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Calling Cushion Experts! Cehra question on chart....

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yellowsparkles

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you created.

I am narrowing my cushion search and found two cushions with plots exactly like #9 on your chart. Can you give me your thoughts on this facet plan? I have seen pictures of the stone and it looks nice to me. What I want to avoid is the crushed ice effect (trading my crushed ice cushion for a more push cushion). I want to narrow the choices before calling the stones in to view.

I am trying to read all the wonderful cushion threads..... just so darn complicated.

Sorry, I am having problems attaching the chart.


 

yellowsparkles

Shiny_Rock
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I have the pics of these two stones and their facet plot is like #9 on Cehra''s wonderful cushion chart.
IF it is described as cushion modified brilliant, does that make it a "crushed ice cushion"? Neither look like crushed ice to me.

Based on numbers alone - can I get opinions on these two stones?

Stone #1:
1.54 ct
G
SI1
7.01 X 6.42 X 4.42
55% table
68.8% depth
Med culet
Flor - None
Polish = VG
Sym - G

Stone #2
2.04 ct
F
VS1
7.18 X 6.92 X 5.25
56% table
75.9% depth
Med culet
Flor - none
Polish - VG
Sym - G
 

neatfreak

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Based only on the numbers, and assuming there are no others out there, I like #1 better simply because #2 is very deep on paper. But I would hold out for a cushion that has either VG or Excellent symmetry. But really, with cushions you CANNOT just look at the numbers, you really need to see them in person because even two cushions with the same plot can look crazy different. I don't know which one you're referring to, but here is a short answer:

But just in the interest of answering your other question, the ones with the crushed ice look will almost always say "cushion MODIFIED brilliant" on the cert.


ETA: I saw Cehra's chart and the ones you're referring to are most likely "crushed ice" cushions because they are a modified brilliant. But if YOU LOVE IT, BUY IT!


THIS one will look like crushed ice:

cushionplotpic7mod copy.jpg
 

neatfreak

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And THIS one will generally NOT look like crushed ice, but will not always look the same unfortunately. Many cushions here on PS (including my own) have this plot and don''t look alike. Unfortunately there are many factors with cushions and numbers don''t really tell you too much.

picofcertbrilliant.jpg
 

yellowsparkles

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Here is a picture of stone number 1.
When I think of crushed ice, I think of a radiant. Believe me, I know I have to see the stone in person! I am trying to get some sort of "feel" for what I like before calling in stones.

Many thanks.

sssstone 1.jpg
 

neatfreak

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Hmmm...Doesn''t look crushed icey to me either! And it is a modified huh? Have you seen pictures under bright lights too? Usually that is where it looks more crushed to me. But again, this is why the plots of cushions are only a bit helpful, it is SUCH a pain huh?

Based on that picture, I really like it!
 

yellowsparkles

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here is a side view of the stone.
I like it from the pictures..... on the GIA cert, it says the crown angle exceeds 40%. Does that sound right?

cushion 1 side.jpg
 

yellowsparkles

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Ok everyone please be honest with me.
Scott 00 I love your avatar.
My question = has anyone seen a culet that looks rectangular like this picture? Just wondering. I love cushions like Scotts00, Boston Jeff and Cehara, and neatfreak. I just want to see if I am going in the right direction.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 4/13/2007 10:03:01 AM
Author: yellowsparkles
Here is a picture of stone number 1.
When I think of crushed ice, I think of a radiant. Believe me, I know I have to see the stone in person! I am trying to get some sort of ''feel'' for what I like before calling in stones.

Many thanks.
Wow... that is a *beautiful* stone!! trade ya!!! ;-) Seriously - my crown angle is at like 39.8 but I *wish* it was over 40! I LOVE the profile shot of that stone... this looks to my eyes a GORGEOUS stone but that''s based on two pictures... what you need to do is take that thing into different lights and see what it does with its light return. An IS or ASET wouldn''t *hurt* but since you''ve had diamonds before you''ll know if you love it when you see it :) They really can wow you!! I didn''t read the stats yet, just saw pics and had to comment so I''ll look over the rest of your thread now lol
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 4/13/2007 2:31:27 AM
Author:yellowsparkles

I am narrowing my cushion search and found two cushions with plots exactly like #9 on your chart. Can you give me your thoughts on this facet plan? I have seen pictures of the stone and it looks nice to me. What I want to avoid is the crushed ice effect (trading my crushed ice cushion for a more push cushion). I want to narrow the choices before calling the stones in to view.

Sorry, I am having problems attaching the chart.
 

Cehrabehra

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11,071
Date: 4/13/2007 12:17:04 PM
Author: yellowsparkles
Ok everyone please be honest with me.
Scott 00 I love your avatar.
My question = has anyone seen a culet that looks rectangular like this picture? Just wondering. I love cushions like Scotts00, Boston Jeff and Cehara, and neatfreak. I just want to see if I am going in the right direction.
the culet in my stone is rectangular... and I don''t know why they''re calling this a modified it does NOT look like a modified to me at *all*. It definitely looks like an antique style cushion. But the other stone you mentioned I can''t say...

Do you have a copy of the GIA (or whomever) cert?

Hmmm.... going to look at the profile shot again and see what I can get from the pavillion...
 

neatfreak

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Date: 4/13/2007 12:17:04 PM
Author: yellowsparkles
Ok everyone please be honest with me.

Scott 00 I love your avatar.

My question = has anyone seen a culet that looks rectangular like this picture? Just wondering. I love cushions like Scotts00, Boston Jeff and Cehara, and neatfreak. I just want to see if I am going in the right direction.
You know, I have not seen a culet like that. But again, cushions are all different and it doesn''t mean anything. I really like the look of the stone, so I would suggest that you at least take a look at it. All that really matters is that YOU love it!

Most of the cushions you have said you liked are either cushion brilliants (like #5 in picture) or are Old Mine Brilliants (#8). So if you need to tell your vendor what you generally like tell them:

1. Either cushion brilliant or old mine brilliant.

2. Chunkier facets and NO crushed ice look.

But that''s just a guideline and it seems that you''re doing well yourself as that is a pretty stone.

Can I ask who you''re working with? Because I believe that Scott (not positive), Jeff, Fatafelice (another one to look at), and myself have all gotten our cushions from Mark at ERD. He really knows his stuff and has managed to get all of us pretty much exactly what we want with only simple directions about the kind of stones we like.

If you send him pictures of any of our cushions he will be happy to source some for you and he is unofficially known as the "cushion king" here on PS.
 

yellowsparkles

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
312
I do have a copy of the GIA Cert. Should I post it? Is it appropriate? i do like this stone. My current stone is 1.37 cts and this one is 1.54 cts. I was hoping to trade for a larger stone.... don''t want DSS to sink in again. It is difficult. I like the color of my current stone, but the cut is not right for me. I have always loved the chunky pillowy cushions... and this is a nice crushed ice cushion. Nothing wrong with it.... it''s just not "IT" when I look at it. I wanted yellow intense..... now I want CUT. That is what pricescope does to ya.....
 

Scott Terence

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
278
Hi Yellowsparkles,

Thanks for your kind compliments


I believe that Cehra''s cushion has an elongated culet so she''d be better to comment on that.

The stone #1 looks nice, kind of a mix between the cushion brilliant and omc facet pattern. The shape is a bit ovalish in the picture, I happen to prefer the more "filled out" squarish stones but its definitely personal preference on that. From the picture I wonder what the clarity plot is like, I think I see something at the 7-8 o''clock at the periphery, that would need to be viewed in person to ensure its eyeclean.

One thing I noticed is that you are shying away from stone #2 because of its high depth percentage, but sometimes that depth can be very beautiful, I think mine is 75% (with a seriously high crown), only thing to keep in mind is that the price should reflect this as a discount and that the stone ought to trade for a comparable stone from a *face up* surface area, though since its over the 2ct mark, expect to pay for that magic number. One of the things I love about my stone is that the crown "pops" out of the setting and is able to catch extra light and have that oldschool treasure chest gemmy look (or like those ring lollypops that I sometimes had as a kid


Goodluck and more pictures are always welcomed!!!

Date: 4/13/2007 12:17:04 PM
Author: yellowsparkles
Ok everyone please be honest with me.
Scott 00 I love your avatar.
My question = has anyone seen a culet that looks rectangular like this picture? Just wondering. I love cushions like Scotts00, Boston Jeff and Cehara, and neatfreak. I just want to see if I am going in the right direction.
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
Date: 4/13/2007 12:30:58 PM
Author: yellowsparkles
I do have a copy of the GIA Cert. Should I post it? Is it appropriate? i do like this stone. My current stone is 1.37 cts and this one is 1.54 cts. I was hoping to trade for a larger stone.... don't want DSS to sink in again. It is difficult. I like the color of my current stone, but the cut is not right for me. I have always loved the chunky pillowy cushions... and this is a nice crushed ice cushion. Nothing wrong with it.... it's just not 'IT' when I look at it. I wanted yellow intense..... now I want CUT. That is what pricescope does to ya.....
Always appropriate to post certs, BUT if you don't have the stone on hold occasionally someone (lurkers!) will steal it from you, so if you might want it, put it on hold before posting the GIA #.

ETA: Unless you have a reason not to, please call Mark. He will find you a fantastic stone with ex polish, ex. symmetry, and a fantastic cut!
 

Cehrabehra

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Joined
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Messages
11,071
I haven''t really talked about it specifically, but for months I''ve been trying to figure out how to explain some of my thoughts/ideas/theories about internal ratios and external ratios... and if this isn''t making sense then just ignore me LOL

This stone below has an external ratio that is much more square than mine, but on the inside the facets are long which bring in some emerald cut flavor to my eyes, which at first I did not like but have grown to really *love*. I can''t tell you how much I wish I could sit with diagem for an hour to discuss this stuff so I could make more cohesive thoughts on this... you can find very long stones with even internal facet structure which do NOT look like this and look more like diagem''s stones. The internal and external ratios are somewhat mutually independent.

anyway, the way the facets are here is much more of an antique stone, and something about this stone is very pleasing to the eye. I LOVE LOVE LOVE how stones like this can be so similar to mine or jeff''s etc. and yet have such unique - truly unique - personalities! I am *thrilled* that there are people who find this attractive when it seems like the majority seek essentially identically cut stones. I think its easier to bond for a lifetime with this cut and I wish I could visit them all... omg what a DORK - this tears me up!! LOL


"yours" looks to have both a higher crown AND a steeper pavillion... which could be awesome - it LOOKS pretty (one of the benefits of this cut of stone is that it truly looks unique and amazing like a sculpture - from EVERY angle, and face up is just one of many... it might not have *quite* the pow pow pow of an ideal round brilliant, but it dances with fire from every angle) anyway... these pictures are gorgeous but you MUST take it around in different lights to see... you can see my stone below this one, very similar profiles other than that mine has maybe more "spread" which is only a negligible issue when looking for this type of cut. Note mine has the same long thin culet type that the stone you posted does.

 

Scott Terence

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
278
Just to clarify, I worked with Rick Shatz Inc (by way of James Allen) to get my stone which I picked out of 15-16 such stones (well I got two, one for me and the other for my mom


However I did work with Mark T to create my ring, and the quality of the worksmanship is OUTSTANDING!


Date: 4/13/2007 12:28:11 PM
Author: neatfreak



Can I ask who you''re working with? Because I believe that Scott (not positive), Jeff, Fatafelice (another one to look at), and myself have all gotten our cushions from Mark at ERD. He really knows his stuff and has managed to get all of us pretty much exactly what we want with only simple directions about the kind of stones we like.
 

yellowsparkles

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
312
LOL. Scot00! My daughter loves those ring lollypops! Thanks for the post. I am in the process of getting prices for both stones. the 1.54 ct stone has a ration of 1.09 and the 2.04 ct cushion''s ration is 1.037. I also prefer the squarish cushons... just looks better on my hand. OK. I was shying away from the 2.04 because of the depth. Here is the picture of the 2.04.... what do you think compared to the 1.54???

sssstone 2.jpg
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
11,071
Date: 4/13/2007 9:44:08 AM
Author: yellowsparkles
I have the pics of these two stones and their facet plot is like #9 on Cehra''s wonderful cushion chart.
IF it is described as cushion modified brilliant, does that make it a ''crushed ice cushion''? Neither look like crushed ice to me.

Based on numbers alone - can I get opinions on these two stones?

Stone #1:
1.54 ct
G
SI1
7.01 X 6.42 X 4.42
55% table
68.8% depth
Med culet
Flor - None
Polish = VG
Sym - G

Stone #2
2.04 ct
F
VS1
7.18 X 6.92 X 5.25
56% table
75.9% depth
Med culet
Flor - none
Polish - VG
Sym - G
stone number 2 is quite a bit deeper which could give it an amazing ability to play with color (or not) but it also means that you''re getting almost another 1/2 carat with very little of it being a visible difference in size. Other than that I just can''t speak on stone #2. One more thing about stone #1 is that the sym may only be G but the stone''s facets have a unique lacey pattern that is very pretty.... but every stone is different, unique... so you have to find the pattern than pleases your eyes.

God I love cushions!!!!!!!!
 

Cehrabehra

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Messages
11,071
Date: 4/13/2007 12:30:58 PM
Author: yellowsparkles
I do have a copy of the GIA Cert. Should I post it? Is it appropriate? i do like this stone. My current stone is 1.37 cts and this one is 1.54 cts. I was hoping to trade for a larger stone.... don''t want DSS to sink in again. It is difficult. I like the color of my current stone, but the cut is not right for me. I have always loved the chunky pillowy cushions... and this is a nice crushed ice cushion. Nothing wrong with it.... it''s just not ''IT'' when I look at it. I wanted yellow intense..... now I want CUT. That is what pricescope does to ya.....
yes, it is appropriate, but if you don''t want the GIA cert # to post black that out before you post it - that way no one else can steal it from ya!! But DEFINITELY post it...
 

Scott Terence

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Messages
278
It was actually fun when I brought the stones to Mark... I told him it was an antique OMC and he louped it and said "yes, yes you''re right", then he liked my handheld blacklight (I am OBVIOUSLY a fluorescence dork) heheh
 

neatfreak

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Date: 4/13/2007 12:38:31 PM
Author: yellowsparkles
LOL. Scot00! My daughter loves those ring lollypops! Thanks for the post. I am in the process of getting prices for both stones. the 1.54 ct stone has a ration of 1.09 and the 2.04 ct cushion''s ration is 1.037. I also prefer the squarish cushons... just looks better on my hand. OK. I was shying away from the 2.04 because of the depth. Here is the picture of the 2.04.... what do you think compared to the 1.54???
When a cushion thread shows up I get NO work done, lol.

I really really love the 2.04 because the facet pattern is so much nicer IMO. But you are potentially paying for a lot of stone that you won''t see. Depends on how important budget is and whether you are set on making your decision between just these two.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 4/13/2007 12:17:04 PM
Author: yellowsparkles
Ok everyone please be honest with me.
Scott 00 I love your avatar.
My question = has anyone seen a culet that looks rectangular like this picture? Just wondering. I love cushions like Scotts00, Boston Jeff and Cehara, and neatfreak. I just want to see if I am going in the right direction.
JFTR neatfreak''s cushion is a different cut, but I have no idea what it is exactly. It doesn''t quite look like an antique cushion (antique cushions have a definite pinwheel array from the culet whether they be uniform like an oec or if the corners are narrower like in an omc). Neatfreak''s cushion is still chunky but I haven''t quite been able to put my finger on the facet patterning. Maybe it''s the same cut but there is something about the reflections or something that causes a slightly different pattern.

Fate Felice and Silverlilly both have antique style cushions as does I think tigerlilly? The one set e/w in the leon?
 

Scott Terence

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
278
WHOA! I REALLY like stone #2, it has that "draw your eye in" quality and that culet virtual facet is very beautiful. I *AM* biased because its like a larger cousin to my lil baby
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 4/13/2007 12:28:11 PM
Author: neatfreak

Can I ask who you''re working with? Because I believe that Scott (not positive), Jeff, Fatafelice (another one to look at), and myself have all gotten our cushions from Mark at ERD. He really knows his stuff and has managed to get all of us pretty much exactly what we want with only simple directions about the kind of stones we like.

If you send him pictures of any of our cushions he will be happy to source some for you and he is unofficially known as the ''cushion king'' here on PS.
ITA - and now that I''m looking at your avatar some more, I think you have a modern cushion (still could be called a cushion brilliant - both the antique and moderns have the same cut name) which is set as jeff would say on the equitorial lines LOL or something like that! But it looks a little different than that in the center too... I dunno... I''d have to loupe it! ha!!
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 4/13/2007 12:31:08 PM
Author: Scott 00
Hi Yellowsparkles,

Thanks for your kind compliments


I believe that Cehra''s cushion has an elongated culet so she''d be better to comment on that.

The stone #1 looks nice, kind of a mix between the cushion brilliant and omc facet pattern. The shape is a bit ovalish in the picture, I happen to prefer the more ''filled out'' squarish stones but its definitely personal preference on that. From the picture I wonder what the clarity plot is like, I think I see something at the 7-8 o''clock at the periphery, that would need to be viewed in person to ensure its eyeclean.

One thing I noticed is that you are shying away from stone #2 because of its high depth percentage, but sometimes that depth can be very beautiful, I think mine is 75% (with a seriously high crown), only thing to keep in mind is that the price should reflect this as a discount and that the stone ought to trade for a comparable stone from a *face up* surface area, though since its over the 2ct mark, expect to pay for that magic number. One of the things I love about my stone is that the crown ''pops'' out of the setting and is able to catch extra light and have that oldschool treasure chest gemmy look (or like those ring lollypops that I sometimes had as a kid
Scott!! :) ;-) Listen to him, he''s brilliant! But we don''t always agree on details, I like the squarer look as well but it suits scott - me, I''m a bit softer around the edges anyway :D I didn''t see anything inclusion wise... and the reason I had to comment at all was because I loved how you said it looked like a treasure chest! Yes and I love that look!!!!!
 

Scott Terence

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Assuming that both stones were photographed in the same environment, you can see how much more brilliant and vibrant stone #2 is in comparison to #1, I think that is why my gut reaction was so strong for the second option.
 

Cehrabehra

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Joined
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Date: 4/13/2007 12:38:31 PM
Author: yellowsparkles
LOL. Scot00! My daughter loves those ring lollypops! Thanks for the post. I am in the process of getting prices for both stones. the 1.54 ct stone has a ration of 1.09 and the 2.04 ct cushion''s ration is 1.037. I also prefer the squarish cushons... just looks better on my hand. OK. I was shying away from the 2.04 because of the depth. Here is the picture of the 2.04.... what do you think compared to the 1.54???
wow that''s gorgeous too and another NOT modified cut - who the hell is calling it that? This is almost like scott''s stone - classic omc style square cushion.

I think the biggest diff for you would be whether you want it more square or more elongated! Beautiful stones!!
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 4/13/2007 12:38:31 PM
Author: yellowsparkles
LOL. Scot00! My daughter loves those ring lollypops! Thanks for the post. I am in the process of getting prices for both stones. the 1.54 ct stone has a ration of 1.09 and the 2.04 ct cushion''s ration is 1.037. I also prefer the squarish cushons... just looks better on my hand. OK. I was shying away from the 2.04 because of the depth. Here is the picture of the 2.04.... what do you think compared to the 1.54???
okay I don''t read ahead well LOL There''s nothing to shy away from with this stone! It''s gorgeous! If you prefer more square stones then by all means don''t let this one scare you off!!! It''s beautiful! Reminds me of xraydoc''s stone!

xraydoctightshot.jpg
 
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