Do Jewellers not like creating rings from own sourced diamonds??.

[Eeveepenny]

Hi all,

I live in Brisbane, Australia and shortly I will be on the hunt to find a jeweller to create an engagement ring with a diamond that I have purchased online.

Is this a big no no? Will Jewellers decline to do the job because it’s not a diamond that they supplied.

I have just bought a diamond (as you probably know from my previous posts). However I don’t really want to get the company to make the ring as I am quite fussy and I don’t know what the quality will be like and it will be a pain/costly/timely to send it all the way back to the US if I don’t like the ring.

I’m concerned though that I may find it difficult to find a willing Jeweller, has anyone had any trouble or can anyone reccomended a Jeweller in Brisbane that would be happy to do it?

TIA

 

[Ally T]

I think it varies. The two fabulous jewellers I use here in the UK, one local & one in London, are vastly different in that respect. My local guy will remake & use your own stones & does amazing things with them. My London guy won't - he will only work with you if you buy the stones from his dealer. Both extremely amazing craftsmen. Go figure?

It might be worth getting a list of some highly recommend jewellers together, then approaching them individually. I think if the cost of the setting you want making is substantial enough, they will work with your own stone.

 

[Bron357]

Many jewellers can be “funny” because they like to get their cut of the diamond sale as well as the ring manufacture. That’s life.
My tip, say it’s an inherited diamond from your fiancée family (all diamonds are millions of years old). They tend to be more receptive.
That said, many Australian Jewellers “take all care but accept no responsibility” regarding any damage to gems they are setting if you aren’t buying the gem(s) off them. It’s an insurance issue.
It is only rarely that a diamond might be damaged during setting, but it does happen, so make sure you choose a reputable jeweller with a good track record and ascertain what, if any, liability they will accept if your diamond is damaged during the ring setting

 

[123ducklings]

My tip, say it’s an inherited diamond from your fiancée family (all diamonds are millions of years old). They tend to be more receptive.

OP, is it one of the lab grown diamonds you’ve been looking at? Depending on the source it might be inscribed labeling it as lab. You might want to loupe it yourself and see what markings it has ahead of time.

 

[MollyMalone]

He's not local to you as he is in Vincentia NSW, but a number of PSers have been very pleased by their dealings with Alistair Kelsey & his designs and the level of craftsmanship in his pieces:

Alistair Kelsey Jewellery

www.alistairkelsey.com

The Alistair Kelsey collection

We seem to see more work of young and talented designer Alistair Kelsey lately here on PS. He makes handmade rings with a good dose of elegant chique. A good reason for a dedicated Alistair Kelsey thread!

www.pricescope.com

And so far as I know, he is the only Australian jewelsmith who provides (to Australians) insured shipping both ways and will cover loss of/damage to an "outside" stone while it is with him -- or at least that was the case several years ago when Australian @SeekingClarity was exploring what options there might be for the diamond he purchased from Victor Canera in the US:

Review of Victor Canera + Alistair Kelsey (from Sydney)

Hello! After receiving so much guidance and insight from the forum, it is time to give a little something back. Apologies if this runs on a bit long! Before discovering pricescope, I thought I had done an adequate amount of research prior to going to see diamonds in person. However, it was...

www.pricescope.com

Most any USA jeweler who will agree to work with a customer-supplied stone will ask you to waive liability for any damage to the stone or its loss during the fabrication process. But at least those of us in the USA have the possibility of obtaining a short-term insurance policy for a loose stone from Jewelers Mutual. No Australian PSer in recent years has reported they've been able to find an insurer who will issue that same kind of policy for a loose stone.

 

[flyingpig]

Generally, they do not like it, because they are not making any profit on selling diamonds. They often do not offer any discount on settings only.

I say it is somewhat similar to "Bring Your Own Bottle" program at restaueants. While some allow, most do not like it or allow it on cerntain days of the week only when it is slow.

 

[MollyMalone]

Generally, they do not like it, because they are not making any profit on selling diamonds. They often do not offer any discount on settings only.

I say it is somewhat similar to "Bring Your Own Bottle" program at restaueants. While some allow, most do not like it or allow it on cerntain days of the week only when it is slow.

I don't think it's just a matter of them begrudging the fact that you sourced the diamond elsewhere, didn't give them the sale of the stone. The insurance carried by the vast majority (at least here in the States) of jewelers doesn't cover outside stones. And even when a customer has formally waived liability, that doesn't preclude the customer from making a stink on social media; demanding that the jeweler compensate him/her for loss or damage; and/or filing a lawsuit that the jeweler has to defend against even if it has no substantive legal merit. So it's easier, less risky for the jeweler to simply say, "Thanks but no thanks."

 

[1ofakind]

I have found both. When I was looking to do a 20 year upgrade I picked out the center myself and then was disappointed that several places would not work with my diamond. But some would work with customer gemstones. I figured they just wanted their cut of selling me a diamond and not enough mark-up on other gemstones. I did find a mom and pop jeweler and then DK after not being thrilled with the first outcome. In our town now town there is also a mix of jewelers who will use what I have or want to source it themselves. I use DK for most of my major projects though

 

[MollyMalone]

I have found both. When I was looking to do a 20 year upgrade I picked out the center myself and then was disappointed that several places would not work with my diamond. But some would work with customer gemstones. I figured they just wanted their cut of selling me a diamond and not enough mark-up on other gemstones. I did find a mom and pop jeweler and then DK after not being thrilled with the first outcome. In our town now town there is also a mix of jewelers who will use what I have or want to source it themselves. I use DK for most of my major projects though

Did David Klass and the local jeweler who was willing to work with your stone tell you they would, or would not, cover damage to/loss of your stone -- or was the question of risk-liability something that wasn't the topic of any discussion? A lot of people don't think to ask about that, and it seems that not every jeweler will broach the topic themselves.

 

[Eeveepenny]

He's not local to you as he is in Vincentia NSW, but a number of PSers have been very pleased by their dealings with Alistair Kelsey & his designs and the level of craftsmanship in his pieces:

Alistair Kelsey Jewellery

www.alistairkelsey.com

The Alistair Kelsey collection

We seem to see more work of young and talented designer Alistair Kelsey lately here on PS. He makes handmade rings with a good dose of elegant chique. A good reason for a dedicated Alistair Kelsey thread!

www.pricescope.com

And so far as I know, he is the only Australian jewelsmith who provides (to Australians) insured shipping both ways and will cover loss of/damage to an "outside" stone while it is with him -- or at least that was the case several years ago when Australian @SeekingClarity was exploring what options there might be for the diamond he purchased from Victor Canera in the US:

Review of Victor Canera + Alistair Kelsey (from Sydney)

Hello! After receiving so much guidance and insight from the forum, it is time to give a little something back. Apologies if this runs on a bit long! Before discovering pricescope, I thought I had done an adequate amount of research prior to going to see diamonds in person. However, it was...

www.pricescope.com

Most any USA jeweler who will agree to work with a customer-supplied stone will ask you to waive liability for any damage to the stone or its loss during the fabrication process. But at least those of us in the USA have the possibility of obtaining a short-term insurance policy for a loose stone from Jewelers Mutual. No Australian PSer in recent years has reported they've been able to find an insurer who will issue that same kind of policy for a loose stone.

Thank you!!! I have had a look at Alistair’s Instagram page and his designs are amazing! I have just emailed him

 

[GliderPoss]

I highly recommend McKims in Milton, Brisbane. I had a ring made there and they were fantastic!

I also brought my own stones to them and they were more than happy to work with them.

 

[Eeveepenny]

I highly recommend McKims in Milton, Brisbane. I had a ring made there and they were fantastic!

I also brought my own stones to them and they were more than happy to work with them.

Thank you!! I’ll email them now

 

[1ofakind]

@MollyMalone I guess I don’t know and in the case of already having purchased my own diamond it didn’t matter why they were refusing to work with it. My jewelry is covered under my insurance, even for setting loose stones so that is not an issue on my end.

 

[stonehunter20]

this is a very interesting topic. totally understand that from a jeweler's perspective, they want their cut by selling the stone. however, with so many reputable online vendors, with the same budget, i can find way better stones in all aspects compared to what i can find at jewelers', whose inventory is a lot more limited and more expensive.

here it brings up a question: if a jeweler who truly has customers' best interest in heart and when their offering is not competitive enough compared to online vendors, shouldn't they keep customers' best interest in mind and accept the stone sourced by the customer? maybe this is my ideology. but i found jewelers who hold their skills as "hostage" and try to swing customers to buy their less competitive stones, or even reject business when customers do not buy their stones, is it acceptable? i was rejected lately by a jeweler for not buying their stone and found it disheartening.

 

[kb1gra]

here it brings up a question: if a jeweler who truly has customers' best interest in heart and when their offering is not competitive enough compared to online vendors, shouldn't they keep customers' best interest in mind and accept the stone sourced by the customer? maybe this is my ideology. but i found jewelers who hold their skills as "hostage" and try to swing customers to buy their less competitive stones, or even reject business when customers do not buy their stones, is it acceptable? i was rejected lately by a jeweler for not buying their stone and found it disheartening.

No. If their insurance does not cover such an action, taking their customer's best interest to heart could be a very expensive mistake. Things happen in the course of altering jewelry and as pointed out above, a waiver doesn't protect the jeweler from having to defend their reputation.

 

[stonehunter20]

No. If their insurance does not cover such an action, taking their customer's best interest to heart could be a very expensive mistake. Things happen in the course of altering jewelry and as pointed out above, a waiver doesn't protect the jeweler from having to defend their reputation.

oh, forgot to mention, i was willing to get insurance in place before sending the stone to the jeweler.

 

[kb1gra]

oh, forgot to mention, i was willing to get insurance in place before sending the stone to the jeweler.

That puts their trust in your word and your insurer. Many private insurers will not insure loose stones and if they do, they specifically exclude the setting process as then they are insuring against the work of some unknown jeweler.

What would happen if you were to not file a claim, or have your claim denied? You would pursue the jeweler. Doesn't help you in the argument that the reputation cannot be insured.

 

[LLJsmom]

this is a very interesting topic. totally understand that from a jeweler's perspective, they want their cut by selling the stone. however, with so many reputable online vendors, with the same budget, i can find way better stones in all aspects compared to what i can find at jewelers', whose inventory is a lot more limited and more expensive.

here it brings up a question: if a jeweler who truly has customers' best interest in heart and when their offering is not competitive enough compared to online vendors, shouldn't they keep customers' best interest in mind and accept the stone sourced by the customer? maybe this is my ideology. but i found jewelers who hold their skills as "hostage" and try to swing customers to buy their less competitive stones, or even reject business when customers do not buy their stones, is it acceptable? i was rejected lately by a jeweler for not buying their stone and found it disheartening.

Like any other business, a jeweler has a right to accept or reject business. That's the essence of a free market society. I would just chalk it up to "not a good fit" and move on without another thought. There are plenty of great jewelers out there. You want to work with someone who wants to work with you right? Not because they grudgingly accept your business. And different vendors/companies have different business models and different tolerances. I've emailed vendors who never emailed me back. Oh well. Life goes on. Good luck and hope you found a jeweler who is a good fit.

 

[kenny]

They make a lot less profit.

I can't imagine why any business would dislike that.

 

[Eeveepenny]

They make a lot less profit.

I can't imagine why any business would dislike that.

I’m hoping to find someone that loves what they do and isn’t solely focused on big profit margins

 

[kb1gra]

I’m hoping to find someone that loves what they do and isn’t solely focused on big profit margins

working for free doesn't keep the bench lights on or food on the table.

margins on diamond sales are very thin in the age of internet price comparisons. I'm guessing there simply isn't enough money in the labor charges to make it worth the risk in most cases.

 

[Eeveepenny]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I emailed 6 jewellers in total and 1 replied saying they wouldn’t do it because they didn’t source the diamond, 4 replied with a quote and 1 didn’t reply at all. I’m pretty happy with that result, now to start on the ring design

 

[ls430FL]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I emailed 6 jewellers in total and 1 replied saying they wouldn’t do it because they didn’t source the diamond, 4 replied with a quote and 1 didn’t reply at all. I’m pretty happy with that result, now to start on the ring design

Disappointing that some didn't reply back. However in our current world I'm all for giving my business to someone who wants it. Looking forward to seeing the end result. I think this was mentioned but I alwyas just go in with the diamond or diamonds I picked out and say they were inherited. Never been turned away. Good luck!

 

[Eeveepenny]

So I have had a really varied response in terms of prices. I’m after a good quality hand made ring but the prices I have received have been (AUD) $2300, $2800, $3200, 2 x $3500, $3900 and $4200. I’m not sure how the prices can vary so much when they have all quoted on the exact same ring design. The quote is for a hand made platinum 2.1mm pave cathedral style 6 claws
with 18 melee diamonds.
I don’t want a poor quality ring but I also don’t think it’s necessary to pay almost double. Can anyone please offer some advice on approx how much a ring like this should cost?

 

[GliderPoss]

I've honestly no idea how much it should cost but that is quite a varied response! I'm guessing you are paying for differences in bench skill too ie, apprentice vs master craftsman

 

[Rockdiamond]

I’m hoping to find someone that loves what they do and isn’t solely focused on big profit margins

I totally get where you’re coming from. But let’s say a tradesman really loves what they do. Will their landlord discount the rent because of their passion?
Sometimes it’s exactly because of that passion that they need to protect the profitability associated with their trade.
Of course that’s not always the case but there’s plenty of really talented tradespeople that can’t do their job anymore because of drastic changes that left some very good jewelers without enough profit to keep the doors open.

 

[kb1gra]

So I have had a really varied response in terms of prices. I’m after a good quality hand made ring but the prices I have received have been (AUD) $2300, $2800, $3200, 2 x $3500, $3900 and $4200. I’m not sure how the prices can vary so much when they have all quoted on the exact same ring design. The quote is for a hand made platinum 2.1mm pave cathedral style 6 claws
with 18 melee diamonds.
I don’t want a poor quality ring but I also don’t think it’s necessary to pay almost double. Can anyone please offer some advice on approx how much a ring like this should cost?

what do you mean by "hand made?"

 

[Eeveepenny]

what do you mean by "hand made?"

Made in store by their bench

 

[Victor Canera]

This is a complicated question but I wanted to chime in anyway.

In my experience, when people work with boutique jewelers (not internationally recognized brands), the setting cost correlates to the the quality of the final product in most cases. This is especially true for a labor intensive design or one that’s really and truly hand made.

@Eeveepenny , I would recommend taking a look at the work of the vendors that gave you quotes. You should do this in person to inspect the quality of the product. I think it’s normal though to have a wide range of costs like this. You may be happy with the least expensive option but you should inspect the higher end options just to have a basis for comparison. So I’m not saying definitely always get the most expensive item. My opinion is that there is a reason most of the time that items are priced differently. Whether the additional cost is worth it will depend on your own cost to benefit equation which variese from person to person.

In first world countries there is a high cost of doing business. Those are things like your rent and fixed business costs. A jeweler has to make an X amount of profit to cover those costs and this varies a bit from business to business and country to country. How long would you like the jeweler to work on that ring? Is it 1 hour or is it 5 days? This could be the range between two different craftsmen for a very similar design depending on the type of manufacturing each one does and how long they take to perfect the item. I bet each vendor will price that item vastly different. The jeweler that spends many hours or even days on a single project will have to price that item extremely high not just to cover the amount of time spent (labor costs) but also on lost revenue he could have used by working on quicker projects OR he’ll require a center stone to be purchased with the setting in order to offset the lost revenue. Whose going to work on the project? Is it going to be an intern or a master craftsman who has 30 years experience creating world class jewelry? One craftsman will be compensated differently from the other. The pricing in most instances is not because they’re being unfair or greedy. It could be because every hour costs money to that business or it could be because of the different skillsets that each vendor offers. From my experience though the amount of time spent will be reflected on the finished product. A craftsman could absolutely love what he’s doing but if he doesn’t price his work appropriately, that business will fail very very soon. I’ve seen it happen many times in my career. especially in the high end of the business.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[Eeveepenny]

Victor Canera" data-source="post: 4789257" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

This is a complicated question but I wanted to chime in anyway.

In my experience, when people work with boutique jewelers (not internationally recognized brands), the setting cost correlates to the the quality of the final product in most cases. This is especially true for a labor intensive design or one that’s really and truly hand made.

@Eeveepenny , I would recommend taking a look at the work of the vendors that gave you quotes. You should do this in person to inspect the quality of the product. I think it’s normal though to have a wide range of costs like this. You may be happy with the least expensive option but you should inspect the higher end options just to have a basis for comparison. So I’m not saying definitely always get the most expensive item. My opinion is that there is a reason most of the time that items are priced differently. Whether the additional cost is worth it will depend on your own cost to benefit equation which variese from person to person.

In first world countries there is a high cost of doing business. Those are things like your rent and fixed business costs. A jeweler has to make an X amount of profit to cover those costs and this varies a bit from business to business and country to country. How long would you like the jeweler to work on that ring? Is it 1 hour or is it 5 days? This could be the range between two different craftsmen for a very similar design depending on the type of manufacturing each one does and how long they take to perfect the item. I bet each vendor will price that item vastly different. The jeweler that spends many hours or even days on a single project will have to price that item extremely high not just to cover the amount of time spent (labor costs) but also on lost revenue he could have used by working on quicker projects OR he’ll require a center stone to be purchased with the setting in order to offset the lost revenue. Whose going to work on the project? Is it going to be an intern or a master craftsman who has 30 years experience creating world class jewelry? One craftsman will be compensated differently from the other. The pricing in most instances is not because they’re being unfair or greedy. It could be because every hour costs money to that business or it could be because of the different skillsets that each vendor offers. From my experience though the amount of time spent will be reflected on the finished product. A craftsman could absolutely love what he’s doing but if he doesn’t price his work appropriately, that business will fail very very soon. I’ve seen it happen many times in my career. especially in the high end of the business.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

That’s a great explanation, thanks for the insight. The Jeweller that I want to go with because I like his quality the most from his previous work has quoted me $3500. I just didn’t want to choose someone that wasn’t charging my fairly. But your explanation helps a lot, thank you!