Fancies Added to Cut Quality Search

[niceice]

Glad to hear that the Gem Advisor Files are coming!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

They are here Robin and todd.
You just need to tell Leonid their address and he will put the icon there

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/17/2005 1:58:11 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I mean building real 3D models from Sarin or Helium [...] not manulally consrtucted ones by entering data (and room for cheating).

How can this be ? For correctness, the perosn/firm taking the numbers would need not be an interested party in the selling of those stones, no ? And that sounds rather unlikely - technically.

(meant as an innocently technical question)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Can you ask you question in simple english Ana?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/18/2005 3:34:20 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Can you ask you question in simple english Ana?

You said: (approx) " I mean real 3D models from Sarin or Helium [...] not manulally consrtucted ones by entering data (with) room for cheating."

I was trying to ask: how can the "room for cheating" be avoided.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

By not accepting parametric models with manually entered data using perfectly symmetric models.

A 3D scan is the real diaomond - symmerty warts and cheated girdles and all in one small data file that consumers can run on their own computer using Gem Adviser.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/18/2005 7:58

8 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
By not accepting parametric models with manually entered data using perfectly symmetric models.


A 3D scan is the real diaomond - symmerty warts and cheated girdles and all in one small data file that consumers can run on their own computer using Gem Adviser.

Doesnt this put the users of the low end sarin/ogi models at an advantage?
The higher end scanners do a much better job of tracking the facets.
Even the higher end ones without all the patches wont track some facets properly at times.

 

[strmrdr]

To come clean PS search engine is getting a little too info-mercial for my liking.
The idealscope because its cheap and available to consumers I can see but beyond that im starting to see it as pushing one toy over another.
A lot of the PS vendors have a B-scope are they going to allowed to add them into the database also?
isee2?
imagem?
h&a pictures?
diamond movies?
the-new-toy-of-the-week-scope?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 3/18/2005 8:24:43 PM
Author: strmrdr
To come clean PS search engine is getting a little too info-mercial for my liking.
The idealscope because its cheap and available to consumers I can see but beyond that im starting to see it as pushing one toy over another.
A lot of the PS vendors have a B-scope are they going to allowed to add them into the database also? B-Scope costs the vendor $35 a stone (and the consumer too) and is not readily available from all vendors for easy comparison.
isee2?
imagem?

Gem Adviser files can be made by any upper end Sarin scanner that is available at every diamond manufacturer. This is free. There are many Sarin scanners with DiaVision capacity in USA and around the diamond cutting centers. Helium will make H&A''s quality scans - but it means an investment of 430 Brillianscope scans.

h&a pictures? I have no objection to H&A''s photo''s, but there is not any lab or research study that indicates that H&A''s guarantees a diamond is a top performer (many leaky steep deep and girdle cheated H&A''s are purchased by unsuspecting consuners - aside from the lack of standards for the actual patterns themselves).

diamond movies? make your own with Gem Adviser (surely you know this Storm? Choose your own lighting too)

the-new-toy-of-the-week-scope? AGS is using its ASET scope as part of its new Princess and round diamond cut quality grading. This is a very complex 3 colored Ideal-scope / FStm. Further evidence that the red reflector principle is sound.
I expect AGS ASET to become available on GemAdviser. After all they developed the idea using DiamCalc, and all DiamCalc users can easily make a virtual ASET scope.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/18/2005 7:58:8 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
By not accepting parametric models with manually entered data using perfectly symmetric models.

A 3D scan is the real diaomond - symmerty warts and cheated girdles and all in one small data file that consumers can run on their own computer using Gem Adviser.

Sure, but... my question must have not been too clear again

Arrrgh!

Here you talk about the quality of the GA model: that it should be true to nature and readable by buyers. Great, answer to another issue.

My question was about who enters the data and how it''s truthfullness (not realism) can be proven. After all a "realistic" model can be fabricated "warts and all". Even the match between model and diamond remains to be checked and is not guaranteed (the stock photos are used allot - why not GA stock photos ???).

From your answer to STRM, the GA-based presentation appears to be a cutter''s by-product (I''m thinking Indian export, but... what do I know?). If so, everyone down the line - retailers, buyers and Leonid''s database counted - gets assigned the same problem: to be able to do or at least claim the feasability of an instant reality-check. The check might involve the match between product and model, of course, but other points may come up as well.

I keep being stubborn about the Q because I believe the answer is there... and it would make a GREAT advantage for the GA, if talked about.

 

[niceice]

Date: 3/17/2005 1:48:16 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
They are here Robin and todd.
You just need to tell Leonid their address and he will put the icon there

Actually you might not be aware Garry that we had that conversation with Leonid some time ago, but clearly you realize that we''re not referring to the diamonds that we sell as not being able to be sorted by cut quality because we are amongst the few dealers here on PS that do provide truly in-depth analysis of the diamonds that we sell. The .gem files are available on every diamond details page that we publish via a graphic DiamCalc image or by script using the niceice.com/certcopies/(lab abbreviation)(reportnumber)/(reportnumber).gem string for instance, www.niceice.com/certcopies/gia14138599/gia14138599.gem as discussed with Leonid weeks ago. Some of our diamond details pages have .dmc files (.dmc for DiamCalc) but those are being changed so that the script used by PS will be able to grab the files from our site consistently...

So again, we''re glad to see that the addition of complete proportions information is going to be added to the search by cut quality segment shortly.

What Garry is referring to as "cheating" with regard to the DiamCalc files involes the difference between manually entering the data from the computerized proportions analysis into the DiamCalc program and downloading the information from the Sarin / OGI / Helium into the program. When the data is downloaded, the DiamCalc closes the field options for the data entry so that the output file can not be manipulated by the person creating the file as oposed to each field being able to be manipulated by the user if the data is entered manually. We download our data direct from the Sarin DiaMension.

Storm, we hear what you are saying about the infomercial concept, but don''t see an issue with PS reflecting the data that is offered by each vendor... Perhaps we are missing your point, it''s been known to happen

but the way that we see it, each customer can decide what data is important to them and what is not and simply clicks on the icon to view the data or doesn''t... Our goal is to provide as much data as possible and allow the consumer to make as educated a choice about their purchase as they want to. Some people click every link there is on a diamond details page and spend hours considering all of the information and other people buy a diamond after looking at little more than the lab report. At least they had the opportunity to do so. Understand that when a detail oriented vendor does not provide the results from certain "toys" on their diamond details pages and other vendors do, then the vendor who doesn''t spends most of their time explaining why they don''t provide the information instead of shopping for diamonds to sell, so it is often easier to add the feature of each device as it gains popularity than to fight it. Just yesterday one of our clients asked why we don''t put actual images of our diamonds on the web site as seen through our Symmetriscope and we responded by saying "because the DiamCalc actually does a really nice job of simulating that view and everytime you look at a diamond through the Symmetriscope the image changes depending on your exact vantage point but we''ll take the pictures for you if you''d like" and we did and he said "they really do look essentially the same, that''s cool" and we sold the stone... When we didn''t have Gem Ex reports on our site, at least ten people a day asked us for them... When we didn''t have clarity photographs on our web site, people asked for them. Everything that we make available on our diamond details pages is a direct result of specific repeated requests on the part of our customers. What amazes us is not that so many people want such detailed information, but rather that so many more people will buy a diamond from a vendor who provides none of it.

Gem Ex / Isee2 simply provide yet one more way to look at the diamond... $35.00 for a Gem Ex Brilliance Scope scan?!?! Maybe for a third of a carat... The cost varies by carat weight and escalates as the carat weight of the diamond increases... The checks that we write to Gem Ex exceed $4 - 5 K per month and we expect it is the same for most of the other vendors. It should be noted that we only pay for the scans of diamonds that we publish the scan results for and not for every scan that we take.

Ideal Scope / Symmetriscope / Firescope / Lightscope images? Essentially different names for various tools that revolve around the same concept of evaluating a diamond for "light leakage" or the ability to reflect colored light as cast upon the stone at various angles of reflection.

OGI / Sarin / Helium all provide insight into how the diamond is cut with varying degrees of accuracy...

DiamCalc and the ability to generate movies of the diamond being considered? Well... A lot of people from PS asked us to provide them with the results of the DiamCalc analysis before we decided to simply add it to our diamond details pages across the board and they don''t ask us for it now that we provide it so having it there saves us time in the long run because we don''t have to stop whatever we are working on to create the files for each person who asks...

We agree completely about Garry''s position regarding the use of H&A photos which is why we don''t market our diamonds on the premise of H&A as discussed in thie recent thread instead we consider the presence of a pattern to be an internal characteristic of the diamond.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Thank you Robin & Todd for your very detailed response.
I am sorry I thought you had an Ogi - and I have not been to your sight fora while - never knew you were doing real 3D scans.

Great stuff.
And you answered Valeria''s question.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/19/2005 2:13:28 PM
Author: niceice

What Garry is referring to as 'cheating' with regard to the DiamCalc files involes the difference between manually entering the data from the computerized proportions analysis into the DiamCalc program and downloading the information from the Sarin / OGI / Helium into the program. When the data is downloaded, the DiamCalc closes the field options for the data entry so that the output file can not be manipulated by the person creating the file as oposed to each field being able to be manipulated by the user if the data is entered manually. We download our data direct from the Sarin DiaMension.

Thanks

I was expecting a different argument.... At some point the idea that anyone can check the output of GA using the IdealScope sounded like the ultimate quality controll - simply because the exercise is basiclaly costless and do-able by buyers as well. Not unlike the H&A viewes allow checking H&A at the point of sale (at least to some extent). That the procedure leaves precission to the choosing of whoever the use is and his judgement is just an added benefit, IMO.


Aside this.
You say: "We agree completely about Garry's position regarding the use of H&A photos [...] instead we consider the presence of a pattern to be an internal characteristic of the diamond. "

Wow! This sounds very heart-warming to me

More to come by any chance ?