Enlisting your expert help in finding a H&A 3-4 carat center stone

[sledge]

Earlier @OoohShiny made a call out to @Texas Leaguer. I had some communications with Bryan outside PS and believe he will be out for the next week. That was around Wednesday evening. So if you relying on him to answer any questions, you may want to call in to WF instead as he may not be checking the boards.

In regards to your decision, I still like option 1. You really maximize your dollar, and even though it's still the smallest, it looks massive on your (small) finger! Plus I've got to think that with WF's criteria, part of the variance in size has to do with the exact rough, table and specific angle combos they can create.

In the big scheme, I think many are getting hung up on the overall dollars as most can't spend $80k on a stone. I work with rather large numbers. Currently working on a $60 million project in fact, so it's hard to sometimes associate.

If you put aside the dollar aspect for a minute, it's a 10% increase in cost. Now if you put that into terms of the majority of people's budget and this is what we'd be talking about:

• $5,000 budget = $500 increase
• $10,000 budget = $1,000 increase
• $15,000 budget = $1,500 increase
• $20,000 budget = $2,000 increase
• $80,000 budget = $8,000 increase

I realize we are all smart people here, but sometimes it really helps to visualize what 10% looks like on smaller budgets. On a $5,000 budget, everyone would likely root for a 0.20mm increase for just $500 more as we value dollars to percentages differently in our heads. It's a psychological thing.

While I certainly think $8,000 is a lot to spend for such a small gain, I feel that way for reasons already stated so I'm trying to be objective regarding my decision and not just let the dollars play into the equation.

Hopefully it helps.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think #3 isn't that much more in the overall scheme of things, but it will be huge with the halo. If getting the greatest size is your goal, that's a no-brainer.

However, I think I might split the difference and go with #2...still quite large with the halo. I am afraid you might find #1 too small and I am assuming you want to do this right the first time and not upgrade later. So#2 is my choice for you.

 

[LinSF]

Sledge, I am a newbie here on PS. I have never posted.. but wanted to tell you are an amazing resource! I love how much you have gotten into the detailed aspects of diamonds. I'll have to enlist your help when the time comes! Soon!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Here's Frankiextah's ring with the 3.07 ct center stone with a size 5 finger. So all three of these stones will look larger on you than this.

 

[sledge]

Sledge, I am a newbie here on PS. I have never posted.. but wanted to tell you are an amazing resource! I love how much you have gotten into the detailed aspects of diamonds. I'll have to enlist your help when the time comes! Soon!

Thank you so much for the incredibly kind words. I am glad that I am able to provide value to this community as they have helped me tremendously.

Whenever the time comes to start your own journey I would be honored to help you.

 

[ice empress]

@Wewechew: you’re right, I don’t want to regret not having gone larger... but that being said, I think realistically, It would be more realistic that I would regret having gone too large, as I see myself not wearing the ring due to it being too “showy”.

In this situation, it is more disabling to have too many options... though I appreciate having such flexibility, it is making the decision more difficult.


@bludiva I agree that the difference would be so subtle, especially since there would be no side-by-side comparison IRL. One day ago, I was convinced that for this reason, option 1 was the right one. Then... after some more thought and deliberation, I convinced myself that option 3 would be better, so I wouldn’t have regrets. Oy...

You’re right though. Both options would be spectacular!

 

[ice empress]

@Phoenix I’m so torn... not even one week ago, I convinced myself that I should buy your 5.318 carat...

I’m so fortunate that budget isn’t an issue. Rather, I’m more concerned about value and wearability.

@atp223 you make an excellent point!!! What if the 3.40-3.45ct came out as a 9.60mm while the 3.60-3.65ct came out as a 9.90mm. Or vice versa what if the 3.40-3.45ct came out as a 9.70mm while the 3.60-3.65 came out as a 9.80mm!? That would be disappointing...

 

[ice empress]

@ac117 and @ILikeShiny and @sledge I think I agree that the difference when set in the halo would be insignificant enough to negate the additional cost

@diamondseeker2006 interestingly, most are weighing in between options 1 and 3. But perhaps you’re right and splitting the difference is the best route...

I think @frankiextah’s ring is so stunning and substantial!! I figured any of the three options would look similar to hers, given that my ringer is larger at 5.75-6.00 rather than 5 (but with a slightly larger diameter to the stone).

@AV_ I wish I could borrow and wear the diamonds, as I have a difficult time with abstract visualization. Unfortunately, given that the stone hasn’t yet been created and will be custom cut, and that it will thereafter be set in a halo, this just isn’t feasible.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Here is m-2-b's very gorgeous 4.7 ct Whiteflash ACA set in an Emilya on about a size 6 finger.

 

[angeljosephy]

Personally, I'd go for option 3 just to hit the 3.5 carat mark, if you can afford it. I didn't pick option 2 because there is a possibility that it could come out bang on 3.50, which means that even if it loses just one point in the future during setting/resetting or polishing out minor blemishes, it would lose a great deal of value being no longer a 3.5 carat.

 

[icy_jade]

I have an update, and could really use some help...

I am going to have whiteflash custom cut an ACA. They were kindly able to provide three options with identical cut (ACA), color (G) and clarity (VS2).

What are your insights with regards to value, size, price between:

Option 1:
3.40-3.45ct (9.60-9.70mm) - $77,268

Option 2:
3.50-3.55ct (9.70-9.80mm) - $81,407

Option 3:
3.60-3.65ct (9.80-9.90mm) - $85,049

Please keep in mind that it will be set in a VC Emilya, which will probably add ~3mm width (given that frankiextah’s 3.075 carat emilya halo added 2.8mm).

Thanks again everyone!!! Your help has been most invaluable

Are they cutting all three stones regardless? Just wondering if there any possibility of making the choice after you know the cuts/angles.

 

[TreeScientist]

Earlier @OoohShiny made a call out to @Texas Leaguer. I had some communications with Bryan outside PS and believe he will be out for the next week. That was around Wednesday evening. So if you relying on him to answer any questions, you may want to call in to WF instead as he may not be checking the boards.

In regards to your decision, I still like option 1. You really maximize your dollar, and even though it's still the smallest, it looks massive on your (small) finger! Plus I've got to think that with WF's criteria, part of the variance in size has to do with the exact rough, table and specific angle combos they can create.

In the big scheme, I think many are getting hung up on the overall dollars as most can't spend $80k on a stone. I work with rather large numbers. Currently working on a $60 million project in fact, so it's hard to sometimes associate.

If you put aside the dollar aspect for a minute, it's a 10% increase in cost. Now if you put that into terms of the majority of people's budget and this is what we'd be talking about:

• $5,000 budget = $500 increase
• $10,000 budget = $1,000 increase
• $15,000 budget = $1,500 increase
• $20,000 budget = $2,000 increase
• $80,000 budget = $8,000 increase

I realize we are all smart people here, but sometimes it really helps to visualize what 10% looks like on smaller budgets. On a $5,000 budget, everyone would likely root for a 0.20mm increase for just $500 more as we value dollars to percentages differently in our heads. It's a psychological thing.

While I certainly think $8,000 is a lot to spend for such a small gain, I feel that way for reasons already stated so I'm trying to be objective regarding my decision and not just let the dollars play into the equation.

Hopefully it helps.

Great insight about the relative increase in cost (as percentage of total cost) vs the absolute increase. As you said, I think most people (myself included) usually think in terms of absolute dollars, and each of us will value a dollar differently depending on our income, life-stage, upbringing, etc. In fact, our own perception of the worth of a dollar will change throughout our lives as we move up the income and savings ladder. I know that my perception of the value of a dollar has definitely changed over the last 5 years since I finished undergrad and started earning a "real" salary.

From my personal vantage point right now, $8k does indeed seem like a lot of money. I mean, my finacé's entire E-ring was only $7k. But looking at it from a 10% increase in cost perspective, if someone asked me whether I thought increasing the size by .2mm for $700 was worth it, I would say "Sure, why not?" That is, of course, provided that my fiancé actually wanted the .2mm increase in size in this hypothetical situation, and provided that the other 3Cs would be equivalent for the two diamonds.

All this to say that, if you really want a particular size, and the size is within your budget, then a 10% increase in cost really isn't that big a deal in the long run. To me, #1 seems like the logical choice, especially since it will be going in a halo. But only you can know what size you really want, and what attaining a particular size is worth in terms of monetary value.

 

[ice empress]

@diamondseeker2006 thanks so much for including m-2-b’s 4.7 emilya! Quite helpful given we are the same finger size. What a beautiful ring!!!


@angeljosephy so true about the future value etc. I doubt I would ever want to repolish or exchange or upgrade the stone though, as I like to do things once, properly. That’s why this decision is one I’m not taking lightly. In the grand scheme of things, I know I can’t go wrong with any of the three options, and that the differences are so minuscule that they would be quite subtle. Yet, I still find myself changing my mind by the hour!

 

[ice empress]

@icyjade i wish that were a possibility... however, I do need to make a decision and transfer funds before the one stone is selected and custom cut.


I’m quite thankful the decision needs to be made by Tuesday. Without a deadline, I would just continue to waver back and forth!


@TreeScientist you and @sledge are absolutely right. What a difference to see it in absolute vs relative amounts. I’m so fortunate that my boyfriend is happy to go along with whatever stone I want (even the 3.987 ACA that was until recently available for $117,560.


I truly get fixated on value though.... I’m not overly concerned about getting every last mm out of the stone, or the largest possible stone (for example, I considered @phoeonix’s 5.318 ACA but quickly realized it would be too large for my finger and for wearability in my community). At the same time, I don’t want to regret not having gone with the larger one, should I realize I should have (given the “small” relative difference as @sledge pointed out).

 

[Phoenix]

[/QUOTE]@angeljosephy so true about the future value etc. I doubt I would ever want to repolish or exchange or upgrade the stone though, as I like to do things once, properly. That’s why this decision is one I’m not taking lightly. In the grand scheme of things, I know I can’t go wrong with any of the three options, and that the differences are so minuscule that they would be quite subtle. Yet, I still find myself changing my mind by the hour![/QUOTE]


I'll let @angeljosephy speak for herself, but I think she meant should, God forbid, your diamond (if it were a 3.50ct) get damaged/ chipped etc...and it were to be re-polished etc, the weight may very well drop below the 3.50ct mark.

 

[Phoenix]

Oh and pls excuse the threadjack, but my 5.318ct has been withdrawn/ it is no longer for sale, as of a few days ago - just in case anyone is wondering.

Good luck deciding and I can't wait to see the finished diamond & ring.

 

[sledge]

I truly get fixated on value though.... I’m not overly concerned about getting every last mm out of the stone, or the largest possible stone (for example, I considered @phoeonix’s 5.318 ACA but quickly realized it would be too large for my finger and for wearability in my community). At the same time, I don’t want to regret not having gone with the larger one, should I realize I should have (given the “small” relative difference as @sledge pointed out).

IMHO, option 1 is your stone.

Let the part above in bold sink in. Those are YOUR words. You know what you want to do, now you just need to follow your heart.

Just in case you need to hear it again, it's going to gorgeous and you will love it! Now for the next important question -- when do we get pictures?

 

[Lykame]

I am sending you crossed fingers that you are able to figure out what you want! I can see that this would be quite a difficult decision. Hopefully at the point you're phoning Whiteflash to tell them your choice and to pay, you'll know in your gut you've made the right decision with whatever option you go for.

I can only really add one suggestion to the excellent advice you've been given. I think you need to think a bit about how you will feel in the long term, rather than now. This might not be an easy thing, but it's worth at least having a think about. For example, I don't believe you've had your current stone for very long, and you already have felt the wish/need to upsize it. You've looked at 5 carat stones, too. Do you have an idea in your head about what your 'ideal' size diamond would be? Is this meant to be your forever stone?

I think, if you think in the future you're going to do a 'big' upgrade, I would go for option 1, because that gives you the best value for money and you know anyway you're going to go bigger, so you don't necessarily need the biggest now. If this is meant to be a forever stone, or if you want to try and stave off the gap between your next upgrade, I would go for option 3. If I had the choice myself, I would go for option 3.

Also okay, I do have one extra suggestion - is there a particular option that makes your heart go pitter-patter? Ignore the money for a moment, it doesn't seem that much of an issue. Ignore the size - is there one that just 'feels' good? For example - my current ring is a 1.65 carat. 16 is my favourite number, so I am really attached to 1.6 anything. I'm looking to upgrade my central stone. I could either stay in the 1.6, or I would go up to 1.8 ... but I don't want a 1.7. For some reason, cannot explain it, if I had the choice between a 1.6 or a 1.7, I'd rather have the 1.6 despite being smaller, because it feels better to me unless I could get all the way up to 1.8. Strange I know, it's not based on anything, but it's just something I know.

Okay yes I know I'm insane, but hopefully you understand what I mean. It may be you need to listen to that side of yourself when making this decision, because that's the kind of thing that helps you enjoy a stone for longer...

As I said at the beginning of this blurb, I think you will just 'know' when you're making the phone call which one feels right to you. Good luck!

 

[ice empress]

Oh and pls excuse the threadjack, but my 5.318ct has been withdrawn/ it is no longer for sale, as of a few days ago - just in case anyone is wondering.

Good luck deciding and I can't wait to see the finished diamond & ring.

No worries at all. Keep on rocking your incredibly gorgeous diamond. It truly is one in a million!

 

[ice empress]

@sledge I’m heavily leaning towards option 3 now. For the first few days, I was convinced it was going to be option 1... but knowing myself and how situations in general play out over time, I realized I have a tendency to weigh the “value” portion of the equation heavily at the beginning, only to realize years down the road that the “extra savings” weren’t worth skimping out on in the long run. In other words, I tend to focus on the absolute number to begin with, and the relative number down the line. Thus, I may disappoint myself 5-10 years from now if I wished in retrospect that I had gone with the larger stone.

 

[ice empress]

@Lykame what excellent perspective! You’ve summarized so many excellent points and made the bigger picture clearer.

I think the “magic number” for me would need to be larger than 3.5 or I might be disappointed. I also doubt I would ever upgrade, given that I now have the option to go with an even larger carat size but don’t want to, out of fear that it would look silly or make me feel uncomfortable with wearing it in public.

The magic number would therefore probably be 3.6-3.65!

 

[sledge]

@sledge I’m heavily leaning towards option 3 now. For the first few days, I was convinced it was going to be option 1... but knowing myself and how situations in general play out over time, I realized I have a tendency to weigh the “value” portion of the equation heavily at the beginning, only to realize years down the road that the “extra savings” weren’t worth skimping out on in the long run. In other words, I tend to focus on the absolute number to begin with, and the relative number down the line. Thus, I may disappoint myself 5-10 years from now if I wished in retrospect that I had gone with the larger stone.

I totally understand, and have found myself in similar situations. Always follow your heart, whatever the decision and you will always know you made the best decision at the time with the information you had available.

Here's the cool thing...no matter what, you get a huge rock that is cut to super ideal ACA standards so you're a winner no matter the choice you make!

 

[ice empress]

P.s. unfortunately, whiteflash says they won’t be able to provide any pictures of the rough stone or the interim stages as it is being cut in Antwerp Belgium, and it just isn’t an option.

One thing worth mentioning for anyone thinking of having a custom cut stone from whiteflash is that their guarantee is absolutely unbeatable! If any of the 4 C’s is less than what they promised, I get a full refund back. On the flip side, if any of the 4 C’s is more than what they promised, it is given without any additional charge!!

 

[lovedogs]

@ice empress , just remember that at this point you can't make a "bad" decision! I am similar to you in that I tend to weigh value the most in the beginning, and then sometimes regret not spending the $ to get exactly what I want later. If you know that you have this tendency, I'd say just go for it now and get the larger stone. The outcome is going to be amazing!

 

[CareBear]

@ice empress My suggestion would be to get the 3.987 and skip the halo for now. When DSS sets in down the road, halo it and you should be good for a while longer.

 

[ice empress]

@ice empress My suggestion would be to get the 3.987 and skip the halo for now. When DSS sets in down the road, halo it and you should be good for a while longer.

“Thankfully” the 3.987 is no longer available... it was swooped up by someone else...

 

[CareBear]

@ice empress I just saw the posts regarding going with a custom cut with WF! Great decision! For me, the best part about purchasing with WF, aside from the superb customer service, is their upgrade policy. From your posts, I get the feeling you might want go bigger later, especially since you were considering 5ct stones. With a halo, you will need to remake the ring, should you decide to upgrade to a bigger stone. That is quite a bit of money you will be losing.

 

[carbonfan]

I think a custom cut is a fabulously exciting idea in your case! However, before you take the plunge, you may want to clarify whether WF's custom-cut ACAs are included in their lifetime trade-up policy. I realize that you don't expect to upgrade, but it would be good to know whether this would be an option ahead of time just in case, and the policies regarding eligibility of custom cuts for trade up differ among vendors. Especially considering the investment this purchase reflects, f there is even the slightest chance that you would want to go up in size in the future, you may want to make sure that your current choice offers you that flexibility. You may have already asked WF about this and my apologies if I missed this in the thread, but in any case I just wanted to throw that out there!

Also, I noticed that the WF 3.987-carat stone is technically reserved, not sold. So if it is of interest to you, it might be beneficial to wait a few more days to see if the sale goes through. This stone would satisfy your desire for size and additionally would offer the potential for trade up.

Just my two cents' worth, but do keep us posted on what you decide!

 

[sledge]

Definitley confirm with WF, but my guess is rather the stone is in-house or custom cut, it will be branded as an ACA which qualifies it for the upgrade program.

All ACA, premium select and expert select stones are eligible.

https://www.whiteflash.com/confidence/lifetime-trade-up-guarantee/

 

[carbonfan]

Definitley confirm with WF, but my guess is rather the stone is in-house or custom cut, it will be branded as an ACA which qualifies it for the upgrade program.

All ACA, premium select and expert select stones are eligible.

https://www.whiteflash.com/confidence/lifetime-trade-up-guarantee/

In light of my own experiences with Whiteflash I would think that there would be latitude as well, but given the $$$ involved I would not want to move forward without certainty in this area. Truth be told, the trade-up options are going to be fairly restricted at this price point in any case, but I for one would want to know what future options would be available before committing to a custom-cut stone.