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Fair Price?

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tos1010

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
13
1.98, H, Vs2, Excellent polish and sym, 58, 62.4, faint Fluorescence

for $17k

Done a bit of research but this seems like a really good deal. Any help would be much appreciated!
 
Please post the crown and pavilion angles.
 
I think the experts here would want to know more about the angles, etc, and/or see GIA report (pics) before they can offer advice.
 
It’s a fair price for stats alone. Those stats start at around 14k. What you need to check is the cut and plot of the particular diamond. Google HCA tool and use it.
 
Need more info, but seems fair with the limited info we have.

Found a 1.821ct H SI1 for $15k. Slightly less carat weight, but my guess is the dimensions are near identical (as some of the weight is in depth and won't be visible anyhow). Also, 1 clarity grade drop but depending on plot of VS2, it may not be a huge deal.

This one is a super ideal diamond meaning well cut, true H&A symmetry, etc.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3408406.htm
 
Not a fan. We normally like to see a max crown of 35.5 with a pavilion of 40.6, and really prefer a crown of 35 or less. Also the stone is a little deep. And that's a nasty plot for a VS2.


printimages.jsp


printimages.jsp
 
Using ACTUAL dimensions of this stone and the WF stone I mentioned, you can see the actual size difference between the two. There is only about 0.10mm difference or 1/256th of an inch so it's not really very visible to the (normal) human eye.

1.98ct on the left, WF 1.821ct on the right

Capture.PNG
 
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Agree. Pass because of bad angles.

Try using this criteria to filter selections:
  • Table 54-57
  • Crown 34-35
  • Pavilion 40.6-40.9
  • Depth 60-62.5
 
For both the stones you have posted I would want to see an aset image to check on the leakage. The crown/pavilion angles are slightly out of
what we usually look for. An aset image would let us know if the stone has leakage or was good. If you cant get aset images then I'd pass
on these stones and try to stay within the ranges that sledge posted above.

Also, 40.6 pavilion pairs better with 35 crown and 40.9/41 pavilion pairs better with 34 crown.
 
much appreciated. I saw both of these in person but I am fairly new to the process. thanks!
 
Personally I would pass because of high depth and high crown angle. HCA score is also a 4.9, which is pretty bad. Not worth it to me at $19.5k. With the amount of money you're putting on a diamond, I would rather go for a 1.75 ACA or ES from WF.

upload_2018-8-13_20-11-24.png

Try to find a diamond with HCA between 1 and 2.

It looks like your guy is showing you poorly cut diamonds. You will notice that the diamond will be dull and unimpressive outside of the store lighting. If you feel that it is worth it, then by all means purchase it. Personally, I would look elsewhere. You can probably find better deals and better quality diamonds on BN, JA, etc.

Also, many of the people on here are probably going for super ideal diamonds, so they are even more critical.
 
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good to know. seems to be a common trend in the cut which is disappointing. The other 2 did have a HCA score of 2 and 2.1 though.
 
Looks like yet another steep-deep combo. Have you tried asking him to show you diamonds with the angles @sledge posted above?
 
As @skypie pointed out, if you use the criteria I posted you will get a great cut diamond in a budget you like. I will try to find a few later, just been tight on time.

You seem disappointed there is so much focus on cut quality. That disappoints me as I personally feel that is the personality of a diamond; however, I am a big enough of a person to realize you may have different priorities.

Can you better explain what you.are looking for and how we can better help you? Please prioritize the 5 C's, yes 5 as I'm including cost/budget.
 
My 2 cents, but I also think your guy is showing you poorly cut stones. Why is it exactly that you prefer this store and jeweler? Fear of buying online? Friends or family used and strongly recommends this place?

I'm only asking because while I would prefer to work with a good local guy, I do not have very much tolerance for guys that don't have the product or the knowledge/data to help guide me to a good decision. So if I weren't getting what I needed, I wouldn't have problems going elsewhere. In today's world, there are too many options where you can get quality service & product to deal with anything that is sub-par.

If you can tell us the specific store you are looking at, then maybe we can find their virtual inventory (assuming it's listed online) and can filter through and find you some good options. But honestly, if you tell the jeweler the criteria I mentioned before, he should really narrow down the list for you and stop wasting your time.

Until then, here are some options from inventories that I can search. I have additional opinions on the matter, but will let you digest the info and form your own. We will be here to answer any follow up questions or concerns you may have.

1.802ct G SI1, 7.75x7/82mm, $18,431 wire (good table, great angles, G color)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3788915.htm

1.828ct H SI1, 7.85x7.87mm, $18,362 wire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947722.htm

1.901ct H VS2, 7.97x8.00mm, $19,298 wire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018641.htm

2.00ct H VS2, 8.09x8.04mm, $19,440 wire
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/WUSF-4825

2.118ct H SI1, 8.18x8.21mm, $20,327 wire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3634195.htm
 
Guys - thanks for the feedback. You really are pros. 3-4 of my friends have gone to this guy. I guess that doesn't necessarily mean he is good but they were happy with the result. That being said, when explaining what to look for they were not so focused on dimensions.

I am going to send an email with those dimensions. here is what I generally was looking for:

~1.85-2.00
G-H
VS1-VS2
excellent cut,
excellent polish
Targeting $18-20k

Please tell me if that is simply not possible in this budget.

Also sorry for all the questions but if the HCA score was 2 for the 1.98 why are people so concerned about the dimensions? thanks, this is a great learning experience.
 
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You seem to be going in circles. I will leave it there.
 
OP

Maybe read this and it’ll clear it up for you. Just because GIA says cut is excellent it doesn’t mean that it performs well, at least to our standards. Again, lots of us are gung ho on super ideals. If you don’t care for them then by all means go for it.

https://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/

What we are trying to do is get you a much better performing diamond for less money than what you’re being quoted.

Also, know that HCA is just a screening tool. Anything after 2 we generally discard. Scores between 1 and 2 still require some vetting. It doesn’t mean that all diamonds that fall in between 1 and 2 are great performers.
 
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@sledge posted several diamonds above that meet your requirements. Did you not see them?

tos1010 said:
Guys - thanks for the feedback. You really are pros. 3-4 of my friends have gone to this guy. I guess that doesn't necessarily mean he is good but they were happy with the result. That being said, when explaining what to look for they were not so focused on dimensions.

I am going to send an email with those dimensions. here is what I generally was looking for:

~1.85-2.00
G-H
VS1-VS2
excellent cut,
excellent polish
Targeting $18-20k

Please tell me if that is simply not possible in this budget.

Also sorry for all the questions but if the HCA score was 2 for the 1.98 why are people so concerned about the dimensions? thanks, this is a great learning experience.
Click to expand...
 
I did. I was replying to the post that asked me what i was looking for. thanks for all the info and patience (especially to scarsmum lol ). i will send the ideal dimensions to my guy to see what he can find.

this has been super helpful!
 
What's most important to you -- cut, color, clarity, carat weight or cost?

What's 2nd? 3rd? ...etc

Just to recap....
  • HCA is an elimination tool, not the holy grail but generally identify stones that COULD be potentially well cut.
  • Angles don't lie.
  • Because GIA uses funky rounding and averaging you cannot always trust the exact angles shown on a GIA report. While close, being off a little can drastically change cut quality.
  • Because of the above I like to use AGS proportions chart to see if I'm "deep into" or on the "fringe" of ideal territory. If on the fringe I become concerned because of that rounding.
  • 35.5 crown / 40.6 pavilion is the fringe
  • If you find a potential stone, request ASET or idealscope images to confirm all the above.
  • 1.98ct has a 36/40.6 angle combo and IMO pushing the fringe too much. An ASET may prove us wrong but unlikely. Even if so, you need to really make sure that is an eye clean VS2 -- the inclusion plot was nasty and I've seen many SI1's with cleaner plots.
  • 1.82ct has 36.5/40.6 angle combo that is worst than the 1.98.
  • 1.95ct has worst angles of all at 36.5/41, 63.1 depth and 80 LGF's. The stone is cut deep for weight, will be dark and the LGF will create a splintery look.
At the end of the day, it's your money so you can spend as you wish. The recommendations made by myself and others was to get you a kick ass stone for the money. IMO the stones your guy has presented is not kick ass at all.
 
tos1010 said:
I did. I was replying to the post that asked me what i was looking for. thanks for all the info and patience (especially to scarsmum lol ). i will send the ideal dimensions to my guy to see what he can find.

this has been super helpful!
Click to expand...
That’s the idea! If you want to keep working with this guy it shouldn’t be too much longer until he realizes that you’re not a sucker.
 
Thanks again. I am going to see the 1.98 again to see if it passes the eye test. Seems like I should rule it out anyways due to the proportions.

I also sent him an email asking what he recommends for table, crown, pavilion, depth to test his knowledge.
 
Buy a handheld ASET scope to take with you. It can be used on the 1.98 or any other stone you look at while there.
 
Alright guys I went and saw the 1.98 today. I couldn't get my hands on an ASET scope but it was def "eye clean" and clean through a 10x loupe.

He also put it under the microscope at 30x and 50x and I was able to see them slightly but doesn't look anything close to as bad as the plot. basically I see two small crystals.

The price is $15.6k if I ship out of state. Given it is eye clean, are the dimensions "good" enough where you feel this is a decent deal?
 
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