Evaluating jadeite (feicui)

[Crimson]

Hello, I am starting this thread to share what I have learnt about evaluating jadeite (feicui).
Thanks, @Autumn in New England for the encouragement!
I know there are many jadeite buyers and owners here! Please feel free to share what you think and know about jadeite so we can make this a one -stop place for anyone interested in learning or evaluating jadeite.
In this thread, I will focus on type A jadeite, There are already many sources on differentiating between Types A,, B and C so I won’t go into that here. What I'd like to do is to share what I have read from Chinese sources and authorities about jadeite evaluation,

Jadeite post #1

Colour, the second most important factor.

Jadeite is often associated with the color green, but it also comes in other hues Some jadeite is colourless.
In the pic below, the colors are listed in the left column: brown, red, orange, yellow, Lu green, Qing green, blue, purple, pink, white, black and grey. In Chinese, there are two major words for green. Lu is a pure leaf green, and Qing a bit more bluish and darker. The second column from the left shows variations of Lu green, from pale spring green to, apple, pea, sunny, spicy, imperial, spinach and inky. Below the Lu green varieties , you will see the purple varieties, ranging from pinkish, purple to eggplant and lavender. At the upper part of the third column is Qing green, which is not as prized as Lu Green. From the top of the column, we have green and white, flowery green, dry green and petroleum or oily green. Below them are the blue varieties, Springwater, blue, sky, blue, lake blue and ink. At the bottom you will see ash grey and “black chicken” hues.


The image from Sohu.com below shows the colour factors that are important in Lu Green jadeite. The colour factors apply to other hues, too. From the left, the columns are:
Nong, which means saturation or intensity. The column goes down from high to low. Saturation is good but just as in other gems, over saturation can be a problem. At the bottom you see ，”colorless” piece 无色. This is desirable if the jadeite is clear as glass, without visible inclusions.
Xian Yang, meaning liveliness, vibrancy and brightness. As you go down the column, you will see decreasing/less desirable levels of vibrancy and liveliness.
Zheng, the extent to which the colour meets the highest standard — the desired shade of green. Besides imperial green, sun green is also highly regarded.
Cun - evenness of colour throughout the piece of jadeite. There should be no eye-visible darker orlighter patches or blotches, or inclusions such as “cotton” , dark impurities and brown stains.

It is commonly believed that the most important attribute of jadeite is color. However, the most important attribute is actually Zhong Sui , which translates literally as planting water. I have heard jadeite connoisseurs or “people in the inner circle” remark that those with knowledge and insight look for water first, and colour second, whereas novices focus on colour.
My next post will focus on Zhong Sui.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I wonder if PS would consider pinning this post? Buying jade is so very different than purchasing other gems... and it's quite intimidating. I'd really like to dip my toe in myself, and I feel like this post is a great asset in that regard.

Thank you for this invaluable information, @Crimson!!

 

[musicloveranthony]

Buying jade is so very different than purchasing other gems... and it's quite intimidating

I echo the sentiment

 

[Bron357]

Fascinating. Jade I believe is a life long study.

 

[Crimson]

Thank you @musicloveranthony @Autumn in New England and @Bron357.
Yes, I think it will probably be a lifetime quest for me!

Jadeite Post #2, Water， or Zhong Sui 种水。
Zhong Sui refers to how watery the jadeite looks. The water or transparency can range from glassy to opaque.
Zhong Sui also relates to texture. There are metaphors that describe jadeite in terms of the granularity or texture of jadeite, from coarsest to smoothest, e.g., peas/beans (coarsest and opaque) glutinous (like sticky rice, porridge or gruel or oatmeal), icy (semi-transparent or translucent, hazy ) and glassy (the best, like water, clear and). The different textures are shown in the pic below. The top row depicts granularity (from left to right , finest/glassy to coarsest).
The second row shows the corresponding transparency （water) and the remaining rows show examples.



Water X Colour produces an array of combinations.
There interesting combinations like inky glassy jadeite. Would that cheap or expensive, since it combines the best water with a less desirable colour? Since the water is superior, it wouldn’t be cheap. On the other hand, a spicy green but coarsely textured and “dry” (no water) piece would not fetch a high price.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thank you @musicloveranthony @Autumn in New England and @Bron357.
Yes, I think it will probably be a lifetime quest for me!

Jadeite Post #2, Water， or Zhong Sui 种水。
Zhong Sui refers to how watery the jadeite looks. The water or transparency can range from glassy to opaque.
Zhong Sui also relates to texture. There are metaphors that describe jadeite in terms of the granularity or texture of jadeite, from coarsest to smoothest, e.g., peas/beans (coarsest and opaque) glutinous (like sticky rice, porridge or gruel or oatmeal), icy (semi-transparent or translucent, hazy ) and glassy (the best, like water, clear and). The different textures are shown in the pic below. The top row depicts granularity (from left to right , finest/glassy to coarsest).
The second row shows the corresponding transparency （water) and the remaining rows show examples.



Water X Colour produces an array of combinations.
There interesting combinations like inky glassy jadeite. Would that cheap or expensive, since it combines the best water with a less desirable colour? Since the water is superior, it wouldn’t be cheap. On the other hand, a spicy green but coarsely textured and “dry” (no water) piece would not fetch a high price.

Do you think it's this particular stone's antiquity that makes deciphering quality so nuanced? It's fascinating...

 

[Starstruck8]

Do you think it's this particular stone's antiquity that makes deciphering quality so nuanced? It's fascinating...

That's an interesting question.

Nephrite jade has been revered in China since neolithic times. It has been found in ancient tombs. Most of the traditions about jade relate to nephrite. When the Analects have Confucius 'grasping the jade tablet as the lord's envoy', that was nephrite.

From what I've read, jadeite jade from Burma/Myanmar only arrived in China in about the 18th century, which is not so long ago. But no doubt two to three hundred years is plenty long enough to develop a connoisseurship. Especially when there is a social hierarchy and people who want to play status games and dealers who want to make money... Once these sorts of games start, there is no end. Was pre-phylloxera Chateau Lafite-Rothschild really that good?

Maybe it's a bit like diamond grading. Not so many people could reliably tell (say) a D-IF from an E-VS2. Still fewer, left to their own devices, would care. But there is a fair premium for 'mind clean', and for bragging rights.

Then there is the language. Some words - 'zhong' as above - don't seem to translate comfortably. Translated metaphors like 'pea/bean', 'glutinous' seem a bit quaint in English. But maybe they seem more natural to native Chinese speakers.

Or is it like the words we use to describe coloured stones? 'Silk' in sapphires, or my (non-standard) phrase 'silver curtain' in star stones. Obvious if you have seen them, baffling if you haven't. Most Westerners haven't seen much high-quality jadeite.

Enough waffling. TL;DR : I doubt that antiquity by itself is the problem. More a mix of refined connoisseurship and plain lack of familiarity.

 

[Starstruck8]

Thank you for this, @Crimson. Now I'm even more intimidated!

For example, in your first post, second picture, second column (Xian Yang - liveliness, vibrancy and brightness), I'm not seeing that the top stone is more lively etc. than the second. To my eye, the top one looks a bit more saturated and the second more watery. So either I haven't grasped the concept, or I haven't tuned my eyes.

On Zhong Shui, (your second post) I'm not sure how texture and transparency relate. As I read the headings, the first row is about texture and the second about transparency. Is the transparency supposed to follow from the texture, or they supposed to make at least partly independent contributions to Zhong (third row)?

What do you think of this article, which seems to cover similar ground? (pp 68-75):
https://online.fliphtml5.com/vxvxw/vehz/#p=69

The article (pp 71-72) mentions another quality that it calls Ying - Internal Shine. It's said to be found only in high-quality fine-grained stones, and to be caused by multiple scattering of light deep in the stone. Any thoughts?

This relates to a pet theory I have about cabs in general, not just jadeite. A good cab should have just the right amount of scattering. Too much, the light doesn't go deep enough into the stone. Too little, the cab looks glassy. Just right gives a soft glowing colour with smooth but interesting variation. I think I'm seeing this in the 'sunny' jade (your first post, first picture, second column).

Jadeite talk is a bit academic to me. Jadeite is a bit like ruby. I just know that the one I want will cost more than I can afford.

 

[Crimson]

That's an interesting question.

Nephrite jade has been revered in China since neolithic times. It has been found in ancient tombs. Most of the traditions about jade relate to nephrite. When the Analects have Confucius 'grasping the jade tablet as the lord's envoy', that was nephrite.

From what I've read, jadeite jade from Burma/Myanmar only arrived in China in about the 18th century, which is not so long ago. But no doubt two to three hundred years is plenty long enough to develop a connoisseurship. Especially when there is a social hierarchy and people who want to play status games and dealers who want to make money... Once these sorts of games start, there is no end. Was pre-phylloxera Chateau Lafite-Rothschild really that good?

Maybe it's a bit like diamond grading. Not so many people could reliably tell (say) a D-IF from an E-VS2. Still fewer, left to their own devices, would care. But there is a fair premium for 'mind clean', and for bragging rights.

Then there is the language. Some words - 'zhong' as above - don't seem to translate comfortably. Translated metaphors like 'pea/bean', 'glutinous' seem a bit quaint in English. But maybe they seem more natural to native Chinese speakers.

Or is it like the words we use to describe coloured stones? 'Silk' in sapphires, or my (non-standard) phrase 'silver curtain' in star stones. Obvious if you have seen them, baffling if you haven't. Most Westerners haven't seen much high-quality jadeite.

Enough waffling. TL;DR : I doubt that antiquity by itself is the problem. More a mix of refined connoisseurship and plain lack of familiarity.

You are right, @starstruck. Jadeite doesn’t go so far back. The jade that was used in ancient times for rituals and connection with heaven was nephrite. There is a whole other set of criteria for nephrite! It has to look oily, and wrt nephrite colour, I feel as if I’m splitting hairs between different shades of white. It’s like looking at a paint catalogue, except the paint also has different textures.
Back to @Autumn in New England ’s question, I think the conundrum arises, because Jadite is not just a crystalline gem, but rather a rock which is highly fibrous and granular. It is also found with omphacite and .klosmochor. Collectively we just use the term feicui in Asia. It is less confusing. Even within the same boulder, we can find different textures and colours (see pic below ) That’s also why Zhong Sui or water is so highly prized.
Pic from 翡翠参考 (feicui research)

 

[Crimson]

Thank you for this, @Crimson. Now I'm even more intimidated!

For example, in your first post, second picture, second column (Xian Yang - liveliness, vibrancy and brightness), I'm not seeing that the top stone is more lively etc. than the second. To my eye, the top one looks a bit more saturated and the second more watery. So either I haven't grasped the concept, or I haven't tuned my eyes.

On Zhong Shui, (your second post) I'm not sure how texture and transparency relate. As I read the headings, the first row is about texture and the second about transparency. Is the transparency supposed to follow from the texture, or they supposed to make at least partly independent contributions to Zhong (third row)?

What do you think of this article, which seems to cover similar ground? (pp 68-75):
https://online.fliphtml5.com/vxvxw/vehz/#p=69

The article (pp 71-72) mentions another quality that it calls Ying - Internal Shine. It's said to be found only in high-quality fine-grained stones, and to be caused by multiple scattering of light deep in the stone. Any thoughts?

This relates to a pet theory I have about cabs in general, not just jadeite. A good cab should have just the right amount of scattering. Too much, the light doesn't go deep enough into the stone. Too little, the cab looks glassy. Just right gives a soft glowing colour with smooth but interesting variation. I think I'm seeing this in the 'sunny' jade (your first post, first picture, second column).

Jadeite talk is a bit academic to me. Jadeite is a bit like ruby. I just know that the one I want will cost more than I can afford.

You read my mind, @starstruck. I felt that what I had shared was a little too abstract and I should show some real life examples! The sample pics can only convey so much. These pics below show Yang!

The article you shared is a good one. They discussed base or di 底 first, whereas in the Chinese convention,底 comes later or last because it is affected by texture (Zhong), water(sui) and to a certain extent, colour because certain colours like lavender tend to have larger grains and hence less a fine base. The fifth factor is 工，which is the shaping or carving of the material. It can also affect the perception of the base because a skilled carver can minimise flaws. In my later posts, I will go on to 工 and 底.

Yang has to do with color and not transparency. It is about the colour being energetic, assertive and eye catching. For example, here are photos of some of my own pieces that show Yang.





In this photo you can see the bees are less Yang than the others. Their colour is just more dull and they cost significantly less.

This lavender pendant is Yang - lively colour but the Zhong is icy glutinous. It is sometimes called ice cream texture.


This is not so Yang - the colour is subtle and less saturated, but it is a highly icy pinkish lavender jadeite that shifts colour so it is interesting in its own way,

This pendant has a mix of more and less Yang feicui but everyone at the jewellers loved it because of the watery texture of the large piece.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I have nothing of value to add to this enthralling conversation, but I feel I've learned so much from you both. This is why we needed this thread!!

@Crimson In turquoise collecting, we use the term "zat" for "yang."

 

[Starstruck8]

Back to @Autumn in New England ’s question, I think the conundrum arises, because Jadite is not just a crystalline gem, but rather a rock which is highly fibrous and granular.

Yes! That's the right answer. Apologies, my amateur sociological digression was uncalled for. (Maybe not wrong, but out of place.) Jadeite is a rock. As such, it's intrinsically granular. So the grain structure raises issues that are not relevant to the usual transparent mono-crystalline gemstones.

Yang has to do with color and not transparency. It is about the colour being energetic, assertive and eye catching. For example, here are photos of some of my own pieces that show Yang.

I'm still not clear about Yang. I love your examples. The colours are well and truly "energetic, assertive and eye catching". The colour of the bees is less so. But... To describe what is catching me eye, I'd call it a combination of chroma and 'glow'. Chroma is a colour term in the strict sense. But 'glow' is a bit more. I'm thinking that the glow of the sunny(?) jadeites is caused by reflections from the back surface, softened by scattering. This is something more than simply colour; it's related to grain structure.

Put differently, is Yang purely a colour term in the following sense? Could you, at least in principle, take a standard colour atlas (e.g. Munsell) and mark the colours that have good Yang (presumably the ones with higher chroma)? Or is some other quality (like the 'glow' I mentioned) also involved?

 

[Crimson]

Yes! That's the right answer. Apologies, my amateur sociological digression was uncalled for. (Maybe not wrong, but out of place.) Jadeite is a rock. As such, it's intrinsically granular. So the grain structure raises issues that are not relevant to the usual transparent mono-crystalline gemstones.

Glad you brought it up, I do have some nephrite too; many of my friends from China own a mix of nephrite and feicui jadeite. There are shops specialising only in Nephrite, too,

I'm still not clear about Yang. I love your examples. The colours are well and truly "energetic, assertive and eye catching". The colour of the bees is less so. But... To describe what is catching me eye, I'd call it a combination of chroma and 'glow'. Chroma is a colour term in the strict sense. But 'glow' is a bit more. I'm thinking that the glow of the sunny(?) jadeites is caused by reflections from the back surface, softened by scattering. This is something more than simply colour; it's related to grain structure.

Put differently, is Yang purely a colour term in the following sense? Could you, at least in principle, take a standard colour atlas (e.g. Munsell) and mark the colours that have good Yang (presumably the ones with higher chroma)? Or is some other quality (like the 'glow' I mentioned) also involved?

Since you brought up both chroma and glow, it’s about to get even more complicated!
You might have noticed that the word Yang 阳 appears in two columns.

The second column 鲜阳 refers to freshness, brightness, and liveliness. This is what I meant when I said the colour looks assertive and energetic. I suppose the closest term we have in conventional geology is tone but here there is a definite preference for bright and even neon tones.

In the third column, you see the word Yang again 阳绿 refers to sunny Green. In terms of chroma，this would be on the border of pure green and yellow-green. it is green with a touch of yellow, or Yellowish green.

I have inserted some photos below. All are from WeChat Channels.
This one show is Bright green, without being highly transparent.


This one is yellowish green, but not very bright.



This one is icy white with both Yangs.

 

[Crimson]

Jadeite post #3 Gong 工， or workmanship.

The best feicui is usually cut into cabochons or bangles. The proportions of cabochons and bangles have to be pleasing to the eye. Cabochons should not be too thin, but should have a nicely rounded dome to create a sense of fullness. The same applies to bangles, which have a range of standard, well-rounded proportions. Bangles are a full circle. They should not be cut or open.

Even in cut material, such as pendants, designs that are simpler are valued. It shows that hey didn’t need much work to look good! Some of these plainer designs include 无事 (no problem) pendants or 平安扣 .
Even with these designs, thicker is usually better. Bangles and pendants are often described as plump or fat, 胖胖or 肥肥, both of which are desirable.



Fei Cui that have some unevenness or imperfections are usually carved. In carving, imperfections such as stains and blotches , inclusions, growth lines, small fractures, and other features can be either cut away or used to create interesting compositions.

Skilful artists know how to carve the fei cui material to make the best use of uneven or mixed colors and features of the stone. For example, a bluish patch can be turned into the sky or pond, a brownish tint in part of the stone could become a monkey, and variations in green could be carved into foliage. If you have a carved fei cui pendant, turn it over to see whether it is carved on both sides.. Some pieces are carved on both sides, and you may be able to wear the pendant with either side facing outwards.

Some jadeite pieces are carved into wearable sculptures of fish, flowers, peaches, gourds, lotus roots, dragons, three legged toads, kirin, pixiu and other auspicious symbols Feicui that are carved by a master may come with certificates.

 

[Autumn in New England]

@Crimson I knew you were well-versed in jade, but I had no idea you were a veritable encyclopedia. I'm in awe at your depth of knowledge!!

 

[Starstruck8]

Glad you brought it up, I do have some nephrite too; many of my friends from China own a mix of nephrite and feicui jadeite. There are shops specialising only in Nephrite, too,

Since you brought up both chroma and glow, it’s about to get even more complicated!
You might have noticed that the word Yang 阳 appears in two columns.

The second column 鲜阳 refers to freshness, brightness, and liveliness. This is what I meant when I said the colour looks assertive and energetic. I suppose the closest term we have in conventional geology is tone but here there is a definite preference for bright and even neon tones.

In the third column, you see the word Yang again 阳绿 refers to sunny Green. In terms of chroma，this would be on the border of pure green and yellow-green. it is green with a touch of yellow, or Yellowish green.

I have inserted some photos below. All are from WeChat Channels.
This one show is Bright green, without being highly transparent.


This one is yellowish green, but not very bright.



This one is icy white with both Yangs.

Thank you for this, @Crimson! I think I now understand. 鲜阳 and 阳绿 are both colour terms. (As you said from the start, but I, being a bit thick, didn't quite appreciate.) The 'glow' I mentioned is real and interesting, but it belongs in a different category. Thank you for your patience.

 

[Crimson]

@Crimson I knew you were well-versed in jade, but I had no idea you were a veritable encyclopedia. I'm in awe at your depth of knowledge!!

Thanks, @Autumn in New England I enjoy throwing myself into any subject of interest! I did read The Jade Encyclopaedia, in Chinese. It was long and hard because my Chinese isn’t that good

Thank you for this, @Crimson! I think I now understand. 鲜阳 and 阳绿 are both colour terms. (As you said from the start, but I, being a bit thick, didn't quite appreciate.) The 'glow' I mentioned is real and interesting, but it belongs in a different category. Thank you for your patience.

Thanks for your interest, @Starstruck8 .
The next post will be on di 底, and your points on glow will be highly relevant!

 

[Crimson]

Jadeite post #4 Di 底

底 Di literally means foundation.
This is one aspect of jadeite that easily translates to standards for other gems. Di底 must be clean, or 干净。
The standards for evaluating the foundation are :
Grade 1: No cracks or grey-black threads visible at 10x magnification although there may be occasional small black spots.
Grade 2: No cracks visible at 10x magnification; a small amount of tiny black spots and gray-black threads are visible.
Grade 3: No cracks are visible to the naked eye; a small amount of cracks are visible at 10x magnification, a small amount of black spots or crystals are visible to the naked eye.
Grade 4: A small amount of cracks and more black spots, gray threads, and crystals are visible naked eye.

As with other gemstones, some inclusions are prized,
Two of my favourite inclusions are
1. Snowflakes - visible in Muna 木那 jadeite. Muna is a place in Burma where this kind of jadeite is found.
The scattered inclusions look literally like snowflakes inside highly icy or glassy jadeite.




Some Muna jadeite have very fine inclusions that scatter the light and create a glow. @Starstruck8, this is for you!
The first one is sun green and the second is sweet sun green.
@mellowyellowgirl here are some bright and cheery gems!


All photos in this post are from 《梦格拉》亿万精品.

2. Gold silk or 金丝
these are not literally gold threats of silk or rototill. They refer to threads of more vivid green that run through lighter coloured jadeite.



There are other terms that are used to describe jadeite’s Di 底 but these are the basics that I have learnt.
Hope you have enjoyed this exploration of jadeite quality factors!

 

[Starstruck8]

Thank you, @Crimson!

Some Muna jadeite have very fine inclusions that scatter the light and create a glow. @Starstruck8, this is for you!
The first one is sun green and the second is sweet sun green.
@mellowyellowgirl here are some bright and cheery gems!

All photos in this post are from 《梦格拉》亿万精品.

Yes, that's the glow I love!

And thank you for the whole series, which make jadeite a bit less forbidding.

 

[Crimson]

Thank you, @Crimson!



Yes, that's the glow I love!

And thank you for the whole series, which make jadeite a bit less forbidding.

Thank you, @Starstruck8!
Bonus info below. When buying jadeite, be aware of what lies beneath,
This practice has been seen in coloured Diamond jewellery too - painted bottoms or painted settings. Here is a make-belief pink stone with pink pigment on the setting base.


Here is a pendant that @newtojewels jewels mentioned on the lavender spinel thread asking if lavender spinel could look like that.


After a bit of digging, this is what I found. It had lots of help from the pink sapphires and diamonds underneath.



I know this happens with other gems too. I saw and emerald all dressed up from behind, at a Christie’s auction. Without that help, the emerald would have looked too dark. So the point is it isn’t enough t just buy Type A jadeite. We need to check if there are other manipulations —. and this applies to other gems too.

 

[Autumn in New England]

The color and glow of this one are unreal... like, otherworldly.

 

[Crimson]

The color and glow of this one are unreal... like, otherworldly.

Should I buy it?

 

[CMN]

@Crimson, I am only up to post #3 but I just wanted to say thank you for providing this content in an easily accessible form and explaining the very helpful diagrams in English.

 

[Crimson]

@Crimson, I am only up to post #3 but I just wanted to say thank you for providing this content in an easily accessible form and explaining the very helpful diagrams in English.

@CMN Thank you for appreciating the posts! Jadeite has been for me the most challenging CS by far! Glad to share what I have learnt.
Since you are at post #3, here are some photos of carved jadeite pendants. The owl is cute and the second one is quite beautiful.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Should I buy it?

Buy two... and give one to me, your new best friend.

 

[MMtwo]

I love this thread so much, adding Google Translate for some photos.

 

[lukasgraham0398]

Prettys Girls from your city for night

 

[njblinger]

@Crimson thank you so much for this informative post. I have a number of jade pieces handed down by my mother who has since passed. I have a green jade bangle that I have worn for almost 30 years. I don't know who to ask this - can jade be polished? My bracelet no longer shines and is now rough and dull. I remember my mother's bracelet was shiny and glowed. She was never rough with it, like I am with mine. TIA!

 

[MMtwo]

Hi @njblinger … In the US, Jade Diver on Etsy will repolish jadeite, but would check and see if he would work with outside jade. Churkworkshop may also repolish, not sure? Mason Kay may also be able to direct you.

 

[Crimson]

@Crimson thank you so much for this informative post. I have a number of jade pieces handed down by my mother who has since passed. I have a green jade bangle that I have worn for almost 30 years. I don't know who to ask this - can jade be polished? My bracelet no longer shines and is now rough and dull. I remember my mother's bracelet was shiny and glowed. She was never rough with it, like I am with mine. TIA!

Thank you for such an interesting question, @njblinger.
I didn’t even know if it was possible to re-polish Jade bangles so I asked the jeweller where I bought most of my pieces. They answered that it can be done and that it will enable the jadeite to 出水 which literally means “release water”. They said you could bring your bangle to them but it looks as if you are in NJ which is on the other side of the world. Thank goodness @MMtwo has suggested some providers nearer to you! Before that, please check ypur precious bangle carefully under a bright light, and use a magnifying glass or loupe to see if there are any fractures that might have occurred from wear and tear. Whoever is doing the repolishing should also perform such an inspection just to make sure the bangle can stand up to the process.
Hope you will get a lovely result!