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emerald cut help!

ekboy912

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
31
Hi all,

New to the forums. I’m looking for a 3ct emerald cut diamond for an engagement ring. she wants a L:W ratio of 1.3, color F and we decided to go with VS1. I was recently referred to a wholesaler via a mutual friend who said could get me “friends and family wholesale price”

so I was shown two diamonds after telling him what we wanted. both with GIA certs

#1 3.01 ct F, VS1. table 60% depth 70.1% very thick girdle. excellent polish very good symmetry. zero fluorescence

#2 3.02 ct, F, VS1. table 67%, depth 69.2%, slightly thick. excellent polish, very good symmetry. zero fluorescence

so i saw both diamonds, eye clean. honestly i couldnt really tell the difference between the two diamonds. the second one was definitely more sparkly. diamond #2 was $4000 more expensive. it did appear to be more sparkly than the first. is there anything i should be looking out for? do i ask for imaging or is that just for online diamonds since i can see the diamonds with my own eyes? he said the second diamond was more expensive because it was a “better diamond.” “better cut/proportions” but he couldnt elaborate for me. any and all thoughts are appreciated!

thanks!!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,334
Can you tell us your budget and we can show you what is available in your price range?

When you look at Emerald cuts you want to see

1) steps flashing on/off all the way into the center of the stone
2) even size steps
3) no black steps that stay black
4) nice windmills
Edit
5) not too many steps turned off or on at the same time
 
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Diamond Girl 21

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 26, 2017
Messages
755
Can you tell us your budget and we can show you what is available in your price range?

When you look at Emerald cuts you want to see

1) steps flashing on/off all the way into the center of the stone
2) even size steps
3) no black steps that stay black
4) nice windmills
Edit
5) not too many steps turned off or on at the same time
All of what @tyty333 said above. Another suggestion is to run your finger behind the stone when viewing it in the tweezers. You want to avoid seeing your finger through the stone. Happy hunting and good luck.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,374
Caveat that I am not an emerald expert, but some thoughts:

There is no such thing as "wholesale pricing". I automatically distrust people who use these terms, because they just aren't honest. We can't evaluate the stones he showed you without pics or preferably videos. Unfortunately, fancy cuts can't be chosen by the numbers alone, you need to see how they perform IRL.


These appeal to me (on JA). You would need to request the GIA certs if you are intersted in seeing them, since JA no longer posts them (but will send any you request via the CS chat).

1. This is a VS2 but D color so wanted to post it. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.02-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-6285912

2. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.01-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-9134482

3. This one has strong fluor so you would need to make sure the stone doesn't look "milky" IRL. I don't see any evidence of that in the video, but worth having a gemologist check. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.00-carat-e-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-6103088

4. I know this isn't what you asked for, but this might be the most beautiful thing I've seen in a while. Maybe I love it because it looks like a hybrid of asscher and emerald. Feel free to ignore though!
 

ekboy912

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
31
Caveat that I am not an emerald expert, but some thoughts:

There is no such thing as "wholesale pricing". I automatically distrust people who use these terms, because they just aren't honest. We can't evaluate the stones he showed you without pics or preferably videos. Unfortunately, fancy cuts can't be chosen by the numbers alone, you need to see how they perform IRL.


These appeal to me (on JA). You would need to request the GIA certs if you are intersted in seeing them, since JA no longer posts them (but will send any you request via the CS chat).

1. This is a VS2 but D color so wanted to post it. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.02-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-6285912

2. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.01-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-9134482

3. This one has strong fluor so you would need to make sure the stone doesn't look "milky" IRL. I don't see any evidence of that in the video, but worth having a gemologist check. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.00-carat-e-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-6103088

4. I know this isn't what you asked for, but this might be the most beautiful thing I've seen in a while. Maybe I love it because it looks like a hybrid of asscher and emerald. Feel free to ignore though!
This is partially why I decided to post in here. I felt like the guy was selling me pretty hard and I was pretty turned off to it. I found it to be unnecessary given the fact I made an appointment to see what he had to offer. I didn’t trust his use of “wholesale of wholesale price” and his blanket proclamation that one diamond was better than the other.

fyi diamond #1 was quoted 37000 and diamond #2 was 41000 so the prices appear to be in the ballpark of what i’ve found on the different online retailers. im naturally afraid of getting ripped off

thanks for the remark on the numbers, ill go back and look at them a second time for those characteristics. thanks!
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,374
This is partially why I decided to post in here. I felt like the guy was selling me pretty hard and I was pretty turned off to it. I found it to be unnecessary given the fact I made an appointment to see what he had to offer. I didn’t trust his use of “wholesale of wholesale price” and his blanket proclamation that one diamond was better than the other.

fyi diamond #1 was quoted 37000 and diamond #2 was 41000 so the prices appear to be in the ballpark of what i’ve found on the different online retailers. im naturally afraid of getting ripped off

thanks for the remark on the numbers, ill go back and look at them a second time for those characteristics. thanks!
Yeah, the prices aren't willdly off, but my concern is that he might not be actually selling you top quality stones with good performance, especially if he can't explain why one is better than the other.
 

ekboy912

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
31
Yeah, the prices aren't willdly off, but my concern is that he might not be actually selling you top quality stones with good performance, especially if he can't explain why one is better than the other.
that is my concern as well. hard for me to just take his word for it, and based on the guidelines here those two dont have ideal depth, so i was wondering how that affects the performance of the stones
 

ekboy912

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
31
i will go back and ask to take videos of the diamonds to show my girlfriend. how should i record the diamonds for you all to adequately view? 360 degree view like the online retailers?
 

Matthews1127

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 7, 2017
Messages
5,140
i will go back and ask to take videos of the diamonds to show my girlfriend. how should i record the diamonds for you all to adequately view? 360 degree view like the online retailers?
360 or front view. If you can capture video of the stone standing at N-S, that is a better way to evaluate the stone.
It’s difficult to evaluate a stone rotating on P3 facet.

I’m tossing this suggestion out to you for consideration:
Reaching out to Jonathan at DistinctiveGem (@Rhino ), and Brian Gavin at BGD may prove fruitful.
Both vendors cut and sell ideal cut EC’s.
The largest I saw on BGD’s website is a little over 2ct for $33+k, but that doesn’t mean larger EC’s are not possible with your budget.

I believe you will find the EC’s on distinctivegem’s website listed under Moissanite, BUT, Jon can provide natural EC’s with ideal cut proportions, as well.
He experimented with moissy, first, until he perfected the ideal cut EC.



 
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ekboy912

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
31
360 or front view. If you can capture video of the stone standing at N-S, that is a better way to evaluate the stone.
It’s difficult to evaluate a stone rotating on P3 facet.

I’m tossing this suggestion out to you for consideration:
Reaching out to Jonathan at DistinctiveGem (@Rhino ), and Brian Gavin at BGD may prove fruitful.
Both vendors cut and sell ideal cut EC’s.
The largest I saw on BGD’s website is a little over 2ct for $33+k, but that doesn’t mean larger EC’s are not possible with your budget.

I believe you will find the EC’s on distinctivegem’s website listed under Moissanite, BUT, Jon can provide natural EC’s with ideal cut proportions, as well.
He experimented with moissy, first, until he perfected the ideal cut EC.



i’m sorry can you explain the orientation of the diamond for me? what is N-S vs on P3 facet? i assumed thats what N-S meant. and “front” is just looking down from the table, correct?
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,334
That 3rd stone that @lovedogs posted is pretty strong. Lots of nice flashing going on (all the way into the center) plus its nice and crisp.
You probably already know this but pay attention to the length and width. Stones of the same carat weight can have broadly different
lengths and widths.

N-S = North/South
P3 = important step/facet/angle in step-cut stones
You can read about them here (Authored by @Karl_K, a Pricescope member and stone designer)

For Videos, they need to be up close and focused. Just need to see the front of the stone pretty much. Slowly rotate or rock the stone side-to-side
so we can see whether the steps are flashing.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,356
that is my concern as well. hard for me to just take his word for it, and based on the guidelines here those two dont have ideal depth, so i was wondering how that affects the performance of the stones
Hi!
Congratulations on your engagement....

I completely agree with comments about the misuse of the word "wholesale"- and indeed, any pushy tactics used by salespeople.
It's a shame- because a 3ct emerald cut is far best purchased/evaluated in person.
Asking for pictures is likely going to be fruitless.
It's incredibly difficult to photograph diamonds- and even if you had the best rotating video ( which they won't be able to produce themselves)- it's still better judging in person.
There are sellers who claim to have "Ideal" cut emerald cuts- all due respect to those that agree with these assessments, but there is NO trade or expert consensus on an "Ideal Cut" emerald- so the word is misused in my opinion when referring to an emerald cut.
Each of us loves different aspects of emerald cuts. Certain stones will appeal to some people that won't appeal to others. Sounds like you easily saw the difference in the two stones you viewed....
The kind folks here are as good as anyone I've ever seen at using the available info from the rotating videos....and you now are looking at internet pricing.
Today's internet pricing is virtually identical to wholesale prices of 15 years ago....

Maybe you can return to the place you went with new information and negotiate?
Clearly, you're in a stronger position today than before this thread.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,356
Re-reading my post- it was too harsh.
I admire consistency- and without a doubt, the cutters that do define their cut in this manner make it easy if that's your favorite flavor.
The term "Ideal" is the issue for me...but that should not be taken as any sort of dis on Jon's work- or anyone recommending the stones.
 

Ceilimom

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Messages
292
This is partially why I decided to post in here. I felt like the guy was selling me pretty hard and I was pretty turned off to it. I found it to be unnecessary given the fact I made an appointment to see what he had to offer. I didn’t trust his use of “wholesale of wholesale price” and his blanket proclamation that one diamond was better than the other.

fyi diamond #1 was quoted 37000 and diamond #2 was 41000 so the prices appear to be in the ballpark of what i’ve found on the different online retailers. im naturally afraid of getting ripped off

thanks for the remark on the numbers, ill go back and look at them a second time for those characteristics. thanks!
This salesperson isn't providing you with any bargains. Just a tip I was given by an appraiser, avoid girdles with grades of Extra and Very, you are paying for stones that are storing weight in the girdle.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,356
Just a tip I was given by an appraiser, avoid girdles with grades of Extra and Very, you are paying for stones that are storing weight in the girdle.
Avoid real estate with hills on it.
Spicy food will give you heartburn.
Generalizations can cause you to miss the best candidates:)
Which, in itself is a generalization.
But girdle ratings, in and of themselves are just not a good way to select- or eliminate.
 

iluvshinythings

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
846
I've been on PS since 2009 and I'm struggling to remember when a seller claiming to be a wholesaler has offered a better price or a better diamond for the same price than PS members have been able to find. Most of the time it is the complete opposite.
 

ekboy912

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
31
Updates: So I went back and looked at the diamonds and rocked them around. For the first diamond there was a black step that didnt really seem to disappear and for diamond two the middle didnt seem to light up well for me. Honestly, I don’t know if it was just my eyes playing tricks on me

reminder:
#1 3.01 ct F, VS1. table 60% depth 70.1% very thick girdle. excellent polish very good symmetry. zero fluorescence

#2 3.02 ct, F, VS1. table 67%, depth 69.2%, slightly thick. excellent polish, very good symmetry. zero fluorescence

Anyways, here are some photos!

This is a photo of diamond #1 B2B27CAE-BD7B-44EE-B648-9D66F4A519B8.jpeg
and these are photos of diamond #2 BBDC4BB2-ABED-476B-8EB6-FDC2FC8ED31F.jpeg E9571F73-3E73-40AD-9A82-2512A24DBEC3.jpeg can someone teach me how to upload videos from my iphone?
 
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ekboy912

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
31
further update - only considering diamond #2 now. noticed some cloudiness in the center of diamond #1 that corresponded to a cluster of small inclusions on the GIA certificate
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,374
further update - only considering diamond #2 now. noticed some cloudiness in the center of diamond #1 that corresponded to a cluster of small inclusions on the GIA certificate
From the videos I actually prefer stone 1 becuase it looks more "lively" in terms of how the steps turn "on and off".
 

ekboy912

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
31
From the videos I actually prefer stone 1 becuase it looks more "lively" in terms of how the steps turn "on and off".
thats interesting, because to me in person diamond #2 actually caught my eye more and seemed more “sparkly” to me. go figure ‍♂
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
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Jul 6, 2012
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ekboy912

Rough_Rock
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Aug 10, 2020
Messages
31
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