Diamond shopping: How to look at diamonds.

[Kaleigh]

Date: 7/22/2009 10:13:24 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/22/2009 9:42:39 PM
Author: vespergirl

Anyway, I just wanted to throw in my opinion as someone who doesn''t own a ''PS approved'' type stone. My point is just that if you can see a diamond in person, don''t immediately discount it if it doesn''t meet the ''PS requirements.''

You stone is PS approved :}
You made it so with your hard work and by taking a critical look at the diamond.
Not everyone can or wants to put that much work into it.

You post really goes to the heart of my post that started this thread, take a critical look at the diamond.
You can do that on your own as you did or you can get the information from a vendor who supplies it.
You took what you learned about taking a critical look at a diamond and applied it at a local store. That is way kewl :}

YES!!! That''s what it''s all about...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/22/2009 9:54:25 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/22/2009 9:21:42 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
These are diamonds which would have been gorgeous stones, but got knocked because of one minor detail or another. It makes me cringe, because as an independent appraiser I try and maintain a neutral and unbiased stance, whereas this forum tends to be considerably biased, often dismissing anything less than an ideal make as ''inferior'', when they are actually great looking stones. It''s an unbalanced situation.

Again it comes back to making safe choices, this forum is geared towards online buying where being selective is a good defense.
There are many different levels of advice on PS some is better than others but all of it is given with good intentions.
Has anyone that followed the advise of PS ever got an ugly diamond? No they haven''t.
Have some nice diamonds been passed over? yes but it is unavoidable.
Is it much better than it was in the past? Yes it is.
Give us some credit for evolving.
It will never be perfect.

yep, what RD don''t seen to understand is that a consumer can''t afford to have a dozen stones ship back and forth across the country for them to view.

 

[Judah Gutwein]

Karl,

I wrote previously:

"Pro-sumers here are an invaluable part of this forum. At the same time, not every jeweler is out to make a sale at the expense of their honesty and integrity. This type of assumption is unfair and inaccurate, especially when that premise accepted as fact, is sometimes extended to invalidate the experts Richard refers to (because of their perceived 'bias'), in favor of less knowledgeable and less experienced pro-sumers with no such perceived agenda and simply because they aren't 'selling something' other than their knowledge."

You responded:

"It is not really a matter of honesty and integrity.
For example someone could be the most honest person on earth and still move people in the wrong direction.
It is more a matter of presentation, training, personality and not being a shark."

I don't see how your response reflects my initial points.
My statements addressed those knowlegeable - experts - who are honest - and full of integrity and who sell diamonds and jewelry.

My point was to opine that these expert vendors should not be dismissed because of any perceived 'bias', since they value their reputation and integrity way more than they do an isolated sale.

Within this context, I don't think your isolation of the words 'honesty & integrity' to make your own point really deals with the initial points made by myself, Richard, Garry and others.

Nobody is doubting the fact that some salespeople do not 'present' as well as others - (and that) we all have different 'personalities' (salespeople and consumers).

However, I'd hardly call a trained, knowledgeable and honest salesperson (and they DO exist) a "shark".

 

[Lula]

I have to agree that often pro-sumer opinions on this forum are given more weight than the opinions of the experts, no doubt, as a previous poster pointed out, because the pro-sumers are perceived to be offering opinions without a sales agenda.

I guess if I were a vendor reading these posts, I would ask myself:

a) How did our business get such a bad reputation among many consumers? How can we as a group (or individuals) change this? What can we learn from these comments to improve what we do (rather than become defensive -- as RD said, we are all entitled to our perceptions of what is beautiful; and I'd second that and add, we are all entitled to our perceptions of what is good service).

b) When is the last time I shopped in a retail jewelry store? Maybe I should pay a visit to neighboring city or town (where they don't know me) and see how I am treated by the staff and what kind of information I am offered on the stones? Were my questions about cut/certification answered to my satisfaction or did the SA dodge my questions and/or steer me back to his/her pitch? Did I feel talked down to, intimidated, pressured?

I have a feeling that those vendors who choose b) will be in for an eye-opening experience.

Again, none of us came to PS to bash B&M stores, or jewelry experts/vendors; we developed our "cynical" attitudes from real experiences with real vendors.

 

[strmrdr]

Judah,
I''m on my way out the door but saw your post and am taking a few minutes to respond.

You framed the conversation as matter of honesty and integrity, I disagree that that it is the major issue.
"It is not really a matter of honesty and integrity."

One reason why is:
"For example someone could be the most honest person on earth and still move people in the wrong direction."

It is more a matter of sales peoples/vendors presentation, training, personality and not being a shark rather than just a matter of honesty and integrity.

"It is more a matter of presentation, training, personality and not being a shark."

I do agree with you and earlier made a clear distinction between:
"However, I''d hardly call a trained, knowledgeable and honest salesperson (and they DO exist)"..... and a "shark"
There are a lot of knowledgeable and honest salespersons right here at PS, sharks don''t last long here.

As far as experts being invalidated, many experts invalidate themselves but that is a huge can of worms that probably shouldn''t be opened but here goes....
Saying because I say so is the quickest way to do so here.
The most respected experts here take the time to explain things and back up what they say with quality information rather than argue with consumers.
An expert is judged by the information they provide and the way they provide it not by a title or how long they have been selling diamonds.
It is very true that some pro-sumers advise is seen as better than some experts.
The pro-sumer earned that and that particular expert didn''t.

I''m late see ya all tonight.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/23/2009 11:11:21 AM
Author: sarap333
I have to agree that often pro-sumer opinions on this forum are given more weight than the opinions of the experts, no doubt, as a previous poster pointed out, because the pro-sumers are perceived to be offering opinions without a sales agenda.

I guess if I were a vendor reading these posts, I would ask myself:

a) How did our business get such a bad reputation among many consumers? How can we as a group (or individuals) change this? What can we learn from these comments to improve what we do (rather than become defensive -- as RD said, we are all entitled to our perceptions of what is beautiful; and I''d second that and add, we are all entitled to our perceptions of what is good service).

b) When is the last time I shopped in a retail jewelry store? Maybe I should pay a visit to neighboring city or town (where they don''t know me) and see how I am treated by the staff and what kind of information I am offered on the stones? Were my questions about cut/certification answered to my satisfaction or did the SA dodge my questions and/or steer me back to his/her pitch? Did I feel talked down to, intimidated, pressured?

I have a feeling that those vendors who choose b) will be in for an eye-opening experience.

Again, none of us came to PS to bash B&M stores, or jewelry experts/vendors; we developed our ''cynical'' attitudes from real experiences with real vendors.

Well said sara.



strm, well said also.

 

[DiamondFlame]

Interesting exchange so far. What is obviously common among prosumers and vendors here is the PASSION for diamonds.

Quite a number of diamond newbies started out wanting a D IF and after learning more about diamonds, decided on eye clean SI of G or lower color. In other words, our comfort zone expanded. The same can be said with selecting beautiful diamonds. The more we know about them, the more time we spend scrutinising them, the wider will this comfort zone expand and allow us to indulge in our personal preferences and pick gorgeous diamonds outside 'safe parameters'.

Unfortunately, many consumers do not have the luxury of time nor access (to diamonds) and are thus highly unlikely to have a comfort zone that is comparable in size to one that RD had acquired after years spent grading and selecting diamonds. Some of us do not mind trusting a jeweler who is passionate about diamonds and let someone like RD or Mark (ERD) recommend an expert's 'pick'. Others feel more comfortable having the hard sciences e.g. ASET/IS/SARIN as 'proof' of a stone's superior performance. But the ends remain the same - we all want a beautiful stone. Just that the selection process differs because the size and nature of our comfort zones vary.

Go over to the SMTR forum. Some of the stones on display were not PS-selected/approved. YET they all look fabulous in pictures and elicit praises and approvals from lurkers and PS'ers alike. Goes to show that there are many equally valid ways of selecting beautiful stones.

Or perhaps it's more a question of art vs science? The artist' eye for aesthetics vs quantifiable, scientific rigors?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 7/23/2009 11:11:21 AM
Author: sarap333
I have to agree that often pro-sumer opinions on this forum are given more weight than the opinions of the experts, no doubt, as a previous poster pointed out, because the pro-sumers are perceived to be offering opinions without a sales agenda.


I guess if I were a vendor reading these posts, I would ask myself:


a) How did our business get such a bad reputation among many consumers? How can we as a group (or individuals) change this? What can we learn from these comments to improve what we do (rather than become defensive -- as RD said, we are all entitled to our perceptions of what is beautiful; and I''d second that and add, we are all entitled to our perceptions of what is good service).


b) When is the last time I shopped in a retail jewelry store? Maybe I should pay a visit to neighboring city or town (where they don''t know me) and see how I am treated by the staff and what kind of information I am offered on the stones? Were my questions about cut/certification answered to my satisfaction or did the SA dodge my questions and/or steer me back to his/her pitch? Did I feel talked down to, intimidated, pressured?


I have a feeling that those vendors who choose b) will be in for an eye-opening experience.


Again, none of us came to PS to bash B&M stores, or jewelry experts/vendors; we developed our ''cynical'' attitudes from real experiences with real vendors.

HI Sara,
Let''s start with the first two points you made:
First of all, speaking for myself, I am well aware of the problems shoppers face. Besides the years I spent selling to retail jewelers, I get to see one of the worst collection of horrible sellers in the world every day, on the way to work. It''s called 47th street.
I''d bet that people like Richard have tremendous experience with retail jewelers by virtue of the fact they need to appraise items purchased- and also have to explain some of the info provided by sellers that may have been inaccurate.


Having experienced the negative aspects firsthand, a seasoned professional knows why our industry may get a bad rap as a whole.
Like any other profession, there are good and bad- and indifferent.

I honestly believe that the professional posting here are very interested in educating consumers on what to be aware of so that they may avoid doing business with one of the bad sellers out there.
I know I am.


AS far as the part of your post which I put in bold.
I sincerely believe you do fall into that category, but regretfully, that''s not the case with some other people posting.

Dancing Fire- do you have any idea how many packages we ship a year?
Is your solution having everyone buy a D/IF cut the way YOU like it?
My point is that by eliminating diamonds thought not to be "safe" the advice then means that a shopper will, in many cases, spend more than they would have had to.

Dancing Fire- I''m here providing my expertise- once and for all, can you please tell me what you have against me?
Have I done something wrong to you- if so, I''d like the opportunity to address the issue.

Sara- I have been very encouraged by your posts. You ARE giving others the chance to discuss this without malice- but you don''t need to look very far to find others who are expressing malice towards professionals participating- and doing so needlessly.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 7/22/2009 9:51:48 PM
Author: glitterata


Many people here are crazy for super-ideal cuts the way traditional customers might have been told to prefer D IF. But for many consumers, super-ideals are overkill the way D IF would be. The difference between a super-ideal and a really nice but not super-ideal cut can be subtle or even invisible to the naked eye, just as it can be hard for many people to tell a D from an H or an IF from an SI1. That doesn't mean the differences don't exist. But they might not matter to the newbie asking for advice--he/she might prefer to get an almost-ideal for a lower price. Or he/she might actually prefer the way a different style of cutting looks, like David's 60/60s, or an OEC. Or they may prefer a more random, crushed-ice look over the perfect symmetry of hearts & arrows. Just like many people prefer the look of a warmer diamond over a D,E,F.

This entire post Gliterrata is so on target; I agree wholeheartedly.

Me, I'm a cut-o-phile; having a well-cut stone gives me the same mind-clean feeling that others get by having an IF stone. That's what pushes my buttons, but I realize that other people's buttons may be triggered by different drivers.

As a consumer education site, I feel the goal of Pricescope is to give consumers a way to understand enough about diamonds so they can understand how to make a smart purchase. I want them to understand that cut affects sparkle. I want them to understand that cut, color, clarity, and certain carat weight 'markers' affect the cost. I want them to understand that a brand guarantees consistency, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best available. (Sometimes it does, depending on the goal of the brand, but it's not a given). I want them to understand that a grading report is a professional expert opinion by an authority, but it's not a warranty or guarantee.

Armed with this type of knowledge, they can then decide for themselves which elements are important enough to pay more for and which aren't. Some people will be happy to sacrifice a bit of cut for a higher color; others will be happy to sacrifice a bit of clarity for carat weight.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 4:39:25 PM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 7/22/2009 9:51:48 PM
Author: glitterata


Many people here are crazy for super-ideal cuts the way traditional customers might have been told to prefer D IF. But for many consumers, super-ideals are overkill the way D IF would be. The difference between a super-ideal and a really nice but not super-ideal cut can be subtle or even invisible to the naked eye, just as it can be hard for many people to tell a D from an H or an IF from an SI1. That doesn''t mean the differences don''t exist. But they might not matter to the newbie asking for advice--he/she might prefer to get an almost-ideal for a lower price. Or he/she might actually prefer the way a different style of cutting looks, like David''s 60/60s, or an OEC. Or they may prefer a more random, crushed-ice look over the perfect symmetry of hearts & arrows. Just like many people prefer the look of a warmer diamond over a D,E,F.

This entire post Gliterrata is so on target; I agree wholeheartedly.

Me, I''m a cut-o-phile; having a well-cut stone gives me the same mind-clean feeling that others get by having an IF stone. That''s what pushes my buttons, but I realize that other people''s buttons may be triggered by different drivers.

As a consumer education site, I feel the goal of Pricescope is to give consumers a way to understand enough about diamonds so they can understand how to make a smart purchase. I want them to understand that cut affects sparkle. I want them to understand that cut, color, clarity, and certain carat weight ''markers'' affect the cost. I want them to understand that a brand guarantees consistency, but it doesn''t necessarily mean it''s the best available. (Sometimes it does, depending on the goal of the brand, but it''s not a given). I want them to understand that a grading report is a professional expert opinion by an authority, but it''s not a warranty or guarantee.

Armed with this type of knowledge, they can then decide for themselves which elements are important enough to pay more for and which aren''t. Some people will be happy to sacrifice a bit of cut for a higher color; others will be happy to sacrifice a bit of clarity for carat weight.

GREAT post Alj!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Can I use an Ideal-Scope pink work boot?
(avatater that is)

 

[Ellen]

Sure Gary.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 6:54:25 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Can I use an Ideal-Scope pink work boot?
(avatater that is)

Oh yes please!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/23/2009 2:40:45 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Dancing Fire- do you have any idea how many packages we ship a year?
Is your solution having everyone buy a D/IF cut the way YOU like it?
My point is that by eliminating diamonds thought not to be ''safe'' the advice then means that a shopper will, in many cases, spend more than they would have had to.

Dancing Fire- I''m here providing my expertise- once and for all, can you please tell me what you have against me?
Have I done something wrong to you- if so, I''d like the opportunity to address the issue.

RD
who pays for the return shipping ? customer or your Co.?

in many cases...what you paid is what you get,no free lunch.

why do say i have something against you? just b/c you like 60/60 stones and i don''t?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/23/2009 6:54:25 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Can I use an Ideal-Scope pink work boot?
(avatater that is)

only if you are wearing it!!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 7/23/2009 7:48:33 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/23/2009 2:40:45 PM

Author: Rockdiamond



Dancing Fire- do you have any idea how many packages we ship a year?

Is your solution having everyone buy a D/IF cut the way YOU like it?

My point is that by eliminating diamonds thought not to be ''safe'' the advice then means that a shopper will, in many cases, spend more than they would have had to.


Dancing Fire- I''m here providing my expertise- once and for all, can you please tell me what you have against me?

Have I done something wrong to you- if so, I''d like the opportunity to address the issue.

RD

who pays for the return shipping ? customer or your Co.?


in many cases...what you paid is what you get,no free lunch.

why do say i have something against you? just b/c you like 60/60 stones and i don''t?

We pay return shipping in almost every case DF.
I''m glad my perception was incorrect DF- after all, I''m DF too......

 

[John P]

Date: 7/22/2009 4:27:08 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Karl this vindicates Rich and my comments as the type of stores you are frequenting may well not be representative of 'diamond shops' in general. I am sure if you move to middle and better independent stores you will find a better diamond experiance?

Generally I agree with this Garry, if for no other reason than the grading reports these places use are often GIA, and if they carry other reports the staff are honest with shoppers about potential differences in grading standards. I also find that stores with meaningful guarantees like trade-up, lifetime manu warranty, etc. to be setup for a 'better experience' - but you may be surprised at the number of middle and even upper-tier stores where no one is remotely current on cut education.

I don't think most people intend to give bad or deceptive information. I have more faith in man than that. But I will back up what consumers here have relayed.

I was a consumer in the trenches in 2000. Like many, I began in mall chain stores, discount outlets, etc. Since I have a science background I was able to recognize inconsistent & inaccurate information. What surprised me was how frequently I encountered it. Remember that my consumer confusion conundrum is why I even know you...the conflicting info drove me to seek a resource where experts gave consistent and demonstratable answers to my questions.

Since coming to work in this business in 2004 I continue visiting stores to hear what's being said & represented to shoppers. I generally schedule an afternoon each month to do this, either locally or in a city I'm visiting. I check out what's in the case, what's printed on the literature and what the salespeople are saying. I don't do it to be sneaky, I do it to stay in touch. When asked if they can help me I have never had a bad reaction when I say "I work in the diamond business and was just taking in your store." In fact it has led to several friendships.

There are stores, perhaps some in every city, providing great service and advice. But for new consumers the most solid jeweler offering the best advice is only one voice in a choir of conflicting statements and information. It's frustrating.

So I am not trying to be negative but, with a weather eye on this, I must verify the bad apple factor in terms of information being passed along to consumers. A lack of education - an undeniably pervasive problem in our business - can cause an honest apple to give bad info. And no matter how you slice it, bad info is bad for consumers - and bad for our collective reputation - intentional or unintentional.

 

[Lula]

Garry -- John Pollard has thrown down the gauntlet with his avatar -- I''d love to see the Idealscope-shoe!

John, I think your post is spot-on; however, in the interest of science, the next time you pay your monthly visit to a retail store(s), don''t let on that you''re in the trade. I''d be interested to hear your perceptions of the sales staff when they assume you''re a customer rather than one of their own.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 7/23/2009 10:44:07 PM
Author: sarap333
Garry -- John Pollard has thrown down the gauntlet with his avatar -- I''d love to see the Idealscope-shoe!

John, I think your post is spot-on; however, in the interest of science, the next time you pay your monthly visit to a retail store(s), don''t let on that you''re in the trade. I''d be interested to hear your perceptions of the sales staff when they assume you''re a customer rather than one of their own.

The only thing i found very interesting at the Palace of VerySilly was the painting of Lousie the 16th (MarieA''s king hubby) which clearly showed he had a bright red heel. That was apparently a mark of the King. I think that would get me in trouble though - so I will stay common.

 

[John P]

Date: 7/23/2009 10:44:07 PM
Author: sarap333
Garry -- John Pollard has thrown down the gauntlet with his avatar -- I'd love to see the Idealscope-shoe!

John, I think your post is spot-on; however, in the interest of science, the next time you pay your monthly visit to a retail store(s), don't let on that you're in the trade. I'd be interested to hear your perceptions of the sales staff when they assume you're a customer rather than one of their own.

Oh I get to form those impressions Sara. Blending in, watching and listening is easy. Jewelers like browsers. Sometimes I'm not approached for some time, or left alone. I just meant to convey that I don't hide my status and have never had a bad reaction to it. I should also say that I'm a perfect guest. I never react-to bad information or correct anyone when I am a guest in their store. I'm not there for that. I'm there to stay in touch with what consumers in the mainstream are hearing, since those are my roots.

 

[Lorelei]

ROFL!!! LOVE the pinky splotchy combat boots Sir!!!

 

[Lula]

Oh, Garry, you''ll never be common!

And, John, thanks for clarifying; sounds like you''ve developed a great approach. You obviously value your "roots."

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/22/2009 9:54:25 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/22/2009 9:21:42 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
These are diamonds which would have been gorgeous stones, but got knocked because of one minor detail or another. It makes me cringe, because as an independent appraiser I try and maintain a neutral and unbiased stance, whereas this forum tends to be considerably biased, often dismissing anything less than an ideal make as 'inferior', when they are actually great looking stones. It's an unbalanced situation.

Again it comes back to making safe choices, this forum is geared towards online buying where being selective is a good defense.
There are many different levels of advice on PS some is better than others but all of it is given with good intentions.
Has anyone that followed the advise of PS ever got an ugly diamond? No they haven't.
Have some nice diamonds been passed over? yes but it is unavoidable.
Is it much better than it was in the past? Yes it is.
Give us some credit for evolving.
It will never be perfect.

Ditto this, and daily it is hard to strike a balance between trying to be impartial and needless nitpicking we sometimes see of perfectly good diamonds because it " isn't what I would buy..." or some minor thing that probably isn't even an issue in real life shown in an image - it bothers me when I see this hairsplitting and grandstanding especially from folk who might have only ever bought one diamond in their lives, also it makes me wonder if some forget that we are actually dealing with tiny tiny objects, not billboard size images. Us oldtimers have evolved and have been here long enough to see some of the traps it is possible for less experienced regular consumers to fall into, it won't ever be perfect but discussion is necessary often I think to try to keep things moving in the right direction.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/23/2009 9:53:46 PM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 7/22/2009 4:27:08 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Karl this vindicates Rich and my comments as the type of stores you are frequenting may well not be representative of ''diamond shops'' in general. I am sure if you move to middle and better independent stores you will find a better diamond experiance?

Generally I agree with this Garry, if for no other reason than the grading reports these places use are often GIA, and if they carry other reports the staff are honest with shoppers about potential differences in grading standards. I also find that stores with meaningful guarantees like trade-up, lifetime manu warranty, etc. to be setup for a ''better experience'' - but you may be surprised at the number of middle and even upper-tier stores where no one is remotely current on cut education.

I don''t think most people intend to give bad or deceptive information. I have more faith in man than that. But I will back up what consumers here have relayed.

I was a consumer in the trenches in 2000. Like many, I began in mall chain stores, discount outlets, etc. Since I have a science background I was able to recognize inconsistent & inaccurate information. What surprised me was how frequently I encountered it. Remember that my consumer confusion conundrum is why I even know you...the conflicting info drove me to seek a resource where experts gave consistent and demonstratable answers to my questions.

Since coming to work in this business in 2004 I continue visiting stores to hear what''s being said & represented to shoppers. I generally schedule an afternoon each month to do this, either locally or in a city I''m visiting. I check out what''s in the case, what''s printed on the literature and what the salespeople are saying. I don''t do it to be sneaky, I do it to stay in touch. When asked if they can help me I have never had a bad reaction when I say ''I work in the diamond business and was just taking in your store.'' In fact it has led to several friendships.

There are stores, perhaps some in every city, providing great service and advice. But for new consumers the most solid jeweler offering the best advice is only one voice in a choir of conflicting statements and information. It''s frustrating.

So I am not trying to be negative but, with a weather eye on this, I must verify the bad apple factor in terms of information being passed along to consumers. A lack of education - an undeniably pervasive problem in our business - can cause an honest apple to give bad info. And no matter how you slice it, bad info is bad for consumers - and bad for our collective reputation - intentional or unintentional.

Thank you for your perspective and input John. I know you know what we''re all talking about. It''s sad, and still way too prevalent....

I have often thought about making a specific thread where people can relay their negative jewelry experiences/things they''ve been told, that go from incorrect to pure fantasy. I am now motivated to do that. It might help the other experts truly understand where we''re coming from, and it will give consumers a place to vent. Win/win. Hopefully I''ll get it going in the next couple days.

And on an unrelated note, LOVE the boots! I''m just glad you''re wearing pants, I''d hate for you to show me up in the hairy leg department.

Gary, I echo sara, you could never be common! Especially with that accent.

 

[John P]

Date: 7/24/2009 9:19:30 AM
Author: Ellen

Thank you for your perspective and input John. I know you know what we're all talking about. It's sad, and still way too prevalent....

I have often thought about making a specific thread where people can relay their negative jewelry experiences/things they've been told, that go from incorrect to pure fantasy. I am now motivated to do that. It might help the other experts truly understand where we're coming from, and it will give consumers a place to vent. Win/win. Hopefully I'll get it going in the next couple days.

Making that purpose clear will be the challenge Ellen.

Professionals contributing and reading here are often lifers. Many started-in or currently run traditional stores, and did-so (do-so) with integrity. When the whole spectrum of "B&Ms" gets painted with the bungler brush it can be hurtful to the people who are proud of what they do. Moreover, those reading this forum aren't likely the bunglers...and the transient who worked at Orange Julius last week and now says outrageously wrong things as a diamond salesman is probably not a Pricescope devotee.

I'm with you on the goal. I do staff training in numerous B&M stores and have about a dozen "B&M experience" threads I read to the sales associates, but I'm careful to give a proper preamble: Focus on the facts reported (not perceived sensationalism or piling-on). They are shocked in most cases. It allows them a better understanding of what consumers coming into their stores may have been exposed to, and that firms their commitment to solid education & communication, which are trust-builders.

I know that's your objective too.

 

[John P]

Author: Lorelei
ROFL!!! LOVE the pinky splotchy combat boots Sir!!!

Hmm. I wonder what people reading this comment might think after the avatars go back to 'normal.'

Author: sarap333
And, John, thanks for clarifying; sounds like you've developed a great approach. You obviously value your 'roots.'

With hair like mine I protect all the roots I have Sara.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/24/2009 1:10:22 PM
Author: John Pollard

Author: Lorelei
ROFL!!! LOVE the pinky splotchy combat boots Sir!!!

Hmm. I wonder what people reading this comment might think after the avatars go back to ''normal.''

Author: sarap333
And, John, thanks for clarifying; sounds like you''ve developed a great approach. You obviously value your ''roots.''

With hair like mine I protect all the roots I have Sara.

LOL! Looks like you have the old spit shine routine down to a fine art also Sir....

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/24/2009 1:10:15 PM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 7/24/2009 9:19:30 AM
Author: Ellen

Thank you for your perspective and input John. I know you know what we're all talking about. It's sad, and still way too prevalent....

I have often thought about making a specific thread where people can relay their negative jewelry experiences/things they've been told, that go from incorrect to pure fantasy. I am now motivated to do that. It might help the other experts truly understand where we're coming from, and it will give consumers a place to vent. Win/win. Hopefully I'll get it going in the next couple days.

Making that purpose clear will be the challenge Ellen.

Professionals contributing and reading here are often lifers. Many started-in or currently run traditional stores, and did-so (do-so) with integrity. When the whole spectrum of 'B&Ms' gets painted with the bungler brush it can be hurtful to the people who are proud of what they do. Moreover, those reading this forum aren't likely the bunglers...and the transient who worked at Orange Julius last week and now says outrageously wrong things as a diamond salesman is probably not a Pricescope devotee.

I'm with you on the goal. I do staff training in numerous B&M stores and have about a dozen 'B&M experience' threads I read to the sales associates, but I'm careful to give a proper preamble: Focus on the facts reported (not perceived sensationalism or piling-on). They are shocked in most cases. It allows them a better understanding of what consumers coming into their stores may have been exposed to, and that firms their commitment to solid education & communication, which are trust-builders.

I know that's your objective too.

It absolutely is John. I totally understand what you're saying, and I have already begun taking my thoughts to paper, on the direction I would like the thread to take and how to go about that. I do not want it to be a bashfest, just a fair, honest report on each individuals experience. I will be sure to make that clear. And I laughed at the "Orange Julius" reference, only because it's sad but true. In that respect, I was also thinking that the more info we have, the better. i.e. What type of store, (upscale, mid level, mall, etc.) how old was the SA, how long had they been in business, how old was the poster, how long ago was this, etc.. I think the more detailed info the better.


At any rate, I will do my best to make this a valuable contribution. That's why it may take me a few days.