E-Ring Dream to E-Ring Nightmare in the Diamond District

[Hephephippo]

Argh!

Thanks for sympathizing. I really hope we can return this ring -- just praying for that now especially after reading it seems that SO grossly overpaid for it.

 

[Slickk]

Forget the appraisal, I'd have SO go straight to the store when they open.

This ^ Sorry, OP, I would recommend the same...I think you guys can do better, and most importantly, feel better about such a large and significant purchase.

 

[rockysalamander]

I think if you stick with a reputable appraiser, then the receipt gives you an out. If the ring appraises below the price paid = refund. Fingers crossed that the appraiser finds this to be so. Maybe the "shitty setting" will be the saving grace to knock the value enough to use that provision.

 

[Hephephippo]

I think if you stick with a reputable appraiser, then the receipt gives you an out. If the ring appraises below the price paid = refund. Fingers crossed that the appraiser finds this to be so. Maybe the "shitty setting" will be the saving grace to knock the value enough to use that provision.

I can't imagine how this ring would appraise at or above the paid value for it based on what I'm learning here. Even if it does look sparkly and pretty (from my naive eyes), I still can't make up for the price difference to the blue nile diamond. it also is not halo and can't imagine the tiny pave stones to be significant in price. I just hope the merchant won't make it difficult for us to return this

 

[rockysalamander]

On the tax issue...get it cleared up by paying the tax. Raising this as a threat to gain action puts your SO and his friend at much more risk.The merchant will likely only get a slap on the wrist for a procedural violation of accepting with the person and photo match. Your SO and friend would not be so kindly treated as they presented the paperwork to the vendor. Not a situation I'd want to highlight. Caveat that I'm Not a tax pro.

 

[Hephephippo]

On the tax issue...get it cleared up by paying the tax. Raising this as a threat to gain action puts your SO and his friend at much more risk.The merchant will likely only get a slap on the wrist for a procedural violation of accepting with the person and photo match. Your SO and friend would not be so kindly treated as they presented the paperwork to the vendor. Not a situation I'd want to highlight. Caveat that I'm Not a tax pro.

Not a tax pro myself but I do think if the person made the purchase (his friend) then that's purely legitimate. My concern outside that is long term documents and insurance, tax etc and legalities if any apply. Can't comment specifically since I was not present nor do I know the details of the paperwork except the GIA certificate. Either way SO will spend tomorrow rectifying this matter, appraisal, return and tax stuff.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If this ring is close to 2 cts, he very much overpaid. Here are some price comps. If we even allowed $5k for the settings (which likely were overpriced, too), he still overpaid.

Lowest price "excellent cut" 2 ct F VS2 at $17,830. And note that this 2.04 is 7.26 x 7.11mm!!!

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/2.04-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3679441

This is the highest priced one under 2.2 cts at 2.01 cts, $19,140 and is smaller at 6.90 x 6.68mm

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/2.01-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-324489

The one he bought is smaller than those. The 2-3 stones priced in between those two were all over 7mm. So I'd definitely return this one no matter what. I just hope you can contest it with the CC company based on not informing you of no return until after the sale had taken place. Thank goodness it was paid for with a credit card!

 

[Tophat1]

Regarding the appraised value clause - OP will need a receipt that specifies
How much the e ring costs without the band, or she will need the band appraised too

 

[whitewave]

Posting this here for future readers purchasing in the diamond district...

**edited to remove affiliate linked website**!

From that link: "Secondly, the majority of diamonds sold in the district aren’t well-cut and more than 90% of goods sold there are sub-par in my opinion. On top of that, the majority of shops on the 47th Street have difficult return and exchange policies."

 

[whitewave]

And
"Before handing your credit card or cash over to a jeweler, you need to be crystal clear on the type of return or refund policies they have in store. If you are a first time buyer, the semantics of return and refund can be very confusing and the context can be different from other forms of retail businesses.

In short, return means you can only return the item and exchange it for another item. Any money you paid will be locked in with the jeweler and converted into the form of a credit. A refund means that you can get your money back. It is best to get all the refund/return terns and conditions written out in black and white."

 

[GearGirly]

OP, I just want to give you little support, this is really stressful when it should be such a happy moment for you and your partner. I feel for both of you. You guys are embarking on a future together, sounds like you support each other. I truly hope it all works out!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

And
"Before handing your credit card or cash over to a jeweler, you need to be crystal clear on the type of return or refund policies they have in store. If you are a first time buyer, the semantics of return and refund can be very confusing and the context can be different from other forms of retail businesses.

In short, return means you can only return the item and exchange it for another item. Any money you paid will be locked in with the jeweler and converted into the form of a credit. A refund means that you can get your money back. It is best to get all the refund/return terns and conditions written out in black and white."

And I would just add to that last statement:

Never buy a diamond unless there is an unconditional return policy, preferably at least 10 days to allow time to get advice (which is best to do before you buy it) and an appraisal. Not to mention, be sure she likes it within the return period!

 

[AprilBaby]

Just trying to understand... first you said he paid in a shady deal with the guy not there. Then you said his friend was there and FI paid on his credit card. Now you are saying the friend bought the ring for him. Which is it?

Most buyers are naive unfortunately so I don’t see where he was deceived. I think you just don’t like the ring and you are trying to justify blaming the jeweler with a changing story. Just be honest with them (and Us) and try and work it out legit. And don’t name them for your sake.

 

[lalala]

Just trying to understand... first you said he paid in a shady deal with the guy not there. Then you said his friend was there and FI paid on his credit card. Now you are saying the friend bought the ring for him. Which is it?

I'm confused about this too.

The whole issue with SO's friend/taxes might bring on other complications in resolving your issue. I'm sorry you have to navigate through this.

 

[lalala]

From that link: "Secondly, the majority of diamonds sold in the district aren’t well-cut and more than 90% of goods sold there are sub-par in my opinion. On top of that, the majority of shops on the 47th Street have difficult return and exchange policies."

Well my post was deleted for an affiliate link...

Yet people post links on here all the time

 

[Queenie60]

I'm sorry for the OP. Such a negative way to purchase a ring. Hope you can work this out.

 

[srke]

Just thought I'd throw on my 2c. There seems to be a lot of comment directed towards whether this is simply a case of not liking the ring as if it makes OP's anxiety less valid.
Given this is a high cost item that for many people would carry an immense amount of sentimental and symbolic value, I think she should absolutely do what she can to try to get a refund on a ring that seems to be the opposite of what she was looking for and that, by the sounds of it, was probably sold to her SO through high-pressure sales tactics. I think she should try as much as possible to have something shes truly happy with.

As much as it may be the case that the job of an SA is to pressure people into buying stuff, that doesn't mean it is a scrupulous thing to do when what you are relying on is the nativité of your customer to make the sale. And especially for an item that you would be well aware would carry significant sentimental value and would be a substantial financial commitment, and then to hide behind a hard no refunds policy when you would have known the purchase decision at the time was not a well informed one.

Sure a customer could have done his research first, etc etc, but would I have no sympathy for stores whose business model relies on people making stupid rash decisions. There are plenty of jewellers out there that do fantastic work and stand 100% behind everything they do. The unscrupulous players out there that take advantage of people's ignorance and rely on their customers making rash, emotionally driven decisions on something that is incredibly sentimental, just really make me angry.

Whether or not OP will have any recourse will likely depend on the goodwill of the store, whether the store misrepresented the item or whether there is any product fault, and there well may not be, but I don't think it is unreasonable to start seeing red flags when faced with a store that won't stand by their products with a reasonable return policy, particularly when it is for an unworn/barely worn ready made ring.

 

[pearaffair]

OP, I think this is going to turn out positively for you, one way or another. Congrats on your impending engagement! Also: how nice that you’re with a guy that felt misgings and shared his feelings with you! He could’ve just kept all this to himself but clearly you’re in a very open and communicative relationship. That is awesome! And it also doesn’t hurt that he spent $30k on a gift for you

You have options. You’re in the middle of stress right now but it will all get resolved one way or another. Also, don’t be sad about this being part of your engagement story. It’s just a testament to how during your life together, you two will weather the tough stuff and make it through to the other side. <3

 

[motownmama]

Nothing to add here, except to wish you the best in resolving your situation.

 

[Hephephippo]

I want to thank everyone who sent well wishes and offered positive thoughts to our situation. It helps put things into perspective rather than feel demolished as we go through a rough patch.

I also want to address the clarification requested here. Note that I was not with SO at the time of purchase and I apologize for any confusion resulting from my story-telling and combined stress. My SO and his friend went ring shopping together. His friend has a tax exemption certificate and wanted to gift SO and me with tax savings (for a lack of a better term). I don’t know much about this except that it is a personal exemption that can only be used by the exemptee on an in-person sale (can not be done on online purchases) and that any mode of payment can be used and purchases may be gifted. The only rule is the exemptee (who is pictured on the certificate) must be presenting the card and verified as the one pictured, by the cashier/sales person. In this case, his friend and SO were together and bought the ring using my SO’s credit card. While it is very sweet of SO’s friend to gift this to us, I realized from this thread that this may have an impact on the filing of taxes, or any other administrative matters surrounding diamonds – like insurance? – so I’ve advised SO to just settle that matter anyway since we both don’t know how to handle diamonds anyway. This thought is coming from a novice – although SO agreed to my suggestion, we still both need to understand the things we need to do after the dust has settled – including how diamonds need to be insured, or if they need to be filed with our taxes.

On the thought that this was all buyer’s remorse – completely false. When SO showed me the ring, I was mesmerized by how shimmery and splendid the rock is. We are novices and we go by how it looks. The rock is princess cut but when I look at it, it looks square-ish and modern. When you don’t know much, you are easy to please and the only concern at that point is that the setting was not to my taste – a very easy fix. When we looked into the ring more and discussed getting it re-set or changed, we then looked up the merchant online and that’s when all the red flags started coming in. So many people have voiced out negative experiences from the merchant and that’s when panic set in and our cause for concern that, as some have pointed out and I acknowledge as a possibility, we may be stressing over nothing. However that would be natural – if any of you went to a steak restaurant, ate with confidence, and later learned that this restaurant has a reputation for using fake meat, or sub-par meats, wouldn’t you be alarmed? This applies to anything in life. We were alarmed and worried.

There are at least two major types of guests in this forum – diamond enthusiasts who frequent this sub and are grown experts one way or another thus are active here, and diamond novices who know nothing but to scout the internet to learn, and are then drawn to the site to start asking questions. We fall into the second category and truth be told – you can all say “you should have known better” but 90% of the population won’t know anything about diamonds and rely on a known “Diamond District” for that. They won’t even know to search for forums or advice online. So to tell novices they are stupid is like trying to laugh at an obese person who is walking into a gym!!

On to reality, this forum has imparted some knowledge to us and we are thankful for this. For instance, it now seems SO severely overpaid for this ring. SO is scheduled to see an appraiser today and we will be able to validate the ring. From this forum, we also learned good questions to ask the appraiser – something we would not have known if I did not post a plea for help here. We are indebted to those who helped us, and wish our experience can help out others – so I will post an update on the outcome of this situation when that’s done.


Separate to all this, I wanted to say that while this experience is not a pleasant one, it did put things between SO and I into great perspective. SO has been extremely sweet during this time, in spite of our concerns and has assured me that I am getting the ring of my dreams. He will buy another one if he has to. Mind you, this can easily give us a fresh start however that’s not my concern. As his life partner now and forever, I want what is best for US not just a shiny bling. The thought that we (he) are potentially losing money from a bad ring is what concerns me the most – not owning and wearing a shiny ring. If SO gave me a $200 cubic zirconia – and he paid $201 for it – then I’d be happy and have no worries (and SO can just give me the $30k in cash for our wedding preps, honeymoon, etc!! – win!)

I admit that when I learned how SO purchased the ring and his trail of thought (or non-thought), I was dumbfounded and wondered if my SO is bright enough – I don’t mean to sound horrible, but imagine some day when we have kids and have to face bigger decisions, I don’t want to not be ‘wise’ about our decisions, and this one is a very big pricy mistake (if it is one). Then I caught myself in this thought and concluded that I love my SO, he needs my support, not criticism, and that I could have just as easily made a mistake with all good intention – he was excited to get a ring. And he already feels utterly foolish about this entire thing. Meanwhile, he wants to get me the best ring possible even if he is spending double – how ridiculously sweet is that?!?! I told SO I don’t want to spend double. The ring is a token of our commitment to each other but I know we already have that, token or not. However, the ring has brought some not so positive energy around it, so depending on the outcome of our situation, we may trade-in the ring as suggested here even if we lose some money because of its value. It may be a far smaller ring, but if it means starting fresh, then we think that’s better.

Finally, on the posts that say the merchant was just doing its job and SO was just stupid: I do not respect, condone, support or wish to encourage support on businesses that employ scrupulous tactics on unsuspecting consumers. Yes, every individual is responsible for being informed, however when a merchant can clearly tell someone is uninformed, vulnerable and they prey on those – that to me is just shady and would not recommending having such individuals in my personal life, or in transacting any sort of business. It’s a turn off and I commend hardworking honest businesses who make a profit, even if they cost more to customers, because their value proposition is transparency. I will repeat my business there – this is also the same idea as to why branded jewelers have a market – some people just don’t know any better and would rather know they pay a premium on a brand, knowing they are getting the brand guarantee (ex: DeBeers, VCA, Hearts on Fire) including servicing, cleaning, repairing the diamond for its lifetime, even if the diamond is not as valuable as a similar equivalent that has no branding.

That is my very long two cents because this has been truly a roller coaster experience.

 

[alamana]

If this ring is close to 2 cts, he very much overpaid. Here are some price comps. If we even allowed $5k for the settings (which likely were overpriced, too), he still overpaid.

Lowest price "excellent cut" 2 ct F VS2 at $17,830. And note that this 2.04 is 7.26 x 7.11mm!!!

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/2.04-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3679441

This is the highest priced one under 2.2 cts at 2.01 cts, $19,140 and is smaller at 6.90 x 6.68mm

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/2.01-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-324489

The one he bought is smaller than those. The 2-3 stones priced in between those two were all over 7mm. So I'd definitely return this one no matter what. I just hope you can contest it with the CC company based on not informing you of no return until after the sale had taken place. Thank goodness it was paid for with a credit card!

Overpaid? Well, yes, of course. But some context is necessary. Everyone here knows that one can get a much bigger/better quality diamond shopping online or through the best jewelers. So yes, he overpaid because he could have got something better for less. We all know this.

However, I feel that need to point out that what OP's boyfriend paid for this ring -- she said mid-twenties right? -- is right in line with what someone dumb enough to go to a mall store would pay. For example, Kay's website shows a 2ct princess cut ring for $27,000.

So yes, by all means OP should return the ring and start over if possible. That is very clear. But the seller wasn't outside of any normal bounds selling at that price.

 

[Hephephippo]

Just thought I'd throw on my 2c. There seems to be a lot of comment directed towards whether this is simply a case of not liking the ring as if it makes OP's anxiety less valid.
Given this is a high cost item that for many people would carry an immense amount of sentimental and symbolic value, I think she should absolutely do what she can to try to get a refund on a ring that seems to be the opposite of what she was looking for and that, by the sounds of it, was probably sold to her SO through high-pressure sales tactics. I think she should try as much as possible to have something shes truly happy with.

As much as it may be the case that the job of an SA is to pressure people into buying stuff, that doesn't mean it is a scrupulous thing to do when what you are relying on is the nativité of your customer to make the sale. And especially for an item that you would be well aware would carry significant sentimental value and would be a substantial financial commitment, and then to hide behind a hard no refunds policy when you would have known the purchase decision at the time was not a well informed one.

Sure a customer could have done his research first, etc etc, but would I have no sympathy for stores whose business model relies on people making stupid rash decisions. There are plenty of jewellers out there that do fantastic work and stand 100% behind everything they do. The unscrupulous players out there that take advantage of people's ignorance and rely on their customers making rash, emotionally driven decisions on something that is incredibly sentimental, just really make me angry.

Whether or not OP will have any recourse will likely depend on the goodwill of the store, whether the store misrepresented the item or whether there is any product fault, and there well may not be, but I don't think it is unreasonable to start seeing red flags when faced with a store that won't stand by their products with a reasonable return policy, particularly when it is for an unworn/barely worn ready made ring.

.

VERY WELL SAID and my thoughts exactly. The world we live in is driven by the very idea that what we do affects others. The reason poverty, suffering and abuse exist is because there are people who are more informed and knowledged who take advantage of those who are unsuspecting, ignorant, lesser educated and uninformed.

I don't want to support a business that preys on the vulnerability of others (that is almost tantamount to abuse of authority) -- and only want to support businesses that wish to develop and cultivate business relationships with their clients and have a value proposition of good business.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

I look forward to hearing a positive outcome! Goodness know diamond shopping can be stressful at the best of times--and it isn't fun when there is (a lot of) doubt surrounding a large purchase. So many of us have been there.

Positive vibes people!

cheers--Sharon

 

[marymm]

yeah, after reading through this whole post, I concur with the several others who said, your SO did not do his homework, you are panicking without any real cause, and, yes, most of the time you get what you pay for. Anyone who is going to drop any amount of money particularly on a luxury item who doesn't first inquire as to return policy is not being a savvy consumer, and that's too bad for you and your SO ... I do wish you luck with the appraisal appointment.

 

[Hephephippo]

yeah, after reading through this whole post, I concur with the several others who said, your SO did not do his homework, you are panicking without any real cause, and, yes, most of the time you get what you pay for. Anyone who is going to drop any amount of money particularly on a luxury item who doesn't first inquire as to return policy is not being a savvy consumer, and that's too bad for you and your SO ... I do wish you luck with the appraisal appointment.

Well thanks for your positive feedback and well wishes. I mean you stated the obvious and provided a solution. Read my post above.

 

[marymm]

^ Your thread is read by many many lurkers; my rational post was intended as an explicit caution to others reading your thread, as well as to you and your SO, when it comes to future purchases. I realize you are thin-skinned because you view this as a crisis, but your reflexive defensiveness works against you here.

 

[Hephephippo]

^ Your thread is read by many many lurkers; my rational post was intended as an explicit caution to others reading your thread, as well as to you and your SO, when it comes to future purchases. I realize you are thin-skinned because you view this as a crisis, but your reflexive defensiveness works against you here.

No need to pass blame or label others (thin-skinned?). 30K is not a laughing matter and even if it's just $300 -- it would be a cause of concern to me.

From one adult to another -- this world would be a better place if people communicated positively and openly -- that is how my SO and I are going through this and we are fine. If you put your words positively and caution others directly, it may be taken better, instead of labeling others and demeaning those who "made mistakes"

Nobody likes negative nancy and debbie downer

 

[whitewave]

Overpaid? Well, yes, of course. But some context is necessary. Everyone here knows that one can get a much bigger/better quality diamond shopping online or through the best jewelers. So yes, he overpaid because he could have got something better for less. We all know this.

However, I feel that need to point out that what OP's boyfriend paid for this ring -- she said mid-twenties right? -- is right in line with what someone dumb enough to go to a mall store would pay. For example, Kay's website shows a 2ct princess cut ring for $27,000.

So yes, by all means OP should return the ring and start over if possible. That is very clear. But the seller wasn't outside of any normal bounds selling at that price.

You give a LOT of credit to the motivations of the seller, which truly are unknown.

The diamond district has a reputation of taking advantage of novice people, which is why we here at PS have recommended vendors there.

 

[ChristineRose]

There is no such thing as a new stone. New stones are a billion years old; old stones are 3 billion.

As for being pre-owned, about 40% of all stones are pre-owned. The percentage varies a lot depending on cut, origin, etc. There's a limited number of sources (mines) for diamonds; everything eventually goes into one of the pipes that branch out to the individual stores. This is a large part of why it's so hard to resell a diamond.

If the cert is six years old, it's possible the stone was sold and returned/exchanged, or it's possible it just sat in a vault for a while. It happens. There's no reason to re-cert unless the stone was chipped or whatever. If the stone was chipped, then the cert is invalid and you can get your money back. The appraiser will tell you this, but I think it's unlikely that any store would try to sell a $30,000 stone with a cert they knew would be called out by an appraiser.

 

[metall]

I was just checking in to see if your SO has gone to the appraiser yet and it you've gotten any news.