Education on emeralds

[Atwater]

@Atwater Thank you for sharing! Both emeralds are beautiful! Is the cabochon Muzo or Chivor? As I don’t know enough about pricing perhaps knowing more about the stone there maybe some wiggle room on the price? It is a big stone and I think unique to have such a fine, large stone. But don’t let size be your only determination on which stone to select (but I have to admit I would be in awe and be secretly coveting that one! !). Are both stones within your budget? Please let us know the dimensions on the cab!

-C4C

The cab is muzo. It is 13.5 by 9.5mm, height 7.5mm; minor or moderate oil.
The wiggle room will be pretty small. My budget is $10k, so the cab is within budget (the 1.52ct muzo was as well but it is no longer available). Now that the 1.52ct muzo is not available, I am considering either get the cab or wait for a suitable facet emerald. The 2.8ct chivor is my second favorite but it is about double my budget.

 

[Atwater]

@Atwater wow. Thanks for sharing these beautiful emeralds. Since I now know from experience how difficult it is to capture the true color and light, it’s so hard to comment on these. I like the 1.52 Muzo best but it’s just a gut feeling.

I think even the smallest face up of these 4 gems is a substantial size and will look stunning as a ring stone.

I’m glad you were able to see them one day and then leave them to think about it. That always allows for some perspective

I hope one at least takes your breath away

Looking forward to hearing more!!!!

I felt the 1.52ct muzo was the one before I saw the cab. The cab is super glowy in direct sun and then shows a tranquil green in shade. But it is hard to compare cab with a facet stone; their qualities are still so different. I have also envisioned a modern, clean design for the facet stone, with cab the ring is likely a totally different feel. Although the 1.52ct muzo is now not available, I still need to decide between getting the cab or keeping looking.

 

[Crazie4Cuts]

I am sorry to hear about the 1.52 Muzo, but one thing to note that you and the other buyer were on the same page about that emerald! You both have good taste and excellent ability to choose the same one!
Do what is best for you. As you decide what to do next, perhaps now that George knows and met you, he maybe able to see other stock availability which is coming down the pipeline? Does he have the ability to keep a list of clients that want a certain size, color, shape of emerald? Or do you just wait and see on IG what he has and then choose? I understand this was a special meeting with him in the USA, so I thought I ask you about his policy and what happens next if you do not decide on the cab. Maybe you will be able to ask him more questions about future inventory/selection.
-C4C

 

[T L]

I felt the 1.52ct muzo was the one before I saw the cab. The cab is super glowy in direct sun and then shows a tranquil green in shade. But it is hard to compare cab with a facet stone; their qualities are still so different. I have also envisioned a modern, clean design for the facet stone, with cab the ring is likely a totally different feel. Although the 1.52ct muzo is now not available, I still need to decide between getting the cab or keeping looking.

Sounds like you really preferred the Muzo, and the cab is a second choice. I would wait to get the right one. George has a huge inventory it seems. Is it the only Muzo like that he has in your price range?

 

[Rad_Fan]

The cab is either "minor or moderate oil"...I thought level of treatment affects price. Why the wishy washy? Shouldn't he know? Or is he considered to be a trusted vendor so it doesn't matter and no need for the peace of mind lab report?

 

[Sungura]

I felt the 1.52ct muzo was the one before I saw the cab. The cab is super glowy in direct sun and then shows a tranquil green in shade. But it is hard to compare cab with a facet stone; their qualities are still so different. I have also envisioned a modern, clean design for the facet stone, with cab the ring is likely a totally different feel. Although the 1.52ct muzo is now not available, I still need to decide between getting the cab or keeping looking.

Sorry the one you prefer is not available @Atwater

Regardless of what you decide, you now have had the chance to see multiple high quality emeralds. That’s a great education to add to what you have already learned as you prepared for your emerald purchase. If you decide to keep looking, you now have an idea what you are looking for.

 

[T L]

The cab is either "minor or moderate oil"...I thought level of treatment affects price. Why the wishy washy? Shouldn't he know? Or is he considered to be a trusted vendor so it doesn't matter and no need for the peace of mind lab report?

Some emerald dealers can evaluate their own emeralds as far as treatment is concerned. George will provide a lab report, or multiple lab reports, depending on the stone I believe, but Atwater should confirm. Despite this, the sale should be predicated on how the lab report comes out, and as the vendor described.

 

[voce]

Sad that 1.52 is no longer available. That was my favorite, too, because of the color and the evenness of the sheen. Did you snatch the cab?

 

[Rad_Fan]

Some emerald dealers can evaluate their own emeralds as far as treatment is concerned. George will provide a lab report, or multiple lab reports, depending on the stone I believe, but Atwater should confirm. Despite this, the sale should be predicated on how the lab report comes out, and as the vendor described.

Anyone could "evaluate" their own inventories...no? I think you even mentioned once that a Colombian dealer could sell Zambi emerald as Colombian's from another thread. I am just surprised to hear it from him and also from another emerald dealer I've spoke to previously. that's all. Maybe that is the general practice of emerald dealers? Or perhaps meeting him in person makes a difference?

PS taught me trust but verify and I prefer knowing before buying.

 

[Rad_Fan]

Maybe 1.52 would become available again...crossing fingers for you.

 

[Atwater]

UNIQUE to me will be that 3ct elongated Chivor but that POP of the cab is mesmerizing.

How would you wear the emerald? Enjoying it mostly indoor or outdoor? Consider the 1 which you're most attractive to under your usual environments?

Fun problem to ponder for a Sunday.

Very good point. I have an office job, so most of my weekday time is spent under fluorescent lights. That is also why I made sure to check them under that light. They do not look bad; mostly stays green. I do not think they look worse than in natural diffused light.

 

[T L]

We’re you blown away by them, like you were at the ring in the antique store?

 

[T L]

Anyone could "evaluate" their own inventories...no? I think you even mentioned once that a Colombian dealer could sell Zambi emerald as Colombian's from another thread. I am just surprised to hear it from him and also from another emerald dealer I've spoke to previously. that's all. Maybe that is the general practice of emerald dealers? Or perhaps meeting him in person makes a difference?

PS taught me trust but verify and I prefer knowing before buying.

He specializes exclusively in emeralds. Most decent quality emeralds are, at worst, moderately treated, so specifying “minor to moderate” is a safe range that a gem lab would most likely come back with. Emeralds that are significantly enhanced are really not the caliber of the stones that Atwater posted.

A good emerald dealer can tell the amount of treatment with standard gemological tools, or they may have the emerald prior to treatment. I typically am more ambivalent about how some dealers grade the color quality of their goods, as that is way more speculative.

 

[Atwater]

Anyone could "evaluate" their own inventories...no? I think you even mentioned once that a Colombian dealer could sell Zambi emerald as Colombian's from another thread. I am just surprised to hear it from him and also from another emerald dealer I've spoke to previously. that's all. Maybe that is the general practice of emerald dealers? Or perhaps meeting him in person makes a difference?

His asked price is based on minor oil. George says he thinks it is minor, but he cannot be sure about cabs, so it could be moderate oil. He says he have much more confidence in estimating the treatment regarding facet stones, but not so sure regarding cabs. I did not negotiate the price of the cab as I was not sure I wanted it. But given the negotiation on the 1.52ct I suspect the wiggle room is small (or maybe I am not good at negotiating). The facet stones he showed have the local (Columbia) certificates, and he says the AGL reports usually confirms the treatment in local certificates. Maybe he has not certified the cab in Columbia yet.

I made it clear early on that I want a AGL prestige report for the stone I end up buying. George has no problem with that. However, the process is I will need to pay the full amount (via wire) first, and he will mail it to the AGL and the return address will be mine. If the report says more than minor oil, I can return the stone to him and he will refund me. If I decide to keep the stone, we can re-negotiate the price. I know there is still risk since it was through wiring (as compare to paypal), but I am not too nervous about it. I suppose I found him trust-able. (Maybe I should be more cautious?) Someone who's not comfortable with the wiring may try to insist on paypal to see if he agrees.

 

[Atwater]

We’re you blown away by them, like you were at the ring in the antique store?

I felt a connection with the 1.52ct stone. In the final stage, we looked at the 2.8ct Chivor and the 1.52ct muzo one by one. When I was looking at the 2.8ct Chivor alone, I was like it is such a beautiful stone. When I was looking at the 1.52ct muzo alone, I felt more than that, I felt I like it; I just like it. So that was the point I started to negotiate price with George and make arrangements for the next steps.
I think George showed me the cab as he knew there might be possibility that the other lady could still want it. The cab is a little seducer, showing off in the sun and questioning me: are you sure? look at me...

 

[Rad_Fan]

As long as you're comfortable with his terms, that's cool since you have met him.

 

[T L]

Yes, you probably loved the Chivor until you saw the Muzo. You’re definitely getting a great education on emeralds and their nuances in color.

 

[Atwater]

Sorry the one you prefer is not available @Atwater

Regardless of what you decide, you now have had the chance to see multiple high quality emeralds. That’s a great education to add to what you have already learned as you prepared for your emerald purchase. If you decide to keep looking, you now have an idea what you are looking for.

Yes, I am gaining more experiences and what I like. I also found myself wanting to explore more; emeralds are indeed quite fascinating. There is another lady (@Eka gems) who often shows emeralds. Maybe during one of my trips to China I will pay her store a visit. Her prices are not higher than George's given the similar specs/treatment/certificate but again this may be difficult to judge just based on photos.

 

[Atwater]

Sad that 1.52 is no longer available. That was my favorite, too, because of the color and the evenness of the sheen. Did you snatch the cab?

I used "balanced" but evenness of the sheen is a much better description. I have not pulled the trigger on the cab yet. I think even if I get the cab, I will still want a facet emerald.

 

[Rad_Fan]

I think even if I get the cab, I will still want a facet emerald.

Bingo! I say you forget the cab and wait for the right faceted one.

 

[Atwater]

I am sorry to hear about the 1.52 Muzo, but one thing to note that you and the other buyer were on the same page about that emerald! You both have good taste and excellent ability to choose the same one!
Do what is best for you. As you decide what to do next, perhaps now that George knows and met you, he maybe able to see other stock availability which is coming down the pipeline? Does he have the ability to keep a list of clients that want a certain size, color, shape of emerald? Or do you just wait and see on IG what he has and then choose? I understand this was a special meeting with him in the USA, so I thought I ask you about his policy and what happens next if you do not decide on the cab. Maybe you will be able to ask him more questions about future inventory/selection.
-C4C

Before our meeting, George made it clear that there is no pressure for me to decide or choose one in the meeting. If I did not found one I like, he would get a better idea of what I like and keep looking for me. So I suppose he has a list of clients and what they are looking for. I would be really impressed if the list is all in his head; some people can do it that way.

 

[GeliL]

@Atwater I actually did see ekagem's emeralds. I believe the clarity is not as good as George's, but still all very beautiful and the price is adequate. But then again I have not seen George's stones in person (I would if he is ever in the area), so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

 

[Atwater]

@Atwater I actually did see ekagem's emeralds. I believe the clarity is not as good as George's, but still all very beautiful and the price is adequate. But then again I have not seen George's stones in person (I would if he is ever in the area), so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Thank you for the information. The stones George shows me are indeed quite clean (except the trillian one). The two chivor are really clean, cleaner than the two muzo. I wonder if the 2.8ct chivor could have potential to emulate Michelle Yeoh's ring.

 

[GeliL]

Thank you for the information. The stones George shows me are indeed quite clean (except the trillian one). The two chivor are really clean, cleaner than the two muzo. I wonder if the 2.8ct chivor could have potential to emulate Michelle Yeoh's ring.

Sorry if I missed this, but in your eyes, what is the color difference between the Muzo and Chivor? Is there a difference in price per carat? I am actually looking for a nice Chivor stone and liked that 2.2ct Chivor a lot...and I'm curious about the price.

Edit: Just to add more about ekagem's emeralds. They are all still clean by emerald standards, but even in video you can see that her stones have more inclusions than George's, making it comparatively more sleepy. But I would say unless you want top top quality emeralds, hers are probably already very eyecatching.

 

[Atwater]

Sorry if I missed this, but in your eyes, what is the color difference between the Muzo and Chivor? Is there a difference in price per carat? I am actually looking for a nice Chivor stone and liked that 2.2ct Chivor a lot...and I'm curious about the price.

Edit: Just to add more about ekagem's emeralds. They are all still clean by emerald standards, but even in video you can see that her stones have more inclusions than George's, making it comparatively more sleepy. But I would say unless you want top top quality emeralds, hers are probably already very eyecatching.

The chivor usually have more blue tone than the muzo and are also cleaner. The two muzo are considered pure green or vivid green, but I still think they have slight blue in them which makes the green more pleasing. The blue tone in the two chivor are more visible/noticeable. The muzo cab also have more noticeable blue tone, more like a chivor.
The 2.2ct chivor and the 1.78ct muzo are both at $5500/ct. The 1.52ct muzo is at $6000/ct. The 2.8ct chivor is at $7000/ct due to a color zoning at the side which should be covered by setting. George says the best value is the 2.2ct chivor.

 

[GeliL]

The chivor usually have more blue tone than the muzo and are also cleaner. The two muzo are considered pure green or vivid green, but I still think they have slight blue in them which makes the green more pleasing. The blue tone in the two chivor are more visible/noticeable. The muzo cab also have more noticeable blue tone, more like a chivor.
The 2.2ct chivor and the 1.78ct muzo are both at $5500/ct. The 1.52ct muzo is at $6000/ct. The 2.8ct chivor is at $7000/ct due to a color zoning at the side which should be covered by setting. George says the best value is the 2.2ct chivor.

I heard that Chivor stones are lighter and more blue, but it's interesting that its also cleaner. I have never seen a Chivor stone so I have not seen the difference. I prefer blue green stones actually!

The prices actually sound pretty good for top quality emeralds. I will definitely pay George a visit when I have the chance! His inventory must be really interesting to see, he probably has more fancy cuts back in Bogota.

 

[T L]

Thank you for the information. The stones George shows me are indeed quite clean (except the trillian one). The two chivor are really clean, cleaner than the two muzo. I wonder if the 2.8ct chivor could have potential to emulate Michelle Yeoh's ring.

I am posting a really good picture of her ring, as I finally watched all of the film without scanning through it. It’s really flawless looking and duck neck color.

I think Chivor are cleaner because they are lighter, which typically means less chromium, which affects crystal growth adversely, hence inclusions.

 

[T L]

The reason the prices are so reasonable is because of the treatment. If they had less treatment, the price per carat would be much higher.

 

[T L]

I recently saw this company Instagram, and I just about fainted at almost all of their emeralds, Including this cabochon. I know nothing about them or their prices, but I thought I would post for educational purposes.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BbU3DZThlI7/?igshid=uy0tq4whzzyh

 

[prs]

His asked price is based on minor oil. George says he thinks it is minor, but he cannot be sure about cabs, so it could be moderate oil. He says he have much more confidence in estimating the treatment regarding facet stones, but not so sure regarding cabs. I did not negotiate the price of the cab as I was not sure I wanted it. But given the negotiation on the 1.52ct I suspect the wiggle room is small (or maybe I am not good at negotiating). The facet stones he showed have the local (Columbia) certificates, and he says the AGL reports usually confirms the treatment in local certificates. Maybe he has not certified the cab in Columbia yet.

I made it clear early on that I want a AGL prestige report for the stone I end up buying. George has no problem with that. However, the process is I will need to pay the full amount (via wire) first, and he will mail it to the AGL and the return address will be mine. If the report says more than minor oil, I can return the stone to him and he will refund me. If I decide to keep the stone, we can re-negotiate the price. I know there is still risk since it was through wiring (as compare to paypal), but I am not too nervous about it. I suppose I found him trust-able. (Maybe I should be more cautious?) Someone who's not comfortable with the wiring may try to insist on paypal to see if he agrees.

Just to confuse things, last year we sent a 9.26ct Columbian, faceted emerald to AGL for a prestige report. It came back as minor to moderate oil, maybe on larger stones the oil can vary across the stone.