Evaluating jadeite (feicui)

[Crimson]

I love the color and shape; it’s like a magical drop of moonlight! Would love to see the finished product!

OK, will try to take a photo tomorrow ! Just realised I don’t have a photo of it.

@Crimson Thanks so much! I see now how color roots are supposed to look!

You’re welcome!

 

[DKT]

@Autumn in New England So happy to hear this! I shall let the jeweller know - he’ll be thrilled. I was too busy to see the ring when it was finished. By the time I got there I assumed it had been sold but it hadn’t. What a pity! Apparently, some customers deemed it too large. As we and @mellowyellowgirl know, there is no such thing as a “too big” fabulous ring so I bought it!
Speaking of fab things, here are some jadeite pieces I visited over the weekend.
@Starstruck8 the third photo is of some Chinese Deco inspired pieces.

I love the ones in the 2nd Pic. Could you share their price?

 

[Bookwyrm]

Haha, we are best friends forever. He cannot wear the purple star ring , it is a women’s style ring, so… yay for me!
Btw just a note re: glassy jadeite, if and when you look for it, think about lightbulbs. Some have a warmer, yellowish light and some have a pure white light. Those with the white light are considered more desirable and cost more. They should have that open and shut eye effect. Ideally, they should glow without any help from metal backing and you should be able to see through them

Ahhh lucky you! You truly find the most exquisite jewels!

Thank you for the note on the glassy jadeite; I think I'd prefer a pure white light. Do you think it's better to have it set without a metal backing, or would it be too transparent? I don't know if I'd want to be able to see my finger through the jadeite Ahhh this thread just KEEPS adding more and more things to my wishlist!!

How are you finding your star sapphire rings? I think I've heard it's difficult to get strong stars in a saturate royal blue material, so would the sapphires with the strongets stars have to be lighter in colour and really transparent? The one that my friend was hoping to purchase but unfortunately sold was a really pretty light grey shade.

And just curious, IF one were to visit Singapore (and mostly for jewellery sight seeing haha), how many days would you recommend?

 

[Crimson]

I love the ones in the 2nd Pic. Could you share their price?

Hi @DKT the rings are from On Cheong.
The one with the rubies is SGD23K and the one with the sapphires is SGD15K.
Yvonne from On Cheong kindly sent the photos with the prices and also on her hand so you can compare them.

 

[Crimson]

Yes please!!!!!! I would love to know!

I have sent a message to Serene via instagram. Will let you know when she replies! She has a full-time job and manages the site now and then so it might take a few days.

 

[Crimson]

Ahhh lucky you! You truly find the most exquisite jewels!

Thank you for the note on the glassy jadeite; I think I'd prefer a pure white light. Do you think it's better to have it set without a metal backing, or would it be too transparent? I don't know if I'd want to be able to see my finger through the jadeite Ahhh this thread just KEEPS adding more and more things to my wishlist!!

How are you finding your star sapphire rings? I think I've heard it's difficult to get strong stars in a saturate royal blue material, so would the sapphires with the strongets stars have to be lighter in colour and really transparent? The one that my friend was hoping to purchase but unfortunately sold was a really pretty light grey shade.

And just curious, IF one were to visit Singapore (and mostly for jewellery sight seeing haha), how many days would you recommend?

I have another star sapphire that is less translucent; and another star ruby that is also not as translucent. With them, it is easier to see a clear star with a focused light . The translucent stars more easily show stars in all sorts of light but the contrast between the body and star is less stark. The blue one has a higher dome so the star can move more. It is really fun to make the star run all over.
How many days? Haha., depends on how wild you want to get and how much you want to to see. There are all the designer stores on Orchard Road, including Harry Winston and Graff; Cartier, Bulgari and Tiffany. I regard them as amusement. For serious buying I would rather go where jewellers really know their stones.
I guess one could spend a day or two at Orchard Road’s big and small jewellery boutiques inc JannPaul and Asiatique, one day in Chinatown (you could probably spend a couple of hours at On Cheong itself), and one day around Raffles Hotel and the civic district. I have heard about fab jewellery shops in Little India but haven’t been to them — one of my friends bought a pendant, very intricately made of natural seed pearls. I would also suggest a special trip to Dempsey to visit one of our oldest jewelers, BP De Silva; and a trip to Caratell at Handy Road. There are also jewelers who will see you only by appointment, at an office.
Anyway, you can’t just jewelry shop. You’ll have to stop and eat, and enjoy the local sights!

 

[Starstruck8]

@Starstruck8 the third photo is of some Chinese Deco inspired pieces.

That's interesting, @Crimson. Those are pretty much what I would imagine if asked to visualize 'Chinese Deco'. They are also like what I found when I googled it.

But the magnificent H. H. Kung ring isn't much like them. It's Chinese in using jadeite and deco in the strong clean geometry. But beyond that,,, It seems to have no obvious Chinese motifs, nor does it have much of the typical deco detail. So was this 'simplified deco' (maybe 'Bauhaus-Chinese-Deco') a style at the time? Or was the style of the ring a one-off, loosely inspired by ideas floating around at the time? Given the provenance, this is plausible. Or was it just that with a piece of jadeite like that, best to keep the setting simple?

 

[Crimson]

That's interesting, @Crimson. Those are pretty much what I would imagine if asked to visualize 'Chinese Deco'. They are also like what I found when I googled it.

But the magnificent H. H. Kung ring isn't much like them. It's Chinese in using jadeite and deco in the strong clean geometry. But beyond that,,, It seems to have no obvious Chinese motifs, nor does it have much of the typical deco detail. So was this 'simplified deco' (maybe 'Bauhaus-Chinese-Deco') a style at the time? Or was the style of the ring a one-off, loosely inspired by ideas floating around at the time? Given the provenance, this is plausible. Or was it just that with a piece of jadeite like that, best to keep the setting simple?

You ask such interesting questions, @Starstruck8.
Geometric design features strongly in Chinese culture.
As I was composing this answer, I happened to look at my drinking cup, a gift from China. It’s in the shape of an octagon.
In China, an eight sided geometric figure represents the four cardinal directions and the other four in between them, I.e., North-East, North-West. South-East and South-Wesr. So a ring with that shape would be fitting for rulers or leaders, who are king of all they survey.
Some photos of a hotel that I stayed at in China.
It features beautiful geometric designs.
In the first photo you can see a series of openings along a long passageway .
The second photo shows the entrance to my suite. It is a moon portal.
The third photo shows the calligraphy corner in my suite, with geometric panels.
I was quite taken by the lavish interiors. Fortunately I had a generous host and didn’t have to pay for the stay!

 

[Crimson]

I love the color and shape; it’s like a magical drop of moonlight! Would love to see the finished product!

Here it is！The upper portion is a bow with diamonds.

 

[Seastheday]

Here it is！The upper portion is a bow with diamonds.

Exquisite! I love the dewy magic of the moonstone drop contrasting with the sparkle of the diamonds!

 

[Starstruck8]

Thank you, @Crimson! I see your point. I could add the Temple of Heaven, the traditional layout of cities (grid oriented to the cardinal directions) and the traditional siheyuan. Also, the restrained (but expensive!) simplicity supposed to be shown by high officials. The H. H. Kung ring would fit that very well.

When I visited Beijing, I didn't stay in a hotel like that...

 

[DKT]

Hi @DKT the rings are from On Cheong.
The one with the rubies is SGD23K and the one with the sapphires is SGD15K.
Yvonne from On Cheong kindly sent the photos with the prices and also on her hand so you can compare them.

Thank you Crimson. The ring with the ruby is lovely, although the jadeite appears more saturated in your pics.

 

[Crimson]

Thank you Crimson. The ring with the ruby is lovely, although the jadeite appears more saturated in your pics.

Yes, that’s what is meant by the saying “jadeite eats light” - they pop in bright light - which was of course just above the showcase. It is the same reason that I said the lavender jadeite fish didn’t look as good as in my photos. Some lavender ones actually look worse in light. Best to see them in person if you happen to be around the area.

 

[Crimson]

Thank you, @Crimson! I see your point. I could add the Temple of Heaven, the traditional layout of cities (grid oriented to the cardinal directions) and the traditional siheyuan. Also, the restrained (but expensive!) simplicity supposed to be shown by high officials. The H. H. Kung ring would fit that very well.

When I visited Beijing, I didn't stay in a hotel like that...

Yes, the Temple of Heaven is a classic example! I love the park, too, with the paths of roses and blue magpies.
Haha, that the only time I stayed in such a hotel in China. It was smoggy outside so I was happy to have such a magical place to hide.
Here is another octagon I saw at the Forbidden City. It was on the ceiling of a pavilion in the imperial garden.


I also wanted to share this pair of jadeite earrings that I saw on Instagram today. Aren’t they gorgeous?

 

[LC2016]

Im lucky that a local Jadeite shop owner show this to me, which is not for sales. And my god they are spectacular

 

[Crimson]

Im lucky that a local Jadeite shop owner show this to me, which is not for sales. And my god they are spectacular

Yes, they are! Why are they not for sale? Already reserved?
Thanks for sharing @LC2016.

 

[LC2016]

Yes, they are! Why are they not for sale? Already reserved?
Thanks for sharing @LC2016.

Think he doesn't have a price in mind and is not ready to sell it. I wont be able to afford those anyway, think these are USD 260k +

 

[Pomelo]

The salesperson at the high end jadeite shop posted these pieces yesterday.

Thought it’d be interesting for everyone to see the prices! As a reminder, 1w = 10,000 RMB = approx USD 1,500 for easy calcs. Note that I haven’t seen any of these in real life.

I found it interesting to compare the prices of green vs (what I guess is comparable quality?) icy jade.

Also, I’d love to be enlightened - there are some icy jade pieces that seem to really glow! Is that due to a closed back / foil setting? Eg on pic 3, the 2.96w small pendant glows more than the others around it. Due to the price, I wouldn’t think it’s because of the material being substantially higher quality.

 

[Crimson]

The salesperson at the high end jadeite shop posted these pieces yesterday.

Thought it’d be interesting for everyone to see the prices! As a reminder, 1w = 10,000 RMB = approx USD 1,500 for easy calcs. Note that I haven’t seen any of these in real life.

I found it interesting to compare the prices of green vs (what I guess is comparable quality?) icy jade.

Also, I’d love to be enlightened - there are some icy jade pieces that seem to really glow! Is that due to a closed back / foil setting? Eg on pic 3, the 2.96w small pendant glows more than the others around it. Due to the price, I wouldn’t think it’s because of the material being substantially higher quality.

Wow, so many pieces!
Thank you for sharing all these photos, @Pomelo!
This is just a guess, but I think the pendant you mentioned has a metal back.
So does the biggest leaf-shaped one in the same photo. In the fourth photo, the leaf–shaped one on the extreme left also seems to have a metal back.
Certain shapes e.g. cabochons are more likely to show the light bulb effect.
The leaves are likely to be cut quite thin, so I don’t think they would be able to exhibit the light bulb effect on their own. There is a clear difference between the ones I’ve pointed out and the other leaves. As to which is better, it depends on consumer taste. Some people want the jadeite to glow on its own or want the jadeite next to their skin. Others would like the jadeite to be lit up all the time, so the metal back works best for them.

 

[Pomelo]

Wow, so many pieces!
Thank you for sharing all these photos, @Pomelo!
This is just a guess, but I think the pendant you mentioned has a metal back.
So does the biggest leaf-shaped one in the same photo. In the fourth photo, the leaf–shaped one on the extreme left also seems to have a metal back.
Certain shapes e.g. cabochons are more likely to show the light bulb effect.
The leaves are likely to be cut quite thin, so I don’t think they would be able to exhibit the light bulb effect on their own. There is a clear difference between the ones I’ve pointed out and the other leaves. As to which is better, it depends on consumer taste. Some people want the jadeite to glow on its own or want the jadeite next to their skin. Others would like the jadeite to be lit up all the time, so the metal back works best for them.

Thanks @Crimson , I think I’ll have “drag myself” to the store and look at the light bulb effect for “educational purposes”. What a chore!

 

[Starstruck8]

Yes, that’s what is meant by the saying “jadeite eats light” - they pop in bright light - which was of course just above the showcase.

Is it the amount of light that makes the pop, or is it the directionality of the light?

With more light but the same directionality, you would think that your eyes/brain would compensate, so you would not see much difference. But if you relace soft light with contrasty directional light, you get a different pattern of light and shade.

These are the purple jadeite rings:

(Left - bright directional light; Right - softer light)

These are the spectacular rings @Pomelo showed earlier. In the middle strip, the top (softer light) picture has been lightened in photoshop to roughly match the average tone of the lower (direct sun) picture. Judging by the more natural skin tone, it's only an artifact of the camera's choices that the first picture didn't look like this to start with:
(Top - softer light, as shot; Middle - lightened in photoshop; Bottom - direct sun)

Here is what I think is happening. In softer light, the brightness is pretty even across the cab, so your eye is drawn to the irregularities in the texture of the stone. This is not so attractive, but good for judging quality.

In more directional and contrasty light, you get a (soft edged) reflection from the back of the cab. This makes the brightness vary smoothly across the cab, which adds interest and disguises irregularities in the material. Also, the reflection patch contains more transmitted light, which is usually more saturated than the scattered light from the rest of the stone. So contrasty directional light makes even poorer stones look better. This is not so good for judging quality.

Anyway, that's my story, as someone who doesn't own a single jadeite cab... (But I have lots of other cabs.)

 

[Crimson]

Is it the amount of light that makes the pop, or is it the directionality of the light?

With more light but the same directionality, you would think that your eyes/brain would compensate, so you would not see much difference. But if you relace soft light with contrasty directional light, you get a different pattern of light and shade.

These are the purple jadeite rings:

(Left - bright directional light; Right - softer light)

These are the spectacular rings @Pomelo showed earlier. In the middle strip, the top (softer light) picture has been lightened in photoshop to roughly match the average tone of the lower (direct sun) picture. Judging by the more natural skin tone, it's only an artifact of the camera's choices that the first picture didn't look like this to start with:
(Top - softer light, as shot; Middle - lightened in photoshop; Bottom - direct sun)

Here is what I think is happening. In softer light, the brightness is pretty even across the cab, so your eye is drawn to the irregularities in the texture of the stone. This is not so attractive, but good for judging quality.

In more directional and contrasty light, you get a (soft edged) reflection from the back of the cab. This makes the brightness vary smoothly across the cab, which adds interest and disguises irregularities in the material. Also, the reflection patch contains more transmitted light, which is usually more saturated than the scattered light from the rest of the stone. So contrasty directional light makes even poorer stones look better. This is not so good for judging quality.

Anyway, that's my story, as someone who doesn't own a single jadeite cab... (But I have lots of other cabs.)

Thanks, @starstruck for your detailed answer and comparisons.
Would that apply only to cabochons or to other cuts as well?

 

[Crimson]

Thanks @Crimson , I think I’ll have “drag myself” to the store and look at the light bulb effect for “educational purposes”. What a chore!

Ooh, are you still in China, @Pomelo?

 

[Crimson]

I have sent a message to Serene via instagram. Will let you know when she replies! She has a full-time job and manages the site now and then so it might take a few days.

@mellowyellowgirl Serene replied! Screenshot below.

 

[CMN]

The salesperson at the high end jadeite shop posted these pieces yesterday.

Thought it’d be interesting for everyone to see the prices! As a reminder, 1w = 10,000 RMB = approx USD 1,500 for easy calcs. Note that I haven’t seen any of these in real life.

I found it interesting to compare the prices of green vs (what I guess is comparable quality?) icy jade.

Also, I’d love to be enlightened - there are some icy jade pieces that seem to really glow! Is that due to a closed back / foil setting? Eg on pic 3, the 2.96w small pendant glows more than the others around it. Due to the price, I wouldn’t think it’s because of the material being substantially higher quality.

Thought everyone might find it hilarious that I dreamt about the 18.96w piece last night

 

[Crimson]

Thought everyone might find it hilarious that I dreamt about the 18.96w piece last night

What a wonderful dream @CNM!

 

[Pomelo]

Is it the amount of light that makes the pop, or is it the directionality of the light?

With more light but the same directionality, you would think that your eyes/brain would compensate, so you would not see much difference. But if you relace soft light with contrasty directional light, you get a different pattern of light and shade.

These are the purple jadeite rings:

(Left - bright directional light; Right - softer light)

These are the spectacular rings @Pomelo showed earlier. In the middle strip, the top (softer light) picture has been lightened in photoshop to roughly match the average tone of the lower (direct sun) picture. Judging by the more natural skin tone, it's only an artifact of the camera's choices that the first picture didn't look like this to start with:
(Top - softer light, as shot; Middle - lightened in photoshop; Bottom - direct sun)

Here is what I think is happening. In softer light, the brightness is pretty even across the cab, so your eye is drawn to the irregularities in the texture of the stone. This is not so attractive, but good for judging quality.

In more directional and contrasty light, you get a (soft edged) reflection from the back of the cab. This makes the brightness vary smoothly across the cab, which adds interest and disguises irregularities in the material. Also, the reflection patch contains more transmitted light, which is usually more saturated than the scattered light from the rest of the stone. So contrasty directional light makes even poorer stones look better. This is not so good for judging quality.

Anyway, that's my story, as someone who doesn't own a single jadeite cab... (But I have lots of other cabs.)

Fascinating analysis, thank you so much!

I guess that’s akin to why @Crimson always says that jadeite “eats the light”? When I’m trying things on store, they shine a bright light on my face (if I’m trying in earrings/pendant) and are very happy to accompany me outside the store in daylight (I was shocked when I walked outside with that USD 550k ring with only a salesperson!).

Comparison of bright and softer indoor lighting



RE: Crimson’s question on whether it affects other shapes, I happened to try on some carved pixiu (mythical creature with the head of a dragon and the body of a lion). I didn’t get a chance to take a look at the pixiu in daylight but noted that the glow effect was weaker than a cabochon (is the terminology for this: less internal reflection of light?).

 

[Pomelo]

Ooh, are you still in China, @Pomelo?

Yes! We moved to Beijing a year and a half ago now; my husband is on a two year contract here so we’ll be leaving this summer sadly.

I spent my first year getting well acquainted with the wholesale pearl market in Beijing (Hongqiao) and have satisfied my pearl needs. So I’ve now moved onto jadeite, although I don’t trust my eyes enough to go into the wholesale gold & jade market (where quality and prices vary hugely), so I’m relying on a high end jadeite store near our apartment to train my eyes

 

[Pomelo]

Thought everyone might find it hilarious that I dreamt about the 18.96w piece last night

Haha of course you dream about the most expensive piece

I went into store this evening and tried on a few icy / glass pieces.

One of them was a leaf pendant but it was 4w rather than the 19w one, and here’s a comparison photo of the pendant without and with the foil backing (although it’s not too obvious because the foil backing could only come away at a ~45 degree angle - tagging @Crimson as we were discussing the foil backing).

I compared the leaf with a Buddha that cost more than three times as much. Both have a foil backing. The reason is the leaf has more cotton (described to me as “icy”) whereas the Buddha is cleaner material (“glass”).
The Buddha did glow a bit more, but it wasn’t particularly noticeable to my eyes.

 

[Starstruck8]

Thanks, @starstruck for your detailed answer and comparisons.
Would that apply only to cabochons or to other cuts as well?

I have no carvings in any material. So I'm free to indulge in evidence-free theorizing...

But yes, I think that applies to carvings as well. Flat lighting shows up the defects. Directional lighting brings out the glow.

Here's my story about glow: We see brightness as glow when our visual system can't make sense of it by its usual unconscious processing. The reflection of a light from the front of a stone is not seen as glow because our visual system correctly reads it as a reflection. The same applies to a sharp, hard-edged reflection of a light from the back of the cab. But if the reflection from the back is softened by scattering, our visual system doesn't recognize it as reflection, but interprets it as some sort of 'magical' glowing light inside the stone,

This is why clear glass ornaments don't glow (though they may be fascinating). It's why Lalique and others took to using opalescent and frosted glass, which do glow. It's why steel ball-bearings don't glow (our visual system reads the bright reflections as reflections), but pearls, with their equally bright but softer-edged reflections, do glow.

For any material there is a 'penetration depth', beyond which very little light makes the journey there and back to the surface. This depth depends on absorption and scattering.

A piece that's much thicker than the penetration depth won't glow, whatever the lighting. It's only the material close to the surface, at less than the penetration depth, that contributes to what we see.

For a piece to glow, it needs the right balance of absorption, scattering and thickness. It must be thin enough that there is visible reflection from the back surface, But there must be enough scattering that the reflection is soft-edged.

This story seems plausible as far as it goes, which is not very far. But there are some puzzles. Icy jadeite glows. Glassy jadeite (with less scattering) seems to glow more brightly. See @Pomelo's (foil backed) examples:

But actual glass (transparent and non-scattering) doesn't glow. So where is the magic cutoff? What's the ideal - just a tiny bit of scattering, but not too much?

A thought on Pomelo's example: The Buddha has more contrast than the leaf. This is making the glow patch look brighter. I'm thinking that they have different sorts of scattering - the glassier material of Buddha is scattering more in the forward direction of light travel, the leaf material is scattering more in random directions (probably because of the 'cotton')

But that's enough uninformed theorizing for now...