one media outlet let along Pricescope thread talking about McCain. Everything was Obama, Obama, Obama. Once all the titillating rumors subside (Obama has his share also but Republicans want to keep the attention on Palin and McCain), there are now millions more people focusing on what McCain has to say which was the genius about this selection.

The democrats and elite media (e.g. NBC) have all fallen for it. I cant wait until this thread reaches 100 pages with the final post being about what she''s wearing on inauguration day.

MOVING ON (once again)...I agree! People are definitely more interested in the McCain/Palin ticket than ever before, whether they love it or hate it. More people tuned in to watch McCain & the RNC than Obama & the DNC...a good sign when you''re trailing...

IndyGirl: I admire your tenacity.

But you are fighting a losing battle here. There are going to be those that want to deliberately misinterpret each post you make. If you get bogged down in defending yourself, it ceases to be about the real subject. Kudos to you for sticking with it though.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 9/6/2008 3:38:13 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 9/6/2008 12:07:11 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/6/2008 10:45:23 AM
Author: stone_seeker
I love all the attention Palin is bringing to the McCain camp. You couldn''t find one media outlet let along Pricescope thread talking about McCain. Everything was Obama, Obama, Obama. Once all the titillating rumors subside (Obama has his share also but Republicans want to keep the attention on Palin and McCain), there are now millions more people focusing on what McCain has to say which was the genius about this selection.

The democrats and elite media (e.g. NBC) have all fallen for it. I cant wait until this thread reaches 100 pages with the final post being about what she''s wearing on inauguration day.

MOVING ON (once again)...I agree! People are definitely more interested in the McCain/Palin ticket than ever before, whether they love it or hate it. More people tuned in to watch McCain & the RNC than Obama & the DNC...a good sign when you''re trailing...

IndyGirl: I admire your tenacity.

But you are fighting a losing battle here. There are going to be those that want to deliberately misinterpret each post you make. If you get bogged down in defending yourself, it ceases to be about the real subject. Kudos to you for sticking with it though.

Ditto.

 

[diamondfan]

Stone, this is why I cannot vote for Obama. I am not thrilled that McCain is anti choice, but do not think Roe v. Wade will disappear. While McCain wants Roe v. Wade to become a STATES issue (so it would not be gone just not be a national government issue), what Obama wants to do, by taking MORE of my money without trimming elsewhere is not working for me. And it will impact discretionary spending, there is not any doubt. Once you have less, things have to go by the wayside, it is simple economic common sense. I pay a boatload in taxes now. I think government is poorly spending what it has. Let's address that before just throwing more money at things.

Also, Obama is a star at self promotion. He is a great package, and compelling to listen to if you like that sense of being spoken to by someone who really truly feels he is our savior. A bit grandiose to me, but, hey, more power to him if he can actually do all he says and not ream us come tax time. McCain is again, not the best option to me, but I have to decide which is the lesser of two evils. I do think he wants America to be great and has the ability to do the tough things needed now, because, like it or not (and who LIKES war?) we are in troubled times and are a target for a lot of countries. And I believe that McCain is NOT trying to be George Bush for another term. Bush is a joke, and has really not done much to leave a legacy to be proud of, I do not care what party you feel most aligned with, he has not done a stellar job in the final analysis.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/6/2008 2:49:52 PM
Author: stone_seeker
I am not quoting uninformed people. I am repeating what was quoted in Investors Business Daily and Barrons - they are considered authorities on financial topics. Be careful what you wish for. You may get a few hundred bucks on your income tax but that company you work for now cant afford to keep you on staff because they taxes went up astronomically.


When it comes to assessing the implications of John McCain's and Barack Obama's tax plans, the vast majority seem to side with Bank Credit Analyst managing editor Martin Barnes: 'There are attempts to make the Obama-McCain difference big; but they are not that big, really.'


Barron's Jim McTague begs to differ. 'The vast majority... is wrong.'


Obama would have the top 1% of income-tax payers handing over an average of $93,700 more - to $652,900. McCain would reduce the group's taxes by $48,860 to $510,320. While appealing, it fails to address the impact such a blow to the super-rich's disposable income could have:


These folks tend to plow a lot of their money into businesses -- from family operations to blue-chip stocks -- to say nothing of shopping trips and travel. In other words, cutting their after-tax income could deal another blow to an already-hobbled economy.


Investment strategist Michael Aronstein notes a similar plan, implemented by Herbert Hoover during the Great Depression, sucked 'much-needed investment capital out of the markets and into the hands of bureaucrats, delaying the turnaround.' Looking ahead ten years, the difference between the two is far from insignificant. Obama would siphon about $800B out of corporate coffers, while McCain's plan would reduce the government's take by $600B.


Analysis by independent economist Allen Sinai measured the impact of the Bush administration's tax cuts: Without them, GDP would have been 0.7% less each year from 2001-2006, and unemployment would have been 1.2% higher.


Wachovia chief economist John Silvia notes corporate and capital-gains tax hikes would impede foreign investment once the world gets wind that it's more expensive to do business in the U.S.


All this is not to say that an Obama win spells sure disaster:


Obama could get lucky... Oil prices could fall to $50 a barrel, or a Tom Edison might turn crab grass into jet fuel. Better yet, Obama, who's no dummy, might think twice about raising taxes during the worst financial crisis in 78 years.

I checked the IBD article, it was an editorial. I could just have just as easily cite this one http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/business/31view.html?_r=2&em=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1220731614-0/AYZRM2Fm0Yev52MEVnfQ

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 9/6/2008 3:42:32 PM
Author: LAJennifer

Date: 9/6/2008 3:38:13 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 9/6/2008 12:07:11 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/6/2008 10:45:23 AM
Author: stone_seeker
I love all the attention Palin is bringing to the McCain camp. You couldn''t find one media outlet let along Pricescope thread talking about McCain. Everything was Obama, Obama, Obama. Once all the titillating rumors subside (Obama has his share also but Republicans want to keep the attention on Palin and McCain), there are now millions more people focusing on what McCain has to say which was the genius about this selection.

The democrats and elite media (e.g. NBC) have all fallen for it. I cant wait until this thread reaches 100 pages with the final post being about what she''s wearing on inauguration day.

MOVING ON (once again)...I agree! People are definitely more interested in the McCain/Palin ticket than ever before, whether they love it or hate it. More people tuned in to watch McCain & the RNC than Obama & the DNC...a good sign when you''re trailing...

IndyGirl: I admire your tenacity.

But you are fighting a losing battle here. There are going to be those that want to deliberately misinterpret each post you make. If you get bogged down in defending yourself, it ceases to be about the real subject. Kudos to you for sticking with it though.

Ditto.

Thritto.

In other news, I just read this interesting article. Could have been posted in either the Obama or Palin thread, but I chose to post it here because it''s............GASP.............Pro Sarah Palin! If anything I think DF will like it.

Obama''s great skill is self-advancement

 

[luckystar112]

Oh, and here is a link to a video of her supporters in Wasilla supporting her after her speech. Look at how TOOTHLESS they all are! Why, they''re savages!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf-y6luFRw8

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/6/2008 4:08:13 PM
Author: luckystar112
Date: 9/6/2008 3:42:32 PM


Thritto.

In other news, I just read this interesting article. Could have been posted in either the Obama or Palin thread, but I chose to post it here because it's............GASP.............Pro Sarah Palin! If anything I think DF will like it.

Obama's great skill is self-advancement

"But when Ms. Palin says that he has never written anything except two memoirs -- i.e. zero even in the Illinois senate -- she is telling the plain truth. He is a tapestry of pretty words, who seems to think words alone, such as "hope," and "change," can solve his nation's and the world's problems."

We've already debunked this as a falsehood, as well as other parts of his column. Next...

 

[trillionaire]

She is gutsy though.

"Gov. Sarah Palin: Life & Times
Palin turns a remark by State Sen. Ben Stevens (son of Ted Stevens) into a fashion statement. Stevens commented that people living in the Mat-Su Borough, an area northeast of Anchorage, including Wasilla, are "just Valley trash." Palin and her daughter Piper, left, model T-shirts emblazoned with the motto "Proud to be Valley Trash" in July 2004 in Wasilla."
(AP PHoto)

ETA: I didn't mean this to be offensive, which is why I made sure to include the context. Like I said, she is gutsy.