Divorce support/rant/whatever-you-need thread

[MakingTheGrade]

It's come up in various other threads that there are quite a few of us who are divorced or currently going through or contemplating divorce.

I thought I'd see if there was interest in a thread/group where we can chat about it without feeling we are thread jacking, being judged, or bringing others down (many are here to buy erings after all). I imagine many of us feel similarly in real life around real friends and colleagues too, and may not have a space to talk freely.

I guess I'll start. I'm 4 years post divorce after 10 years of being a couple. We engaged and married young and grew apart with age, and I'll admit most of that was me (I was much younger and so did more of the growing). We struggled and grew apart for awhile but I eventually decided our differences were not something that could be reconciled as they reflected fundamental differences in values. I realized I wanted a partner that celebrated the things about myself that I was most proud of, rather than just tolerate them. He's really a great guy, if I had any sort of conservative stay-at-home type friends to set him up with, I would in a heart beat. I sincerely hope he finds the right woman to live out his dream of a white picket fence, babies, and doing things the way "everyone else does it". But it can't be me, it isn't me. Luckily it was civil, and no kids involved so clean break.

I still find it super weird when I have dreams with him in it. And every now and then I'll have a flashback to a happy memory of us together and get teary. Even though it's been 4 years and I love my current life and SO.

Questions that people can maybe chime in:
1. Do the surprise memory attacks ever go away?
2. Do you still talk to your ex? If not, do you expect to someday?
3. Do you think getting divorced has altered your views on getting remarried?
4. Is anyone else's mom trying to talk them into freezing eggs?
5. Are you doing ok?

 

[PreRaphaelite]

I don't have any real answers but I just wanted to wish you peace for the past, and excitement for the future.

 

[missy]

@MakingTheGrade I don't have any personal real life experience with divorce but I have close friends who went through it and can share some of what I learned from them if it can be helpful to you at all.

1. Yes it gets easier with time.

2. The ones with kids obviously still talk with their exes but the majority of them who did not have kids together while cordial do not speak on any regular basis.

3. For the men they are more eager to get married because for the most part they enjoyed being married (unpleasant stuff notwithstanding) and want to get married again. The women are a bit more cautious but ultimately want to and most have already remarried. Generally if one finds the right person one wants to remarry because life is sweeter together than alone. No one can (usually) take the place of a spouse and friends are great but a spouse is different. More like an extension of who you are and under the best of circumstances you are a team together where joy shared is joy doubled and sadness shared is sadness halved.

4. LOL I'm sure. For most of my friends now however it is probably too late if they didn't already have kids.

5. Yes they are ALL doing great not just OK. A bad/unhappy relationship is much worse than being alone and in a bad marriage you are way more lonely and alone than when you are out of that bad relationship where being alone doesn't translate to being lonely. With time you heal and are ready to move on and find someone to share your life with.

Glad you are doing so well and have found a man worthy of your time and energy and love.

 

[ColinMartin]

@MakingTheGrade

1) While I never believed I could get over this, I woke up one day and the heartbreak had healed. Unexpectedly and out of nowhere. Took about 4 years after a 11 year marriage. Time heals when you least expect it. I love those popup memories. Keep those happy memories alive and celebrate them!

2) I talk to my ex on a regular basis because we have a son together. We have grown closer as we've matured and now respect each other greatly. We are now the people that we needed to be back then to have a successful marriage.

3) I said I would never get remarried after what happened, but in my maturity I realize how very beautiful commitment is with someone you love. The fears and uncertainty dissolve into hope and happiness. Yes, I am getting remarried after 15 years to the young lady in my profile pic.

4) I don't have any experience with the egg part.

5) I'm better than OK. I'm the best I can be. I actually called my ex up one day and thanked her for going through with the divorce because it made me the man I am today. I barely even remember the guy I used to be. I needed this to happen to push myself and my life forward. It was a blessing in disguise. I've never been happier and you will be too.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I don't have any real answers but I just wanted to wish you peace for the past, and excitement for the future.

Aw thanks. No worries though. I’m quite happy, and I initiated the divorce. Honestly the only loose thread is worrying about how he’s doing :/
I’m totally guilty of googling him from time to time.

 

[FancyLuckyLady]

I'm on the same boat, and feel the same way.. except, this is very recent for me, and I'm still struggling to go through with this, as it is still very fresh.
I wonder if he will be alright, and I wish he will be happier. It is not easy, but I know in time it will get better for both of us.

It's come up in various other threads that there are quite a few of us who are divorced or currently going through or contemplating divorce.

I thought I'd see if there was interest in a thread/group where we can chat about it without feeling we are thread jacking, being judged, or bringing others down (many are here to buy erings after all). I imagine many of us feel similarly in real life around real friends and colleagues too, and may not have a space to talk freely.

I guess I'll start. I'm 4 years post divorce after 10 years of being a couple. We engaged and married young and grew apart with age, and I'll admit most of that was me (I was much younger and so did more of the growing). We struggled and grew apart for awhile but I eventually decided our differences were not something that could be reconciled as they reflected fundamental differences in values. I realized I wanted a partner that celebrated the things about myself that I was most proud of, rather than just tolerate them. He's really a great guy, if I had any sort of conservative stay-at-home type friends to set him up with, I would in a heart beat. I sincerely hope he finds the right woman to live out his dream of a white picket fence, babies, and doing things the way "everyone else does it". But it can't be me, it isn't me. Luckily it was civil, and no kids involved so clean break.

I still find it super weird when I have dreams with him in it. And every now and then I'll have a flashback to a happy memory of us together and get teary. Even though it's been 4 years and I love my current life and SO.

Questions that people can maybe chime in:
1. Do the surprise memory attacks ever go away?
2. Do you still talk to your ex? If not, do you expect to someday?
3. Do you think getting divorced has altered your views on getting remarried?
4. Is anyone else's mom trying to talk them into freezing eggs?
5. Are you doing ok?

 

[LJsapphire]

Questions that people can maybe chime in:
1. Do the surprise memory attacks ever go away?
2. Do you still talk to your ex? If not, do you expect to someday?
3. Do you think getting divorced has altered your views on getting remarried?
4. Is anyone else's mom trying to talk them into freezing eggs?
5. Are you doing ok?

I'm 7 years divorced, we had been together for 10 years but didn't quite make it to 2 years of marriage. He was a serial cheat, mostly uncovered after the wedding. There had been "virtual" stuff before hand that I'd forgiven him for and then real life stuff afterwards. I'm suspicious if he didn't at least attempt to cheat on me before we were married also. We married at 29 (me) and 26 (him).
He lied to me throughout the last affair, I was pregnant. He said they were just friends. He got aggressive and abusive when challenged. I had the police out to him when he threw stuff at me and he was removed from the house, told to stay in a hotel but he had no money so he came home. I shouldn't have let him come back.
He started the divorce against me, using an online company (£300). I got a real solicitor and spent about £2500 making sure everything was covered, plus the settlement I paid him to leave the marital home.

1. I don't really have surprise memory attacks. I'm sometimes pretty bitter, especially over the lies and the fact that he blamed me. Our mutual friends are just his friends now, he probably painted me to be the bad guy. It really annoys me that nobody cares what he did. But I try to keep that inside and I just get on with it.

2. Yes we still talk for my son's sake. We are actually pretty amicable but in the early days he was still trying to control me. He was emotionally abusive when we were together. When I met my DF he realised what he was going to lose and he regretted it.

3. I want to get remarried, my DF is my upgrade and I want my wedding to be an upgrade and my new life to be an upgrade. My ex has been remarried for 5 years.

4. I'm 40 now. My DF doesn't want children, he says we are too old now (he wants to slow down as we age not be in our 50s with a teenager). I wanted another one. It's hard to take sometimes but we would have to cut back on nice things so that's what I'm telling myself. I wouldn't have a nice car if I had another child.

5. I'm doing better than I was before. He did me a favour.

 

[partgypsy]

1. Do the surprise memory attacks ever go away?
They are the most frequent the first couple months and years, going through the calendar. And for me, de-cluttering the house and going through things that reminded me of him and our past life. They are less frequent. I still have dreams with him, which are about our relationship and break up (themes of abandonment). So my brain is still processing things. Which is healthy.

2. Do you still talk to your ex? If not, do you expect to someday?
We have two kids together so yes talk on a regular basis. When I realized it was painful for him to be talking about his personal love life to me I asked him to stop. So we talk but it is about kids stuff, or his mother, etc. I don't really talk to him about personal stuff.

3. Do you think getting divorced has altered your views on getting remarried?
My views more have to do with being older with two kids who depend on me (emotionally, financially). I haven't completely ruled it out but I'm being pragmatic that I don't want to get married and potentially divorced if it will impact my kids in any negative way. I would love however to eventually have a relationship with someone we could live together and share a life.

4. Is anyone else's mom trying to talk them into freezing eggs?
don't have to worry about that!

5. Are you doing ok?
I think it depends on the day, but overall, yes. It will never be the same but it does get better.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I got divorced Dec of 2012 after being with my ex for 13 years. It was tough. Even though it was a nightmare of a marriage and I was relieved not to be legally bound to him I still remember weeping my entire divorce proceeding. It took me awhile to date again. I still have some PTSD from my marriage but as they say, time really does heal most wounds. I had two serious relationships since my divorce. The first last 13 months. He wasn't "the one" for so many reasons but he was so much better than my ex it took me awhile to realize I still deserved better. My current relationship has been 2+ years. We are engaged and I am pregnant. I like to share my story because he is AMAZING. I have never been happier or more in love. There is hope after divorce. I promise. You just have to sometimes be patient and stay true to yourself.
1. Do the surprise memory attacks ever go away?
They are few and far between but there was some serious stuff that happened in my marriage. I have flashbacks from time to time.
2. Do you still talk to your ex? If not, do you expect to someday?
Unfortunately I have to because we have a child together. If not, I would not speak with him. We have a civil relationship but will never be friends.
3. Do you think getting divorced has altered your views on getting remarried?
I never thought I would get married again. I think divorce jades most people. I remember going on a string of bad first dates thinking I would never find anyone I could get excited about again. My "training" relationship post divorce, pre my new forever, really helped me understand what I need and what I am NOT willing to accept. I am so excited to commit to my current partner. We have so much going on though it probably will not be until next Fall.
4. Is anyone else's mom trying to talk them into freezing eggs?
No...not a single person ever mentioned that. I am not sure your age but I am currently pregnant at 39.
5. Are you doing ok?
It took awhile. I uprooted my life completely. Moved with my daughter cross-country. Started a new career. I really had to rebuild my life. My divorce was 6.5 years ago. I am great and honestly probably started doing better a few years post-divorce. Take care of yourself. Listen to what you need. Be gentle. Be kind. Have hope. Life goes on and so will you.

 

[tigertales]

I don't have any real answers but I just wanted to wish you peace for the past, and excitement for the future.

That's a really, really good way to put it. I should needlepoint that.

 

[tigertales]

I divorced my Ex twice. It traumatized us both so much we needed each other to help get over it (but he still wouldn't change so...). Now, he comes over to mow the lawn, play with the dogs. I make him a sandwich. He's giving me an eternity ring soon. I think we're kind of nuts, actually.

 

[dk168]

No advice, just sharing my own experience.

I met my ex at work, different departments (we did work together in the same department for about a year), and we were together for 10 years, married for 7.

We grew apart, and I met someone else. He said at the time that he was glad I found someone who was able to make me happy as he was not able to do so.

He took care of handling the paperwork for the divorce, on the grounds that I committed adultery, and cost him/us next to nothing in money. I left the job, company and moved out of the area at the end of 2004, as it was too awkward and emotional to remain.

He let me take whatever I wished to take, let me keep the car. He kept the house where we lived and worked that he paid for, I kept my bachelor flat in London. There was no argument about who should have what, and I took the set of pans we bought for our marital home (his house) that I joked I would keep if we were to part (I did get him a replacement set so that he could continue to cook).

His family hated me, however they did not particularly liked me as I was not "their kind" as commented by his father everytime I went to visit his family (I am Chinese from HK, my ex is a native Brit). I know my ex stood up for me after I left him, that I was not the evil person my ex outlaws said I was.

My ex and I are still in good terms. We care for each other, like brother and sister. We communicate regularly, and I pay him a visit every 2-3 years or so.

When my late partner, the one I left my ex for, died suddenly of a canal boat accident in late 2008, my ex was the third person I rang after my mum and my best friend.

He also supported me when I was in financial difficulties.

He is a great gent, however, he was not able to provide the fireworks of life that I sought.

Whenever I hear about bitter and acrimonious parting of a couple, I would reflect on how lucky I was, in that my ex was, and still is, a generous and kind person with a big heart.

Hurting me is one of my very few regrets in life. Don't feel any pain as such, just upset to have hurt him to this day.

DK

 

[dk168]

We did not have any kids or fur babies. I don't like kids and he does not like cats or dogs.

I referred to him as my cat substitute, in that I would have had cats had I not met him first.

DK

 

[Tekate]

I often think of my ex husband, and occassionally dream about him. My dreams are always of him trying to get me back or put me down. I often think about why I stayed with him, what was wrong with me and my divorce is 31 years ago and we broke up 33 years ago. I met my ex at Fordham University freshman year and he was wonderful and great etc. He chased me for years and finally as senior year rolled around he started to pull back, I think that was when our college romance should have ended, I wish I had good self esteem them and I would have just said eff it, good luck bye! but being who I was then I held onto him like a life raft, he was my ticket to 'normal' and a better life. We married after 4.5 years of dating and we broke up 6 weeks shy of 10 years married, during that time he emotionally, morally, spiritually, and all ways possible and I took it and tried to make contort me to what he wanted: Cheryl Ladd, and I look like Kate Jackson if you can remember the 70s at all. So he cheated on me and I kicked him out and I remarried quickly and had a baby immediately, but I still get thoughts of him and continue to still muse about what a clusterf--k that was, I felt very angry for years afterward that I stayed with him. I can say in the very beginning of the breakup he said to me he was sorry that he emotionally abused me, he recognized he did that which was very freeing but me? I spent years in therapy trying to figure out what, why and where I was going.

The thing about divorce is that we lose our memories in a way, the good times (and there were were a few) were put behind as I built this wonderful life with my husband of now 32 years. I place the popup memories in a place where when I pull them out I go over why I married him etc. I highly recommend that people don't get married till 30 - 22 was too young.

 

[bling_dream19]

I still have pain and dreams but they are less year. I will be 5 years post divorce at the end of September. I am engaged as of Jan this year. I married young at 23 and we were married for 13 years. The story is very complicated and maybe one day I will share. I sometimes think about the life I would have with him if we were still together. Divorce is a wound that requires daily healing. I'm glad you all are here and my heart goes out to each of you and only you knew your marriage and only you know your divorce.

 

[missy]

I still have pain and dreams but they are less year. I will be 5 years post divorce at the end of September. I am engaged as of Jan this year. I married young at 23 and we were married for 13 years. The story is very complicated and maybe one day I will share. I sometimes think about the life I would have with him if we were still together. Divorce is a wound that requires daily healing. I'm glad you all are here and my heart goes out to each of you and only you knew your marriage and only you know your divorce.

Congrats on your engagement and upcoming marriage.
May the happiness and love and joy erase any pain and heartache you still feel. I am glad you are healing and doing well. Sending you (((hugs))) and love.

 

[bling_dream19]

Congrats on your engagement and upcoming marriage.
May the happiness and love and joy erase any pain and heartache you still feel. I am glad you are healing and doing well. Sending you (((hugs))) and love.

Thank you Missy I appreciate your kind words. I have to keep reminding myself it is all over and the life I'm living now is up to me. I have so much to be grateful for and I need to love with 100% of me. Thank you for the love and hugs, i am sending you the same. I know you are going through your toughest time. Stay strong and enjoy your days and icecream!

 

[MMtwo]

Hi MTG,
I divorced in 2000, remarried someone else in 2008. Divorced in 2010 ( long, sordid, heartbreaking story) and met my hubby in 2013. We married in 2016 and I am so happy. I am sure he is the perfect balance for me in almost every way. We make a good team.

Questions that people can maybe chime in:
1. Do the surprise memory attacks ever go away?
Eventually yes, after you work out the trauma and pain from the divorce. Counseling was very helpful to process the "long, sordid story" referred to above. Now, I only think of ex's possibly twice a year. Life left them behind in the scrapbook. Eventually, I moved in.
2. Do you still talk to your ex? If not, do you expect to someday?
Nope. No reason to. Our kids are grown up now. Funny though, I'm still facebook friends with his mother.
3. Do you think getting divorced has altered your views on getting remarried?
During the recovery time, sure. I spent cycles of bitter, angry, sad, lonely, hopeless. I had time that I doubted there were any "good men" left. Then I remembered the good men I knew and loved, like my father and my son. I knew they would never betray a person as my ex betrayed me. In time, I was able to build the ability to trust and meet people. The funny story is I met my husband when I gave up finding someone serious. My "right now" turned out to be Mr. Forever.
4. Is anyone else's mom trying to talk them into freezing eggs?
Mine are surely fossilized by now. I'm 54. As a Mom, I wouldn't even think of frozen eggs. If daughter needs to talk eggs, I'll leave that up to her.
5. Are you doing ok?
Lord yes, never ever happier. Life is sweet and balanced and restful. I am sitting beside my dorky best friend. There have been hard times, hard situations, but I realize looking back I have been blessed. I wouldn't want to go back through the pain, but I did learn I have innate balance and fierce tenacity to get through whatever life throws at me.

Hang in there, life is always writing a new chapter.

 

[Mrs_Strizzle]

I went.t thru a horrible divorce after 16 years married, 19 years together. The short version is it ended in restraining orders for myself and my oldest son against him, and many many days fearing I had lost my children and completely f@#$ed my life by chewing off my own leg to get out of the bear trap.

That said, I am now 3 years happily married to the man of my dreams (literally, he would appear in my dreams randomly over the years, known him since I was 11) and we are raising our 5 kids together, custody of all.

I do not talk directly to my ex, it is a group text usually between us, his wife, and my hubby. Usually it's her responding about their visitation. Man, she is stupid. We usually get a pretty good laugh.

I will admit I have caught myself about to call hubby the ex's name, but I try not to beat myself up about that. I was with him about half my life up to that point.

I had no pressure about babies, as I already had 3 and then married 2 more. I am covered up in little boys, some with my brown eyes, some with hubby's blue. Part of me wishes we could have one together, but physically impossible on both ends, and unrealistic for our future plans. But I often think of an unborn daughter with my dark hair and his aqua colored eyes.

As for am I ok, ABSOLUTELY. My family loves to talk about me being revived after divorce and finding true love. Hubby and I have been told more than once that we are "relationship goals." It hasn't been an easy road for me to learn what healthy love is, and not suffocating and controlling love. I will admit I almost sabotaged what I had by not realizing what healthy is, but thankfully hubby is patient and as amazing as he sounds!

 

[Crystal_Dreams]

I am not divorced. But some may be aware of my past relationship issues and a tumultuous marriage...

The long and short of it is he cheated and lied. I walked out. We decided to reconcile eventually, but it has been difficult, and has taken a long time to get to where we are now.

We are now about 20+ months down the road and I still suffer from intrusive thoughts and memories, though these have largely improved and I am able to handle them much better! Although I will never forget what has happened, I have hope that the day will come when such thoughts hold no power over me. I am getting there.

I consider my old marriage to be dead. He killed it with his lying and cowardice. One day perhaps, we will ‘remarry’ each other. But not yet. Our healing is approaching that phase, but it is not something I want to rush into. We are essentially moving towards that, in having purchased a house together this year, tentatively talking about kids (not quite ready yet!)

My main reason for commenting was actually to reply to the egg freezing question I did it after he blew up my life. It was a decision that I chose to make for myself. My mother was concerned about the effects of hormonal injections of all things. I knew that I wanted a family one day, and I felt like by doing what he did, he had stolen my chances of being able to have one. I knew that it wasn’t going to be possible for some time regardless of whether we divorced or not, and it gave me a sense of relief and control, that I was taking steps to try to preserve my fertility. Of course, it is no guarantee. But it was SOMETHING. Whilst feeling like I had lost everything I thought I knew, this little bit or control was something that was very important to me.

SO if you have any questions for me on the process etc, feel free to ask!

 

[GliderPoss]

*deep breath* Guess I'll jump in here....

Separated a a year ago, just recently filed for divorce. Nothing finalised as yet but soon I hope.

Together 13 years, no kids. We were having a rough year coupled with an international move. He had an affair and I found out from work colleague. Totally and utterly devastated.

Should have guessed? Yep probably, his behaviour was fairly off and he wouldn't go to counselling with me. I'm past the worst of the pain & heartache thankfully and we are attempting to stay amicable.

I've reverted to my maiden name, about to move town and have got a new job! #FRESHSTART

1. Do the surprise memory attacks ever go away? Not yet, especially as I'm still going through a lot of OUR stuff - lots of memories and tears.
2. Do you still talk to your ex? If not, do you expect to someday? Yes, we chat quite frequently.
3. Do you think getting divorced has altered your views on getting remarried? Yes. F*ck men quite frankly. I have zero trust right now.
4. Is anyone else's mom trying to talk them into freezing eggs? No thank god, although they feel hopefully i might still have a family but i think that ship has sailed as I'm 35.
5. Are you doing ok? Mostly yes, occasionally no but I'm so lucky to have great friends & family to support me.

 

[PreRaphaelite]

I’m sorry for what happened to you @GliderPoss - it’s totally understandable that you would have no interest in marrying again! Hopefully you will find love when you are ready again someday, and whether that means marriage or not, happiness is right around the corner when you least expect it.

Best wishes for comfort during such a time of huge change. Good on you, as the Ausies say, for taking the initiative and moving forward!

 

[Tekate]

@GliderPoss it would be great if you harvested some eggs, it wasn't around in my day after my divorce but today I would. You are ONLY 35, I had my first son at 35.. I am not pushing kids so much as saying you may want to consider it. Best of luck, peace and know that you are not alone.

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

It's so complicated... I lived 7.5 years long distance because he still had his youngest in the house and I didn't want to interfere with that relationship.... My father left us when I was 13, bad timing, and his new wife was intent on separating him from his kids, and succeeded.

When the time was right, according to him, I moved to SoCal, and things were great for a while. We married after 10 years together. After ending up in the hospital one night in 2015 with what I thought was a cardiac event, it was discovered that I had my first and only severe panic attack in the middle of the night, likely related to my responsibilities in a the law firm I managed owned by a Mormon bishop who was cheating on his wife and had installed his girlfriend in the office, amongst other improprieties.

That night, I decided to change my life and work with animals, my first and most primary joy. He pretended to be on board with the idea until I actually did it. My best friend, the man I had put my life on hold for long distance, for 7.5 years, and waited to be married to for 10 years, and agreeing to not having children with because he already had 3 grown children, turned on me. He told me I would fail and that I was wasting my time and money pursuing a new career path. He told me many other hurtful things as well, including the fact that the $10k he gave me towards my ER/WB set was a waste (I paid 1.5x more than that that for the final result), that I was using him, and that I had moved out here with the plan to use him.

Words mean a lot to me and I don't say things I don't mean, even in anger. The damage he did with those words is incalculable and I have found that I cannot forgive them. But not only did he damage with his words, he withdrew from me physically, emotionally, psychologically and mentally. I spent a year and a half trying to get through to him excitedly with my newfound knowledge and skills and was met with a dull and non-existent response, No support, no help, not even a listening ear.

Within a year of starting my business I was booked solid and succeeding beyond my expectations, only to learn that now my husband is envious of my success.

So now I live an empty existence next to the love of my life, who doesn't love or support me. And while I make great money, this is SoCal....the smallest of places is $500k. I want to leave but realize that if I start renting a place, at the prices of today's market, I will never be able to save enough to buy a property, and then I will be stuck because I will be paying someone else's mortgage instead of my own. My retirement is in jeopardy if I make the wrong move. As such, I am STUCK, and have no recourse. I stay and save for my future, or I go and f*k my future.

 

[Tekate]

Sounds like a narcissist. Sounds like he 'liked' the idea you were involved in a law firm rather than your working with 'animals' and good for you btw.. Living a loveless, sexless marriage (and I have done this for 9 out of 10 Years with my first husband) is very very detrimental to your inner well being SandyinAnaheim, how you feel about YOU is highly impacted. I urge you to find a therapist that you can work with, I found therapists sometimes stupid and on their own trajectory vs what I needed. But working with social workers often was what I needed.

You love him especially because you invested so much of SandyinA in this relationship. But he sounds like a mean guy, but usually mean guys are small minded.

SandyinA do you want a future with a man who belittles you to build himself up? I've seen you around these boards snce I came on board in 13 and you are a nice person. I can't make you leave him, but I can tell you your life WILL be better if you do..My ex loved to tell me I was fat when I was a size 10, he loved to point out that I only had a 2 year degree and I was from upstate and said "acrosst the street' instead of "across the street', I had VPL in my shorts, visible panty line (another shot at fat Kate), I didn't drive right, I was lazy, on and on... your husband is emotionally abusing you, just like me ex did, we allow this as women because we are fixers, we maintain, we try.. you can have a great life without him, but that is just my opinion, it's up to you, but one thing you should consider and throwing up boundries when he starts belittleing you and your choices, not challenging him but saying things like "husband, you've said this over and over but why do you think this?" I am happy, fufilled and love you, it probably won't work but you never know... He's probably out of the marriage in his head anyway, I apologize if that hurts you I am NOT trying to, but I've been there and done this.


I hope you and he can move into a more loving and happy relationship. I can read you love him and you have given up things in life to be with him. When my first husband and I were first married I looked into going to nursing school to become an RN (I was a secretary).. I wanted to work in the medical field but my ex said to me and I quote "I didn't marry you to put you through college" I was so hurt because I thought the two years in community college would ensure I had a better paying career and one much more fulfilling for me (his sister is a nurse) and would allow more flexibiity in our lives when we had a child, so he tells me that he thinks he doesn't want to have kids anymore.. (2 years AFTER he said he did and we were already married).. So I gave up having children with him, whatever to make him happy and happy with me.. never worked because the problems we had were his problems and my problem was growing up in a violent, emotionally neglected home with drugs and alcoholic parents, I was ripe for a narcissit for sure.


I meander, Please remember your worth and your promise in life and your happiness working with animals, remember YOU and life is short..

Best and warmest caring thoughts. Kate

It's so complicated... I lived 7.5 years long distance because he still had his youngest in the house and I didn't want to interfere with that relationship.... My father left us when I was 13, bad timing, and his new wife was intent on separating him from his kids, and succeeded.

When the time was right, according to him, I moved to SoCal, and things were great for a while. We married after 10 years together. After ending up in the hospital one night in 2015 with what I thought was a cardiac event, it was discovered that I had my first and only severe panic attack in the middle of the night, likely related to my responsibilities in a the law firm I managed owned by a Mormon bishop who was cheating on his wife and had installed his girlfriend in the office, amongst other improprieties.

That night, I decided to change my life and work with animals, my first and most primary joy. He pretended to be on board with the idea until I actually did it. My best friend, the man I had put my life on hold for long distance, for 7.5 years, and waited to be married to for 10 years, and agreeing to not having children with because he already had 3 grown children, turned on me. He told me I would fail and that I was wasting my time and money pursuing a new career path. He told me many other hurtful things as well, including the fact that the $10k he gave me towards my ER/WB set was a waste (I paid 1.5x more than that that for the final result), that I was using him, and that I had moved out here with the plan to use him.

Words mean a lot to me and I don't say things I don't mean, even in anger. The damage he did with those words is incalculable and I have found that I cannot forgive them. But not only did he damage with his words, he withdrew from me physically, emotionally, psychologically and mentally. I spent a year and a half trying to get through to him excitedly with my newfound knowledge and skills and was met with a dull and non-existent response, No support, no help, not even a listening ear.

Within a year of starting my business I was booked solid and succeeding beyond my expectations, only to learn that now my husband is envious of my success.

So now I live an empty existence next to the love of my life, who doesn't love or support me. And while I make great money, this is SoCal....the smallest of places is $500k. I want to leave but realize that if I start renting a place, at the prices of today's market, I will never be able to save enough to buy a property, and then I will be stuck because I will be paying someone else's mortgage instead of my own. My retirement is in jeopardy if I make the wrong move. As such, I am STUCK, and have no recourse. I stay and save for my future, or I go and f*k my future.

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

@Tekate, thank you so much for taking the time to write out such a thoughtful post. I really appreciate it as IRL there's no one to talk to about this issue.

Sounds like a narcissist. Sounds like he 'liked' the idea you were involved in a law firm rather than your working with 'animals' and good for you btw.. Living a loveless, sexless marriage (and I have done this for 9 out of 10 Years with my first husband) is very very detrimental to your inner well being SandyinAnaheim, how you feel about YOU is highly impacted. I urge you to find a therapist that you can work with, I found therapists sometimes stupid and on their own trajectory vs what I needed. But working with social workers often was what I needed.

Actually, he recently admitted that he comes from a "conservative family" and no one, including himself, would be so irresponsible as to switch careers so late in life, no matter HOW much they hated it. He resents my self-confidence and the independence he claimed to love about me. I would love to see a therapist but working 6 days a week, I have found it very difficult to find one that has a flexible schedule. I've been on my own since I was 15, and I was alone for 9 yrs before I met him, so I'm very comfortable with who I am and am keenly self-aware. His neglect and behavior hurt me in the sense that I trusted he would be there for me like I've always been there for him, but they have absolutely zero impact on how I feel about myself. There's nothing he can do or say to change what I know of my strengths after 38 years of fending for myself.

You love him especially because you invested so much of SandyinA in this relationship. But he sounds like a mean guy, but usually mean guys are small minded.

I LOVED him, he has killed off those tender feelings with his selfish and callous treatment. To me, love is like a plant....you give it a little warmth, you feed and water it, and it will thrive and grow. You leave that same plant out in the cold and fail to feed and water it, and it will slowly shrivel up and die. He is small-minded in that he is SO afraid of change ("conservative family"), it keeps him paralyzed. I've always known that about him and I accepted it as part of who he is, but that's HIS choice for HIS life. I have to make choices for me in MY LIFE that make sense to me, he doesn't have the right to dictate what's in my best interest or how my efforts to that end should be spent. It has no impact on him!! We have separate bank accounts and I paid for grooming school, I paid all my bills and overhead while doing it, I bought my van and didn't ask him for a nickel during all of it! What difference does it make to him that I switch careers?? I made more money than him before switching, and now I make even more than that, so it's not like there was a financial impact. It's his resentment of my ability to figure my way out of a bad situation and land on my feet, again...

SandyinA do you want a future with a man who belittles you to build himself up? I've seen you around these boards snce I came on board in 13 and you are a nice person. I can't make you leave him, but I can tell you your life WILL be better if you do..My ex loved to tell me I was fat when I was a size 10, he loved to point out that I only had a 2 year degree and I was from upstate and said "acrosst the street' instead of "across the street', I had VPL in my shorts, visible panty line (another shot at fat Kate), I didn't drive right, I was lazy, on and on... your husband is emotionally abusing you, just like me ex did, we allow this as women because we are fixers, we maintain, we try.. you can have a great life without him, but that is just my opinion, it's up to you, but one thing you should consider and throwing up boundries when he starts belittleing you and your choices, not challenging him but saying things like "husband, you've said this over and over but why do you think this?" I am happy, fufilled and love you, it probably won't work but you never know... He's probably out of the marriage in his head anyway, I apologize if that hurts you I am NOT trying to, but I've been there and done this.

Kate, I'm sorry your ex said such awful things to you and I agree with you that in general women are fixers and try to make things better. But there is no belittling going on here. I wouldn't tolerate that for a second. He stays mad and silent for months and then explodes and says things like I'm using him, and my ER/WB were a waste of money and that I will fail if I try something new. This is a different type of abuse, it's called stonewalling. According to Dr. Gottman, a marriage/divorce researcher and psychologist, there are four predictors to divorce. He calls them The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and they are criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling. He has the last two and I am now contemptuous of him. Nothing you have written has hurt me as I recognize the truth.

I hope you and he can move into a more loving and happy relationship. I can read you love him and you have given up things in life to be with him. When my first husband and I were first married I looked into going to nursing school to become an RN (I was a secretary).. I wanted to work in the medical field but my ex said to me and I quote "I didn't marry you to put you through college" I was so hurt because I thought the two years in community college would ensure I had a better paying career and one much more fulfilling for me (his sister is a nurse) and would allow more flexibiity in our lives when we had a child, so he tells me that he thinks he doesn't want to have kids anymore.. (2 years AFTER he said he did and we were already married).. So I gave up having children with him, whatever to make him happy and happy with me.. never worked because the problems we had were his problems and my problem was growing up in a violent, emotionally neglected home with drugs and alcoholic parents, I was ripe for a narcissist for sure.

This relationship cannot be repaired because he refuses to see a therapist and I have no hope of his changing and understanding the depths of the damage he has caused and refuses to admit or fix. He thinks words are meaningless and what he said shouldn't have had such an impact on me. But words are powerful to me and had he said them in anger, I might be more apt to understand that he was venting. But he was not angry, I was pressing him to tell me why he was so depressed and non-communicative for the past year, as I thought it had something to do with his parents passing a few years before and I wanted to help him. His statement that he felt I was using him wounded me to the core as in my entire life I have been used by many people, some that I allowed to use me, but I have NEVER once used anyone, for anything. I pride myself on not doing to others what has been done to me, and for him to think so low of me changed everything in that split-second the words were said, along with the other accusations.

It sounds like your ex was trying to control your future as well by not allowing you to grow beyond what you were at that time, but he didn't have the right to do that. Who said you needed him to put you through college? You can do that yourself, thank you very much. I accepted who he was, with all his baggage and all his poor personal decisions, but he doesn't want to accept me for who I am, fiercely independent and able to make my own decisions. He did the same thing to his ex-wife, stonewalling her and withdrawing himself from her, when she did things he did not approve of. However, she didn't have my strength or certainty of self and ended up a severe alcoholic that committed suicide after the divorce. That's just not an option in my case. I just want to get out.

I meander, Please remember your worth and your promise in life and your happiness working with animals, remember YOU and life is short..

Best and warmest caring thoughts. Kate

Thank you dear Kate for your thoughtful comments. I am just in a different position than I've ever been in my life because I'm no longer in my 20s or 30s. Back then if something wasn't working I would just pick up my stuff and take off. But now that I'm in my 50s, I realize that my current and future decisions WILL affect the outcome of my future as I no longer have the luxury of time on my side. I have the money that I could leave today if I had to, but then the security of my future and retirement will be jeopardized. This is a brand new situation for me where after 3 years of spinning this problem around and around in my head, I can't find the way out without additional funds. That's why I work 60-70 hours a week and am saving every penny that I can, so that the moment that something pops that I can afford, I AM OUT.

 

[Tekate]

What a great post Sandy! you made my day. You are taking care of you, no more needs to be said there. Since you were so independent your whole young and adult life you can live through this till something pops up you can afford. I so admire you.. For me, I recognize now that I came from a position of weakness and kept trying to please him and make him love me.. I read your post 2x.. I hope you can somehow keep me in your circle as to how things progress because they will and you have your head up high, your belief in yourself totally intact that is so wonderful. Conservative? bah, unable to change? yup.. Change has always been my friend, it didn't seem so at the time but looking back I always came out better.. Men and women should be equal (not totally equal in all but maybe more like 100% each in the relationship), we should try to understand, bend and give, so effing hard to do.. I wish you great happiness and peace in your life Sandy, we, as women are better for every curve and rock and hole in the road of life.. Sending you a hug and respect. Kate

@Tekate, thank you so much for taking the time to write out such a thoughtful post. I really appreciate it as IRL there's no one to talk to about this issue.


Actually, he recently admitted that he comes from a "conservative family" and no one, including himself, would be so irresponsible as to switch careers so late in life, no matter HOW much they hated it. He resents my self-confidence and the independence he claimed to love about me. I would love to see a therapist but working 6 days a week, I have found it very difficult to find one that has a flexible schedule. I've been on my own since I was 15, and I was alone for 9 yrs before I met him, so I'm very comfortable with who I am and am keenly self-aware. His neglect and behavior hurt me in the sense that I trusted he would be there for me like I've always been there for him, but they have absolutely zero impact on how I feel about myself. There's nothing he can do or say to change what I know of my strengths after 38 years of fending for myself.


I LOVED him, he has killed off those tender feelings with his selfish and callous treatment. To me, love is like a plant....you give it a little warmth, you feed and water it, and it will thrive and grow. You leave that same plant out in the cold and fail to feed and water it, and it will slowly shrivel up and die. He is small-minded in that he is SO afraid of change ("conservative family"), it keeps him paralyzed. I've always known that about him and I accepted it as part of who he is, but that's HIS choice for HIS life. I have to make choices for me in MY LIFE that make sense to me, he doesn't have the right to dictate what's in my best interest or how my efforts to that end should be spent. It has no impact on him!! We have separate bank accounts and I paid for grooming school, I paid all my bills and overhead while doing it, I bought my van and didn't ask him for a nickel during all of it! What difference does it make to him that I switch careers?? I made more money than him before switching, and now I make even more than that, so it's not like there was a financial impact. It's his resentment of my ability to figure my way out of a bad situation and land on my feet, again...


Kate, I'm sorry your ex said such awful things to you and I agree with you that in general women are fixers and try to make things better. But there is no belittling going on here. I wouldn't tolerate that for a second. He stays mad and silent for months and then explodes and says things like I'm using him, and my ER/WB were a waste of money and that I will fail if I try something new. This is a different type of abuse, it's called stonewalling. According to Dr. Gottman, a marriage/divorce researcher and psychologist, there are four predictors to divorce. He calls them The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and they are criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling. He has the last two and I am now contemptuous of him. Nothing you have written has hurt me as I recognize the truth.


This relationship cannot be repaired because he refuses to see a therapist and I have no hope of his changing and understanding the depths of the damage he has caused and refuses to admit or fix. He thinks words are meaningless and what he said shouldn't have had such an impact on me. But words are powerful to me and had he said them in anger, I might be more apt to understand that he was venting. But he was not angry, I was pressing him to tell me why he was so depressed and non-communicative for the past year, as I thought it had something to do with his parents passing a few years before and I wanted to help him. His statement that he felt I was using him wounded me to the core as in my entire life I have been used by many people, some that I allowed to use me, but I have NEVER once used anyone, for anything. I pride myself on not doing to others what has been done to me, and for him to think so low of me changed everything in that split-second the words were said, along with the other accusations.

It sounds like your ex was trying to control your future as well by not allowing you to grow beyond what you were at that time, but he didn't have the right to do that. Who said you needed him to put you through college? You can do that yourself, thank you very much. I accepted who he was, with all his baggage and all his poor personal decisions, but he doesn't want to accept me for who I am, fiercely independent and able to make my own decisions. He did the same thing to his ex-wife, stonewalling her and withdrawing himself from her, when she did things he did not approve of. However, she didn't have my strength or certainty of self and ended up a severe alcoholic that committed suicide after the divorce. That's just not an option in my case. I just want to get out.



Thank you dear Kate for your thoughtful comments. I am just in a different position than I've ever been in my life because I'm no longer in my 20s or 30s. Back then if something wasn't working I would just pick up my stuff and take off. But now that I'm in my 50s, I realize that my current and future decisions WILL affect the outcome of my future as I no longer have the luxury of time on my side. I have the money that I could leave today if I had to, but then the security of my future and retirement will be jeopardized. This is a brand new situation for me where after 3 years of spinning this problem around and around in my head, I can't find the way out without additional funds. That's why I work 60-70 hours a week and am saving every penny that I can, so that the moment that something pops that I can afford, I AM OUT.

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

Dearest Kate, thank you for your kind words and sentiments. You are right, I can and will live through this, I just don't have to like it, and regret the 15 years I wasted on this failure I gave everything to. This change could take several years till the stars align and the time is right. When I saw this thread to vent, I thought yes, this could be a silent outlet.

I would love to understand why you felt you were in "a position of weakness and kept trying to please him and make him love me." If you'd like to reach me offline, I am my handle at yahoo. I welcome change, like you. I find it a chance to grow and reinvent myself. I've moved across the country several times in my life and I've loved every single time. I learn so much and gain such a sense of accomplishment that I can make things happen anywhere I go. Those experiences were opportunities for growth.

Men and women should be equal (not totally equal in all but maybe more like 100% each in the relationship), we should try to understand, bend and give, so effing hard to do..

I agree with this. It's just that for some reason, in a lot of relationships there are power plays under the surface. And sometimes, you don't know until you are DEEP IN. Personally, I am a non-manipulative person, so I struggle to comprehend what others are getting out of being manipulative that would be worth being that way. I do understand, bend and give, but only as long as the recipient is doing the same. When I feel it is out of balance for too long, I bring it up. In this instance, I was flexible with my time and my life for him because he was still raising his youngest son and I didn't want to interfere with that relationship, after it had been done to me. When it came time for him to be understanding and flexible for me, it wasn't there. That is an imbalance, and he doesn't see it. I will only say things a time or three before I give up. It's not my job to fix him, and Lord knows his ex tried and failed for over 20 years.

Hugs and respect back at you Kate.

 

[Tekate]

@SandyinAnaheim Whoa, let me tell you, when I got divorced and started on my happy life at essentially 34 (we separated at 32)... I spent quite a lot of time being angry that I tried so hard and stayed so long! boy do I hear myself when you said you too had that feeling..

Sandy, I did not have good self awareness of strength, when I started dating my exhusband, I was 18 and I came from a home that did not encourage me and support me, when I think of it today I think my mom was so freaked out by my sister being deathly ill at age 4 and I was 2 that my mom lost the ability to love, my sister was really a wonderful child, she was beautiful, she was smart and she was very even keeled, I was none of those things in my mom's eyes and things she said, you couple that with a father who was absent in all ways, and alcoholism and drugs and you get a kid who have no source of strength about 'me'. Now one thing I had was strength in loving my brothers and my sister and I protected them. But dating guys I was very subservient and catering as I thought that they would love me basically that is it.. I thought my ex was a genius (he was smart) and socially he was of a higher class, and I thought he was the center of the universe and I was so lucky to have a schmuck like him marry me.. his treatment of me was very mean, very abusive and I took it because it was BAU in my life.. now my mother found AA and became a great mom when I was 22 and she was supportive during my 10 years of misery, but damage done, my mother tried very very very hard to be good to me after she got sober. She tried hard to make amends. But she never understood me either she and my sister were two peas in a pod.. you add in my mom's late in life sister who was 20 years younger than my mom and 3 years older than my sister and she was just like my mom and sister and then me. I dont think any of them ever understood me. but we were a family.

I read in your post that you possess the strength that I missed, and you don't 'need' your husband, you don't need to try and make him love you, you just know it's a business relationship.. he may not or not care etc. but you are looking out for YOU, I spent so much time trying to make my ex love me... wasted... but I am here today..

I think your husband likes status and control, he cannot see that your flexibility and caring was a give from you, you gave that flexibility becaused you loved him, not because you needed him, I sound rote but I find men often expect 'giving' from their spouse.. or maybe you didn't give to get but gave your time and love not out of "I need a guy' but love..

I think I am more of a throwback to th 50s and 60s woman back then, I thought I wasn't complete, or worthwhile without a husband, and you know what? it wasn't true.

Nope Nope it's not your job to fix him or change him or cater to him, its a relationship. So I admire this about you very much, took me forever to place Kate in the forefront (aside from my kids who are adults now and have lives they are living).. I parse my life through my parser it's called "Does this make me happy" too much giving is exhausting and tiring and depressing.. So Sandy, your posts sound to me like you have a Great Sandy parser and your future is very important to YOU, you see a future without needing a husband.. to me that is one of the greatest things to come out of the 50s-80s womens lib movement, putting ourselves as just as important as our jobs, kids, dogs/cats, parents, friends etc.. equal.. I hope I am making sense... You should concern yourself with your retirement and future, if being in this marriage helps your goals then that's great.. it's taking care of Sandy ....

I admire you and respect you as I said .. You left a very lucrative and secure job to follow your star/karma/love/whatever one calls it, and not only were you personally happier, financially it worked too.. that's a win - win...

sending you respect Sandy and huge hugs for being a good woman.

Kate

 

[cmd2014]

Can I revive this thread? It has become painfully clear over the past week that this is the path I am on. My husband has not been at home since the beginning of May, but it wasn't until Wednesday of this week that he finally admitted that he wasn't intending to come home. First it was a business trip, then he delayed returning home due to a meeting that had gotten rescheduled, then he delayed again (another alleged meeting), then he said that "he needed space" and elected to do his mandatory two week quarantine in an air bnb (all along I had been asking him what his plan was for that as our house is not well set up for this, and this was something he announced to me in the middle of the day while I was at work, at a time when he was supposed to have been on his flight home, but clearly wasn't). Although we were still talking about going to marriage therapy and working it out after he came home, he has since told me (again, only when directly asked) that he is not coming home. I had to ask as it was the last day he had on the rental and I still hadn't heard from him what he wanted to do. So now I know that he intends to find an apartment and separate and is already well on his way to planning for his happy life without me. He is excited about finding an apartment, he is excited to think about what he might eventually buy for himself once the division of assets we have in the house is settled, he is talking about the hobbies that he hopes to rekindle after I am gone (because somehow in his mind I prevented him from doing those things), and I just found out by accident yesterday that there are plans for a reunion with his family on Sunday for his parent's birthdays and father's day that he has not mentioned to me, so clearly he does not want me there (we haven't seen his parents since March and they don't know that we are not together). I'm heartbroken. I feel like my whole life has been ripped out from under me and I never even got the chance to have a say in it.