dont understand

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/7/2009 6:29:32 AM
Author: diamondbank


jewelers do your customers come to you with a loupe and more importantly do you state where the black spot is on a vs2. Do you say to them that its on the middle, on the side or even better 'on the side but we have covered it using the metal that surrounds the stone'

Yes I take into consideration inclusions in a vs2 all the time when recommending diamonds.
So does the trade, a well cut solid vs2 round will be sent to the harsher grading labs so the diamond trades for more money, the borderline and just under stones may be sent to the softer labs so it moves faster but for less money.

Consumers need to be careful what the wish for speculation trading in diamonds is not good for consumers at all.
Since the id 10 ts have messed up the natural gas market with senseless speculation by people who don't have a clue it has cost consumers billions over what was once a stable market.

The best thing that can happen for consumers in the diamond market is not speculation trading but the building of a healthy secondary market rather than the BS that exists today because of DeBeers.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 2/7/2009 6:09:18 AM
Author: diamondbank

I challenge anybody to state a better case as two why small certified plished diamonds are not traded like any other commodity.

1) Because diamonds aren’t a commodity.

The key requirement for ANY commodity is that all of the attributes be fungible. That is to say that every ounce of gold or AAA 2x4 is identical to and exchangeable with every other ounce. This is not the case with diamonds. Although labs will give their opinions as to some of the attributes of each stone, there is no guarantees, the scales used are quite flexible and staggeringly inconsistent and there is a substantial amount of information that relates to the pricing that isn’t on the grading reports.

2) Because the exchange you are hoping to buy in doesn’t exist any more than there is an exchange where you can buy USDA ‘certified’ beef in lieu of shopping at your local grocer or at your favorite restaurant, both of which charge what seems like outrageous prices when compared to what the rancher got when he/she sold it. Markets matter and a commodities exchange is a very different animal from a consumer or even dealer marketplace. You would run into the same problem if you wanted to buy a sheet of plywood or a few pounds of soybeans, both of which ARE commodities. You would find that, in the case of the plywood, you’re likely to end up at the local home depot despite their apparently higher prices and if you had a sheet that you wanted to sell you would find it spectacularly difficult unless you offered it up at a steep discount. Soybeans or grade A beef would be even worse. For most people, the place to buy these things would be the grocery store and there is no resale opportunity at all.

Date: 2/7/2009 6:29:32 AM
Author: diamondbank

The only added value there is is the sellers brand and everything it stands for.

3) To some extent this is correct but you are summarily dismissing it as irrelevant. Jewelers bring in the same sorts of value that restaurants, clothing retailers, grocers and pretty much any other merchant brings. Some do a better job of it than others and they do not all charge the same for their efforts. Whether you find this to be worth the cost or whether they are doing it skillfully or not will vary from situation to situation but to summarily dismiss it as irrelevant is completely missing the point.


There are plenty of securitized opportunities to speculate on the diamond market if you’re inclined to do so and one has been pointed out above. You can, of course, also simply buy the stock of the mining companies, cutters, retailers or others involved in the trade.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

See the 4ct+ line?
That is what happens when there is speculation in the diamond market.
Adding more is not a good thing....

 

[diamondbank]

Wink what your opinion on this


The economic crisis and subsequent fall in the sales of diamonds has resulted in the coming together of leading diamond producers - Alrosa, De Beers, Harry Winston, BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto - to launch joint campaigns to boost the demand of the precious stone.

According to Israel Diamond Portal the major diamond producers who together control over 90% of the global diamond market, are planning a joint marketing campaign to project diamonds as an investment option.

According to Lynette Gould, spokesperson for De Beers, the diamond producing companies plan to set up an SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle) SteerCom, to implement a common market strategy. Management consultants McKinsey & Co are reportedly working on the financial planning which will involve all of the production chain''s links from diamond miners to cutters and jewellers.


http://www.jckindia.com/Diamond/News/Top_diamond_producers_join_hands/2/2/1/3093.aspx

 

[diamondbank]

Date: 2/7/2009 10:34:38 AM
Author: strmrdr
See the 4ct+ line?

That is what happens when there is speculation in the diamond market.

Adding more is not a good thing....

Could be a good buying opportunity. Prices go up and prices go down thats the same for every product. Why are diamonds so different

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/7/2009 10:42:35 AM
Author: diamondbank
Wink what your opinion on this



The economic crisis and subsequent fall in the sales of diamonds has resulted in the coming together of leading diamond producers - Alrosa, De Beers, Harry Winston, BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto - to launch joint campaigns to boost the demand of the precious stone.


According to Israel Diamond Portal the major diamond producers who together control over 90% of the global diamond market, are planning a joint marketing campaign to project diamonds as an investment option.


According to Lynette Gould, spokesperson for De Beers, the diamond producing companies plan to set up an SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle) SteerCom, to implement a common market strategy. Management consultants McKinsey & Co are reportedly working on the financial planning which will involve all of the production chain''s links from diamond miners to cutters and jewellers.



http://www.jckindia.com/Diamond/News/Top_diamond_producers_join_hands/2/2/1/3093.aspx

Sounds like grounds for an anti-trust lawsuit in the UE and the US.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/7/2009 10:49:11 AM
Author: diamondbank

Date: 2/7/2009 10:34:38 AM

Author: strmrdr

See the 4ct+ line?


That is what happens when there is speculation in the diamond market.


Adding more is not a good thing....

Could be a good buying opportunity. Prices go up and prices go down thats the same for every product. Why are diamonds so different

unstable markets are never good for consumers.

 

[John P]

Date: 2/6/2009 6:58:15 PM
Author: suchende

John, you mention that mark-up on diamonds is not that high, yet consumers seem to have to sell diamonds for far less than they paid (even before the economy really started to take a turn for the worse). Why is it so hard to sell a diamond that's 'used'? Why aren't jewelers/brokers/whoever willing to buy stones from consumers for prices closer to what they paid?

Sorry for not replying sooner Suchende, after my last post I was out the door to my hockey habit (Stars win 10-2! What a game!).

Wink gave good insight. Adding to that, let's suppose a jeweler was considering buying-back diamonds at what his clients paid. Here are the disadvantages.

1. He will have to pay you on the spot, whereas his suppliers allow him to stock diamonds "on memo" (unpaid until sold) and give flexible terms of payment.
2. He will be married to that specific diamond bought from you, whereas his suppliers allow switching-out of memo goods
3. A responsible dealer will have any diamond that has been out in the public inspected and re-graded by the lab on his time and his dime, including shipping/insurance both ways, whereas supplier diamonds typically come with fresh grading reports
4. His electric bill, payroll, advertising, security, insurance, rent and other operating costs are built into the original sale. Building them in again on each buy-back will require higher and higher markups if he pays dollar-for-dollar, eventually pricing him out of the ability to sell the diamond.
5. This is not as applicable to dealers of diamonds with top grading reports and top cut - but dealers dishing commercial goods (soft reports and avg cut) where margins are currently more inflated probably don't want them back as the public becomes more aware of strict grading and cut quality.

As Wink said, there are places offering trade-up and buy-back policies for their clients. You may have noticed dealers offering lifetime trade-up programs (100% credit towards a new purchase). That is probably the best shake at "getting back what you paid." It's beneficial for the consumer, since you'll rarely be able to sell a diamond straight-out for more than 3/4 of what you paid, and beneficial for the dealer as long as pricing holds, since they make a sale in the process. The dealers offering this are counting on what they sell standing the test of time and scrutiny and holding value, or increasing in it.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/7/2009 10:53:20 AM
Author: John Pollard
The dealers offering this are counting on what they sell standing the test of time and scrutiny and holding value, or increasing in it.

And that very few people would take advantage of it.
A few PSers being the exception.
Where a 100% cash back policy would be much more likely to be used.

 

[suchende]

Thanks for the responses! I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out why jewelers don''t snap up what seem to be absolute steals on the secondary market, but of course your explanation makes sense, John.

 

[John P]

DiamondBank,

I realize you may have overlooked or ignored my first post. That''s cool, but I would like to know whether you understand and acknowledge the implications of the highlighted. I ask honestly as there are many people who do not. It''s somewhat fundamental to your question.

Date: 2/6/2009 6:51:54 PM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 2/6/2009 5:57:58 PM
Author:diamondbank
I am precious metals trader looking to invest in diamonds. In these times of uncertainty i really like the diamond play. Can some of you experts answer me a few questions.

All very logical questions.

1) Where can i buy a diamond and sell back the next second for the same price?

You can’t. I don’t agree that there are huge markups on diamonds: Upstream prices continued to rise while margins downstream have shrunk tremendously - with the advent of the internet especially. But it’s unrealistic to expect to sell a diamond for what you paid, as long as diamond retailers can still buy them for less than what you paid. Here is a thorough article on the realities people face when reselling diamonds.

2) Why is there no centralized market place to buy and sell ie trade certified diamonds electronically, like gold or stocks?

Rapaport tried an auction. It didn’t take. Discussion here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rappaport-to-start-online-diamond-auction.68185/

3) Why is their no real pricing mechanism in the industry, As a trader i would like to know my profit and loss in real time.

The best pricing mechanism we have is reality. The Pricescope search engine is a very “real” way of seeing a snapshot of low-end consumer pricing at a given moment.

4) Why is 1 carat gvs2 gia nil triple x not worth the same as another 1 carat gvs2 gia nil triple x. Surely the value is in the certificate

Let’t try it this way:

1ct GVS2 triple ex
57 41.6 35.0 80 50

1ct GVS2 triple ex
60 41.4 32.0 80 50

1ct GVS2 triple ex
58 40.4 34.0 80 50

1ct GVS2 triple ex
56 40.8 34.5 80 50

There is a significant difference in value between the four examples above, even on their face. Now factor in:

* Cut consistency - even pristine averages can have swings in angles, causing performance issues
* Cut precision - cutting with precise optical symmetry brings a premium in some markets
* Actual measurements - averages on reports are rounded

And we did not even begin to address differences in clarity here, or face-up color influenced by cut quality.

Surely verification is guaranteed by the Grading Labs

GIA is certainly considered an authority, but even they don''t make guarantees. See bottom right ''This report is not a guarantee...''

http://lgdl.gia.edu/pdfs/diamond_grading_with_cut2.pdf

 

[John P]

Date: 2/7/2009 10:58:47 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/7/2009 10:53:20 AM
Author: John Pollard
The dealers offering this are counting on what they sell standing the test of time and scrutiny and holding value, or increasing in it.

And that very few people would take advantage of it.
A few PSers being the exception.
Where a 100% cash back policy would be much more likely to be used.

Heck yes. I''d use it (if it were not impractical for the reasons described).

Diamond one day. Plasma TV the next. Oh wait, I can''t 100% cash-back my plasma. Hmmm. Ok. Diamond one day. Brick of gold the next. Meh. Brick of gold not nearly as cool as diamond... Give me the diamond back.

 

[John P]

Date: 2/7/2009 10:59:49 AM
Author: suchende

Thanks for the responses! I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out why jewelers don''t snap up what seem to be absolute steals on the secondary market, but of course your explanation makes sense, John.

Thanks suchende. Prior to being in the trade I''d kick the same question about diamonds, rubies, etc. around with buddies over beverages. It''s not uncommon to wonder.

 

[diamondbank]

Date: 2/7/2009 10:53:20 AM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 2/6/2009 6:58:15 PM

Author: suchende


1. He will have to pay you on the spot, whereas his suppliers allow him to stock diamonds ''on memo'' (unpaid until sold) and give flexible terms of payment.

The memo business is killing the manufacturer and in turn the business, why should he give you terms when he is paying cash for the rough.

Diamonds is mostly a cash business, why should it be so different for the retailer. Do you the retailer have terms on paying the rent ie i will pay you the rent as long as i sell something. When something is exchanged no matter what third party lending instrument is the retailer is getting in most parts his cashh. Seems a bit unfair on the guy your taking memo from no.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/7/2009 11:14:47 AM
Author: diamondbank

Date: 2/7/2009 10:53:20 AM

Author: John Pollard

Date: 2/6/2009 6:58:15 PM


Author: suchende



1. He will have to pay you on the spot, whereas his suppliers allow him to stock diamonds 'on memo' (unpaid until sold) and give flexible terms of payment.


The memo business is killing the manufacturer and in turn the business, why should he give you terms when he is paying cash for the rough.


Diamonds is mostly a cash business, why should it be so different for the retailer. Do you the retailer have terms on paying the rent ie i will pay you the rent as long as i sell something. When something is exchanged no matter what third party lending instrument is the retailer is getting in most parts his cashh. Seems a bit unfair on the guy your taking memo from no.

No diamonds on the dealer level hasn't been a cash business in a long long time, memo has been the standard for decades.
Buying off lists with net 14-30 with return has started to replace memo.

 

[diamondbank]

John i take your points and thank you for all your comments.But as a trader you are not taking mine. I will do my best sir to be more clear.

Rapapaport auction is an ebay mechanism so in that case its just a retailer advertising prices with a reserve. What i was referring to was a real auction like currencies,stocks ect

To the consumer the certificate is the standard, certificates can be categorized they are already. Therefore a 0.32 GVS2 GIA XXX none should have the same "price per carat" as 0.33 GVS2 GIA XXX NONE.

 

[John P]

Date: 2/7/2009 11:14:47 AM
Author: diamondbank

The memo business is killing the manufacturer and in turn the business, why should he give you terms when he is paying cash for the rough.

Diamonds is mostly a cash business, why should it be so different for the retailer. Do you the retailer have terms on paying the rent ie i will pay you the rent as long as i sell something. When something is exchanged no matter what third party lending instrument is the retailer is getting in most parts his cashh. Seems a bit unfair on the guy your taking memo from no.

I am not in retail. My company is based in Antwerp; we buy rough and cut diamonds. It''s a cash business for us but we are far upstream.

Strmrdr is correct. The retail sector is dependent on memo. It''s standard practice. We extend it to the retailers whom we allow to sell our diamonds (we also provide terms for outright purchase).

Personally I think credit/memo is a huge problem that has brought the industry to its knees in some ways, but that''s a whole ''nother topic.

 

[diamondbank]

This attach i found on the web. Its a pp presentation given by Lamon Rutten Joint Managing Director of MCX India’s No. 1 commodity exchange.

Makes interesting points.

www.capital.bw/resources/docs/Botswana%20Resources%20conference.ppt -

www.capital.bw/resources/docs/Botswana%20Resources%20conference.ppt -

 

[John P]

Date: 2/7/2009 11:25:12 AM
Author: diamondbank
John i take your points and thank you for all your comments.But as a trader you are not taking mine. I will do my best sir to be more clear.

Rapapaport auction is an ebay mechanism so in that case its just a retailer advertising prices with a reserve. What i was referring to was a real auction like currencies,stocks ect

To the consumer the certificate is the standard, certificates can be categorized they are already. Therefore a 0.32 GVS2 GIA XXX none should have the same ''price per carat'' as 0.33 GVS2 GIA XXX NONE.

Thanks DB.

By way of reply, let''s imagine a consumer in a store. The dealer carries two 1.00 GVS2 GIA XXX NONE in his showroom. If one looks notably more attractive than the other, the consumer will not be willing to pay the same price for them. Do you agree?

 

[diamondbank]

If it was noticeably different then why would it get the same grade cut make polish.Thats what i dont understand. The cut is X the polish is X and the symmetry is x. Dont understand how they could be different.

 

[John P]

Date: 2/7/2009 11:46:51 AM
Author: diamondbank

If it was noticeably different then why would it get the same grade cut make polish.Thats what i dont understand. The cut is X the polish is X and the symmetry is x. Dont understand how they could be different.

Exactly. It's what I am trying to explain. GIA's cut grade (released in 2006) allows variations in performance that are eye-visible.

That's why I included the numbers in my first post - they were geometric configurations resulting in four different 'looks' (all GIA EX), one of which is far less desirable than the others...and three of which appeal to consumers differently, depending on personal taste. Apologies for not explaining the measurements before. Many here speak that 'language.'

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/7/2009 10:42:35 AM
Author: diamondbank
Wink what your opinion on this


The economic crisis and subsequent fall in the sales of diamonds has resulted in the coming together of leading diamond producers - Alrosa, De Beers, Harry Winston, BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto - to launch joint campaigns to boost the demand of the precious stone.

That would be a very good thing. It is as DeBeers has done for a long time with wonderful results for all concerned as far as making it possible to sell diamonds.

According to Israel Diamond Portal the major diamond producers who together control over 90% of the global diamond market, are planning a joint marketing campaign to project diamonds as an investment option.

If they are successful in creating an investment option then I will be glad to retire and just play with my grandkids. If you successfully remove the jeweler from the equation you will have destroyed the market. Good luck with that.

According to Lynette Gould, spokesperson for De Beers, the diamond producing companies plan to set up an SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle) SteerCom, to implement a common market strategy. Management consultants McKinsey & Co are reportedly working on the financial planning which will involve all of the production chain''s links from diamond miners to cutters and jewellers.

Again this is in complete agreement with your first paragraph, which is also diametrically opposed to your second paragraph. You can not and will not ever have diamonds as a fungible asset and as a saleable retail commodity without removing the jeweler from the equation. To think otherwise is a collosal misunderstanding of why the retail public is buying diamonds. It has failed many times before, it will gladly fail again.

Wink


http://www.jckindia.com/Diamond/News/Top_diamond_producers_join_hands/2/2/1/3093.aspx

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/7/2009 10:49:44 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/7/2009 10:42:35 AM
Author: diamondbank
Wink what your opinion on this



The economic crisis and subsequent fall in the sales of diamonds has resulted in the coming together of leading diamond producers - Alrosa, De Beers, Harry Winston, BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto - to launch joint campaigns to boost the demand of the precious stone.


According to Israel Diamond Portal the major diamond producers who together control over 90% of the global diamond market, are planning a joint marketing campaign to project diamonds as an investment option.


According to Lynette Gould, spokesperson for De Beers, the diamond producing companies plan to set up an SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle) SteerCom, to implement a common market strategy. Management consultants McKinsey & Co are reportedly working on the financial planning which will involve all of the production chain''s links from diamond miners to cutters and jewellers.



http://www.jckindia.com/Diamond/News/Top_diamond_producers_join_hands/2/2/1/3093.aspx

Sounds like grounds for an anti-trust lawsuit in the UE and the US.

Hmmm, I wonder why that is so many people are reporting that DeBeers withdrew from their proposed settlement?

Wink

 

[diamondbank]

Date: 2/6/2009 6:51:54 PM

Author: wink


1) Where can i buy a diamond and sell back the next second for the same price?


You can’t. I don’t agree that there are huge markups on diamonds: Upstream prices continued to rise while margins downstream have shrunk tremendously - with the advent of the internet especially. But it’s unrealistic to expect to sell a diamond for what you paid, as long as diamond retailers can still buy them for less than what you paid. Here is a thorough article on the realities people face when reselling diamonds.




I read the article wink and thank you for your feedback, It seems frustrating for the consumer to resell his diamonds. Why should the consumer not be able to send his diamonds for certification and have a centralized marketplace where he can sell it for maybe not at the same price that he bought it for but at the best price the market as a whole is willing to pay for it at that moment in time.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/7/2009 10:58:47 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/7/2009 10:53:20 AM
Author: John Pollard
The dealers offering this are counting on what they sell standing the test of time and scrutiny and holding value, or increasing in it.

And that very few people would take advantage of it.
A few PSers being the exception.
Where a 100% cash back policy would be much more likely to be used.

True, but only until the policy put the vendor out of business as it did in Japan. I shudder to think what that would do to me today if everyone I had ever sold a diamond to when times were good came demanding their money back. The first few would get it, the rest would get to see my shuttered doors and whine that I betrayed them. Since I already know I could never do it I do not offer it and hope that it will never happen. I only offer the 80% buy back that I do because I have the support of my supplier, and I only offer it on his diamonds.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/7/2009 11:14:47 AM
Author: diamondbank

Date: 2/7/2009 10:53:20 AM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 2/6/2009 6:58:15 PM

Author: suchende


1. He will have to pay you on the spot, whereas his suppliers allow him to stock diamonds ''on memo'' (unpaid until sold) and give flexible terms of payment.

The memo business is killing the manufacturer and in turn the business, why should he give you terms when he is paying cash for the rough.

Diamonds is mostly a cash business, why should it be so different for the retailer. Do you the retailer have terms on paying the rent ie i will pay you the rent as long as i sell something. When something is exchanged no matter what third party lending instrument is the retailer is getting in most parts his cashh. Seems a bit unfair on the guy your taking memo from no.

I highlighted your portion so it would be clear that it is yours.

We retailers take memo because the wholesalers and cutters offer it. You have to move large quantities of diamonds every month, many times what most of us have to move in a year. You need the diamonds out of your office and we may only need what you have if we have a call for it and you send it to us to show our client. You shot yourselves in the foot when you started offering long term memos to us, and we would have to be insane not to accept them.

Show me a vendor selling only for cash to the retailers and I will show you a vendor not selling very much. It is your system, you started it, and you have to live with the monster you created in your desparation to sell large quantities of diamonds.

Wink

 

[diamondbank]

Posted by Wink

According to Israel Diamond Portal the major diamond producers who together control over 90% of the global diamond market, are planning a joint marketing campaign to project diamonds as an investment option.

If they are successful in creating an investment option then I will be glad to retire and just play with my grandkids. If you successfully remove the jeweler from the equation you will have destroyed the market. Good luck with that.

Response diamond bank:

Why would it remove the jeweler from the equations thats just not true. Who''s gonna make the rings who''s people still want to go to the shops.An exchange can offer a trading mechanism giving an entry and exit point to a user be it a private manufacturer retailer or just a simple investor. That will never replace the jeweler. For the same reasons that Blue Nile did not ruined the jeweler it just made them more accessible which in the long run is better. Do you not agree wink?

 

[diamondbank]

I agree memo business is slowly dying the manufacturer cant handle it especially in these times.

What i meant was that you the retailer is getting cash for your sell, but the manufacturer is not.

By the way i am not DODAQ im just a precious metals trader who trades diamonds also. But if it makes you happy then you can call me DODAQ. I will however be participating in their markets makes sense i can find the real value of what i buying as a raw material. The brand the ring comes later. maybe il even come to you for the setting. LOL

 

[John P]

Date: 2/7/2009 12:23:19 PM
Author: diamondbank

Date: 2/7/2009 11:37:23 AM
Author: John Pollard

I am not in retail. My company is based in Antwerp; we buy rough and cut diamonds. It's a cash business for us but we are far upstream.

Strmrdr is correct. The retail sector is dependent on memo. It's standard practice. We extend it to the retailers whom we allow to sell our diamonds (we also provide terms for outright purchase).

Personally I think credit/memo is a huge problem that has brought the industry to its knees in some ways, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

I agree memo business is slowly dying the manufacturer cant handle it especially in these times.

What i meant was that you the retailer is getting cash for your sell, but the manufacturer is not.

By the way i am not DODAQ im just a precious metals trader who trades diamonds also. But if it makes you happy then you can call me DODAQ. I will however be participating in their markets makes sense i can find the real value of what i buying as a raw material. The brand the ring comes later. maybe il even come to you for the setting. LOL

(I copied my earlier quote above for purposes of tracking the conversation)

As I said, I am not in retail DB. You're correct about debt in the biz.
I understand what you're saying and I am interested in your reaction to the below...

Date: 2/7/2009 11:53:08 AM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 2/7/2009 11:46:51 AM
Author: diamondbank

If it was noticeably different then why would it get the same grade cut make polish.Thats what i dont understand. The cut is X the polish is X and the symmetry is x. Dont understand how they could be different.

Exactly. It's what I am trying to explain. GIA's cut grade (released in 2006) allows variations in performance that are eye-visible.

That's why I included the numbers in my first post - they were geometric configurations resulting in four different 'looks' (all GIA EX), one of which is far less desirable than the others...and three of which appeal to consumers differently, depending on personal taste. Apologies for not explaining the measurements before. Many here speak that 'language.'

Understanding this, do you see how diamonds with identical reports can be priced differently?

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/7/2009 12:01:02 PM
Author: diamondbank
Date: 2/6/2009 6:51:54 PM

Author: wink


1) Where can i buy a diamond and sell back the next second for the same price?


You can’t. I don’t agree that there are huge markups on diamonds: Upstream prices continued to rise while margins downstream have shrunk tremendously - with the advent of the internet especially. But it’s unrealistic to expect to sell a diamond for what you paid, as long as diamond retailers can still buy them for less than what you paid. Here is a thorough article on the realities people face when reselling diamonds.




I read the article wink and thank you for your feedback, It seems frustrating for the consumer to resell his diamonds. Why should the consumer not be able to send his diamonds for certification and have a centralized marketplace where he can sell it for maybe not at the same price that he bought it for but at the best price the market as a whole is willing to pay for it at that moment in time.

Interesting to me that you take my response to comments that John made, leave my name at the top and John''s comments in the body and respond to me as if I made the post.

If the consumer were to spend the money to have his stone certified and send it to me I would still send it to be verified as I have no way of knowing what the consumer might have done to the diamond in the interim, no matter how short. The consumer can not do as you suggest because he is the consumer and has no standing in the industry and is not someone that the industry can come back on if he has dealt in bad faith.

I, on the other hand, have a retail location and can not escape into the woodwork should my gem not be as purported. I can thus claim and receive a higher price and still I have no easy outlet for my excess inventory if I do not also wish to take a beating, EXCEPT WHEN DEALING WITH A CUTTER WITH WHOM I HAVE ESTABLISHED A STRONG RELATIONSHIP WITH!

You are asking for consumers to be granted privileges that even the retailers do not have. Sorry Charlie, it does not fly and YOU KNOW THIS ALREADY!

Wink