Enlisting your expert help in finding a H&A 3-4 carat center stone

[ice empress]

Hello ladies,

My boyfriend and I have recently begun searching for an engagement stone and could use some help in finding "the" one

I've been looking online for months now, but haven't yet found her.

Though there's no budget per se, I would ideally like to find a stone whose specs are worth spending money on (i.e. a stone of good value). This is one of the reasons the search hasn't yet come to fruition. I am also a little OCD and need to know that all options have been explored and compared then narrowed down to the best possible choice.

Ideal specifications:
- Cut: Round brilliant, Ideal hearts & arrows
- Carat: 3.2-4.0
- Colour: F-G
- Clarity: VS1-SI1 (ideally VS2, since I worry SI1 might not be eyeclean, while VS1 would inflate the cost unnecessarily)

Currently, there are 2 Whiteflash ACA's that fit close within these parameters, but each with its limitations...

Stone 1: 3.05 carats, F, VS2, $70K (limitation: wish it was a little bigger)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3872126.htm

Stone 2: 3.987 carats, G, VS1, $118K (limitation: wish it was a VS2 as this would decrease cost to a more palatable one)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3990503.htm

Thank you all soooooooooo much!!

Any suggestions and insight would be so deeply appreciated.

Thanks again,
Stephanie

 

[ice empress]

Here's one option to critique/comment on. Thoughts?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Here's one option to critique/comment on. Thoughts?

Price? H&A stone?

 

[mrs-b]

Ask WF about a custom cut stone. They guarantee price and minimum statistics (color and clarity).

 

[BlingDreams]

Here's one option to critique/comment on. Thoughts?

The measurements and performance look very promising. How’s the price?

You should also check with @Wink at HPD to see what he has coming into stock next month (Antwerp takes most of August off for summer vacation). They also custom cut (good thought @mrs-b).

I will say though that the 3.987 intrigues me. Finding a super ideal at just under the carat mark is almost unheard of (due to pricing on rough stones) so it’s like seeing a fleeting unicorn

 

[mrs-b]

The measurements and performance look very promising. How’s the price?

You should also check with @Wink at HPD to see what he has coming into stock next month (Antwerp takes most of August off for summer vacation). They also custom cut (good thought @mrs-b).

I will say though that the 3.987 intrigues me. Finding a super ideal at just under the carat mark is almost unheard of (due to pricing on rough stones) so it’s like seeing a fleeting unicorn

I believe - tho am not positive - that WF can source a G VS2 in the 3.5ct range for around 85k. (...cause I asked them last week)

 

[MissGotRocks]

I believe - tho am not positive - that WF can source a G VS2 in the 3.5ct range for around 85k. (...cause I asked them last week)

Oh, do tell Mrs-b - are you in the market to upgrade?

 

[ice empress]

Thanks ladies for the speedy responses!

The 3.2ct F-VS1 whose lab report I included is a Super Ideal - Hearts and Arrows for $87,500 USD.

It is from Victor Canera and would simplify things as I am planning on having the stone set by him. I’m in Canada and hadn’t quite figured out yet how I would get a stone bought from whiteflash to him for the setting.

If I did end up buying in whiteflash (or another dealer), could I ship it direct to VC? Any idea what that would mean for shipping and Canadian duties?

I had no idea that whiteflash could/would custom cut a stone... I’ll most certainly be in touch with them too. Anyone in particular I should communicate with?

Ilikeshiny, i too was so surprised to find the 3.987 and was sure it would be scooped up fast... I was convinced it could be “the” one but then wondered if it might be too big on my finger (size 5.75) in an emilya setting. I live in a city outside of toronto where diamond sizes are very modest... if I lived in Miami or New York, or some big metropolitan city, it would be a different story.

Thanks again everyone and have a great day!

 

[muskokathompson]

@Phoenix is selling her 5.318 ct AGS000 for $115K USD? Maybe go even bigger?
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/5-318ct-h-vs2-ags-ideal-cut-triple-0.234055/

 

[mrs-b]

Oh, do tell Mrs-b - are you in the market to upgrade?

Never say never, but not right now, no.

 

[farrahlyn]

It does have strong fluoro though

3.85ct G VS2 $76,715
https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond...GIA-G-VS2-diamond-stock-14218-cert-7201021076

 

[OoohShiny]

@Phoenix is selling her 5.318 ct AGS000 for $115K USD? Maybe go even bigger?
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/5-318ct-h-vs2-ags-ideal-cut-triple-0.234055/

LOL

I was just about to post this

 

[sledge]

First off, have you talked with VC and is he okay with setting someone else's stone? Also have you been to his shop and saw any of his ideal cut stones and jewelry in-person? If I were him I would very much like the opportunity to source the stone if I were doing the setting, and not miss out on a high dollar diamond sale. If he requires the stone be purchased from him, are you okay and willing to walk?

I ask because while super ideals are the cream of the crop, each has their own personality so to speak. Without doubt, if you haven't seen all the various super ideals in-person I think you need to get on a plane and schedule some visits.

I would visit:

• VC in LA, assuming you haven't already
• WF in Houston
• BGD in Houston
• HPD in Meridian, ID (CBI stones)
• If you cant squeeze Wink @ HPD into your schedule, then there is another CBI dealer in El Segundo called The Jewelery Source (TJS), which is just outside LA. I know Wink is solid. I am not sure about TJS but they do carry CBI stones, or they are supposed to. I would call and make sure prior to visiting them.

While visiting I would ask to see larger stones but most likely they will be in the 1-2 carat range. That's okay. I want you to get a feel for your sensitivity to color, how various sizes look on your finger and how each super ideal is well cut but one or another may have a personality you prefer.

If you find one that speaks to you, get all the specs you can. While well cut, things like a small 54 table with a 34.5 crown and 40.7-40.8 crown would likely make me go gaga. Couple with some fat arrows (as close to 75 LGF as possible) and I'm on cloud nine.

Others may not see a difference with a larger 57 table and same crown/pavilion combo. Yet another buyer may prefer larger table with a shallower 34 crown and 40.9 pavilion.

Whatever you prefer is fine but the sales associate needs to be well versed and make sure they show you diamonds with different tech specs and how they slightly differ. That's the beauty of super ideals, little tweaks in the details still allow all them to be the best yet still have a little unique personality as well.

For the cash you are spending I would be very picky and know exactly what I wanted before i pulled the trigger. Also I would expect the best customer service and trade-in programs, which is why I think WF or HPD would be my preferred target. While I love, and own a BGD myself, there trade in isn't as generous.

 

[ice empress]

Oh my goodness... Muskokathompson, you actually got me considering Phoenix's 5.3 carat now, despite originally saying that I was concerned about going too big!!

I still do have concerns though about the diamond being too ostentatious for my community and lifestyle... will have to think some more about this one...

Farrahlyn, thank you for the suggestion. The stone is almost perfect in most ways (carat, colour, clarity) and fits most criteria indeed, but the strong fluorescence worries me. Also, out of curiosity, would you or anyone else know how it is qualified as an "ascendancy hearts & arrows" diamond but is an "excellent" cut rather than an "ideal" one? Was I mistaken to assume that their "ascendancy H&A" were their prime cut?

Sledge, thank you for your comprehensive and most useful comments! To answer your questions:
- I have been communicating with Nicholas Abbondante from VC, and there's no issue with me providing the stone to be set by VC
- Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to visit his shop, as I live in Eastern Canada
- I'm quite colour sensitive, which is why I am looking for an F-G stone
- I've done a moderate amount of ring shopping and sampling... of course, the 5-carat (in a halo setting) was huge on my finger, but I quickly got used to it... haha. The 3-carat harry winston (in a halo setting) looked much more reasonable. This is why I was thinking of splitting the difference... something in the 3.5-4.2 range.

Also, I've since asked Nicholas about custom cutting a stone through VC and it is entirely possible (without any premium).

 

[ice empress]

Has anyone here bought a diamond from one vendor (whiteflash for example) and shipped it direct to VC to be set (i.e. without picking it up themselves and delivering it to VC)?

 

[sledge]

I bought my fiancee a super ideal from Brian Gavin Diamonds (BGD) located in Houston, TX. I then had David Klass (DK) in Los Angeles design & custom build her setting. While DK and myself worked through the design process, BGD kept the stone in their safe in Houston. Within the last week or so, DK told me they needed the stone and I had BGD ship it directly to DK.

The entire process was silky smooth and very easy. I suspect that WF and HPD would be just as easy to work with as BGD. Only thing I would suggest is to make sure the stone is insured before it gets shipped out from the vendor (BGD in my case) that way you are covered in case of any mishaps.

 

[SimoneDi]

@ice empress I just want to say that if you are truly considering @Phoenix diamond to think about it a bit more before deciding on a 3ct diamond. That stone is a true unicorn and if you hang out around here for a bit longer, you will see that Phoenix is one of the pickiest (in the nicest way possible ) members around here with impeccable taste. She is also super color sensitive and selected that stone. The diamond is AGS000, it is not excellent, it is an idea cut as certified by the lab. Here is a high def video of the diamond:

 

[lovedogs]

@ice empress I just want to say that if you are truly considering @Phoenix diamond to think about it a bit more before deciding on a 3ct diamond. That stone is a true unicorn and if you hang out around here for a bit longer, you will see that Phoenix is one of the pickiest (in the nicest way possible members or here with impeccable taste. She is also super color sensitive and selected that stone. The diamond is AGS000, it is not excellent, it is an idea cut as certified by the lab. Here is a high def video of the diamond:

I could not agree more. It's an incredible stone.

 

[BlingDreams]

I could not agree more. It's an incredible stone.

Yep. It would kind of be equivalent to getting a Ferrari for your first car

 

[OoohShiny]

Hopefully Phoenix's stone would stave off DSS for quite a while!

 

[muskokathompson]

Perhaps the size would work without a halo? A simpler setting to start perhaps?

 

[ice empress]

More like a Bugatti!

Here is how a 5 carat looks on my finger... you ladies probably don’t think it looks outrageous. Rather, “just right”. Lol

 

[ice empress]

Sledge, the process you underwent is similar to what I feel I might end up doing. Thanks for sharing your experience! Seems simple enough. Did you ever see the stone in person prior to pulling the trigger?

SimineDi, thanks so much for sending the video. There’s no doubt it’s a stunning stone!!! Gorgeous!

Muskokathompson, that thought did cross my mind... going without the halo, that is. But Ive tried on (and seen on others) a fair number of rings and know that I find the simple solitaires too plain. I don’t want a halo to increase finger spread, but rather to enhance and define the stone. Catch 22.

 

[ice empress]

Just for fun, I’ll also post the absolute biggest honker I had (and will ever have) the privilege of trying on.

My boyfriend clearly isn’t the best photographer, plus his blackberry camera is terrible. It isn’t a dark brown stone...

Tiffany’s, 10.62 carat, E, IF (can’t remember but it was IF or VVS)

$2,555,000cdn + tax!!!

 

[sledge]

You're welcome @ice empress. I did not have the loose stone shipped to me ahead of time. Although had I wanted to do that I am certain BGD would have accommodated. I may have had to pay for an extra shipping charge is all, which isn't a big deal as I am domestic.

For you, this may be more problematic as I believe you will have to pay duties and taxes when the stone crosses the border. My concern would you paying a second time when the completed ring arrives.

This appears to be in the $4-5k USD range for your purchase size. Doing it twice would not be fun.

Here's a calculator to help you anticipate costs:

https://www.jamesallen.com/tax-calculator

I would speak with whichever vendor you choose and ask this specific question. I have zero doubts all will accommodate your request without hassle, but you do need to understand the duties and tax portion of the equation.

 

[sledge]

More like a Bugatti!

Here is how a 5 carat looks on my finger... you ladies probably don’t think it looks outrageous. Rather, “just right”. Lol

I know I will be in the minority here but I actually think that is too big for your finger size.

 

[OoohShiny]

I know I will be in the minority here but I actually think that is too big for your finger size.

I think the centre stone as a solitaire would be just fine!

 

[Wewechew]

I know I will be in the minority here but I actually think that is too big for your finger size.

Blasphemy!

 

[mrs-b]

I know I will be in the minority here but I actually think that is too big for your finger size.

Agreed. Gorgeous ring, tho. Something like this, but down a ct or two would look perfect.

 

[sledge]

I think the centre stone as a solitaire would be just fine!

Blasphemy!