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Diamond possible 60/60 or should I have it re-cut

GlitzGirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Messages
20
Hello,

I purchased a GIA triple X (report attached) assuming I was getting a beautiful diamond.
I don't know much about diamonds so I couldn't even tell you if it sparkles as it should or not.
It does look bright.

I recently used the HCA tool and discovered that my diamond's score was 4.2!
LIght Return: Good
Fire: Good
Scintillation: Good
Spread: Very Good
HCA Score Good - only if price is your main criterion.
Looks like size - AVERAGE

I'm disappointed because there is no way that I can return it or exchange it now.

I've been reading about 60/60 (steep/deep) and would like to know if its possible that my diamond is one of these.
On one thread (I can't recall which) my diamond's specs fell into the specs that were listed as a good 60/60 and then on another thread my diamonds stats were just out a smidge.

Can anyone tell me from the below GIA report if my stone may be a 60/60.
If it's a possibility that it is a 60/60, I will buy an ASSET scope and learn how to use it.

If it's not a possibility then, I may start thinking about finding someone who can re-cut it for me here in Vancouver which is kind of a scary thought.

Thanks for your help!
 

Attachments

mission1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
139
A 60/60 diamond means a 60% table with 60% depth - so I think your diamond is a bit far out to be a 60/60. Even if it were a 60/60 it wouldn't particularly help you; the theory of a 60/60 was that it would provide a combination of crown and pavillion angle that would give a nice stone - but the reality is that there are still lots of combinations within the 60/60 range, so it doesn't guarantee a nice stone.

The angles on yours are a bit steep/deep as you note, but would you've been happy with it had you not started looking at the HCA?

You could get it recut, but you'd lose carat weight, and have the hassle and the cost of getting it recut. If you're really unhappy with it, another option might be to find a jeweller that would accept it as a trade-in on another stone.
 
Last edited:

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,597
No, yours is not what we would consider a 60/60. Unfortunately it just isn't in the ideal ranges of what we would recommend. You could seek a recut, but that's always risky. Do you like it? Did you like it before you started looking at the HCA numbers?
 

GlitzGirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Messages
20
Thank you both for your quick replies.

Yes, I did love it for a few weeks before I plunked the numbers into the HCA.

I wish I would have known about this tool before I purchased it. I just assumed that GIA XXX was going to be fool proof.

I will need to find a reason to fall in love with it again as it is a stone that I picked out as opposed to my significant other since it was an upgrade.

I don't care so much about loosing weight on a re-cut since it is is actually considered on the larger side in my social circle. However, if it is risky then not worth it.

I'm not sure what type of re-sale value it will have at this point. I'm thinking because it comes with a GIA and is XXX this will help on re-sale to a Jeweler...but wondering, then, what it is actually worth.

Also, the issue is I'm not even sure what it is I ended paying for it. I was allergic to my initial ring that was white gold and the jeweler took it back...wedding bands and all. I had a custom made platinum ring and bands made and upgraded to this diamond. So in the end with the return and all the additional charges I don't have any idea what I actually paid for the stone itself!

I thought I was doing everything right...if only I'd have found the HCA tool before.

Can any of you give me an indication of what it is worth. I live in Canada. I can do the rate conversion. Also, would I sell it at a 25% or 50% discount. I mean what is typical?

Again, thanks so much for help with this. It's a tough decision.
 

headlight

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
1,807
I have now had 3 diamonds recut and I would say that if you are not happy with it, it would be worth looking into a recut. You have some size to work with, so you might not lose too much weight. And the increase in performance would make up for it.
PS is a pandora's box. As @lovedogs said, did you love it before you came to PS?
Can you post some photos or a video of your diamond?
 
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headlight

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
1,807
I just saw your post that came in when I was posting. It sounds like you haven't had the stone that long... when did you get this new ring? So you are saying that on your receipt there is nothing that says what they were charging you for the diamond?
Please post photos so we can see how the diamond looks. Also, it would be helpful for us to see what your new mounting looks like, if a different size stone can be set into it.
 

lydial

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
415
I lived with a diamond in my e-ring that I was not in love with for about 8 years before upgrading by selling my stone and buying a super ideal (using the service provided by high performance diamonds). I was able to get about 70% of what I originally paid back to apply to my new diamond. Someday you may want to trade it in and buy a new diamond if you really really need an ideal stone. Another "fix" may be to buy a "starter" super ideal (eg: https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10582, and they are still offering a FREE SETTING!) which some people do, so they can have one that they can wear and play with and ogle, even if < 0.5 ct - maybe in a solitaire necklace??? Even if you can not replace your engagement solitaire - it may scratch the itch to own an ideal diamond. I personally wear super perfect and super flawed diamonds together and enjoy them all!
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,597
Thank you both for your quick replies.

Yes, I did love it for a few weeks before I plunked the numbers into the HCA.

I wish I would have known about this tool before I purchased it. I just assumed that GIA XXX was going to be fool proof.

I will need to find a reason to fall in love with it again as it is a stone that I picked out as opposed to my significant other since it was an upgrade.

I don't care so much about loosing weight on a re-cut since it is is actually considered on the larger side in my social circle. However, if it is risky then not worth it.

I'm not sure what type of re-sale value it will have at this point. I'm thinking because it comes with a GIA and is XXX this will help on re-sale to a Jeweler...but wondering, then, what it is actually worth.

Also, the issue is I'm not even sure what it is I ended paying for it. I was allergic to my initial ring that was white gold and the jeweler took it back...wedding bands and all. I had a custom made platinum ring and bands made and upgraded to this diamond. So in the end with the return and all the additional charges I don't have any idea what I actually paid for the stone itself!

I thought I was doing everything right...if only I'd have found the HCA tool before.

Can any of you give me an indication of what it is worth. I live in Canada. I can do the rate conversion. Also, would I sell it at a 25% or 50% discount. I mean what is typical?

Again, thanks so much for help with this. It's a tough decision.
If you've only had it for a few weeks there should be a way to exchange it (at least most jewelers are amenable to this). I wouldn't jump to selling, but if you do, unfortunately you likely won't get close to what you paid. I would use the PS search tool to find a diamond with similar specs and search that way for prices (and then subtract at least 20% becuase you are selling it to a private party vs being a retail store).
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
14,820
I strongly suggest you start with sending the diamond to a savvy appraiser like Dave Atlas or Neil Beatty.
I think there is a fair chance the diamond will be a little hazy and no matter how well cut it ends up (the pavilion only needs a few points taken off to about 40.9 degrees) it may never be a great ball of fire.
Those guys can also supervise the removal from setting, repolishing pavilion only and resetting.
 

GlitzGirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Messages
20
Thanks for all of your replies.

I shouldn't have said that I've only had the ring for a few weeks. I've had the it since September. The jeweller didn't have to take my three inital white gold rings back, but I was so happy that he did. I was very allergic and even had red peeling blisters.

I checked the receipt and the new diamond is not itemized. I think this is because we came to an agreement about a price.

I have attached two pic.

Thanks again for helping me think through this. OMG sorry for the giant hand pics! 722577 721553
 

GlitzGirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Messages
20
Thanks Gary. Yes, I was also wondering about haze because of the strong blue flourescence but I really grilled the Jeweller and he assured me there was none. I felt he was being truthful. Its a long time family run local business so I would hope he was being truthful.

I assumed that the GIA XXX was going to be the bomb in a good way...
not a bad one. :)

I may look Dave Atlas and/or Neil Beatty up.
 

diamondsR4eVR

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
276
The stone looks pretty on your hand. I’m NO expert. I just love diamonds! I like your other rings too. Sadly, if you are feeling like this now I doubt thats going to change. Great advice above. GL on whatever you decide. Your story sounds similar to mine. I traded in a diamond too. I also thought the XXX was king. Boy has PS taught me a lot! Lol Sometimes I have to step away from PS. My new stone is not ideal at all, but I do love it. I’m also open to an upgrade in the future. My ring also has SF. It’s not hazy tho but certain lighting does activate that flouroessence as it should. As others said in my posts, haziness should be noticeable to the naked eye. If you see haze, you would see it. I don’t think there’d be any denying it.
 

mission1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
139
It's a shame if you've only started questioning after doing more research, but I think the problem is that once the doubt creeps in, it's hard to stop questioning it rather than enjoying it. As @Garry H (Cut Nut) suggests, it might be worth getting it appraised by someone recommended on here, so that you can either stop worrying or proactively progress recut or replacement.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,026
This is a textbook example of how HCA and these discussions can create doubt in a person’s mind- when the outcome is 100% as uncertain as where we are right now.
Does every 4.2 HCA look “worse “ compared to a Super Ideal to every observer? No way.
Some people don’t love the look of H&A.
And of course, members are posting in an attempt to help. Based on the knowledge gained here. But there’s other outlooks and we just can’t be sure GlitzGirl would love what any one of us would in the same way.
If the stone was hazy, one wouldn’t need an expert to figure it out. A person would have noticed it pretty quickly if they have the vision to be able to distinguish small differences in diamond cut.
My suggestion would be to take a step back. You’ve found the HCA and these discussions. Before you go shipping the diamond away, have a look at some other diamonds. See what your eye prefers.
Maybe at that point you’d want to sell or recut. But maybe not.
 

diamondsR4eVR

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
276
This is a textbook example of how HCA and these discussions can create doubt in a person’s mind- when the outcome is 100% as uncertain as where we are right now.
Does every 4.2 HCA look “worse “ compared to a Super Ideal to every observer? No way.
Some people don’t love the look of H&A.
And of course, members are posting in an attempt to help. Based on the knowledge gained here. But there’s other outlooks and we just can’t be sure GlitzGirl would love what any one of us would in the same way.
If the stone was hazy, one wouldn’t need an expert to figure it out. A person would have noticed it pretty quickly if they have the vision to be able to distinguish small differences in diamond cut.
My suggestion would be to take a step back. You’ve found the HCA and these discussions. Before you go shipping the diamond away, have a look at some other diamonds. See what your eye prefers.
Maybe at that point you’d want to sell or recut. But maybe not.
Well said.

I love my sparkly stone, but sometimes overload on information can make a novice diamond lover like myself super insecure about their purchase.
That’s why sometimes I take a step back from PS and remind myself that my eyes work great still. Lol They judge what I see and not obsess over my pavilion and crown ...and large table etc.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
 

mission1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
139
@Rockdiamond - I agree, but I’ve re-read the replies; nobody is slating the diamond and there are several responses asking if the OP was happy with the diamond before finding the HCA. The suggestions to get someone to appraise it really reflect the fact that once doubt sets in, most people want expert reassurance!
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,026
Look- I'm not trying to take any bread off Neil or Dave's plates....
But think about the suggestion: someone decides, based on discussions here ( and possibly other factors) that they don't love their diamond.
What is the best outcome if they send it to an appraiser?
Will the appraiser be able to get them to like it, if he ( or she ) does?
Or the appraiser says it's a bad stone- now what?

If the OP goes and looks at other diamonds, she may find out that she loves the one she has just as much as a Super Ideal.
Or she can find out that she loves the SI better and wants to change.
 

mission1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
139
Must admit that I hadn’t interpreted (realised) that the appraisal suggestions were directed at a couple of individuals... I really meant a local trusted recommendation - put perhaps that’s not likely/realistic.
 

diamondsR4eVR

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
276
I also thought even if your stone scored outside the recommended parameters of HCA that did not necessarily mean it was a dud.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,026
PS- if it makes you feel any better...
About 10 years back, I was presented with a unique opportunity- my buddy had cut a 6ct K/SI2, which was 60/60, AND eye clean.
It also faced up white.
It also scored over 5 on HCA.
DW adored that stone beyond words ( but she had me leave it on the site. This way, when we ultimately sold it she could hold that over my head till eternity- we'll never find another at that price)
It was an amazing diamond. The point is, HCA is not always relevant to the discussion.
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,437
Your rings look great. I think @Garry H (Cut Nut) comments were related to cloud as grade setting inclusion.

If I was in your shoes and I wanted closure, give your diamond a very thorough clean, or have it cleaned by your jeweller. Don't touch it and take it to compare to a super ideal vendor, Hearts on fire are usually the most accessible.

If you do not notice a significant difference in performance (in a variety of lighting environments) and you are happy then I would forget all about it. This is free and reasonably easy to do.

If you do notice a difference, enough that you want to do something about it, then I would take it to an appriaser to comment about the transparency of the stone with its clarity and fluorescence. If they are happy with it that is clear, then your stone has numbers which are favourable for recutting without much diameter or weight loss, but best to do due diligence to see if it is actually worth while going through it all.

All the best.
 

GlitzGirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Messages
20
Thank you everyone.

All of your input is helping me to gain perspective.

I noticed that on my GIA report it reads 'Additional clouds not shown' and that there is a strong blue florescence (I know this can be a good thing for a 'J').

The diamond does not look like there is any haze or cloudiness. Due to the prong setting I can see right through the sides of it and it looks clear to the naked eye anyhow.

I do clean it daily with hot water and Dawn dish detergent and a soft toothbrush. Soaking it once a week. So I know it is clean. Yes it does tend to sparkle more after cleaned.

PLAN A is to clean the heck out of it and then compare it to other very well cut stones to see if the sparkle difference is enough for me to go to PLAN B (sell, trade, or re-cut).

I live near Vancouver. I used the Hearts On Fire store locator tool and a jewel is a 1/2 hours drive.

Question:
If I feel the need for PLAN B, and I go for a re-cut, I understand the diamond would only lose a bit of weight, can I then still use the same head/prongs that are in my current setting (which was custom made for the 1.71 diamond)?

Alternatively, if I end up selling or trading, I will be purchasing a new diamond that will likely be much smaller (1.25 - 1.5). Will a significantly smaller diamond require an entirely new head?

Pics of my setting are in a previous reply above.

Again your thoughts and expertise are greatly appreciated.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,026
Hi Glitz,
I'll offer a viewpoint- which is not the most common one here....
I would not attempt a recut.
If the outcome is that you decide to change diamonds, it's just much safer, easier, and likely less costly to attempt to trade the one you have with a vendor.
Again, others may feel differently.
For one thing, a re-cut to "super ideal" ain't cheap, in terms of labor. Your stone could move down to K color.

You bring up another very important point, oft-overlooked- and that is size.
You would indeed need a new head if you went from 1 3/4 down to 1 1/4
But it also points out something very very important to many diamond buyers- even if they can see the subtle differences in cut.
Size.
It's a very important aspect to so many buyers.
So if we're comparing a 7.3mm "regular " well cut stone ( yours) to a similarly priced 6.8mm "Super Ideal" the visual size difference is far more obvious than the differences in cut.
 

GlitzGirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Messages
20
I will keep that in mind Rockdiamond while I'm comparing my stones.

When I go to compare my diamond with others that are of a much better cut, I will make certain to also compare it to, not only to similar sized diamonds, but also to some that are smaller 1.25 and 1.5

Realistically that is all I will be able to afford if I do decide to off-load my diamond and make the jump to a better cut.
 

headlight

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
1,807
@GlitzGirl could you post a photo of the side view?

@Rockdiamond I apologize if I came across too "pro" recut. I just think people shouldn't necessarily be afraid of it outright. There are many steps involved, as you know, that one goes through before they can even make the final decision. So, obviously, just because one may pursue it, doesn't mean they will follow through on it.

I likewise think a trade-in is also another option to be pursued when one is in a position as OP presented herself here.

I have been through 2 recut experiences and 3 trade-in experiences (I know, I know!) so I can only offer my experiences.

I agree with @diamondsR4eVR in that it looks very pretty on OP's hand. Also, it's always hard to tell from snapshots, but it honestly doesn't look bad to me at all, certainly not the way OP is now perceiving it to be.

PS is so great for those shopping for a diamond but, sadly, I think it creates so much strife for those who come here that have already purchased their stone that they most likely loved until they got info here and then are very, very unhappy... and I just think this is a real shame.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,026
I apologize if I came across too "pro" recut. I just think people shouldn't necessarily be afraid of it outright.
We agree, 100%!
There are definitely cases where re-cut makes all the sense in the world, and this forum is a great place to sus things like that out!
I apologize to you @headlight if it seemed like I was criticizing you:)
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,437
A steep crown/pavilion on paper with a 58 percent table should be reasonably straight forward recut compared to a flat top diamond in terms of diameter (a gross over generalisation as each diamond will have to be addressed case by case basis) but lower the crown and have a smaller table or reduce the pavilion angle, while losing only a little diameter. If you start with a 32 crown then it'll be much harder to steepen the crown angle without eating significantly at size.
 

GlitzGirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Messages
20
Here is the side view of my ring. Sorry I WAS touching it all day so there is probably fibres and oil on it. I took this in florescent office lighting with no windows. It is a 'J'against a buff colored wall.

I'd love to know if you see any cloudiness or haze? Thanks so much! side view of ring.jpg
 
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