Fair pricing and advice for unique setting from retail store?

[tulnev]

Hello all,

I have been shopping with my girlfriend for an engagement ring. We have looked at the major online stores and in many retail stores. Ideally, I'd prefer to purchase a ring online to get access to more options and better pricing. However, we both agree that our favorite setting is a one-of-a-kind setting from a highly rated retail store on yelp. They don't allow pictures, so I'm not able to show other jewelers to reproduce it and to get a good estimate. If I want to get this setting, I think I'll have to buy the ring from this store. However, I feel that the pricing is high for the specifications:

---------------------------
Pricing:
They said: "A ring like this usually goes for $4k but I'd love to make you a customer and we maintain the ring for life. I can do it for $3,550."

Diamond:
GIA report #1166620179
0.57 carat VVS2-G
cut very good
5.42 - 5.48 x 3.19 mm
Depth 58.5 %
Table 59 %
Crown Angle 30.5°
Crown Height 12.0%
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet None
Polish Very good
Symmetry Very good
Fluorescence None
Clarity characteristics Pinpoint, Feather

My vague setting description: 14k white gold, 2 or 4 little diamonds next to the center stone, maybe cathedral-like or metal under-halo, more like solitaire, all side diamonds hand picked (VS2 SI1 Ex cut, precision cut), ~under 0.1 carats total

Setting price alone would be $2,500 (offering better price with diamond), so it wouldn't really make sense to buy this setting and a third party diamond.

"You have the option to pick whichever diamond you want but prices usually increase."

No returns but can exchange.
----------------------------------------------

Based on Blue Nile and James Allen, I think the diamond should be ~$1,800. This means the setting is $3,550-$1,800 = $1,750. My gut says this is a bit pricey for the setting, which doesn't have too many diamonds, isn't overly intricate, and is not a designer name. The additional cost may be due to their high overhead.

Ideally, I'd prefer G or H, a slightly bigger diamond (0.6-0.7 carat), less clarity (VS1/2), and an excellent cut to justify paying that price.

Any thoughts about the fair pricing and ideas for what I can do in this situation? What about negotiation strategies? They also said: "In case if you found something else, give me an opportunity and I'll do my best for you."

Thanks!

 

[headlight]

Rule #1: Do not buy a ring that already has the diamond. This is not a good stone. Can you send us a link so we can see what this mounting looks like? Buying an engagement ring isn’t about “doing what’s convenient”, as in one stop shopping. If it works out that way that’s great but what you have described here is not a great situation. And no returns, no way!

 

[tulnev]

Rule #1: Do not buy a ring that already has the diamond. This is not a good stone. Can you send us a link so we can see what this mounting looks like? Buying an engagement ring isn’t about “doing what’s convenient”, as in one stop shopping. If it works out that way that’s great but what you have described here is not a great situation. And no returns, no way!

I agree that it would be much better to select from loose diamonds. Unfortunately, the store doesn't allow pictures and there are no pictures of it online, so I can't show the mounting. My girlfriend has not found any other setting that compares to this one. In this unfortunate situation, would you completely give up on the setting? If I do that, I think she'll be disappointed

 

[Siamese Kitty]

I don't know why, but my gut says this is probably a stock jeweler setting from Stuller or the like. The way you describe the precision set stones and this arbitrary center stone seems like it could be them. (These are choices when you go to their website.) Anyway, it sounds crazy, but could you sketch out what you mean? This forum is awesome at finding things with even the smallest bit of guidance. Are the side stones in the band or in a halo?

 

[distracts]

Can you or your girlfriend draw us a picture of the setting? View from top and view from the side. I can’t reallt picture it from your description but if you do that, we’ll have a better idea what you want and may be able to find it somewhere.

I have never encountered a store that wouldn’t let me take pictures... that alone has me side-eyeing them as maybe trying to rip you off. Every store I go to irl is happy to let me take pics and price shop and they’ll be up front that they can’t compete with internet sellers on price but can provide other benefits. I do sometimes buy in person something I know I can get cheaper elsewhere if it is the exact thing I want and I want to support the business.

While this isn’t a good cut diamond, sometimes ignorance is bliss, and if it’s what your girlfriend REALLY wants and she doesn’t want to try to find it elsewhere, then another option is to go into buying it knowing it’s not the BEST you can get but it’s what makes her happiest.

 

[headlight]

Mountings can be changed, styles change, personal preference change... but the diamond is the diamond. And based on the poor quality of the diamond, I suspect the mounting is not of good quality, either. The lack of transparency is suspect. I just see a bad situation with no recourse. There’s millions of ring mountings out there (and to be made)... trust me, she can find something she will love from a reputable seller.

 

[Siamese Kitty]

These are random guesses, ha.

https://www.stuller.com/products/10...yId=23201&recommendationSource=CategoryBrowse

https://www.stuller.com/products/bu...dationSource=CategoryBrowse#/mounting-options

 

[flyingpig]

A random 0.56c G VVS VG cut costs about $1500 online.
A nice 14k setting ranges from $1000 to $1500 online.
Total $3000.

What your jeweler changes is actually reasonable at $3500. He's gotta pay his rent, utilities and insurance.

 

[tulnev]

I should have mentioned the store and provided some references. Maybe that could help. I apologize for not doing so.

It's called David & Sons in La Jolla San Diego: https://www.davidandsonsjewelers.com/

Yelp: https://www.yelp.com/biz/david-and-sons-fine-jewelers-san-diego-5

Additional references for their work:
1. snowflake custom setting: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...e-for-this-custom-setting.216681/post-4050734

2. pear custom setting: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pear-dilemma-solved.72126/post-1106108

 

[tulnev]

I don't know why, but my gut says this is probably a stock jeweler setting from Stuller or the like. The way you describe the precision set stones and this arbitrary center stone seems like it could be them. (These are choices when you go to their website.) Anyway, it sounds crazy, but could you sketch out what you mean? This forum is awesome at finding things with even the smallest bit of guidance. Are the side stones in the band or in a halo?

In the band. Good idea about the sketch. Next time I go back to the store to see it, I'll make sure to sketch it out right after. Unfortunately, I just left the area after vacation so it'll be a few months for the sketch.

 

[distracts]

I had been wondering if it might be like one of these:

All Engagement Ring Settings | Gabriel & Co.

Explore our engagement rings settings from wide variety of platinum, white gold, yellow gold and rose gold. Then you can place solitaire or diamond of your own choice.

www.gabrielny.com

3.24ct Old European Cut Diamond, Julia Solitaire - jewelsbygrace

3.24ct Old European Cut Diamond Julia Solitaire OEC

jewelsbygrace.smugmug.com

 

[Swirl68]

MANY of the settings in my local mom and pop jewelry stores are from Stuller.
Take a look through this Stuller catalog and see if you can find it. This store's link below lists their prices, but YMMV at your local stores. If you see it, it will give you a ballpark price anyway.

Owner and Designer

Owner and Designer

loveaffairdiamonds.jewelershowcase.com

 

[tulnev]

These are random guesses, ha.

https://www.stuller.com/products/10...yId=23201&recommendationSource=CategoryBrowse

https://www.stuller.com/products/bu...dationSource=CategoryBrowse#/mounting-options

The side diamonds were very small, and almost like little leaf shapes. They were also offset, so it's not symmetrical like the ones you guessed. Thanks for guessing!

 

[tulnev]

A random 0.56c G VVS VG cut costs about $1500 online.
A nice 14k setting ranges from $1000 to $1500 online.
Total $3000.

What your jeweler changes is actually reasonable at $3500. He's gotta pay his rent, utilities and insurance.

Do you think there's any room for negotiation?

 

[Siamese Kitty]

The side diamonds were very small, and almost like little leaf shapes. They were also offset, so it's not symmetrical like the ones you guessed. Thanks for guessing!

https://www.stuller.com/products/bu...dationSource=CategoryBrowse#/mounting-options

Final guess?

If you do end up working with them, I would push to see some better cut center stones and come back here and post the stats and we can help you. I wonder how much the price will/will not increase for at least a GIA XXX. (would still need to vet the stones, but that would be a good start)

It sounds like this is a setting where you may also want to consider wedding band options from the get go to be sure there is one your intended will like with the ring. Some people really want their rings to be flush and these leaves sound beautiful, but could pose an issue for that?

Finally, this is just me and I do actually like and own 14k, but what is the price difference for 18k? And if it is from Stuller, they have that white gold alloy that needs less rhodium plating. Might be something to look into and would give a clue if it's from them. I think it would be called 14k x 1?

 

[Siamese Kitty]

https://www.stuller.com/products/bu...Id=205388&recommendationSource=CategoryBrowse

https://www.stuller.com/products/12...yId=24107&recommendationSource=CategoryBrowse

https://www.stuller.com/products/12...yId=22150&recommendationSource=CategoryBrowse

https://www.stuller.com/products/bu...onType=recommendation&recommendationId=205388

I lied, few more ideas.

 

[tulnev]

https://www.stuller.com/products/bu...Id=205388&recommendationSource=CategoryBrowse

https://www.stuller.com/products/12...yId=24107&recommendationSource=CategoryBrowse

https://www.stuller.com/products/12...yId=22150&recommendationSource=CategoryBrowse

https://www.stuller.com/products/bu...onType=recommendation&recommendationId=205388

I lied, few more ideas.

Thank you so much for your input. I shall update this post with a sketch and more diamond option details next time I visit the store!

 

[MRBXXXFVVS1]

Please consider getting an excellent cut stone with excellent polish and excellent symmetry at a minimum! PSers will tell you cut is the most important C and it will impact sparkle.

If value and/or carat is most important to you, and you are open to lab diamonds, I'd recommend checking out Lightbox Jewelry and resetting some of their pendants into a ring setting. They have the best value at $800/carat!

 

[yssie]

Unfortunately the “no photos” request is now, if not commonplace, certainly much more common than it was just a few years ago - platforms like Pinterest and Instagram make it easy for unethical vendors to steal other jewellers’ custom designs. We see this sort of theft all the time here on PS; I personally have a zero tolerance policy and will not recommend vendors who are repeat offenders.

I took a quick look through their website. The designs - those featured on the site, anyway - are unremarkable in terms of uniqueness, but look to be nicely finished for the pricepoint.

The stone that you’ve posted is a chipped girdle waiting to happen, unless you’ll be putting it into a bezel or 6+ prongs. It does, however, face up huge for its weight!

 

[lovedogs]

I should have mentioned the store and provided some references. Maybe that could help. I apologize for not doing so.

It's called David & Sons in La Jolla San Diego: https://www.davidandsonsjewelers.com/

Yelp: https://www.yelp.com/biz/david-and-sons-fine-jewelers-san-diego-5

Additional references for their work:
1. snowflake custom setting: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...e-for-this-custom-setting.216681/post-4050734

2. pear custom setting: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pear-dilemma-solved.72126/post-1106108

We bought my original engagement set from David and sons in la jolla! Their settings are high quality, and pricing is mostly fair (I say mostly bc they have to pay rent, etc, so more expensive than online). However, their center stones aren't great. They sell lots of non gia graded stones, and other 'very good' gia stones (which actually means the cut is horrific).

I enjoyed working with them, but do not recommend buying from them in the end (if I had found PS before purchasing from them, I wouldn't have gone with them). I would try to sketch out the ring and we can help you find something similar with a much better center stone.

 

[SouthernElle]

Take mental pictures next time, I personally don’t think a setting is worth a bad stone. Did you mention the name of the setting? I visit the area regularly as I have family there. Next time I go down I could take a peek, if it’s before you would make it there. I never mind looking a jewelry and love La Jolla once I find a parking spot. Or maybe someone in the forum lives in SD and wouldn’t mind.

Also, ask your GF to scour the Internet and find pictures of all the elements she likes in a ring, even if they aren’t all in the same ring....if that makes sense. I sent a few pictures of different rings and never thought someone could put them together so well. I’m SO glad I didn’t go with a stock setting.

 

[sledge]

As @yssie, this stone faces up very large for it's weight.

It's because the weight is pushed out horizontally vs down in depth, creating a shallow stone with a large table and shallow crown angle.





For fun, I ran an HCA on the stone and was a little surprised to see this kick back at 1.9. Normally, we recommend considering stones with a score of 2 or less. However, in this case, I would NOT recommend this stone.



Expanding out the HCA data to see anticipated grades, you can see it's projecting a GIA grade of good (not very good that was actually assessed) and an AGS grade of 3-4.

As I feel cut quality is the most important feature of a diamond, I normally recommend stones that are GIA excellent and/or AGS ideal 0.

Putting anticipated grades aside, this stone will not be very lively and will exhibit much more white light return than rainbow flashes (fire). Additionally I would anticipate obstruction issues.

Have you examined this stone outside the (overly) bright jewelry store lighting? Ask to go outside, to an office with normal lights, near a window, etc. Also, see if the size of the diamond "shrinks" when you place it in a low lighting environment like the video below illustrates.

I understand your girl loves the setting, but I would recommend you swap this stone if anyway possible. If you can talk them into doing this, we can help further guide you to some alternate proportions, etc that will be more favorable.

 

[tulnev]

As @yssie, this stone faces up very large for it's weight.

It's because the weight is pushed out horizontally vs down in depth, creating a shallow stone with a large table and shallow crown angle.





For fun, I ran an HCA on the stone and was a little surprised to see this kick back at 1.9. Normally, we recommend considering stones with a score of 2 or less. However, in this case, I would NOT recommend this stone.



Expanding out the HCA data to see anticipated grades, you can see it's projecting a GIA grade of good (not very good that was actually assessed) and an AGS grade of 3-4.

As I feel cut quality is the most important feature of a diamond, I normally recommend stones that are GIA excellent and/or AGS ideal 0.

Putting anticipated grades aside, this stone will not be very lively and will exhibit much more white light return than rainbow flashes (fire). Additionally I would anticipate obstruction issues.

Have you examined this stone outside the (overly) bright jewelry store lighting? Ask to go outside, to an office with normal lights, near a window, etc. Also, see if the size of the diamond "shrinks" when you place it in a low lighting environment like the video below illustrates.

I understand your girl loves the setting, but I would recommend you swap this stone if anyway possible. If you can talk them into doing this, we can help further guide you to some alternate proportions, etc that will be more favorable.

Wow, thank you so much for the thorough analysis and explanation! I feel much more prepared for the next time I visit any store. I shall provide updates for everyone once I get a chance to revisit this store.

 

[Sunstorm]

Actually some designers today are not allowing pix to be taken of their jewelry. This is because of the Theft and intellectual property violations are extremely difficult to prove and downright impossible to enforce.

Everything is copied these days. I hate it. If I love the work of another designer, I respect them enough to buy it from them even if I could produce something similar for much less. I value others’ hard work and creativity.

I am not saying that in this case it is a unique design, just talking in general why some may not allow pix. I do find that a bit silly because if someone wants to copy something, they will

 

[Swirl68]

The stone that you’ve posted is a chipped girdle waiting to happen, unless you’ll be putting it into a bezel or 6+ prongs.

I don’t understand. It it because of the shallowness maybe?
Certificate says girdle is thin to slightly thick (which I thought was good) and I see a couple of feathers on the plot, but it’s a vvs2.

 

[yssie]

I don’t understand. It it because of the shallowness maybe?
Certificate says girdle is thin to slightly thick (which I thought was good) and I see a couple of feathers on the plot, but it’s a vvs2.

Yes - very shallow crown plus not-particularly-steep pavilion plus not particularly thick girdle. Girdle thickness is measured as a percentage of diameter, so a 3% girdle on say a 0.5ct is much thinner, in absolute mm, than a 3% girdle on a 5ct.

However, with a stone of this size, a six prong setting with equidistant prongs creates an "external prong circumference" (not a technical term, just my description) that fully protects the diamond circumference - the diamond girdle will never come into contact with any flat surface. Assuming the stone isn't chipped during setting, this is a reasonably protective option.

 

[Swirl68]

Yes - very shallow crown plus not-particularly-steep pavilion plus not particularly thick girdle. Girdle thickness is measured as a percentage of diameter, so a 3% girdle on say a 0.5ct is much thinner, in absolute mm, than a 3% girdle on a 5ct.

However, with a stone of this size, a six prong setting with equidistant prongs creates an "external prong circumference" (not a technical term, just my description) that fully protects the diamond circumference - the diamond girdle will never come into contact with any flat surface. Assuming the stone isn't chipped during setting, this is a reasonably protective option.

Interesting. Thank you. I have been shopping for an oval and have been on the lookout for a shallow one to increase spread. I will need to keep this in mind.

 

[yssie]

Forgot to attach the pic and too late to edit -

 

[EllieTO]

Take mental pictures next time, I personally don’t think a setting is worth a bad stone. Did you mention the name of the setting? I visit the area regularly as I have family there. Next time I go down I could take a peek, if it’s before you would make it there. I never mind looking a jewelry and love La Jolla once I find a parking spot. Or maybe someone in the forum lives in SD and wouldn’t mind.

Also, ask your GF to scour the Internet and find pictures of all the elements she likes in a ring, even if they aren’t all in the same ring....if that makes sense. I sent a few pictures of different rings and never thought someone could put them together so well. I’m SO glad I didn’t go with a stock setting.

Hi!! Just found this thread while searching for San Diego jewellers to get a new ring resized. I live in the area, I'd be happy to do some detective work if @tulnev can do a better job describing it. All I understand so far is that it's asymmetrical with 2 or 4 marquise or pear shaped side stones?