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JohnQuixote

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Date: 7/9/2006 8:35:03 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
Okay... I have another question and I figured I'd just keep it in this thread...

Maybe I missed Diamonds 101A - but is there any structural reason why there cannot be 10 main 'arrows' in a long cut such as an oval? When I look at the pics, the area with most scintillation is the area where the facet points are closer together. It seems like you could reproportion the cut so that you would have in effect, TWO side 'arrows' on each side in addition to the top and bottom 3. If is not structurally sound (I don't know the specifics of carbon cutting) that's one thing... but if it's just that no one has tried it (or maybe they have and someone can show me how it failed?) I'm left wondering - why not? Why is it always in 8s/4s? I saw that gorgeous six sided stone (but have yet to hear back on the details of it)... why not 10? or 12 for that matter! lol
Hey Cehra.

Diamond cutting came from fewer, larger facets. Cardinal Mazarin designed the first cross-cut diamond, which was the beginning of the brilliant style of cutting. In the early 1700s Peruzzi refined the first 58 facet brilliant cut. Old mine cuts were common by the early 18th century and the old European cut was developed later in the 19th century. The shape and size of those old cuts depended entirely on the rough. The development of tools - like the diamond saw - allowed further evolution of the round brilliant by Morse, Tolkowsky, etc., as well as many fancy shapes we have come to know and love. Shapes like the traditional round brilliant, and popular ancestors like the cushion, have endured for generations because they enjoy a balanced facet arrangement that performs in sizes large and small.

To answer your question - In the present there are many cuts blocked in configurations other than the traditional 8 cut. For example, "Solasfera" diamonds are 10-cuts with added facets which are beautiful. Many such cuts exist. You can find a list of proprietary and patended diamond cuts here: http://www.gia.edu/pdfs/cutupdatechart_0405.pdf
 

JohnQuixote

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Date: 7/9/2006 1:27:49 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

My search is stuck right now on figuring out 100% sure that cushion is the stone for me. I think it is though :) I need to go find out about the canary stones... should be interesting! I'll keep you posted :) In the mean time, any more ideas - keep 'em coming!!
Cehra, I see you've been pointed to some great links in this thread, but you asked me to comment, so here's what I had for you.


The Cushion cut is based on the old mine cut. They are not quite as brilliant as modern rounds but the larger facet structure results in more dispersion/fire. Radiants can perform like this too. Some cushions have large culets but the new ones often have small or no culets. As a general rule, you can seek a table from 54-62 and depth between 59-64. That will put you in a range worth investigation.

As to your query in the other thread (regarding settings), a cushion will not have the light return or ideal-scope image of a modern round, but light entering the crown will return properly if it's well cut. So - it won’t hurt to have a reflective setting underneath, but any setting is fine for a cushion.

Here are 3 common configurations. The crown is the same but the pavilion varies. The pavilion with 4 mains (bottom left) is the configuration in which we’ve observed the best consistent performance over time. It’s rare to see the 8 main configuration (bottom center). The third configuration (bottom right), while available, is not typically in the same league for performance as the one on bottom left. As with many cases, much depends on the actual diamond. Square cushions are harder to get than rectangular, but they are available.

It looks like you're receiving a lot of input. I hope it's feeding your 'obsession.'


CushionPlots.jpg
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 7/10/2006 3:33:34 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 7/9/2006 1:27:49 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

My search is stuck right now on figuring out 100% sure that cushion is the stone for me. I think it is though :) I need to go find out about the canary stones... should be interesting! I''ll keep you posted :) In the mean time, any more ideas - keep ''em coming!!

It looks like you''re receiving a lot of input. I hope it''s feeding your ''obsession.''

Nah, it just makes me more hungry. I think the lack of light return information has me most frustrated.
 

JohnQuixote

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Cehra, here is a sample ideal-scope from a cushion cut. The pavilion configuration is that modified 4-main (graphic on the bottom right in my post above). D/T are 64/62.

As with any non-round, more than a simple reflector image is needed to determine performance, but this gives you an idea of light return in the static, face-up position.

Cushion6462ISExample.jpg
 

Mara

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would that be more of a modern cut JQ?
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 7/10/2006 7:27:51 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
Cehra, here is a sample ideal-scope from a cushion cut. The pavilion configuration is that modified 4-main (graphic on the bottom right in my post above). D/T are 64/62.

As with any non-round, more than a simple reflector image is needed to determine performance, but this gives you an idea of light return in the static, face-up position.
THANK YOU JOHN!!!!! (got more? hehe) That''s exactly what I was looking for. Not as *much* to see light performance as to clearly see the CUT of the stone. Posting the additional picture was awesome! Do you perchance have pictures like that of DIFFERENT cushion cuts? I''d like to see some comparisons. Also, if you have an exact cut diagram of *that* stone (or any other that you might post) I''d soooooo appreicate it.

I really appreciate this John... you''re scratching my itch! Yay!!!
 

Cehrabehra

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I attached a file to this post, not sure how it works or how to post pics yet... but I REALLY like this stone. See that huge white flash of light from the facet that is tapered toward the culet and almost pear shaped? What cut makes that? I want a halo of those around a med/small culet on a long stone. I can see it in my head but I have no idea how to describe that in terms that can help my vendor find one.

RG17386.jpg
 

Cehrabehra

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ha! oh well... that was easy! Let me try adding some more pics I''ve been looking at...

Here''s one that has a cut that interests me but I''ve been told it''s a bad cut. I think it looks pretty as it is... but of course I defer to the masters.

What I like about it is that the eight facets are fairly evenly paced around the culet. And IMO it looks like it works well with a longer stone as well... I have no idea if this cut has a name though, if it does (for better or worse) I''d like to know it.

cushion facets.jpg
 

JohnQuixote

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Date: 7/10/2006 7:34:00 PM
Author: Mara
would that be more of a modern cut JQ?
That would be a qualified yes, Mara. When it comes to cushions there’s not a standard like with RB. Culets these days are smaller than on older cushions, and because we have modern tools we’re able to fashion them differently. In that sense this one is more modern. This varation looks similar to a barion; still cut based on 4 pavilion mains. It’s a configuration with good life that is very interesting.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 7/10/2006 7:30:37 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
Magnified photo.
I just have to add, that''s a beautiful stone... what were the stats on it?
 

Gypsy

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Um... YEAH! That was a NICE cushion, John. YUMO!

And um... would love information on the square cushion with the baguette setting posted too... John? What type of cut does that look like to you. It''s very close to my ideal.

Cehra-- the first two cuts John posted are the ones I was saying I favored. The second one particularly... Mmmm. So pretty.

I WANT A CUSHION, NOW. lol. Okay... so... I''ve been wanting a square cushion since the first time I saw one... but the lack of info was frustrating... this is fabulous though. Thanks Cehra for your curiousity... this is a great thread!
 

Kaleigh

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Love that stone John. It''s gorgeous. Can you say 20th anniversary present?? HA!! Need to work on hubby.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 7/10/2006 8:42:49 PM
Author: Gypsy
Um... YEAH! That was a NICE cushion, John. YUMO!

And um... would love information on the square cushion with the baguette setting posted too... John? What type of cut does that look like to you. It''s very close to my ideal.

Cehra-- the first two cuts John posted are the ones I was saying I favored. The second one particularly... Mmmm. So pretty.

I WANT A CUSHION, NOW. lol. Okay... so... I''ve been wanting a square cushion since the first time I saw one... but the lack of info was frustrating... this is fabulous though. Thanks Cehra for your curiousity... this is a great thread!
LOL Gypsy! Isn''t that baguette ring awesome? I don''t remember where I found it (don''t spank the newbie lol) and I know nothing about it... I *think* it was just an eyecandy picture posted in a cushion thread here on PS and there wasn''t any info on it. I''d gladly stick that puppy on my finger and call it a day ::whew:: LOL
 

mrssalvo

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I''m not usually a fan of baguette sidestones, but that pic with the cushion center
 

JohnQuixote

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Date: 7/10/2006 8:02:12 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

THANK YOU JOHN!!!!! (got more? hehe) That's exactly what I was looking for. Not as *much* to see light performance as to clearly see the CUT of the stone. Posting the additional picture was awesome! Do you perchance have pictures like that of DIFFERENT cushion cuts? I'd like to see some comparisons. Also, if you have an exact cut diagram of *that* stone (or any other that you might post) I'd soooooo appreicate it.

I really appreciate this John... you're scratching my itch! Yay!!!
I'm happy to scritch that itch, Cehra.
My plate's pretty full, but if it's possible to scare up another example or two I will.

Gypsy, Kaleigh & MrsS...Great to see you closet-cushion lovers coming out!


We sourced that one for a very cool customer in the Southwest in case you want to keep an eye out for it.


Here are the stats:

GIA
2.45 ct H VS2
8.49 x 7.41 x 4.75
64D 62T M-Stk

Sarin
47.9%P 14.0%C 2.1%G

And for Cehra, the diagram from its GIA report

Cushion6462Plot.jpg
 

JohnQuixote

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Date: 7/10/2006 8:42:49 PM
Author: Gypsy
Um... YEAH! That was a NICE cushion, John. YUMO!

And um... would love information on the square cushion with the baguette setting posted too... John? What type of cut does that look like to you. It's very close to my ideal.

Cehra-- the first two cuts John posted are the ones I was saying I favored. The second one particularly... Mmmm. So pretty.

I WANT A CUSHION, NOW. lol. Okay... so... I've been wanting a square cushion since the first time I saw one... but the lack of info was frustrating... this is fabulous though. Thanks Cehra for your curiousity... this is a great thread!
Gypsy, the square cushion Cehra posted looks like it has the standard 4-main pavilion (bottom left configuration from my post at the top of this page). It was made with an open culet, typical of older cushions.

Cehra, the white you asked about is a nice big surface reflection. Beautiful diamond & photo.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 7/10/2006 9:05:37 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 7/10/2006 8:02:12 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

THANK YOU JOHN!!!!! (got more? hehe) That''s exactly what I was looking for. Not as *much* to see light performance as to clearly see the CUT of the stone. Posting the additional picture was awesome! Do you perchance have pictures like that of DIFFERENT cushion cuts? I''d like to see some comparisons. Also, if you have an exact cut diagram of *that* stone (or any other that you might post) I''d soooooo appreicate it.

I really appreciate this John... you''re scratching my itch! Yay!!!
I''m happy to scritch that itch, Cehra.
My plate''s pretty full, but if it''s possible to scare up another example or two I will.

Gypsy, Kaleigh & MrsS...Great to see you closet-cushion lovers coming out!


We sourced that one for a very cool customer in the Southwest in case you want to keep an eye out for it.


Here are the stats:

GIA
2.45 ct H VS2
8.49 x 7.41 x 4.75
64D 62T M-Stk

Sarin
47.9%P 14.0%C 2.1%G

And for Cehra, the diagram from its GIA report
Thanks John - I can''t imagine how busy you are... but you must know that I appreciate your efforts! I do! I''m greedy, sorry! lol I don''t know how to read sarin yet... but the stats look very nice.
 

Gypsy

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Date: 7/10/2006 8:48:28 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

LOL Gypsy! Isn''t that baguette ring awesome? I don''t remember where I found it (don''t spank the newbie lol) and I know nothing about it... I *think* it was just an eyecandy picture posted in a cushion thread here on PS and there wasn''t any info on it. I''d gladly stick that puppy on my finger and call it a day ::whew:: LOL
No kidding. Such a beauty. Mmmm cushions. I really like''em. I''m really gonna enjoy your search for the right one. I can live vicariously.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 7/10/2006 9:09:05 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 7/10/2006 8:42:49 PM
Author: Gypsy
Um... YEAH! That was a NICE cushion, John. YUMO!

And um... would love information on the square cushion with the baguette setting posted too... John? What type of cut does that look like to you. It''s very close to my ideal.

Cehra-- the first two cuts John posted are the ones I was saying I favored. The second one particularly... Mmmm. So pretty.

I WANT A CUSHION, NOW. lol. Okay... so... I''ve been wanting a square cushion since the first time I saw one... but the lack of info was frustrating... this is fabulous though. Thanks Cehra for your curiousity... this is a great thread!
Gypsy, the square cushion Cehra posted looks like it has the standard 4-main pavilion (bottom left configuration from my post at the top of this page). It was made with an open culet, typical of older cushions.

Cehra, the white you asked about is a nice big surface reflection. Beautiful diamond & photo.
It is a beautiful stone... the surface reflection looks like it is off of the pavillion... am I correct?
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 7/10/2006 9:14:15 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 7/10/2006 8:48:28 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

LOL Gypsy! Isn''t that baguette ring awesome? I don''t remember where I found it (don''t spank the newbie lol) and I know nothing about it... I *think* it was just an eyecandy picture posted in a cushion thread here on PS and there wasn''t any info on it. I''d gladly stick that puppy on my finger and call it a day ::whew:: LOL
No kidding. Such a beauty. Mmmm cushions. I really like''em. I''m really gonna enjoy your search for the right one. I can live vicariously.
Good! you can help me keep my spirits up! This place is intoxicating! lol I feel so drunk I''m about to pass out! lol (not literally)
Here''s another pic I thought was fun... I''ll post a few more after.

yelcush.jpg
 

Gypsy

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Hmm wonder what color that one is.
GOG has this O diamond (don''t recall what cut it was sorry) that sparked some curiousity in me. Wonder if this one is close... or if this one is a true champagne.
 

widget

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Hi, Cehra

I haven't read all of this thread...I'm sort of techni-chalenged...so this might be way off base, but if you love the yummy stone in the last pictured you posted, have you considered looking at antique cushion cuts? Some can be absolutely stunning.

Here're pictures of two rings I found...the top one is from Nelsonrarities, the bottom from Singlestone.

Singlestone might be a good source because they specialize in old cut stones, both true antiques and 'neoclassical' (which I presume means recently cut old cuts). The one on the bottom is described as "neoclassical OMC"

Just a thought!

widget

Un-j75rw.jpg
 

Gypsy

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That's a great idea Widget! Glad you thought of it. I love browsing on singlestone (wish they would provide more information on thier diamonds though).

BTW: I really admire how you speak your mind Widget. I find I frequently agree with you.



ETA: I was just over there browsing... and nice taste! 4 carat H VS cushion posted above there. YUM!

 

Cehrabehra

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I posted about this ring in my "I think I found it!" thread... but the cut is worthy of further discussion on the whole cushion issue...

regent1.jpg
 

Cehrabehra

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This is the cut plot of the above stone.

regent2.jpg
 

Cehrabehra

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Cushion Facet Plots

I made this compilation of all of the different cuts of cushion I have found, as well as an oval and a round for reference. According to the GIA, Radiants are "cushion octagon modified brilliant" so I consdered the Radiant to be a cushion as well.

The first three are the three most popular "flavors" of "cushion" in the order they were listed in John''s diagram in this thread.

All of them are numbered for reference. Many of them I got off of PS, some I found on my own. It''s nice to see them all side by side like this, I think. And I know there are more out there... I''d love to see this collection of cushion cuts grow. I have a slightly larger copy on my desktop for reference.

I''d love to see some of these stones more "defined" - in words.

15cushions.jpg
 

JulieN

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I think radiants are usually cut cornered rectangular (or square) modified brilliants. Perhaps the octagon cushion is a flavor of radiant I haven't seen yet.

In any case, I think that they are not the least bit cushion-like.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 7/11/2006 5:12:33 AM
Author: JulieN
I think radiants are usually cut cornered rectangular (or square) modified brilliants.

In any case, I think that they are not the least bit cushiony.
I had never thought of them as cushion cuts exactly (though in retrospect it makes perfect sense)... but I ran across this today, which I thought was an interesting link. http://www.4diamond.com/Anatomy/ Check out #3 "Shape and Cutting Style". Is that information incorrect?

I find it a curiosity that the H&A square brilliant is considered a cushion when it attempts to mimic a round so completely.

I think one of the things that would be helpful in cushion education would be if these vastly different cutting styles continue being named specific things like "H&A Square Brilliant" and not just vague terms like "Brilliant Cushion" or "Modified Brilliant Cushion". I mean, the Regent cut (the large stone with 4 pictures at #7 is almost duplicated in #6 except for some fine additional facets in the pavillion that may be difficult to see in that drawing. The Regent is a "140.50 carat cushion-shaped brilliant cut" http://famousdiamonds.tripod.com/regentdiamond.html and #6 is a very similar cut for a much smaller stone.

The Old Mine Cut #10 and the Old European Cut #13, may not be considered true cushions, but they deserve a place here nonetheless for reasons I will go into in a moment...

#17 is squared on the ends, true... but if you look at the cut, it is a modified Regent Style which if you look very closely you can see is a direct decendent of Old Mine. Refer to #6 again as well. #17 is listed on the website I found it on as a "Cushion".

#2, #14, and #15 all have what I would consider a classic "brilliant" center, not modified from round standard much at all. But in my opinion, this is not an ideal cut for a long stone. It''s nice, but it could use some improvement - I''m sure some will disagree.

The names in black all came with the pictures and their accuracy is up in the air. The ones in white are as listed on site, and #ll has no information on it whatsoever.

I haven''t mentioned #4... it''s just odd to me LOL Ditto #12. That might not be a cushion, but it looked like it was a weird cousin so I let it join the reunion LOL!
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 7/11/2006 5:12:33 AM
Author: JulieN
I think radiants are usually cut cornered rectangular (or square) modified brilliants. Perhaps the octagon cushion is a flavor of radiant I haven''t seen yet.

In any case, I think that they are not the least bit cushion-like.
also... I think "cushion" is a catchall phrase for a lot of things... makes it very difficult to traverse.
 
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