shape
carat
color
clarity

dont understand

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diamondbank

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John my feeling like yours is that its a matter of taste and as we know tastes are different. But at base as a commodity and within strict standardized categories of certified diamonds. The trading price should be unilateral within those categories and be traded for cash at least for the trade and the investor/private who could add much needed liquidity to the market. The retailer/jeweler he should use the cash market to source to take advantage of cutting out his cost to purchase of the raw material by making sure that he gets the best price available for his demand. He can then add the added value that he is offering to his customer.
 

diamondbank

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Wink if i may,i dont ubderstand why the consumer should not be allowed to send his diamonds for recertification or why you dont send his diamond for re certification and then sell it for him on the exchange and charge him for that service, would that be so bad. And if the money he buys a new stone maybe a bigger stone through you and then you charge for giving him your brand. theres money there and customer satisfaction.

Apoligies for erro i tried to correct it.
 

WinkHPD

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Date: 2/7/2009 12:13:13 PM
Author: diamondbank

Posted by Wink

According to Israel Diamond Portal the major diamond producers who together control over 90% of the global diamond market, are planning a joint marketing campaign to project diamonds as an investment option.

If they are successful in creating an investment option then I will be glad to retire and just play with my grandkids. If you successfully remove the jeweler from the equation you will have destroyed the market. Good luck with that.

Response diamond bank:

Why would it remove the jeweler from the equations thats just not true. Who''s gonna make the rings who''s people still want to go to the shops.An exchange can offer a trading mechanism giving an entry and exit point to a user be it a private manufacturer retailer or just a simple investor. That will never replace the jeweler. For the same reasons that Blue Nile did not ruined the jeweler it just made them more accessible which in the long run is better. Do you not agree wink?

I posted only the portion in red. If you are going to quote me, then quote ME and please quite quoting me out of context, it is rude and it is misleading.

As for your comment about selling the diamonds elsewhere not ruining the jeweler you are pretending to be completely naive about the reality that we must sell huge numbers to afford to stay in business. We have one of the highest costs per square foot of any retail business due to insurance, needing highly trained sales assistants, and the cost of putting product in our cases being extrememly high. Picking up a mounting now and then to house your diamond will not work for us unless we are also selling a large number of diamonds. You of course already know this and choose to ignore it or pretend that you are confused when you came to lead the poor lambs to slaughter with comments like,

Date: 2/6/2009 8:53:55 PM
Author: diamondbank
Im getting itchy fingers, i could set the price of diamonds here.This is heavy.I could put bids in @ minus 55 see if theres any sellers. Why not?


Heck, I can already buy more IGI diamonds than I can possibly affort at minus 55. So can any dealer here. The only problem is that in order to sell them I would have to become just another lie telling salesman who did not care about his craft. If the comment made in this thread are accurate that this "wonderful" new thing relies only on GI, HRD and IGI papers are accurate then I already know they are vending hot air. A diamond with an IGI paper is not even close to fungible with a diamond with a GIA paper. And has already been stated, diamonds with GIA excellent grades on them are not fungible with each other but at least I have a reasonable expectation of them being accurately graded while I have total expectation that IGI diamonds will be poorly graded.

You will find that the consumers here are not sheep to be led by you or any other to slaughter over being able to somehow get diamonds at the floor price with the expectation of selling them for a profit. The shepard in me smells the wolf in you and I am not impressed with you telling us last night that you are looking for such a place, then telling us that you are not a dealer, but that you are already trading. Personally I think you are trying to take advantage of this forum and I think that the consumers here are MUCH smarter than you give them credit for.

Bad luck to you and your efforts to bring further discredit to our wonderful industry than have the other investment scammers over the years.

Wink
 

diamondbank

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Your comment on insurance is correct thats because you are forced to hold so much stock for whatever valid reason that may be. And thats the very reason why you should have access to a cash market to source the diamonds you need and hold in a portfolio with access to it within 24 hours. It would bring down your costs.

Regarding Labs as i mentioned before gia should have one price and igi should another price ie two different exchanges/market/prices. How that price is traded is based on supply and demand and other opinions like yours. Price is just your opinion. opinions is what makes pricescope work. The more opinions ou have the more fair that price is to you, the consumer ect ect
Consumers can make their informed decisions through research and logic. Not by just what we say, keep discussing its better.

My apologies again for the lack of forum etiquette as it may appear at first hand, im still learning how to use this forum properly. For now i will stick to answering/posting like this, until i get to grip with the reply set up. BK
 

diamondseeker2006

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Yeah, I think I''ll stick with Wink''s 80% buy-Back, Good Old Gold''s 75%, and WhiteFlash''s 70%. Top quality stones with the insurance of being able to trade-up or sell without losing your shirt is really appealing. You don''t get that any other way.
 

diamondbank

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Wink IGI are sold all over the world i beleive they are the second biggest certificate house in the world. there grading is respected throughout the world. I dont disagree that GIA cert hold a premium for whatever valid reasons they may be.As i said Theres a price for IGI and theres a price for GIA. And @ -55 sealed IGI i would consider buying your stock if you would sell. It would have to be a good assortment though. LOL
 

diamondbank

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Wink a question whats the difference between your ONLINE shop and there electronic diamond exchange. Interested in your reply.
 

John P

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Date: 2/7/2009 3:09:45 PM
Author: diamondbank

Wink here is the breakdown for grading labs hope you find interesting.

Grading Labs Breakdowns


Top 3

GIA 64.8%
EGL USA 4.9%
IGI 2.9%
I am pretty sure that IGI statistic reflects loose diamond grading only (for which they have a great reputation).

Their grading of finished jewelry and the accompanying "appraisal-reports" commonly seen in commercial US markets (malls, department store jewelry counters, etc) does not enjoy the reputability of, for example, IGI Hong Kong - where the loose diamond grading is considered on-par with GIA.
 

Serg

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Date: 2/6/2009 5:57:58 PM
Author:diamondbank
I am precious metals trader looking to invest in diamonds. In these times of uncertainty i really like the diamond play. Can some of you experts answer me a few questions.

1) Where can i buy a diamond and sell back the next second for the same price?

2) Why is there no centralized market place to buy and sell ie trade certified diamonds electronically, like gold or stocks?

3) Why is their no real pricing mechanism in the industry, As a trader i would like to know my profit and loss in real time.

4) Why is 1 carat gvs2 gia nil triple x not worth the same as another 1 carat gvs2 gia nil triple x. Surely the value is in the certificate

I am fascinated by this industry and just frustrated that i cant find an investment angle on something that i believe is really worth something.

Any advice/comments would be appreciated

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Re:I am precious metals trader looking to invest in diamonds. In these times of uncertainty i really like the diamond play. Can some of you experts answer me a few questions.

Gold is commodity , gold jewelry is not commodity at all.

Could you imagine stock market for gold jewelry?

Polished diamonds are more close to gold jewelry than to gold bullion.


I hope polished diamonds will more far from gold bullion than now.
More and more persons try create stock market for polished diamonds in last 5 years.
On first point view it could solve some problem with liquidity for professionals( Btw price of gold on stock market is not same what price of gold for end consumer in Banks),
but most probably it will kill diamond market at all.

jewelry does not create main demand for gold . ( electronic industry is very important for example)

Diamond has not demands from other markets more( just jewelry) .It is reason :
1)why mining companies control profit in cutting industry
2) why stock market is so danger for Diamond market

 

John P

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Date: 2/7/2009 1:46:34 PM
Author: diamondbank
John my feeling like yours is that its a matter of taste and as we know tastes are different. But at base as a commodity and within strict standardized categories of certified diamonds. The trading price should be unilateral within those categories and be traded for cash at least for the trade and the investor/private who could add much needed liquidity to the market. The retailer/jeweler he should use the cash market to source to take advantage of cutting out his cost to purchase of the raw material by making sure that he gets the best price available for his demand. He can then add the added value that he is offering to his customer.
In the categories of color & clarity, consider diamonds called in from suppliers that get sent back for "non-eye-clean" (SI clarity) "durability" (feather, chip, etc), "low color" (J that shows too much tint), "lucky cert" (VS that should have been SI), etc. Can these be priced unilaterally with diamonds of the same category that will not get sent back?

That doesn't even touch on the category of cut quality, which is a strong area of focus around here. How can a trading price be unilateral on two GIA EX diamonds (both 1ct GVS2 xxx Nil) when a consumer looks at one and loves it, but looks at the other and does not?
 

tradergirl

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I don''t understand why you want to do this anyway. There supposedly is a market coming but it will be illiquid as hell. Why don''t you trade corn or something.
 

diamondbank

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Gold bullion is Gold bullion with a stand alone price examples of this see
Gold market


Gold jewelery is gold jewelery, price is including (Gold + production + brand)



Polished Diamonds are polished diamonds with a stand alone price

Polished Diamond jewelery are diamond prices including (Diamond+ setting+ brand)



I would not worry about the dangers of a stock market for diamonds it could only help as it has for other precious metals industries. History tells us diamonds are a good investment thats one of the reasons people buy them and will continue buying them.

Anyone has any thoughts on this article


HNIs shun equities for diamondsHNIs shun equites for diamonds
 

strmrdr

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Date: 2/7/2009 4:04:02 PM
Author: diamondbank



Gold bullion is Gold bullion with a stand alone price examples of this see

Gold market



Gold jewelery is gold jewelery, price is including (Gold + production + brand)
Resale value on a setting at 10 years is a percentage of scrap gold price.
 

diamondbank

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Trade girl the liquidity will come from the industry there enough liquidity in small diamonds to make a potentially huge spot market. I of course recognize that this dodaq thing is new but they seem to be the only ones offering the industry a real option/solution annd from a trading perspective would be a great market to trade.

As traders you know we will trade anything as long as their is a real market with a robust pricing mechanism behind it, like commodities or stocks.Entry and exit point.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 2/7/2009 4:04:02 PM
Author: diamondbank


Anyone has any thoughts on this article



HNIs shun equities for diamondsHNIs shun equites for diamonds
They will lose their shirts on the upswing sales.
You know you keep on posting links about people who are going to do this and that or say do this and that.
Where are the links to people that actually made money on investing in diamonds?
You would think that investors would have learned a lesson about basing investments on goods with artificial values.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 2/7/2009 4:25:29 PM
Author: diamondbank
Karl i presume anybody within the industry who was invested in between 2004 and late 2008 as an example


Please see

Graph of overall diamond prices
Then why are they going bankrupt left and right?
 

diamondbank

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Date: 2/7/2009 4:27:46 PM
Author: strmrdr
Date: 2/7/2009 4:25:29 PM

Author: diamondbank

Karl i presume anybody within the industry who was invested in between 2004 and late 2008 as an example



Please see


Graph of overall diamond prices

Then why are they going bankrupt left and right?


Good question complex answer.

i will attempt to give you the obvious one

The main reason i think is that every industry is in the mess at the moment some less than others but all effected.The whole world is suffering so it would be unimaginable if the price of diamond stayed at their peak . All industries are trying to find the bottom at the moment, so that it can bring stability to their business. This is the economic cycle we are going through at the moment things will get better and the economy will improve it always does.

So the question we should ask ourselves on price is whether diamonds are a good buy now at their current price point as an investment or have they not reached their bottom yet and we should wait.
 

strmrdr

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I give up it is your money invest it as you will if your not just trolling here.
Report back in a year and tell us if you made any money....
 

WinkHPD

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Date: 2/7/2009 4:59:08 PM
Author: strmrdr
I give up it is your money invest it as you will if your not just trolling here.
Report back in a year and tell us if you made any money....

Amen! And don''t expect to drag any of the intelligent consumers at this site with you.

Wink
 

diamondbank

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Wink you still have not told the consumer the difference between your website selling diamonds over the internet and DODAQ. Surely discussions are helpful for pricescope readers. I have a topic, why diamonds are not traded like stocks and you are getting upset. I know you give a lot of good advice on this forum but take it easy. You dont own pricescope do you? Its free to use and express your thoughts if you dont find it interesting then stop posting here.Some people are enjoying the read.
 

suchende

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Pretty sure this is that poster MoneyMan coming back still stuck on the same (bad) idea, rather than someone trying to mislead/scam PSers...
 

diamondbank

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There are several factors contributing to low liquidity of diamonds. One of the main is the lack of terminal market. Most commodities have terminal markets, and some form of commodities exchange, clearing house, and central storage facilities. Until recently this did not exist for diamonds. Diamonds are also subject to value added tax in the UK, EU, and sales tax in most developed countries, therefore reducing their effectiveness as an investment medium. Most diamonds are sold through retail stores at very high profit margins.

Full article interesting read.

wikipedia
 

purrfectpear

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I smelled "shill" with post number one and would have said something but I hate to be thought of as the pessimistic poster on PS.

People don''t just happen on Pricescope and start out posting links with the idea to wholesale diamonds.

We really aren''t all that dumb you know
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Steel

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Gotta love the smell of fresh Troll in the morning
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(I called it too, brownie points for Steel!
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VRBeauty

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Date: 2/7/2009 5:38:26 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I smelled ''shill'' with post number one and would have said something but I hate to be thought of as the pessimistic poster on PS.

People don''t just happen on Pricescope and start out posting links with the idea to wholesale diamonds.

We really aren''t all that dumb you know
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Ditto. And spotted obvious misrepresentations not too soon after that.
 

diamondbank

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Some are missing the point forums are here to educate and give points of view on all types of subjects regarding diamonds. Let the people make their own decisions through research and understanding whether diamonds are now a good investment and post the comments here or anywhere else.

It seems for a certain few talking about diamonds as an investment seems to be a problem. Wonder why?


Are diamonds a good investment and if so why is there no central marketplace for them to be traded. Whether thats for the consumer or the expert.


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diamondbank

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This is an extract from an article written by Michael Törner, Vice President of 4C-Diamond, discussing the investment quality of diamonds. Its a bit of a read but is interesting.



Micahel Torner 4c-diamond
 

Steel

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Flogging...Dead...Horse...?
 
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