E-Ring Dream to E-Ring Nightmare in the Diamond District

[Hephephippo]

1) First things first. Many appraisers ask the reason for your visit--valuation for insurance purposes? Valuation for estate purposes and resale? Validation of purchase? And the list goes on. Let them know why you are there..."I bought a ring and want to know what I purchased is what.... You get the idea. Provide the GIA cert.

2) If there is a laser inscription, the gemologist will do his best to identify it under a microscope. If it is present and visual, you can also look to see it. Hopefully, it should match your GIA cert. Sometimes settings can obstruct the laser inscription. In the event the inscription is not visualized, etc, gemologists are educated to look for inclusions, color, clarity,etc, to match your cert. Like a map and the geography is very telling.

3) Your stone is set. That said, there are some limitations to what can be seen. Again settings can obscure nicks and chips--which can happen on any stone "new" or "reset' or "estate" piece.


Recertification by GIA is done through GIA, not with the appraiser. Since you are concerned about "what" you purchased, verify what you have. Go from there. Big breaths.

cheers--Sharon

@canuk-gal Sharon, thank you. If I can give you an internet hug please... I'm very very sad that instead of us celebrating a new chapter we are stressed by this. I am writing down your advice and suggestion as it is very constructive and will help SO in the meeting with the appraiser tomorrow. Big thanks !!

 

[alamana]

I'm back to feeling bad about this whole thing but i guess the appraisal outcome will help us with our case.

Thanks for pointing us in this direction, very helpful although the reality sounds horrible right now.

Just what about "the reality" is it that "sounds horrible" right now? You likely have a good GIA cert, the appraiser will be able to tell you if the diamond in the ring matches the cert, and you have a seller who is willing to do exchanges so you can start over if you want. Not sure what is so "horrible right now" unless you are simply referring to the fact that your SO bought a ring you don't like.

 

[yssie]

@Hephephippo my personality is apparently like yours: better safe than sorry, and any additional expense/effort needed to secure that peace of mind before committing is always worth it.

However, as of right now, there is no reason for you to believe that your vendor has deceived you. ”Catastrophizing”, coming up with elaborate plans to browbeat your vendor into making amends for something he very well may not have done... You aren’t doing yourself any favors. I hope the appraisal tomorrow goes well and that the only point of contention remaining is the quality of the setting.

One suggestion: If you do wind you keeping the ring, or the stone, or exchanging the stone for another... I would STRONGLY recommend having this tax exemption nonsense stricken from the books. Reprocess the same transaction if necessary. Tax fraud is NOT something you want to muck around with, and your SO is as guilty as this vendor - and now you’ve posted about it on a public website, which is irreversible and easily-traced.

 

[Hephephippo]

Just what about "the reality" is it that "sounds horrible" right now? You likely have a good GIA cert, the appraiser will be able to tell you if the diamond in the ring matches the cert, and you have a seller who is willing to do exchanges so you can start over if you want. Not sure what is so "horrible right now" unless you are simply referring to the fact that your SO bought a ring you don't like.

Human, I don't understand your cynicism! Such negative energy. Is it unreasonable to feel horrible when going through an uncertain period? I feel horrible to learn that there are challenges to appeasing a ring that is already set, or having it re-certified. Not that it's your business to know or its even related to this but if I have a .5 carat ring and i know it is what it is, I would feel good about it. I don't feel good that a lot of red flags are raised by this gem and I can't wait for an appraiser to alleviate my fears or not. Like I said. Stop judging. There are many other threads that may need your "help" since you sound like an expert with golden wisdom to share?

 

[Hephephippo]

@Hephephippo my personality is apparently like yours: better safe than sorry, and any additional expense/effort needed to secure that peace of mind before committing is always worth it.

However, as of right now, there is no reason for you to believe that your vendor has deceived you. ”Catastrophizing”, coming up with elaborate plans to browbeat your vendor into making amends for something he very well may not have done... You aren’t doing yourself any favors. I hope the appraisal tomorrow goes well and that the only point of contention remaining is the quality of the setting.

One suggestion: If you do wind you keeping the ring, or the stone, or exchanging the stone for another... I would STRONGLY recomm nd having this tax exemption nonsense stricken from the books. Reprocess the same transaction if necessary. Tax fraud is NOT something you want to muck around with, and your SO is as guilty as this vendor - and now you’ve posted about it on a public website, which is irreversible and easily-traced.

Duly noted and appreciate the advice. SO said his friend was with him during the purchase so it was legit (and as such not anyone's fault, not even the vendor). Although I still wish it were not the case since it makes me question how wise my SO is and his friend for being so gullible to buy a ring so quickly. I think it was the circumstance that they were together.

Anyhow actually you might be right -- I might be so paranoid about this whole situation that I might be working myself over nothing, simply fearful of the plethora of negative reviews about this place. But indeed there is a possible silver lining -- solution to all this.

I do appreciate the reality check though. I think I needed that.

 

[flyingpig]

Nobody should feel uncertain after spending 30k.
Unfortunately, this is normal in this industry and the reason why an online community like Pricescope exists.

OP, I fully understand your frustration.
At the same time, it is not the worst story I have read here either. At least, you can go back for an exchange.
Take a big breathe.

 

[Hephephippo]

Duly noted and appreciate the advice, @yssie . SO said his friend was with him during the purchase so it was legit (and as such not anyone's fault, not even the vendor). Although I still wish it were not the case since it makes me question how wise my SO is and his friend for being so gullible to buy a ring so quickly. I think it was the circumstance that they were together.

Anyhow actually you might be right -- I might be so paranoid about this whole situation that I might be working myself over nothing, simply fearful of the plethora of negative reviews about this place. But indeed there is a possible silver lining -- solution to all this -- i just have to wait until tomorrow

I do appreciate the reality check though. I think I needed that.

 

[Hephephippo]

Nobody should feel uncertain after spending 30k.
Unfortunately, this is normal in this industry and the reason why an online community like Pricescope exists.

OP, I fully understand your frustration.
At the same time, it is not the worst story I have read here either. At least, you can go back for an exchange.
Take a big breathe.

Woozah. Thank you so much for the breath @flyingpig I value the thoughts and advice shared in this community and yes it could have been worse and the best case is, we definitely do still have other course of action in this case (like exchanging the total value for a loose diamond-- thus returning both rings). Phew!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

The old saying "trust by verify" is apropos here. Now if we could only apply this to HUSBANDS! LOLOL

Take a break OP--from the worry. Guilt is a useless emotion...and at this point you have options and as Yssie said, no reason for undue suspicion. Trust, but verify.

cheers--Sharon

 

[PepperT]

I just want to say that I hope this all works out for you. One thing that is in my mind from your original post is the tax exemption part. I would want the sales tax issue straightened out if it were me. If I ended up keeping the original diamond or trading it for another, i would want the vendor, where you are locally, to collect whatever sales tax is due on the purchase and to have a receipt with that included on it with the purchase. I know even when I have purchased from vendors out of my state, I have to pay a "use tax" on my state taxes when I file at tax time. I would be careful about the tax thing. Best wishes.

 

[Hephephippo]

I just want to say that I hope this all works out for you. One thing that is in my mind from your original post is the tax exemption part. I would want the sales tax issue straightened out if it were me. If I ended up keeping the original diamond or trading it for another, i would want the vendor, where you are locally, to collect whatever sales tax is due on the purchase and to have a receipt with that included on it with the purchase. I know even when I have purchased from vendors out of my state, I have to pay a "use tax" on my state taxes when I file at tax time. I would be careful about the tax thing. Best wishes.

I think this is a great idea -- I just told SO especially since the ring is for him/us not his friend who bought it for him. SO definitely likes his taxes straight and he did say he prefers that.

 

[alamana]

I don't feel good that a lot of red flags are raised by this gem and I can't wait for an appraiser to alleviate my fears or not.

You haven't identified a single "red flag raised by this gem," let alone "a lot" of them. You are either 1) acting hysterical for no good reason for attention or something, or 2) desperate to bully this seller because your boyfriend didn't get you what you would have preferred. Either way, not a cool thing to do publicly.

And, as an aside, I happen to be a tax professional who formerly worked in enforcement, so your SO is definitely not getting any sympathy from me. Scammers often get scammed, and in my opinion they deserve it.

 

[rockysalamander]

I can't tell much from the certification, but you noted that it is 2+ carats, but the certification shows it only being 6.75 x 6.65 mm in size. That is more the spread I'd expect from a 1.8ish carat princess. So, it is deep for its weight and seems to face-up small. That does not mean it is not sparkly or lovely, but performance may suffer. Really study the diamond under a variety of lighting to be sure you love it.

I know nothing about NY law, but under federal law you have 3 days to cancel a purchase of $25 or more. If you are still within those 3 days, they have to accept it for a full refund provided it is in the same condition as sold.
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0176-buyers-remorse-when-ftcs-cooling-rule-may-help

If this vendor becomes a dead-end, you can always seek out PS vendor to see if they would take it in trade toward a diamond they sell. You will lose money, but it may allow you to move to something you feel better about and get a better exchange/upgrade policy. At the least, you may feel more positive and confident about the transaction.

 

[Hephephippo]

You haven't identified a single "red flag raised by this gem," let alone "a lot" of them. You are either 1) acting hysterical for no good reason for attention or something, or 2) desperate to bully this seller because your boyfriend didn't get you what you would have preferred. Either way, not a cool thing to do publicly.

And, as an aside, I happen to be a tax professional who formerly worked in enforcement, so your SO is definitely not getting any sympathy from me. Scammers often get scammed, and in my opinion they deserve it.

Finally some valuable insight from a cynic. I like how you nitpick so let me take your lead except this time I actually agree with you in that I hate scammers in all forms. I trust my SO and he informed me his friend bought ring on our behalf. That is actually not a scam. Only problem is I want SO to have it fully documented and would rather it be taxed than not.

Other than the above, I think your point is echoing to oblivion

 

[Hephephippo]

I can't tell much from the certification, but you noted that it is 2+ carats, but the certification shows it only being 6.75 x 6.65 mm in size. That is more the spread I'd expect from a 1.8ish carat princess. So, it is deep for its weight and seems to face-up small. That does not mean it is not sparkly or lovely, but performance may suffer. Really study the diamond under a variety of lighting to be sure you love it.

I know nothing about NY law, but under federal law you have 3 days to cancel a purchase of $25 or more. If you are still within those 3 days, they have to accept it for a full refund provided it is in the same condition as sold.
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0176-buyers-remorse-when-ftcs-cooling-rule-may-help

If this vendor becomes a dead-end, you can always seek out PS vendor to see if they would take it in trade toward a diamond they sell. You will lose money, but it may allow you to move to something you feel better about and get a better exchange/upgrade policy. At the least, you may feel more positive and confident about the transaction.

This is actually a wonderful suggestion. At this point, and in case this turns out a flawed diamond, we would rather lose some money and have peace of mind (charged to experience) than have a ring that will remind us of SO's naivete.

 

[Slickk]

I want to echo what @rockysalamander said. I am definitely no expert but $30k for that size stone (I know he got the setting and band too) seemed high to me and especially after I looked at James Allen for comparables (6.75mm x 6.65mm ~ 1.8ct at ~$14k). Good luck with the appraisal tomorrow.

 

[whitewave]

30k seems crazy high unless there is a ton of high quality pave on both the ER setting and the band.

 

[whitewave]

I can't tell much from the certification, but you noted that it is 2+ carats, but the certification shows it only being 6.75 x 6.65 mm in size. That is more the spread I'd expect from a 1.8ish carat princess. So, it is deep for its weight and seems to face-up small. That does not mean it is not sparkly or lovely, but performance may suffer. Really study the diamond under a variety of lighting to be sure you love it.

I know nothing about NY law, but under federal law you have 3 days to cancel a purchase of $25 or more. If you are still within those 3 days, they have to accept it for a full refund provided it is in the same condition as sold.
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0176-buyers-remorse-when-ftcs-cooling-rule-may-help

If this vendor becomes a dead-end, you can always seek out PS vendor to see if they would take it in trade toward a diamond they sell. You will lose money, but it may allow you to move to something you feel better about and get a better exchange/upgrade policy. At the least, you may feel more positive and confident about the transaction.

I was also wondering about the 3 day law. And, yes, that spread is on the smaller side...

 

[Hephephippo]

30k seems crazy high unless there is a ton of high quality pave on both the ER setting and the band.

I don't know anything about pricing but asking here and to @Sandeek too -- would an appraiser be able to provide a value? Pricing?

 

[whitewave]

I don't know anything about pricing but asking here and to @Sandeek too -- would an appraiser be able to provide a value? Pricing?

I don't know.

Getting back to size, here is a 2.0 carat blue nile princess
6.90 x 6.84 x 4.90
j VVS2
$10,710

(Of course, lower color is less expensive)


It is a head scratcher how this got up to 30k with a 6 year old GIA certificate.

 

[whitewave]

You have to copy and paste blue nile links.

Princess
2.03 carat
F
VS2
So matches yours but much bigger
7.01 x 6.90 x 4.91
$16,262

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD09808531?refTab=DIAMONDS

 

[Hephephippo]

I don't know.

Getting back to size, here is a 2.0 carat blue nile princess
6.90 x 6.84 x 4.90
j VVS2
$10,710

(Of course, lower color is less expensive)


It is a head scratcher how this got up to 30k with a 6 year old GIA certificate.

Another addition to my worry I just asked SO and he said that the ring is mid-20s priced but that is still steep compared to the blue nile specs you provided. I am guessing the wedding bands make up the difference.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Of course an appraiser will give you a value. But appraisal values are often inflated. We could easily give you realistic price comps here. But it sounds like the stone is not well cut. It faces up like a stone less than 2 cts. I think the deception was not explaining the no return policy until after he signed the sales receipt. That's the first reason I'd return and the second is that the diamond is probably not well cut!

NO HONEST VENDOR has a NO RETURN policy. Return that ring however you can! We will help you find a better cut stone at a fair price!

 

[whitewave]

Even is the setting is extravagant at 6k, bling. Pave, halo.. the works... and the wedding band is 4 k....

It still seems like he was ripped off by several thousand dollars...

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

My biggest concern is the small face up size and generally insane price. I would do whatever I could for a full refund and start over.

 

[Hephephippo]

Of course an appraiser will give you a value. But appraisal values are often inflated. We could easily give you realistic price comps here. But it sounds like the stone is not well cut. It faces up like a stone less than 2 cts. I think the deception was not explaining the no return policy until after he signed the sales receipt. That's the first reason I'd return and the second is that the diamond is probably not well cut!

NO HONEST VENDOR has a NO RETURN policy. Return that ring however you can! We will help you find a better cut stone at a fair price!

I agree that a good businessman will always be honest and educate the consumer to the basics such as return policy too. Unfortunately some folks here don't see the red flags.

Not sure if ring is within 3days but SO will definitely be informed of this so he can try that route tomorrow if it applies.

 

[whitewave]

Try to return it, but in the very least if you have to exchange it we can still help.

 

[whitewave]

Forget the appraisal, I'd have SO go straight to the store when they open.

 

[MollyMalone]

* * * I know nothing about NY law, but under federal law you have 3 days to cancel a purchase of $25 or more. If you are still within those 3 days, they have to accept it for a full refund provided it is in the same condition as sold.
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0176-buyers-remorse-when-ftcs-cooling-rule-may-help
* * *

Sorry, folks, but that federal "cooling off" Rule doesn't apply to this situation. It's for door-to-door sales and, e.g., purchases made at one of those itinerate shows at a hotel. From the blue box at the top of the linked page:

The FTC’s Cooling-Off Rule gives you a 3-day right to cancel a sale made at your home, workplace or dormitory, or at a seller’s temporary location, like a hotel or motel room, convention center, fairground or restaurant. It also applies when you invite a salesperson to make a presentation in your home. But not all [such] sales are covered.​

 

[rockysalamander]

Sorry, folks, but that federal "cooling off" Rule doesn't apply to this situation. It's for door-to-door sales and, e.g., purchases made at one of those itinerate shows at a hotel. From the blue box at the top of the linked page:

The FTC’s Cooling-Off Rule gives you a 3-day right to cancel a sale made at your home, workplace or dormitory, or at a seller’s temporary location, like a hotel or motel room, convention center, fairground or restaurant. It also applies when you invite a salesperson to make a presentation in your home.​

Argh!