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Did I make a mistake purchasing this diamond?

Brittanyann4207

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
29
My husband and I decided to upgrade my diamond. My old stone was a .73 G SI2 GIA and the new one is 1.44 G VS2 EGL. I know EGL is not as strict as GIA, so that’s another concern. I looked at a lot of diamonds (both EGL and GIA) and this EGL one stood out to me the most. I looked at it in natural light, sunlight, and artificial light and it was very beautiful with little to no flaws with the naked eye. But then when looking at it on paperwork it is very average. It has good symmetry and polish and I’m assuming overall cut grade of good as well. I know a “good” cut grade is in reality not that good, so now I’m nervous. It was graded back in 2009, and I’ve been told as well as read online that grading was much more strict back in the day then it is today. Maybe I’m wrong, I’m not sure. I just want someone who is educated to give me their advice and opinion on this. We paid a total of $7200 cash in addition to trading in my old diamond. So in total $8900 if you add the credit of the old diamond to the tab.

I do not need the best of the best quality diamond. I’m not here to break the bank but I also don’t want to have a crappy diamond for the next 20 years either. I’m adding pictures for you to see what it looks like in different lighting as well the certification. The photo with 2 hands is a before and after of the upgrade.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback! C206BCB4-31B2-4AD8-AA7D-253661ADBB2C.jpeg 3C1FCC0D-03F1-4775-812E-CD48180B0F5F.jpeg 241734EB-BA89-4BBE-B0F1-E51870529A66.jpeg 0D0BE070-6200-4145-B1CA-47663322CAD1.jpeg 6535ADF5-C810-431E-9276-E7F4008841D9.jpeg 58FBBB6A-4F88-45B0-BE98-DB92E20D201F.jpeg 20F59DF8-8E4D-452E-B366-3800A959F073.jpeg 2D2501E7-A8A5-48F4-8562-985C81A34BD7.jpeg
 

Brittanyann4207

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
29
Correction on the price of what we paid.

New diamond: $6950
Old diamond: $1700
Labor: $250

For a total of $8900

Doesn’t include my setting that my husband bought years ago. This pricing is strictly just the diamond.
 

PintoBean

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
6,584
What's the return policy?
What I would normally recommend is to have the stone inspected by an independent appraiser within the return period so that you are assured that what you are paying for is what you are getting.
 

Brittanyann4207

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
29
What's the return policy?
What I would normally recommend is to have the stone inspected by an independent appraiser within the return period so that you are assured that what you are paying for is what you are getting.
The lady who we work with is wonderful and I have a 30 day window with full money back guarantee. I’m not worried about that at all. She’s been working with our family for years.

So my question is, can I get it looked at while it’s in my setting?
 

twosanguinehearts

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
219
I think you have to decide what’s most important to you. Is it worth paying a bit more for an ideal cut stone to put your mind at ease? For me, cut is by far the most important element since that is ultimately what maximizes performance. If I were buying a round brilliant, I’d buy an ACA from Whiteflash since they’re some of the best cut stones available, and they have an amazing upgrade program.

All of that said, this new stone looks like a definite upgrade from the original - the size is perfect for your setting and I think it looks brighter and more lively from what I can tell in the photos. If that’s all you’re looking for, that’s great. If it’s going to bother you knowing that the stone could have a better cut, I’d definitely suggest holding out until you find something that you won’t have any doubts about!
 

PintoBean

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
6,584
The lady who we work with is wonderful and I have a 30 day window with full money back guarantee. I’m not worried about that at all. She’s been working with our family for years.

So my question is, can I get it looked at while it’s in my setting?
Absolutely. Go to the resources tab to see what appraisers are local to you.

You want to know that what you bought is along the lines of the market and that you didn't overpay for starters. That should ease your mind.
 

AllAboardTheBlingTrain

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
599
So I did a bit of maths to calculate what the crown angle and pavillion angle of your diamond would be, out of curiosity. I don’t know if it’s super accurate (I used the guidelines from a website online) and I got a crown angle of 37.44 and pav angle of 40.56.

So this is not a diamond that fits the Tolkowsky ideal by any means (though the larger table would also give that away).

Now, checking the PS database for pricing for a 3X/AGS0 G VS2 1.4-1.5ct diamond that still meets HCA<2 (a diamond that has a high chance of meeting Tolkowsky proportions) gets you a price range of $8935-$13,528 (virtual inventory). If I change the filters to look only at HCA Good-Poor the price range is around $8361-$9672. All the stones in this range that I checked at least, were in the GIA Ex/VG category.

I think now that you have this information, it’s up to you to do what you want with it, and I second the recommendation for a professional appraiser who will be able to tell you whether you overpaid and by how much. The EGL certificate I believe trades at a bit of a discount to the GIA.

If you like the look of the diamond, there’s nothing wrong in seeking out this look. You should buy diamonds with your eyes, after all, and an HCA score is not the sole determinant of a diamond’s beauty. You might be drawn to this large-tabled look! There is no rule that says Tolkowsky ideals are the only worthwhile diamond cut. But, there is value in determining whether you paid a fair price for it or not. I don’t want to make any judgments on value per se, so I’ll leave that up to you to decide.
 

AllAboardTheBlingTrain

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
599
I just realised I forgot to actually comment on the diamond :wall: to my eye, it looks bright and sparkly and fits the setting wonderfully! So if you love it, I wouldn’t change the diamond or the look of the diamond for something you might not love as much, if you’ve seen so many other diamonds and this one spoke to you, then that has value. Ultimately, you have to wear the ring, so you should love how it looks on your hand.

Also something I realised I didn’t stress upon enough in my earlier post is that there are different “flavours” of diamond cut and what matters is what you like, personally. I, for example, like a 60-60 type of look because I like white light return and increased spread more than fire. So the fact that your diamond doesn’t fit this one narrow set of proportions that are currently considered a gold standard doesn’t make it a bad diamond at all. What determines if it’s a good or bad diamond is your own eye.

For me, I just like to make sure I’m getting a good deal, so I’d want to know what price I should be paying for that stone, not changing out that stone. If your jeweler has a storefront, they’re going to charge a bit of a markup because of increased overheads, I’m fine with paying that. I just don’t want to overpay by a LOT.
 

Kaycee2018

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
687
It is a sizable diamond and has a presence, but EGL is not known to be a reputable lab and the proportions are not very good. A table of 65% is extremely large and likely to result in darkness under the table when viewing the diamond in some (if not most) lighting. You say this EGL stood out to you over the GIA graded diamonds, but there are plenty of GIA graded diamonds with poor cuts too and if you only viewed the diamonds under jewelry store lighting, you should know that diamonds perform much differently under normal, every day lighting vs. jewelry store lighting (which is designed to make all diamond sparkle like crazy and look great). So it is not an accurate representation of how diamonds look IRL. If you are within the return period, I would recommend returning and looking for a GIA or AGS graded diamond to start. From there, run the proportions through the HCA calculator (under the Tools dropdown at the top of the page). If it scores 2 or less (sometimes up to 2.5), request advanced images of the diamond (Hearts & Arrows, ASET, and IS). Then post the lab report, close up and clear photos and/or videos, and any advanced images you were provided here for advice. Alternatively, request a refund and post your budget and size, color, clarity preferences and ask for suggestions. GL

ETA: I just re-read your post and saw that you compared the diamonds under different lighting and this one spoke to you the most. If that is the case and you are happy with it, then you didn't make a mistake. But the fact that you are questioning it and are within the return period, seems like you should consider exploring other options.
 
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mommylawyer

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
235
I'm not a diamond expert, but a quick search on Blue Nile tells me that you paid a fair price for your diamond. I am including a link below. The clarity on the Blue Nile stone is better, but the price is much higher. In my opinion, it's important to see the stone in person. If you can't see the stone in person, that's when it's important to use the numbers. I'm not saying that you shouldn't return your diamond and get one with a better cut. It's great to have all this excellent information from the experts on Pricescope. But if you like the stone you have, maybe you should keep it. That's what I would do.

I would like to mention one other thing. Your new ring is stunning. I love the halo. Some super ideal cuts go dark in direct lighting, and a halo makes this phenomenon extremely noticeable. I have a super ideal cut diamond with a halo, and I feel uncomfortable at parties under direct lighting because my diamond goes dark but the halo stays white. Just something to consider.

 

Brittanyann4207

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
29
I think you have to decide what’s most important to you. Is it worth paying a bit more for an ideal cut stone to put your mind at ease? For me, cut is by far the most important element since that is ultimately what maximizes performance. If I were buying a round brilliant, I’d buy an ACA from Whiteflash since they’re some of the best cut stones available, and they have an amazing upgrade program.

All of that said, this new stone looks like a definite upgrade from the original - the size is perfect for your setting and I think it looks brighter and more lively from what I can tell in the photos. If that’s all you’re looking for, that’s great. If it’s going to bother you knowing that the stone could have a better cut, I’d definitely suggest holding out until you find something that you won’t have any doubts about!
Thank you so much for you advice!! You’re right, I need to figure what what’s most important to me! I think I’m just torn right now because I do know stats are very important too
 

Brittanyann4207

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
29
Absolutely. Go to the resources tab to see what appraisers are local to you.

You want to know that what you bought is along the lines of the market and that you didn't overpay for starters. That should ease your mind.
Couldn’t agree more. That was a big concern of mine. May not be the best stone but did we pay average Stone pricing? I will looking into an appraisal for sure. Thank you!
 

Brittanyann4207

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
29
I just realised I forgot to actually comment on the diamond :wall: to my eye, it looks bright and sparkly and fits the setting wonderfully! So if you love it, I wouldn’t change the diamond or the look of the diamond for something you might not love as much, if you’ve seen so many other diamonds and this one spoke to you, then that has value. Ultimately, you have to wear the ring, so you should love how it looks on your hand.

Also something I realised I didn’t stress upon enough in my earlier post is that there are different “flavours” of diamond cut and what matters is what you like, personally. I, for example, like a 60-60 type of look because I like white light return and increased spread more than fire. So the fact that your diamond doesn’t fit this one narrow set of proportions that are currently considered a gold standard doesn’t make it a bad diamond at all. What determines if it’s a good or bad diamond is your own eye.

For me, I just like to make sure I’m getting a good deal, so I’d want to know what price I should be paying for that stone, not changing out that stone. If your jeweler has a storefront, they’re going to charge a bit of a markup because of increased overheads, I’m fine with paying that. I just don’t want to overpay by a LOT.
Yes I got your same calculations after trying to figure out how to convert percentages to degrees. Now that I’m really looking at it in serious depth I do a notice a very slight darkness in the center but not a ton. I have to move my hand around to see even it.
Like a few other people have said, it looks really good in the photos but just doesn’t necessarily check out on paper.

But I totally agree with you that I just need to make sure I didn’t overpay for that quality of diamond. I didn’t know much about diamonds Other than size color and clarity until a couple days ago. I started doing research on how important cut grade is to its overall performance. So then when I went to look at the numbers for this diamond I thought I loved, it was actually not the greatest diamond after all. I’m really good at finding inclusions with the naked eye, and this one was the absolute cleanest out of the all the diamonds we looked at. And on top of that sparkled pretty much the same in different lighting like the other better cut diamonds. So I’m really torn right now!!
 

elizat

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
2,045
I would just take a look at the pricing as others have suggested. If it is in line with what you ultimately paid, with the added slight premium for using a retail vendor with point of service sales and local service, which does have a value, and you are happy, I would leave it alone! It looks very nice with your setting and I would not start obsessing over the angles of the stone, unless you find that you significantly overpaid. You have to like what you see with your eyes!
 

Brittanyann4207

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
29
It is a sizable diamond and has a presence, but EGL is not known to be a reputable lab and the proportions are not very good. A table of 65% is extremely large and likely to result in darkness under the table when viewing the diamond in some (if not most) lighting. You say this EGL stood out to you over the GIA graded diamonds, but there are plenty of GIA graded diamonds with poor cuts too and if you only viewed the diamonds under jewelry store lighting, you should know that diamonds perform much differently under normal, every day lighting vs. jewelry store lighting (which is designed to make all diamond sparkle like crazy and look great). So it is not an accurate representation of how diamonds look IRL. If you are within the return period, I would recommend returning and looking for a GIA or AGS graded diamond to start. From there, run the proportions through the HCA calculator (under the Tools dropdown at the top of the page). If it scores 2 or less (sometimes up to 2.5), request advanced images of the diamond (Hearts & Arrows, ASET, and IS). Then post the lab report, close up and clear photos and/or videos, and any advanced images you were provided here for advice. Alternatively, request a refund and post your budget and size, color, clarity preferences and ask for suggestions. GL

ETA: I just re-read your post and saw that you compared the diamonds under different lighting and this one spoke to you the most. If that is the case and you are happy with it, then you didn't make a mistake. But the fact that you are questioning it and are within the return period, seems like you should consider exploring other options.
Yes I definitely agree with everything you’re are saying. I didn’t know much about diamonds other than color clarity and size. So now that I’m realizing how important cut grade and proportions are to overall performance I may consider returning it. I’m keeping this diamond for a very long time so I need to make sure it’s the right now. I also don’t want to go much higher in price so that may be a problem when converting to GIA in this size as well as uping the cut grade.
 

Brittanyann4207

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
29
I would just take a look at the pricing as others have suggested. If it is in line with what you ultimately paid, with the added slight premium for using a retail vendor with point of service sales and local service, which does have a value, and you are happy, I would leave it alone! It looks very nice with your setting and I would not start obsessing over the angles of the stone, unless you find that you significantly overpaid. You have to like what you see with your eyes!
Exactly what my husband and family have been telling me! I’m definitely going to have an appraiser look at it because like you said as long as you didn’t overpay. I just need to remind myself that I fell in love with the diamond via my eye and not it’s numbers.

I do notice a very slight darkness in the middle when I turn my hand a certain way and that’s probably due to its cut and proportions. It definitely doesn’t have “the fire” like some people want but it definitely seems to reflect white light well. I’m torn!
 

Brittanyann4207

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
29
I'm not a diamond expert, but a quick search on Blue Nile tells me that you paid a fair price for your diamond. I am including a link below. The clarity on the Blue Nile stone is better, but the price is much higher. In my opinion, it's important to see the stone in person. If you can't see the stone in person, that's when it's important to use the numbers. I'm not saying that you shouldn't return your diamond and get one with a better cut. It's great to have all this excellent information from the experts on Pricescope. But if you like the stone you have, maybe you should keep it. That's what I would do.

I would like to mention one other thing. Your new ring is stunning. I love the halo. Some super ideal cuts go dark in direct lighting, and a halo makes this phenomenon extremely noticeable. I have a super ideal cut diamond with a halo, and I feel uncomfortable at parties under direct lighting because my diamond goes dark but the halo stays white. Just something to consider.

Thank you so much! I really love how it turned out with the new size diamond. It fits the setting really well. I’m just so torn on what to do. I know she has some better diamonds but they aren’t as big and much more expensive. Which I also know bigger carat doesn’t make it better. That’s really interesting to hear about your diamond, and makes me feel better. My diamond does go a little dark in sunlight compared to the rest of my ring. It shines really well indoors, much better than my original diamond that is for sure. I would just think that based on the cut grade and proportion sizes that my diamond should look worse than it does. I’m no expert either!
 

Kaycee2018

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
687
Yes I definitely agree with everything you’re are saying. I didn’t know much about diamonds other than color clarity and size. So now that I’m realizing how important cut grade and proportions are to overall performance I may consider returning it. I’m keeping this diamond for a very long time so I need to make sure it’s the right now. I also don’t want to go much higher in price so that may be a problem when converting to GIA in this size as well as uping the cut grade.
Keep in mind your diamond was graded as a G color by EGL, so it is probably more like a H or I color per GIA standards. So if you are ok with the color of your diamond, if you decide to move forward you can look at GIA graded H and I color grades for cost savings without likely seeing any detectable color difference. GL!
 

mommylawyer

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
235
Thank you so much! I really love how it turned out with the new size diamond. It fits the setting really well. I’m just so torn on what to do. I know she has some better diamonds but they aren’t as big and much more expensive. Which I also know bigger carat doesn’t make it better. That’s really interesting to hear about your diamond, and makes me feel better. My diamond does go a little dark in sunlight compared to the rest of my ring. It shines really well indoors, much better than my original diamond that is for sure. I would just think that based on the cut grade and proportion sizes that my diamond should look worse than it does. I’m no expert either!
Oh, that's funny. The numbers are doing you wrong, but the diamond is doing you right. Maybe put the papers in a drawer and enjoy the gorgeous diamond on your hand. Personally, I like my diamonds the way I like my people, a little bit flawed. I think it's endearing.
 

Brittanyann4207

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
29
Oh, that's funny. The numbers are doing you wrong, but the diamond is doing you right. Maybe put the papers in a drawer and enjoy the gorgeous diamond on your hand. Personally, I like my diamonds the way I like my people, a little bit flawed. I think it's endearing.
What a way to look at it! I so needed to hear that! Thank you so much. Truly!
 

Brittanyann4207

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
29
Keep in mind your diamond was graded as a G color by EGL, so it is probably more like a H or I color per GIA standards. So if you are ok with the color of your diamond, if you decide to move forward you can look at GIA graded H and I color grades for cost savings without likely seeing any detectable color difference. GL!
Yes it may not be a true G color, which I’m okay with because I can’t tell the difference between G and H from my eyes. She showed me a GIA I S12 and I could see more yellow in it than mine. But yes at this point in time I just need to make sure I didn’t overpay! I think an appraisal is the smartest option at this point.

Thanks!
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
7,653
What a way to look at it! I so needed to hear that! Thank you so much. Truly!
Hi @Brittanyannbarth -

I really disagree with this. If you want something flawed, don't pay big money for it. You're buying a specifically aesthetic item; 'flaws' shouldn't be what you're looking for.

This is a badly cut stone, and it will effect its light performance. While I agree that the size is way better, I'd like to see it from side on, to see if the diamond is sitting way out of the setting. Being so much larger, I'm guessing it doesn't fit down *into* the setting, but is, rather, squeezed up above it.

EGL's gradings are normally about 2 higher than GIA. So you're probably looking at a diamond possibly in the I/SI2 range, were you going with GIA. You can not want 'the best diamond out there' - but a Good/Good grading for polish and symmetry from EGL is pretty luke-warm.

The table is massive. And the crown raise is low. So in profile, you've bought a very flat stone. It means it won't shoot fire like a more well cut stone, and there's some easily discernible tint there as well.

Look, this all sounds very Debbie-Downer-ish - and I apologize. If these issues are not something that bothers you, then stay with the stone you have. But if you want a little more bang for your buck, then I'd be looking for something with much better performance. And if your diamond is sitting way above the setting, pls re-think; it's a lost stone waiting to happen!

Good luck!
 

Brittanyann4207

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
29
Hi @Brittanyannbarth -

I really disagree with this. If you want something flawed, don't pay big money for it. You're buying a specifically aesthetic item; 'flaws' shouldn't be what you're looking for.

This is a badly cut stone, and it will effect its light performance. While I agree that the size is way better, I'd like to see it from side on, to see if the diamond is sitting way out of the setting. Being so much larger, I'm guessing it doesn't fit down *into* the setting, but is, rather, squeezed up above it.

EGL's gradings are normally about 2 higher than GIA. So you're probably looking at a diamond possibly in the I/SI2 range, were you going with GIA. You can not want 'the best diamond out there' - but a Good/Good grading for polish and symmetry from EGL is pretty luke-warm.

The table is massive. And the crown raise is low. So in profile, you've bought a very flat stone. It means it won't shoot fire like a more well cut stone, and there's some easily discernible tint there as well.

Look, this all sounds very Debbie-Downer-ish - and I apologize. If these issues are not something that bothers you, then stay with the stone you have. But if you want a little more bang for your buck, then I'd be looking for something with much better performance. And if your diamond is sitting way above the setting, pls re-think; it's a lost stone waiting to happen!

Good luck!

No, I appreciate all the feedback I can get it. Yes it is a little more flat than what I should’ve bought. I didn’t notice the flatness until it was set in my ring. However I don’t think she set it very high. But I added a photo to show you. Let me know what you think FF90EEBC-F989-4FC0-9013-36F4877D1755.jpeg 2CAA9E4B-FC2E-4256-98E4-D07D603AEDCF.jpeg
 

mommylawyer

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
235
I agree with @mrs-b that you should get the best bang for you buck, and I agree that you should get an independent appraisal. I think that goes without saying.

You want to know if you paid a fair price for your diamond. Fair value is what the market will bear, and there are some factors to consider.

You entered a retail establishment, viewed numerous diamonds, and selected your favorite. This experience has value, perhaps not quantifiable, but it is valuable nonetheless. Personally, I would be willing to pay at least five percent more in order to select my diamond in person.

Time is valuable, and this is quantifiable. For example, attorneys in private practice charge $200-$600 an hour for their time. How much time will you spend looking for another diamond online? What if it arrives and you don't like it as much as your original stone? How much time will you spend searching for another stone? Will your original diamond still be available?
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,479
Since you still have a return window, and you mentioned that you aren’t an expert, why not go to a hearts on fire retailer and compare super ideal cut to yours? I was in your predicament a few years ago and didn’t know what super ideal or even ideal cut diamonds looked like in real life. I was more concerned about overall balance when picking my stone—including budget. Bc I didn’t know better, every time I traded up, I would be happy initially. The novelty of a new diamond can be mesmerizing for a while. It wasn’t until maybe a year down the road that I would realize my dissatisfaction bc my stone was not on fire at all times! And I would upgrade again until I finally found one that fell
In the hca range and recommended ideal scope. The difference was subtle at first. I didn’t really know what to look for, after all. But after a few months, I realized that my new stone was always on—the sparkle and fire and shine didn’t leave me dissatisfied! And I finally understood! Now, I’m looking to upgrade for color and clarity, lol, but that’s another story. I have an I and si2 and since I love the cut, it’s been hard to find an upgrade and stay balanced with my jeweler. If only i had gone with whiteflash, the trade up would be so simple! Back to you, your first stone only cost you 1700 which is a great deal! Keep it if your jeweler can’t procure you an ideal cut stone and start over with Whiteflash. Trust me. I wish i had found PS before I had already overspent. The novelty will wear off and you might find that if you have doubts now, they will only multiply. You came to PS for a reason, so take the wisdom with you. Feel free to search all my posts—you will be able to see most of my upgrades. One of them had a big table like yours and I didn’t listen to the advice bc I didn’t know what i was looking for!
 
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