Does anyone not like the arrows in a H&A diamond

[chrono]

I have the above mentioned transition stone and also a H&A stone. I love both equally; one for the precision cut, the other for the mosiac pattern.

With the H&A, it is very difficult to get all the arrows to show up at the same time. VERY. The lighting has to be just so, and the stone tilted just right, and viewed at the correct distance. You will most likely hardly see it. Most of the time, I will see an arrow lit up here, or a couple threre amid all the sparkle. And the arrows are not dark, the arrows will be lit up with colour.

As for my wannabe OEC, it isn''t quite chaotic either. Actually, the cut is quite precise but in a different way. The cut creates a mosiac pattern to my eye that is symmetrical and consistant.

Two very different stones with different looks that appeals to different tastes.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 5/12/2008 2:41:05 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 5/11/2008 7:56:25 PM
Author: Rhino

Date: 5/11/2008 7:34:11 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Hey DF,

You can tell me its none of my business but just how many ladies are you purchasing diamonds for? I find it a bit trying with just one but more than one?

Are you an Arabian sheik with a harem?

hey Jon
more expensive than harem....two young daughters ages 20 and 21.

LOL... I can relate DF.

I have a 20 year old but thankfully I''m pawning her off this June.

haha... Now the diamond responsibilities will pass to her hubby.

Actually ... I''m sure there will be occasions I''ll want to get her one for one reason or another.

You''ll see Sarah posting around here from time to time now. She''s my little rhinocerette.

Although she''ll be leaving home I''ll still get to see her as she works alongside me.

I''ll be sure to tell her about you, we have a unique story about our first encounter eh DF? That was my first lesson in "don''t send a diamond to just any appraiser"!!!

Peace,

 

[Rhino]

Date: 5/11/2008 8:34:40 PM
Author: CrookedRock

Date: 5/11/2008 8:07:52 PM
Author: Rhino

Date: 5/11/2008 2:09:24 PM
Author: Ellen
I personally think there is beauty in all cuts, and I''d love to own one of each just to prove it.

I ran into an oddity this week in the realm of cushions. Generally when we''re calling in Cushions and its a ''cushion modified'' on the lab report most of the time those are the crushed ice kind, well I was in for a surprise. The thing had broad chunks like no tomorrow.

Gee ... just when you thought you''re learning about a certain consistency among certain criteria on lab reports there''s always that monkey wrench out there that throws ya for a loop.

Hey there Rhino!!! Wow, just what we need to confuse us even more! I would love to see a pic, do you have one? Or is it on the site?

I know CR ... totally thrown for a loop on that one.

Arjuna directed you properly. If I could I''d make one lil correction to the commentary in that vid ... I could make out a *slight* crushed ice effect just along the perimeter under the table but directly underneath were chunk. You can see that in the vid too. I also recently had a cushion modified that was distinctly chunky down the crown facets and totally crushed ice under the table. The appearance was kinda odd as it wasn''t consistent but I''m sure there is someone who''ll like it.

All the best girl.

 

[Rhino]

Hi Ellen,

Date: 5/12/2008 9:52:26 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 5/11/2008 8:07:52 PM
Author: Rhino

Bottom line is just make sure it is *your eyes* that enjoy what you purchase and noone elses regardless of shape or cutting style.

I agree.


I was thinking about this thread yesterday, and I do wonder if people who look at our blown up pics get a skewed view of H&A''s in real life. I know from looking at all the pics that they are easy to spot in other stones in real life, you can''t really not see them once you know what to look for/what you are looking at.

I can tell you it is perhaps one of the frustrating elements of selling via photography & and technologies. Particularly when a person becomes honed in on a particular technology. Take for example images generated when showing data. General Pic taken in controlled hemisphere lighting, RedReflector, ASET, 6 images generated via BrillianceScopce, Isee2, Photomicrographs, H&A images etc. Not one of them truly shows the diamond for how it will appear in the most common viewing environments that the average person is going to see. I''ll always feature it because they show off and emphasize various characteristics of the quality of the craftsmanship and the diamonds light performance but its the primary reason I''m turning to other tools to demonstrate cut quality and appearance. Don''t get me wrong, I like photograhy, IS/ASET and general pics but there is alot that is not communicated via general photography like head obstruction etc. which will most definitely impact the visual appearance. If I take a leaky diamond, place it against a white backdrop and snap off a shot the white behind the diamond could easily be misinterpreted.

However, my SIL who lives out of town, and who has never seen these photos, and possibly no real H&A cuts, outside of mine, is extremely drawn to my stone. She doesn''t know it''s H&A''s (I don''t think she even sees the arrows, she''s never said she has), I never told her, I just said it was very well cut. She just knows it''s beautiful, and not like any other round she''s seen. We see her at least twice a year, and she never fails to pick my ring up and look at it when I take it off.

I just wonder if some who don''t like them, would, if they didn''t know what they were, and hadn''t been subjected to hundreds of humongous photos.

btw, she has an oval, so she is not drawn to symmetrical cuts by nature.


Just my musings, not trying to change minds here.

I recall when I first started carrying H&A''s. Without the viewer I didn''t see them either and in our store, which like most all stores feature spotlighting, I was blown away by the consistency of the amazing fire and sparkle I was able to see from diamond to diamond. When I''m showing folks cold turkey in the store they too are immediately drawn to them and in diffuse lighting don''t say anything about arrows but the fact that they can observe more precise symmetry when they''re looking at it alongside a commonly cut round. I think my next ring though, at least for myself is going to be an Asscher.

 

[Rhino]

too funny splinter.

chrono ... you have 2 of my personal favs. I absolutely adore the mosaic of your cushion.

 

[ayala_jessica]

Date: 5/12/2008 11:04:12 AM
Author: ajl

Date: 5/11/2008 2:09:24 PM
Author: Ellen
I personally think there is beauty in all cuts, and I''d love to own one of each just to prove it.

Ditto!!! I have never seen a H&A in real life so I don''t know if I would like one or not. (I suspect that I would.) My original was a very nice RB but not a H&A. I was scared that if I replaced in w/ a H&A I would look at it and think ''boo hoo you aren''t the same stone''. So I went with a cushion so I wouldn''t try and make the comparison. Now I want an asscher, an EC, a pear w/ a halo, an OEC, an OMC and of course a H&A. Damn you PS and GOG.

Tritto !!

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/11/2008 8:07:52 PM
Author: Rhino

Date: 5/11/2008 2:09:24 PM
Author: Ellen
I personally think there is beauty in all cuts, and I''d love to own one of each just to prove it.

Yep. When you''ve seen many beautifully cut diamonds you learn to have an appreciation of them all. With regards to the H&A types (or diamonds with precise optical symmetry), regardless of a person''s taste I believe cutters should be rewarded for taking the time it does to cut such a piece of art as it reflects a level of care and craftsmanship that is not reflected in 99% of the diamond cutting world. Even though Optical Symmetry is a characteristic that is not yet taken into account by the 2 biggies, as conservative labs further refine their cut grading systems I believe it is an aspect that will eventually be taken into account because it is not only something that can be verified visibly in controlled lighting but can also be demonstrated and proven mathematically by scanners with the ability to measure all the facet sets showing plainly just how precise or how wonky a stone is cut. IMO always safer to play conservative but thats just my .02c. Bottom line is just make sure it is *your eyes* that enjoy what you purchase and noone elses regardless of shape or cutting style.

I ran into an oddity this week in the realm of cushions. Generally when we''re calling in Cushions and its a ''cushion modified'' on the lab report most of the time those are the crushed ice kind, well I was in for a surprise. The thing had broad chunks like no tomorrow.

Gee ... just when you thought you''re learning about a certain consistency among certain criteria on lab reports there''s always that monkey wrench out there that throws ya for a loop.

Rhino..., even a genuine antique called the "Tiffany Yellow" would have been identified as a Cushion "Modified" Brilliant on the condition the GIA would get the "chance" to grade it...

See: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/calling-cushion-experts-cehra-question-on-chart.60734/

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/check-this-out-tiffany-diamond-128-54-carats.60693/

There are loads of "chunky" Cushion Modified Brilliants out there! There are no rules about the relation between CMB and crushed appearances!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 5/12/2008 11:06:04 AM
Author: Splinter

Date: 5/9/2008 9:39:03 PM
Author: purrfectpear
BTW I saw a photo on eBay the other day with arrows photoshopped (badly) onto the pic of the stone

Man, some people will do anything to make a buck... Now I happen to have a genuine H&A for sale. The most perfect arrows you''ve ever seen. Let me know if anyone''s interested...

Dude, I want an exclusive dealership on those incredible arrows! (Or is that dudette?, perspiring minds don''t have a clue...)

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/12/2008 12:40:51 PM
Author: Rhino

Date: 5/12/2008 2:41:05 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 5/11/2008 7:56:25 PM
Author: Rhino

Date: 5/11/2008 7:34:11 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Hey DF,

You can tell me its none of my business but just how many ladies are you purchasing diamonds for? I find it a bit trying with just one but more than one?

Are you an Arabian sheik with a harem?

hey Jon
more expensive than harem....two young daughters ages 20 and 21.

LOL... I can relate DF.

I have a 20 year old but thankfully I''m pawning her off this June.

haha... Now the diamond responsibilities will pass to her hubby.

Actually ... I''m sure there will be occasions I''ll want to get her one for one reason or another.

You''ll see Sarah posting around here from time to time now. She''s my little rhinocerette.

Although she''ll be leaving home I''ll still get to see her as she works alongside me.

I''ll be sure to tell her about you, we have a unique story about our first encounter eh DF? That was my first lesson in ''don''t send a diamond to just any appraiser''!!!

Peace,

LOL !!! yeah, tell her that grandma Rhino couldn''t sleep for the whole week.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 5/12/2008 12:16:32 PM
Author: Chrono
I have the above mentioned transition stone and also a H&A stone. I love both equally; one for the precision cut, the other for the mosiac pattern.

With the H&A, it is very difficult to get all the arrows to show up at the same time. VERY. The lighting has to be just so, and the stone tilted just right, and viewed at the correct distance. You will most likely hardly see it. Most of the time, I will see an arrow lit up here, or a couple threre amid all the sparkle. And the arrows are not dark, the arrows will be lit up with colour.

As for my wannabe OEC, it isn''t quite chaotic either. Actually, the cut is quite precise but in a different way. The cut creates a mosiac pattern to my eye that is symmetrical and consistant.

Two very different stones with different looks that appeals to different tastes.

Chrono, may i ask where you got the transitional cut?
personally, i am a fan of all diamonds! but I admit I have grown fond of the older cuts since seeing some great examples on PS.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 5/12/2008 11:06:04 AM
Author: Splinter

Date: 5/9/2008 9:39:03 PM
Author: purrfectpear
BTW I saw a photo on eBay the other day with arrows photoshopped (badly) onto the pic of the stone

Man, some people will do anything to make a buck... Now I happen to have a genuine H&A for sale. The most perfect arrows you''ve ever seen. Let me know if anyone''s interested...

Lol, you''re funny!

 

[Vote4PedroToo]

I am loving this thread. I started lurking here when my BF and I started talking engagement. I didn''t know it, but he had a diamond already from a jeweler who was reccomended to him. But we shopped anyway looking for settings. Based on this site, I really wanted a H&A diamond. But every time we looked there was something I didn''t like. I don''t know how to describe it. Until now, I would be embarrased to say it. But the H&A diamonds were too perfect. I thought there was something wrong with me until now. I''m a photojournalistic portrait photographer. I love off-center images. I tend to hate symetry in design. I love putting little girls in tutus on top of piles of tires if that will give you a visual of my artistic sense. Call it Shabby Chic. But I thought diamonds were different. The more symetrical the better, right? I sort of found myself caught up in the perfection.

I was married once before and my ring was an antique. It was .98 ct Old European cut. My late husband and I found it at an estate sale. I loved it. It was firey and sparkely and beautiful. Although it was never appraised. I really want to pull it out of the safe and post it.

Fast forward, I think my Hubby to be got a little ripped off. Actually we both know he did. With what he spend he could have gotten me an H&A for close to the same price from a PS online vendor. But still my diamond is beautiful. It is 2.01 ct, SI2 color I, and says it''s a "Tolkowsky Ideal Cut" (not sure what that means). But it''s so bright and sparkly (really sparkly and firey). I get stopped all the time with it. It has a very tiny inclusion that I love. I can only see it when I hold the diamond just right and close to my eyes. But it is there. I would have been afraid to admit that until today. I love that little inclusion! I could identify it in a lineup if I had to! It''s all mine. You can see it on my show me the ring thread linked below.

This is not to say that I don''t appreciate a H&A. As an artist, I appreciate any perfected art. I plan on studs and a pendant at some point and I think that a H&A would be perfect for those because I''m not looking at them all the time and they are so impressive to everyone.

But the diamond on my finger is perfect for me. I''m glad there are a few people out there that feel the same way I do. I thought I was crazy.




show me the ring thread

 

[surfgirl]

Vote4PedroToo, it saddens me to hear that you felt uncomfortable speaking your truth here (though I'm glad you did now!)...but as you can see, there are a few others that see what you see. It doesn't mean we cannot appreciate other stones, we just prefer what speaks to our individual eyes and personal aesthetic. You say potato, someone else says potahto, right?

BTW, I'd love to see your old ering, if you feel like posting a thread on SMTR...there's a growing old cuts club here and we always love seeing anyone's old beauties! And...I'd also love to see close ups of your current ring...if you feel like posting more pix...

 

[Vote4PedroToo]

Thanks for that. I''m not an expert, but I think I know enough to know what works if that makes any sense. My new ring is linked to that last post I made. I''ll photograph my old one and post it soon. Thanks for your welcoming words. I know you are right. Everyone here is so helpful and wonderful. I check in here everyday and it has nothing to do with my daily life. I''m addicted.

 

[arjunajane]

and says it's a "Tolkowsky Ideal Cut" (not sure what that means).

Vote, just a note that tolkowsky was the man that discovered the mathematical equation to create ideal cut diamonds, so most likley your diamond is an H&A without you even knowing it!

I agree with Surf, i'm sorry you felt self conscious about posting your thoughts!

btw, I've seen your ring before and its totally stunning its one of the only tension sets I would love to have for myself

 

[Vote4PedroToo]

First off, Thanks for the compliment on my ring. I love it to no end. That was nice of you to say.


It's not H&A. the cert is an EGA (from Israel). We feel like we are going to be lucky if that cut "sticks". It's absolutely does not have that "perfect symmetry" of the H&A I have seen. I see an arrow here and an arrow there, but not the perfect ones I have seen shopping. I'm happy about that really. But who knows how it will be appraised. We do that next week. Again, I love the diamond. I'm only worried about the appraisal because I do feel like my fiance was ripped off a bit in price. I feel bad for him.
Again, I love you all here. This is a great site with great people.
~T

 

[2Artists]

Vote4PedroToo I really loved hearing about your rings and about your opinion as a photographer. I like that you love the inclusion. Also your ring is stunning and unusual as is the quality of photo in your avatar.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 5/13/2008 2:37:44 AM
Author: Vote4PedroToo
First off, Thanks for the compliment on my ring. I love it to no end. That was nice of you to say.


It''s not H&A. the cert is an EGA (from Israel). We feel like we are going to be lucky if that cut ''sticks''. It''s absolutely does not have that ''perfect symmetry'' of the H&A I have seen. I see an arrow here and an arrow there, but not the perfect ones I have seen shopping. I''m happy about that really. But who knows how it will be appraised. We do that next week. Again, I love the diamond. I''m only worried about the appraisal because I do feel like my fiance was ripped off a bit in price. I feel bad for him.
Again, I love you all here. This is a great site with great people.
~T

hmmm..interesting explanation. I wonder if the "Tolkowsy Cut" claim then is valid?

I would love to hear the result of your appraisal - but you know, even if its not what was advertised, you love your ring and its gorgeous so thats what matters!

 

[chrono]

Date: 5/12/2008 10:43:55 PM
Author: arjunajane
Chrono, may i ask where you got the transitional cut?
personally, i am a fan of all diamonds! but I admit I have grown fond of the older cuts since seeing some great examples on PS.

Mine was a virtual stone. I had the option of JA or WF to call it in, but I decided on WF since they could do an IScope on it. At that time, JA didn''t post IScopes yet. Also, I wasn''t afraid of the EGL USA cert, which in my case, the stone checked out exactly as stated for the colour and clarity.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 5/12/2008 1:21:14 PM
Author: Rhino
Hi Ellen,



I can tell you it is perhaps one of the frustrating elements of selling via photography & and technologies. Particularly when a person becomes honed in on a particular technology. Take for example images generated when showing data. General Pic taken in controlled hemisphere lighting, RedReflector, ASET, 6 images generated via BrillianceScopce, Isee2, Photomicrographs, H&A images etc. Not one of them truly shows the diamond for how it will appear in the most common viewing environments that the average person is going to see. I'll always feature it because they show off and emphasize various characteristics of the quality of the craftsmanship and the diamonds light performance but its the primary reason I'm turning to other tools to demonstrate cut quality and appearance. Don't get me wrong, I like photograhy, IS/ASET and general pics but there is alot that is not communicated via general photography like head obstruction etc. which will most definitely impact the visual appearance. If I take a leaky diamond, place it against a white backdrop and snap off a shot the white behind the diamond could easily be misinterpreted.



I recall when I first started carrying H&A's. Without the viewer I didn't see them either and in our store, which like most all stores feature spotlighting, I was blown away by the consistency of the amazing fire and sparkle I was able to see from diamond to diamond. When I'm showing folks cold turkey in the store they too are immediately drawn to them and in diffuse lighting don't say anything about arrows but the fact that they can observe more precise symmetry when they're looking at it alongside a commonly cut round. I think my next ring though, at least for myself is going to be an Asscher.

Oh sure, rub it in.

Hey Jon.

It sounds then like my musings may have actually had a bit a validity. I will be seeing my SIL in July, I may ask her what it is about my stone that draws her to it, and see what she says.

And Vote, I'm sorry you felt you couldn't speak up about your stone too. We love ALL diamonds here, really. We would never speak unkindly of a sparkley.

Here's a thread with older cuts posted in it. We'd love to see yours, if you'd like to share!

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-your-antique-cuts-part-2.65973/

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 5/13/2008 7:15:14 AM
Author: Chrono

Date: 5/12/2008 10:43:55 PM
Author: arjunajane
Chrono, may i ask where you got the transitional cut?
personally, i am a fan of all diamonds! but I admit I have grown fond of the older cuts since seeing some great examples on PS.

Mine was a virtual stone. I had the option of JA or WF to call it in, but I decided on WF since they could do an IScope on it. At that time, JA didn't post IScopes yet. Also, I wasn't afraid of the EGL USA cert, which in my case, the stone checked out exactly as stated for the colour and clarity.

Thankyou for the reply

i had no idea WF etc also sold these cuts - I think this will have to be my next project. I love the look of yours . Either that, or a lovely coloured stone ring - I have just been checking out that spess of yours - yum! I never knew coloured stones could have such pretty cuts too. Anyway, pls excuse my rant!

 

[chrono]

Date: 5/13/2008 8:25:33 AM
Author: arjunajane
Thankyou for the reply

i had no idea WF etc also sold these cuts - I think this will have to be my next project. I love the look of yours . Either that, or a lovely coloured stone ring - I have just been checking out that spess of yours - yum! I never knew coloured stones could have such pretty cuts too. Anyway, pls excuse my rant!

You are welcome. Tough choice between antique cut diamonds and coloured gemstones.

 

[Vote4PedroToo]

Ellen,
I posted to your thread.